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#1530609 - 07/13/09 12:56 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: tomcat27]
72customdeluxe Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 131
Loc: texas
 Originally Posted By: tomcat27
now, there certainly are some bad engines!
In fact, Amsoil issues a TSB recommending short OCI's on certain "sludge" engines. on my DC 2.7 Amsoil recommends 3k miles! also on the dodge 3.9, 5.2, 5.9 and 5k on certain vw, toy, lexus, saab models

Do you know if they have these on their website? I'd imagine my 350 is considered a sludger with all the fuel dilution.
_________________________
'72 Cheyenne Super C10 stepside, 350/350 drivetrain, a/c,p/s,p/b, huggar orange

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#1530646 - 07/13/09 01:40 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: 72customdeluxe]
FastSUV Offline


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1081
Loc: oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: 72customdeluxe
 Originally Posted By: tomcat27
now, there certainly are some bad engines!
In fact, Amsoil issues a TSB recommending short OCI's on certain "sludge" engines. on my DC 2.7 Amsoil recommends 3k miles! also on the dodge 3.9, 5.2, 5.9 and 5k on certain vw, toy, lexus, saab models

Do you know if they have these on their website? I'd imagine my 350 is considered a sludger with all the fuel dilution.


nah 350 is one of the most reliable engines ever made as long as it can breathe; be sure PCV is good...and also, not all 350's were flat tappet so that is subjective in my choice of test motor, but either way, whether is was a '96 vortec or a '85 flat tappet design I just would want to use the same motor to test all the oils.

It could be a Nissan Z24 4cyl...doesn't matter, just a proven engine without a "known" reputation for anything extra like being prone to "cooking" its oil or sludge.
_________________________
'01 Jeep GC 4.0L - 110k (current setup is 6k OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)
'98 Jeep 5.9 Limited - 183k (current setup is 5k/or 1yr OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)

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#1530671 - 07/13/09 02:16 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
JeepZJ4.0 Offline


Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 1397
Loc: Katy, Texas
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV

Wow I did not know the "Magnum" engines were sludge prone...I knew all the newer 2.7, 3.7, & 4.7 were marked as sludge monsters, but I did not know the older push rod engines were? Are you sure?

The 2.7L yes, proven. The 3.7L and 4.7L... interesting. I wouldn't post that on JU. You know that Carlito Benito guy would certainly give you a hard time....


Edited by JeepZJ4.0 (07/13/09 02:17 PM)
_________________________
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 5.7L
2014 Honda Accord Sport CVT 2.4L

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#1530726 - 07/13/09 03:12 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: JeepZJ4.0]
FastSUV Offline


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1081
Loc: oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: JeepZJ4.0
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV

Wow I did not know the "Magnum" engines were sludge prone...I knew all the newer 2.7, 3.7, & 4.7 were marked as sludge monsters, but I did not know the older push rod engines were? Are you sure?

The 2.7L yes, proven. The 3.7L and 4.7L... interesting. I wouldn't post that on JU. You know that Carlito Benito guy would certainly give you a hard time....


If I recall, he is from "Texas" too is he not...hmmm

Anyway, it is documented the 4.7 is a sludger and that is why they came out with the half-hearted TSB fix that really does not fix the issue.

It is more seen in 4.7's that do FST's and are where it is colder outside though. I have heard there is a hack that can be done with a Chevy PCV that resolves the problem, but again, if someone has a 4.7 and uses 5w30 and chnages it by 3-4k then most likely they would be okay unless conditions above. It was apoor engine design to cause that problem.
_________________________
'01 Jeep GC 4.0L - 110k (current setup is 6k OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)
'98 Jeep 5.9 Limited - 183k (current setup is 5k/or 1yr OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)

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#1530744 - 07/13/09 03:32 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 28456
Loc: NY
A bad oil is the oil that is in the crank when the engine blows. Doesn't matter how long its been in the crank, how many miles, or how low on the stick it is. It's the fact that it was the last oil that entered the engine, that's what makes it a bad oil.
_________________________
God Bless Our Troops


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#1530752 - 07/13/09 03:38 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
JeepZJ4.0 Offline


Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 1397
Loc: Katy, Texas
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV

If I recall, he is from "Texas" too is he not...hmmm

Anyway, it is documented the 4.7 is a sludger and that is why they came out with the half-hearted TSB fix that really does not fix the issue.

It is more seen in 4.7's that do FST's and are where it is colder outside though. I have heard there is a hack that can be done with a Chevy PCV that resolves the problem, but again, if someone has a 4.7 and uses 5w30 and chnages it by 3-4k then most likely they would be okay unless conditions above. It was apoor engine design to cause that problem.




This is not good to know. Time for a round of ARX in the WJ when it comes back. My brother changed the oil in it and said it's either burning a lot of oil or leaking... now I have to consider another option... GREAT. Hopefully the Pennzoil HM I had him use this time will clear up any issues with the Mobil Clean 5000 that was previously used. Maybe I'll have to run a few short OCIs with PP.
_________________________
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 5.7L
2014 Honda Accord Sport CVT 2.4L

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#1530881 - 07/13/09 05:47 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: JeepZJ4.0]
Buick92 Offline


Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 623
Loc: Pullman Wa
I've come to the conclusion that any SM dino is a good oil, supertech or Pennzoil I don't think that really matters as long as it's the correct viscosity and the correct oil change interval.

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#1530896 - 07/13/09 06:02 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: Buick92]
FastSUV Offline


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1081
Loc: oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: Buick92
I've come to the conclusion that any SM dino is a good oil, supertech or Pennzoil I don't think that really matters as long as it's the correct viscosity and the correct oil change interval.



O'Reilly dino house oil is on sale for 1.89 per qt right now if you have those there
_________________________
'01 Jeep GC 4.0L - 110k (current setup is 6k OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)
'98 Jeep 5.9 Limited - 183k (current setup is 5k/or 1yr OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)

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#1530898 - 07/13/09 06:05 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: JeepZJ4.0]
FastSUV Offline


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1081
Loc: oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: JeepZJ4.0
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV

If I recall, he is from "Texas" too is he not...hmmm

Anyway, it is documented the 4.7 is a sludger and that is why they came out with the half-hearted TSB fix that really does not fix the issue.

It is more seen in 4.7's that do FST's and are where it is colder outside though. I have heard there is a hack that can be done with a Chevy PCV that resolves the problem, but again, if someone has a 4.7 and uses 5w30 and chnages it by 3-4k then most likely they would be okay unless conditions above. It was apoor engine design to cause that problem.




This is not good to know. Time for a round of ARX in the WJ when it comes back. My brother changed the oil in it and said it's either burning a lot of oil or leaking... now I have to consider another option... GREAT. Hopefully the Pennzoil HM I had him use this time will clear up any issues with the Mobil Clean 5000 that was previously used. Maybe I'll have to run a few short OCIs with PP.


How many miles or on it??? I can tell you that a buddy of mine with a 3-car fleet used to use MC5000 but he said it burns off like mad compared to other oils he has tried just an FYI. I am sure that is not the case in all cars.

If it was me I'd probably just do a round of Pennzoil HM & substitute in 1 qt of Rislone & run it 3k and then change it. Then consider switching to Pennzoil HM or one of the other HM oils permanently...
_________________________
'01 Jeep GC 4.0L - 110k (current setup is 6k OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)
'98 Jeep 5.9 Limited - 183k (current setup is 5k/or 1yr OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)

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#1530928 - 07/13/09 06:29 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10139
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
As mentioned, one would be hard pressed to find a "bad oil" on any retail shelf in N. America. But there are plenty of inappropriate applications.

A fav' oil on this forum is PP but it has a high NOACK of 12.5%-14% depending on the grade. In my book that would disqualify it from being considered a good oil based on that one criterion alone. But many UOA have shown it to be a good oil in actual usage.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#1530939 - 07/13/09 06:44 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
JeepZJ4.0 Offline


Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 1397
Loc: Katy, Texas
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV

How many miles or on it??? I can tell you that a buddy of mine with a 3-car fleet used to use MC5000 but he said it burns off like mad compared to other oils he has tried just an FYI. I am sure that is not the case in all cars.

If it was me I'd probably just do a round of Pennzoil HM & substitute in 1 qt of Rislone & run it 3k and then change it. Then consider switching to Pennzoil HM or one of the other HM oils permanently...


127K. [sarcasm]This is fantastic news.[/sarcasm] My brother is going to visit my sister, the driver of the WJ at the end of the month. I will try the Rislone thing once it comes back again. I'm confident that the Pennzoil will help with the burning. I'm now 100% done with Mobil products. I might go to Rotella T Syn 5w40 or even GC 0w30. It's driven by a college girl who could care less about cars.

Thanks for your help!
_________________________
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 5.7L
2014 Honda Accord Sport CVT 2.4L

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#1530998 - 07/13/09 07:45 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
72customdeluxe Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 131
Loc: texas
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV
 Originally Posted By: 72customdeluxe
 Originally Posted By: tomcat27
now, there certainly are some bad engines!
In fact, Amsoil issues a TSB recommending short OCI's on certain "sludge" engines. on my DC 2.7 Amsoil recommends 3k miles! also on the dodge 3.9, 5.2, 5.9 and 5k on certain vw, toy, lexus, saab models

Do you know if they have these on their website? I'd imagine my 350 is considered a sludger with all the fuel dilution.


nah 350 is one of the most reliable engines ever made as long as it can breathe; be sure PCV is good...and also, not all 350's were flat tappet so that is subjective in my choice of test motor, but either way, whether is was a '96 vortec or a '85 flat tappet design I just would want to use the same motor to test all the oils.

It could be a Nissan Z24 4cyl...doesn't matter, just a proven engine without a "known" reputation for anything extra like being prone to "cooking" its oil or sludge.

Yes the 350 is reliable, but my problem right now is sludge. Specifically a coked up #8 ring pack. It's clearing up and raising in compression with m1 hm and LOTS of on-ramp abuse everyday :)
_________________________
'72 Cheyenne Super C10 stepside, 350/350 drivetrain, a/c,p/s,p/b, huggar orange

Top
#1531164 - 07/13/09 09:44 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: 72customdeluxe]
FastSUV Offline


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1081
Loc: oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: 72customdeluxe
 Originally Posted By: FastSUV
 Originally Posted By: 72customdeluxe
 Originally Posted By: tomcat27
now, there certainly are some bad engines!
In fact, Amsoil issues a TSB recommending short OCI's on certain "sludge" engines. on my DC 2.7 Amsoil recommends 3k miles! also on the dodge 3.9, 5.2, 5.9 and 5k on certain vw, toy, lexus, saab models

Do you know if they have these on their website? I'd imagine my 350 is considered a sludger with all the fuel dilution.


nah 350 is one of the most reliable engines ever made as long as it can breathe; be sure PCV is good...and also, not all 350's were flat tappet so that is subjective in my choice of test motor, but either way, whether is was a '96 vortec or a '85 flat tappet design I just would want to use the same motor to test all the oils.

It could be a Nissan Z24 4cyl...doesn't matter, just a proven engine without a "known" reputation for anything extra like being prone to "cooking" its oil or sludge.

Yes the 350 is reliable, but my problem right now is sludge. Specifically a coked up #8 ring pack. It's clearing up and raising in compression with m1 hm and LOTS of on-ramp abuse everyday :)


Marvel mystery oil is supposed to be good at cleaning rings...but even more so, SeaFoam in the oil might do the trick but I am always leary of using anything that is a thin solvent stuff in my oil...I use SeaFoam to clean carbon off my pistons & valves through the intake, but MMO (marvel mystery oil) might be the best choice if you have gummed up rings. I use rislone to clean varnish & stuff but not sure if it is powerful enough for rings or not??? I guess if it can free sticky lifters then it might work but I vote MMO used per the insstructions on the bottle in the crankcase.


Edited by FastSUV (07/13/09 09:45 PM)
_________________________
'01 Jeep GC 4.0L - 110k (current setup is 6k OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)
'98 Jeep 5.9 Limited - 183k (current setup is 5k/or 1yr OCI w/ 10w30 Rotella T5)

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#1531181 - 07/13/09 10:01 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
72customdeluxe Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 131
Loc: texas
I put a pint of mmo in there with the oil change I'll add another pint at 1500 or so miles It will skew the results of the mobil alone for me, but i'd rather just have better results than wonder what product made the most change. I sea-foamed the intake a couple months ago, not much smoke though. Working hard without o/d keeps it somewhat clean I guess. I added just 6 oz of sea foam to a previous oil change and it got black quick. I was scared of stuff going into my oil pickup though so I won't use it in the oil anymore.
_________________________
'72 Cheyenne Super C10 stepside, 350/350 drivetrain, a/c,p/s,p/b, huggar orange

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#1531290 - 07/13/09 11:19 PM Re: Is their such thing as a bad oil??? [Re: FastSUV]
EMPIRE Offline


Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 109
Loc: AZ
a good oil doesnt let metal parts touch. a good oil has chemistry that stays constant for a long time.

bad oil = 1/good oil

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