What Makes Synchromesh Fluid Work So Well ?

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I ended up swapping out the Mopar ATF+4 in favour of GM Synchromesh fluid in my 6 speed getrag manual transmission recently. I hated the way the transmission was shifting on 1st to 2nd gear upshifts, and some downshifts. The vehicle had about 700 miles on it. As soon as I swapped fluids the shifting problems disappeared, the entire transmission feels superb and totally transformed. I was worried that the tranny might have some cold weather shifting issues with the thicker viscosity fluid, but the odd thing is that it now shifts best in extreme cold weather use. Cold weather shifting is far better than the ATF+4 fluid could provide. I never expected that. The shifting improvement is felt across all temps though.

I've read many people rave about the shift improvement by going with GM synchromesh fluid in various different cars from Hondas to BMW's, typical cars that don't normally recommend a fluid like synchromesh. My car is in the same boat. Just wondering what it is about this type of fluid that works well in different types of trannies/vehicles ?. Anything about the makeup of this fluid that makes it work well in manual trannies ?. Do the other synchromesh type fluids on the market - Redline MTL and Amsoil MTF - use a similar chemistry in their fluids ?. It just seems that synchros really like something about the synchromesh fluid that your typical ATF fluid can't provide. Not sure what it is, but it is such a dramatic improvement that I can't imagine auto manufacturers trying to stick with ATF fluids in their trannies when they can do so much better with other fluids.
 
I think another one worth considering is Royal Purple SynchroMax. It made a difference in my bimmer.

I may have to give the GM Synchromesh fluid a try.
 
Quote:
Just wondering what it is about this type of fluid that works well in different types of trannies/vehicles ?. Anything about the makeup of this fluid that makes it work well in manual trannies ?. Do the other synchromesh type fluids on the market - Redline MTL and Amsoil MTF - use a similar chemistry in their fluids ?. It just seems that synchros really like something about the synchromesh fluid that your typical ATF fluid can't provide. Not sure what it is, but it is such a dramatic improvement that


Anything about the makeup of this fluid that makes it work well in manual trannies ?.


In your case, It's the combination of correct viscosity and the friction modifier. The friction modifier, in application specific mtls, is a chemical compound precisely chosen for the meshing of synchros.


Do the other synchromesh type fluids on the market - Redline MTL and Amsoil MTF - use a similar chemistry in their fluids ?.


Yes, that's why they are called mtl fluids instead of ATF's.

I can't imagine auto manufacturers trying to stick with ATF fluids in their trannies when they can do so much better with other fluids.


Well, neither can we.
 
Originally Posted By: JSRT4
I ended up swapping out the Mopar ATF+4 in favour of GM Synchromesh fluid in my 6 speed getrag manual transmission recently.


Some years ago, people were draining the ATF out of their GT Mustang Borg-Warner T45's and filling with GM Synchromesh. Talk about heresy - GM fluid in A Ford! But even the diehard rabid anti-GM 'stangers gave it good reviews - in many instances it made a marked improvement in that crummy tranny.

later,
b
 
thanks for the quick replies. While I was initially worried about causing harm to the tranny, my fears have been settled. I chose the GM synchromesh over Redline and Amsoil's as it is a tad thinner than the others and I wanted to avoid cold weather problems. Seems like the increased viscosity that this fluid has over ATF+4 doesn't harm anything in cold weather, so I hope to keep using this long enough to do a UOA.

The GM synchromesh is a semi-synthetic fluid, whatever that means these days. Given that I will probably swap it out once per year, cheap maintenance.

Thanks for the information fellas, this forum has been very helpful with my questions.
 
Originally Posted By: kd5byb
Originally Posted By: JSRT4
I ended up swapping out the Mopar ATF+4 in favour of GM Synchromesh fluid in my 6 speed getrag manual transmission recently.


Some years ago, people were draining the ATF out of their GT Mustang Borg-Warner T45's and filling with GM Synchromesh. Talk about heresy - GM fluid in A Ford! But even the diehard rabid anti-GM 'stangers gave it good reviews - in many instances it made a marked improvement in that crummy tranny.

later,
b


yeah I guess I can't expect Chrysler to recommend me to use GM Synchromesh in their transmission, that would certainly be another example of heresy, he, he, he. So they stick with an ATF that they have floating around in their supply chain and call it a day.
 
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Molakule I will change fluid in my Getrag 5-speed soon. Dave at Redline said D4ATF. What do you say? Cheers..stephen


I'm surprised he didn't recommend their MTL, as you likely don't have any cold weather concerns in Australia. I once used Redline MTL in a New Venture T-850 5 speed tranny, while it worked extremely well in warm weather, it did cause some stiffer shifting in below-freezing winter weather conditions. It was great in 3 out of the 4 seasons we get in my area.
 
molakule,

does the lighter wt of the GM Synchromesh FM pose any problems for transmissions which call for 90wt or 75w-90 wt oils? i noticed that the GM is a 9.08 vs 10.6 for MTL and 15.6 for RL 75w-90 (Vis @ 100°C, cSt). while i have been an advocate of the GM product for the miata, i have worried a bit about wear.

thoughts?
 
GM sells two versions of Synchromesh; both semi-synthetic but one is friction-modified

Sorry, no specs but these are the part numbers:

12345349 = regular
12377916 = modified
 
All Pennzoil Synchromesh is the same, including that sold at AZ

It's identical to GM stuff (no FM), including the 9.08 viscosity

I've used both in a Ford T56 and couldn't tell the difference.....Pennzoil was half the price


"PENNZOIL® SYNCHROMESH FLUID is specifically formulated for synchromesh transmissions used by General Motors
requiring General Motors Part No. 12345349 (Specification No. 9985648)"
 
Shell also has a synchromesh fluid. It's called MTX -- same 9.08 cSt.

Last year I was looking for something better for my MT and I couldn't find any synchromesh. Shifting wasn't that great and in the winter even 75W-90 gear oil thickened up too much for my tastes (1987 Jetta 5 spd). So I tried mixing some of my own
cool.gif
... a ~ 55/45 blend of 5W-30 conventional motor oil/75W90 GL-4/5. This home-blend works great. Shifting has improved and at -30C this winter it worked great.

I'll be looking for some synchromesh for my next MT change, but if I can't find any, it's going to be home-brew again.
thumbsup2.gif
 
In Canada GM dealers only sell one kind of GM Synchromesh fluid, there is no such thing as the one with extra FM up here for some reason. I wonder what applications would use added FM fluid, perhaps ones with limited slip diffs or something ?
 
Originally Posted By: cheetahdriver
molakule,

does the lighter wt of the GM Synchromesh FM pose any problems for transmissions which call for 90wt or 75w-90 wt oils? i noticed that the GM is a 9.08 vs 10.6 for MTL and 15.6 for RL 75w-90 (Vis @ 100°C, cSt). while i have been an advocate of the GM product for the miata, i have worried a bit about wear.

thoughts?


I personally don't have a problem running a slightly thicker fluid in an application that calls for a thinner fluid, but I wouldn't run a thinner fluid in an application that runs a thickrr fluid. I would use the fluid that is no thinner than your stock fluid to prevent excess wear.
 
GM added friction-modified Synchromesh about 5 years ago for the New Venture NV1500 transmission

Not sure if they spec it for anything else but there's anecdotal evidence that it has helped shifting in problem manuals.

I've never used it.
 
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