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#1233741 - 09/11/08 12:34 AM ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3
kukaepe Offline


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Las Vegas, NV, USA
My '07 MINI Cooper S (direct injected, turbo gas 1.6l) calls for ACEA A3/B3 Synthetic oil at intervals when the ECU recommends an oil change. First time the ECU called for an oil change was at approximately 18K miles. My habit has been to change the oil and filter in all my cars at 5K intervals. My question is if I am going to change the oil at 5K intervals is an ACEA A1/B1 oil adequate? Are the differences in the two oil ratings for those applications with extended oil change intervals? ACEA A3/B3 rated synthetics in a 5W-30 weight is not easily found in the USA. Any thoughts? Thanks Mike

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#1233748 - 09/11/08 01:01 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: kukaepe]
SamSpade Offline


Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 86
Loc: Philippines
Great ride you have. A3/B3 requires HTHS to be >3.5 (A1/B1 is 2.6<HTHS<3.5) and designed for extended drain intervals. If you drive it hard (I would) then stick with the A3/B3. I believe any 5W-30 that meets BMW LL-01 or LL-04 specs would be appropriate.

The appropriate OCI is another debate altogether. It's a decision you alone can make. Best answer from most would be to do an oil analysis every 5K miles.

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#1233798 - 09/11/08 05:40 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: SamSpade]
TeeDub Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 752
Loc: NY
An ACEA, A1/B1 oil is too thin for this engine. There are many A3/B3 oils in the US:

Castrol 0w-30
Mobil1, 0w-40, or 10w-30 High Mileage
Most any 5w-40 you can find on the shelf
Amsoil 5w-40 - can order by the case.

I'd use a BMW LL-01 or BMW LL-04 oil, changed every 10,000 miles.
_________________________
NYSOFMIND

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#1233801 - 09/11/08 06:00 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: TeeDub]
TeeDub Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 752
Loc: NY
By the way, I wouldn't obsess over the SAE 5w-30 part of the recommendation....

All the oils I mentioned will have a high temp, high shear rate (HT/HS), viscosity in the 3.5-3.8 Centipoise range when tested @ 150C/302F - thats THE relevant spec for all these Euro motors. A 5w-40, HD diesel oil (Rotella T, Mobil Delvac 1, etc), will be about 20%-25% thicker than this and can be used in a pinch, but will cost you some performance. The pumping losses associated with a more viscous lube increase at higher RPM's.
_________________________
NYSOFMIND

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#1233863 - 09/11/08 08:49 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: TeeDub]
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
For the gas engined vehicles I use an A5/B5 oil as it seemed like an easy way to pick a robust PCMO, and since M1 5w30 T&S was one of the few on the shelf at the time that's what I still use.

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#1234248 - 09/11/08 05:58 PM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: 1sttruck]
KA426 Offline


Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 328
Loc: Pennsylvania
Is there any relevancy to the A1/B1 motor oil standard concerning U.S. oils and engines?

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#1234274 - 09/11/08 07:14 PM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: 1sttruck]
Drivebelt Offline


Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 782
Loc: Alberta
Typically the A3 rated oils are blended near the high end of the 30 weight range (which is 9.3 - 12.5 cSt), so your typical A3 rated 5W-30 (30 weight) will usually be ~ 12.0 cSt.

The typical SM or A1/A5 rated 5W-30 oil will be a little thinner in viscosity usually ~ 10.5 cSt.

In a cooler climate like here in Alberta, running the little thinner 5W-30's would be fine (especially in the cooler months, fall, winter, spring). In a hotter climate like where you are, and in the Southern US, I would probably want the little thicker A3 type oil.

Since you are considering oils outside the A3, I think a good option would be to run one of the 10W-30 HDEO's (Heavy Duty Engine Oil), these oils are dual rated for both gasoline and diesel vehicles so they are fine for gas engines. These HDEO 10W-30 oils are blended up around 12.0 cSt just like the A3 rated oils.

Delo 400 LE 10W-30 12.0 cSt
Rotella T 10W-30 12.0 cSt

These HDEO are very high quality Group II based oils and should run 5k miles no problem in your Mini. A much less expensive option compared to running a synthetic oil 5k. Here in Canada, Petro-canada makes a HDEO 10W-30 (Duron) -- and they state in the product data sheet that it may be used in cars specifying A3/B3 or A3/B4.

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#1234349 - 09/11/08 09:27 PM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: KA426]
Bobert Offline


Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 805
Loc: Earth
BMW 5w-30 synthetic is A3 rated and is available at BMW dealers everywhere.

I wouldn't use A1 if your manual calls for A3 rated oil.

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#1234451 - 09/12/08 01:46 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: Bobert]
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
"Is there any relevancy to the A1/B1 motor oil standard concerning U.S. oils and engines? "

Were all of the sludgo engines a US thing, or was it a global problem ? It seemed to primarily be a US issue, even though engine loads appear to lower than elsewhere. Think maybe the preference for the cheapest possible dino has anything to do with it ?

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#1234456 - 09/12/08 02:21 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: 1sttruck]
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf

A1/B1 Oil intended for use in gasoline and car + light van diesel engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.6 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.

A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and direct injection diesel engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt

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#1236884 - 09/16/08 11:57 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: 1sttruck]
lars11 Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 951
Loc: Sweden
About these A1/B1 oils. What are they and why should you use them? I can't find one single oil here in Sweden in that class. Either A3/B3 or higher numbers. Really simple oils don't seem to have a ACEA designation at all...

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#1237436 - 09/17/08 07:21 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: lars11]
Fuzz1 Offline


Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Cape Town , South Africa
Ford recommends the use of 5w30 A1/B1 oil that meets M2C 913 B spec for all their cars including the ST and TDCi versions. These oils meet ILSAC GF 3 as well.

Ford Formula E and Castrol Magnatec 5w30 are all A1/B1 oils. Motul has one too

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#1237508 - 09/17/08 08:53 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: Fuzz1]
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
"Ford recommends the use of 5w30 A1/B1 oil that meets M2C 913 B spec for all their cars including the ST and TDCi versions. These oils meet ILSAC GF 3 as well."

5w20 is the promised oil, provided for use by all true believers, so surely you speak with a serpent's tongue.

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#1237559 - 09/17/08 10:15 AM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: 1sttruck]
Fuzz1 Offline


Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Cape Town , South Africa
LOL , I was just quoting my manual and we preffer higher viscosities in SA. 5w40 and 0w40 oils are most popular here


Edited by Fuzz1 (09/17/08 10:19 AM)

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#1237692 - 09/17/08 01:54 PM Re: ACEA A1/B1 vs ACEA A3/B3 [Re: Fuzz1]
HondaMan Offline


Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Texas
Is there a dino on US shelves that is ACEA A3 rated?

I know as Teedub mentioned you can go the HDEO route... those are E7 rated I believe.


Edited by HondaMan (09/17/08 01:56 PM)

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