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POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110618 11/28/04 10:16 AM
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427Z06 Offline OP
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I hope this topic hasn't been discussed before...I did a search and didn't find anything.

Do POE or Ester based syn oils handle fuel dilution better than PAO based syns?

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110619 11/29/04 06:45 AM
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MolaKule Offline
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It depends on what you mean by "handle."

Since a full synthetic oil has a better VI, then it should better protect against wear once it has been diluted by fuel.

But any oil can only accomodate so much fuel dilution before it thins way below grade and then wear goes up.

Terry Dyson may have some historical data on this topic.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110620 11/29/04 10:11 AM
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427Z06 Offline OP
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Thanks MolaKule. Excuse my limited technical vocabulary in this subject area, but by "handle" fuel dilution better, I meant do POEs somehow resist changing it's "lubricity" properties, whether physically or chemically, more so than PAOs?

If I understand what you are saying, then the only change to either is physical, i.e., lowering of the viscosity as fuel dilution increases, which implies the viscoisity index of either basestock will be the determining factor?

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110621 11/29/04 04:35 PM
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MGBV8 Offline
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Motul 300V is 20%+ Diester and Polyolester blend with balance in PAO
Website indicates handling of fuel dilution
http://www.motul.com/uk/produits/index.html

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110622 11/30/04 08:57 AM
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Terry Offline
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427, the molecular structure of most POE and other ester lubes have a better affinity for metal and will remain lubricious by their ability to "STICK" ( like Handle [Eek!] ) to the lubricated component.

Thus a PAO base could be more negatively influenced and the protected component more severely worn by the fuel dilute impact.

Both bases resist hydrodynamic influences of chemical and physical shear about the same, keeping a good ring seal that resists the corresponding "snowball" ( like stick and handle) [I dont know] effect of fuel dilute in a piston engine.

So yes from our testing we see heavier levels of POE and Esters resist increased wear when compared to a primarily PAO syn lube.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110623 11/29/04 09:16 PM
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427Z06 Offline OP
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Thanks Terry.

After your and MolaKule responses another thought occurred to me.

Would it generally be the case that since both PAOs and POEs have naturally high Viscosity Indexes, and thus generally less Viscosity Index Improvers that oils made up of these basestocks are less negatively influenced by fuel dilution?

Stated another way are Viscosity Index Improvers more negatively influenced by fuel dilution than the PAO/POE basestocks?


Thanks in advance.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110624 11/29/04 09:29 PM
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Terry Offline
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Your premise is correct except that the VII's( by themselves) are very resistant to fuel since they are synthetic polymers themselves.

The host base oils are affected by fuel more than the correction adds and fluids.

Chemists like Mola and Rick20 may have a better explanation.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110625 11/30/04 03:29 AM
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buster Offline
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Esters clearly help an oils resistance to shear as you see with RL and it's incredible HT/HS specs. Don't forget though, even RL is a blend of PAO and Esters (65% Ester ?) compared to M1/Amsoil which are mainly PAO with 15% Ester. M1/Amsoil would probably have a better resistance to break down under HT/HS if they increased the esters a bit. Are their any 100% Ester based oils and are they even desirable? [I dont know]

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110626 11/30/04 08:18 AM
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427Z06 Offline OP
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M1 SuperSyn has %15 esters in it? I thought it was mainly Polyalphaolefins and Alkylated Naphthalenes when they switched from Tri-synthetic to SuperSyn? [I dont know]

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110627 11/30/04 04:37 PM
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According to my UK sources M1 is esterless. Interesting that adding Redline to M1 appears to get good results.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110628 11/30/04 09:40 PM
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haley10 Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by MGBV8:
According to my UK sources M1 is esterless. Interesting that adding Redline to M1 appears to get good results.

That's what I thought. Like ZO6 said, I thought they were now using AN's. They seem to be maintaining the content high at 26% in the Delvac.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110629 12/01/04 04:12 AM
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buster Offline
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Eventually they were to use AN's if they aren't already.

Re: POE Oils Handle Fuel Dilution Better? #110630 12/01/04 04:24 AM
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MolaKule Offline
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quote:
Are their any 100% Ester based oils and are they even desirable?
In my view they would be desirable, except for the cost factor.

In economic and performance terms, the PAO/ester combo is tough to improve upon.

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