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#718830 - 08/12/07 06:37 AM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: Gremil]
toocrazy2yoo Offline

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Herndon, Virginia
If only I could get the 0W20 Pennzoil Platinum now, I could be a happ-happ-happy man!

#718831 - 08/24/07 01:09 AM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: toocrazy2yoo]
ARB1977 Offline

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 5001
Loc: North Texas
And yet why does it make valve train noise.
2015 Tacoma 4.0L 52K (as of 8-17-17)
M1 EP 5W30 & BioTech / Toyota filter

2008 CRV 2.4L 172K (as of 12-18-17)
Maxlife 5W20 / M1 filter

#718832 - 08/29/07 07:09 AM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: FD777]
Gary in Sandy Eggo Offline

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 169
Loc: Sandy Eggo
Yes, 0W-30 can be thicker at operating temperature than a 10W-30. It all depends on how much VI improving polymers are added to the base 0W oil and how much less is added to the 10W oil. However, what this entire analysis ignores is the viscosity shear-down at operating temperature that occurs in all oils using VI improvers. The more improvers are used, the faster the shear-down. 0W-30 will have more VI improvers than 10W-30.

Someone on this board sent me to a dissertation on thin oils about a year ago. Thank you. However, being a dinosaur, I cannot be convinced that thinner oils provide as much metal-to-metal separation as thicker oils. Additives that "sacrifice" themselves in metal-to-metal contact are a poor substitute for keeping the moving metal parts from touching in the first place.

Why do you think they have a "high-mileage" version of multigrade oils for cars over 65K miles. The wee-wee you've been putting in your car engine has allowed more wear, and now you've got to use thicker oil just to fill in the "gaps" between the moving parts.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo

#718833 - 08/29/07 08:03 AM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: ARB1977]
Colt45ws Offline

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 9585
Loc: Central Washington

And yet why does it make valve train noise.

No valve train noise here with 5w20 PP or 0w20 Amsoil in a chrysler 4.7L that recommended 5w30. Right now it has almost 74k on the clock. Consumption is lower as well.
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 70k
Havoline HM 5W20, Supertech ST2

#718834 - 08/30/07 06:50 AM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: Gary in Sandy Eggo]
FD777 Offline

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 223
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA

However, what this entire analysis ignores is the viscosity shear-down at operating temperature that occurs in all oils using VI improvers. The more improvers are used, the faster the shear-down. 0W-30 will have more VI improvers than 10W-30.

I'll agree that this is generally true. However, I wouldn't make this blanket statement because there are exceptions. (Redline Oil comes to mind.)

As a personal experience, my 0w-30 oil stayed in grade better than my 10w-30 oil. (I'm intentionally leaving out the brand(s), I don't want any bashing.) And you'll find that many oils with a wide viscosity range won't "shear-down".

The point of this write-up is to dispel the myth that certain oils are "thin". I'm not promoting the use any specific oil, just trying to deliver some facts.

And for those who missed it:
MANY other factors about oil were not discussed here. Please don't base your oil preference on viscosity numbers only.

#718835 - 10/08/07 02:11 AM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: FD777]

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 1874
Loc: Ocala, Florida
what people don't understand is that in the old days, visc made a big difference as far as protection. why? because it was acting like a barrier additive. it was thicker and it took more pressure to squeeze the oil out between the parts. therefore it protected more. now, we have better barrier additives and no longer have to use as thick of oil as we use to. we now get better protection in a lower visc oil but also get better gas mileage because it takes less to move the oil unlike the thick oil we use to use. visc use to play a big role in protecting an engine but now, along with visc, additives make a big difference as well.

#718836 - 11/02/07 06:30 PM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: LarryL]
widman Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3282
Loc: Bolivia
Very good and simple explanation. I think the definition of thinner or thickens less it like 6 of one and half dozen of the other.
In case anyone wants to make their own graph, click here and supply your own viscosities: (even though it is spanish, I think you can figure out how to use it)

I'm sure pour point depresants modify the low end a little. That is a straight calculation based on viscosities input.
Richard's Car Restorations

#1026337 - 11/10/07 06:29 PM Re: FAQ - Thin Oil Myth [Re: widman]
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL

Well put. For whatever reason, there seems to be a great deal of "retro-think" with respect to engines, oils, and their characteristics. Another factor that really come into play in the last decade or so is the improvement in metalworking and machining, which has allowed tighter clearances, made to very close tolerances.
09 Camry Hybrid, Black (M1 5w-20, std flavor).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl (GC 0w-30).
04 Prius, Black (GC -- 0w-30).

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