Honda PSF UOA

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would be concerned about the seal agents and the lack of the proper friction modifier and dispersant.

I would recommend against it, albeit it's your vehicle if you want to experiment.


Your statement is enough to tell me not to try.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
when SF was still up & running, didn't recommend his standard (if you can bring any of his stuff down to that level) fare in their systems either.


Our synthetic PSF was a 10 cSt racing PSF and was a tad thicker than Honda's. We did run tests in a Honda's power steering system and did not find any "negative's," but since it didn't have the exact same additive package as the Honda fluid, we did not it recommend for Honda's PS.

Another reason was that we didn't think people would buy our more expensive fluid since you could go to WallyWorld and buy the Bardahl Honda mineral-based stuff for $2.50.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Friction modifier in a PS fluid?


Yes. PCMO's and ATF's and have special friction modifers (dynamic friction modifiers for composite materials clutch enagement)

as discussed here
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321

and the Honda fluid had it's specialty FM as well.

The friction modifiers in PCMO's are mainly there to reduce viscous drag friction and to reduce energy dissipation between moving parts:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729029#Post729029

 

[Tempest]

I am aware of the FM in ATF and PCMO, but why would a PSF need them? It might make things "smoother", but as long as the AW package is sufficient, I'm not seeing how things would break.

 

[MolaKule]

The difference between FM's and AW's are presnted here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729029#Post729029

Quote:
Fuel economy formulations involving FM's have to be selected on the following basis:
- FM properties
- dosage or treatment levels
- chemistry (chlorine, phosphorous, nitrogen, boron, ester type, etc)
- toxicity
- safety in handling
- oil solubility
- effect on metals, seals, and other engine materials
- possibility of synergism or antagonism
- acidity or alkalinity
- compatibility with other additives
- raw material availability and costs
- ease and cost of manufacturing
- patent coverage.

FM's can be employed in different forms in an additive package for a specific formulation. It can be added by itself without any other function, or may be part of molecule in a detergent (such as a sulfonate) or as part of a Viscosity Improver or antioxidant.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
What does it have that other PSFs dont ?


1. A slightly higher viscosity than other PSF's or ATFs.

2. A zddp AW package similar to that of an SL motor oil.

3. Special dispersants and fricion modifiers.

As far as the copper, maybe the Honda's PS pump has brass or bronze sleeve bearings?

Some of the ASE mechanics here may know.


I could have sworn I read about large amounts of antifoamants in the Honda stuff ?

 

[MolaKule]

Well, if they did it would be the acrylic polymer, but normally you don't mix the acrylic anti-foamant with the silicone polymer anti-foamant.

The '08 analysis only shows about 8 ppm of antifoamant.

 

[MolaKule]

It appers that a replacement PSF candidate for this Honda fluid would be the Redline PSF.

 

[benjamming]

Interesting on the Redline. So no go to Royal Purple or AMSOIL PSF?

 

[MolaKule]

Nothing wrong with Amsoil PSF. I have no experience with or analysis for the Royal Purple so can't comment.

However, I DO know the Redline additive package is closer to the OEM Hondas additive package, plus with the Redline, you know you're getting a full synthetic base oil with that comprehensive additive package.

 

[oilmaven]

I've only used the Honda PSF in my '96 Accord...done a couple of turkey baster drain and fills. Honda REALLY emphasizes NOT to use any other PSF...same with their coolant (which I've also used...pretty blue color). Price on their stuff isn't bad so I just use it and don't take any chances. I've not had any issues even during coldest winter temps. and I believe the Honda PSF is mineral based.