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looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil

Posted By: benjy

looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 07:38 PM

oil shopping as the REAL synthetics i have been using are getting more spendy, so lookin at Maxima Ester synthetic blend said to use 50% ester, also belray EXP synthetic ester blend but , no specs just bla bla marketing!! + last of all liqui moly 4T ALL 15-50 flavors, all about $8 a qt + or- delivered. i have 3 rides + with a not so long season in PA 5 thou at most on each. input or more specs appreciated by any users
Posted By: ad244

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 08:06 PM

Why not go this route? Could be good for almost 2 oil changes...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...;linkId=f6939e87d3ae5c1e285e1230e0fbe58e
Posted By: sunruh

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 08:20 PM

exactly why would you want 15w50 over 20w50?

exxon superflo 20w50 or better yet valvoline vr1 20w50
Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 08:26 PM

Refining means removing less desirable elements from petroleum until
what’s left is mostly higher-performing molecular structures. Waxy
stuff had to go because it made oil congeal at winter temperatures.
Aromatics had to go because they lost viscosity too rapidly when hot.
Unsaturates had to go because they were vulnerable to heat-driven
gumming and sludging. And so on.

What is 100% true for all the synthetics are uniform sized molecules
that don't exists naturally... so armed with that knowledge you can
shop for the best synthetic price because no matter what brand of
uniform molecules we choose they will meet or exceed our mileage
expectations...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: kschachn

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
What is 100% true for all the synthetics are uniform sized molecules
that don't exists naturally... so armed with that knowledge you can
shop for the best synthetic price because no matter what brand of
uniform molecules we choose they will meet or exceed our mileage
expectations...

Wait, so a Group III synthetic has different shaped molecules than a non-synthetic "dino" oil?

And all of this matters how in the far, far larger bearing clearance space?
Posted By: ad244

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
What is 100% true for all the synthetics are uniform sized molecules
that don't exists naturally... so armed with that knowledge you can
shop for the best synthetic price because no matter what brand of
uniform molecules we choose they will meet or exceed our mileage
expectations...

Wait, so a Group III synthetic has different shaped molecules than a non-synthetic "dino" oil?

And all of this matters how in the far, far larger bearing clearance space?


Exactly what I was thinking
Posted By: krismoriah72

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 09:57 PM

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil

Mystik JT8 15w50 $25/2 gallons at Rural King

$6/qt $22/gal $39/2gal at Oreillys.

Lots of UOAs great results, great oil.
Posted By: Kawiguy454

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 10:06 PM

Ive been using M1 15-50 in everything wet clutch for years without issue. My 2012 C-14 has 42K miles zero issues. The 200+HP H2 ...also Zero issues. Shell T6 also no problemo. The M1 can be had at WallyWorld for $24 jug all day long and the Shell even less. Getting all chemistry hair splitting adds little value if you change it regularly IMO.
Posted By: 928

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/17/20 10:49 PM

Put the finest oil in them. Forget price, it's not like they hold a lot.
Posted By: Convert

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 12:21 AM

I'm using Mobil 1 15-50 syn in my Moto Guzzi Convert.

No.issues in 600,000 miles in 35 years in all the Moto Guzzi s that I've owned.

$22.00 at Walmart


Just remember that it doesn't have a shared sump.

Convert
Tom
Posted By: Cujet

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 12:30 AM

Another vote for plain old M1, 15W-50. Purchase it at Walmart in the 5 quart jugs and change regularly. Superb results.
Posted By: FastGame

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 12:46 AM

Another Mobil 1 15-50 person, works well in the KZ 1000, Concours 14, ZX-14R.
Posted By: benjy

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 01:38 AM

NO Castrol products!!! as they screwed up what was once sold as synthetic only being a real man made oil. i like 15-50 because it flows better in cooler weather + my bike starts, unlike Amsoils 20-50 that cranked too slow + killed the battery + the 50 gives more protection but many are said to shear quicker, a common thing with group III fake synthetics with a wider spread!! i prefer synthetics + at the moment Maxima ester blend with an advertised 50% of ester base oil is in the lead!
Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 01:53 AM

Because Mobil owns 80% of the synthetic market they can offer a value product for a competitive price...
If you wish to save even more then Mobil auto is even cheaper than their own Motorcycle specific oil...

Chemically speaking Mobil (M1) auto is about the same as Mobil's motorcycle specific oil...
[Linked Image]



Posted By: Bonz

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 02:18 AM

BLS, the Mobil 1 15w50 has nowhere near that additive package in the oil you can purchase today

You've done this with other oils as well, it's not relevant when that oil is not available.

You don't state when that comparison was done and nowhere on the Mobil website is there any thing that could be construed as remotely close to that additive package in the 15w50.

It's not a matter of opinion here, it's a matter of fact.
Posted By: 02SE

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Because Mobil owns 80% of the synthetic market they can offer a value product for a competitive price...
If you wish to save even more then Mobil auto is even cheaper than their own Motorcycle specific oil...

Chemically speaking Mobil (M1) auto is about the same as Mobil's motorcycle specific oil...
[Linked Image]





Yeah, maybe 15 years ago the Mobil 1 15w50 Auto oil had that level of ZDDP.
Posted By: FastGame

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 03:35 AM

As of Oct. 2019 it has 1200 Phosphorus and 1300 Zinc, that's good enough for motocycles.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf
Posted By: Bonz

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 04:24 AM

Absolutely agree with you that the spec shows it's enough for most any motorcycle. FWIW, my used oil analysis on M1 15w50 showed just over a thousand PPM of zinc. My analysis, far right column.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...1200-mobil-1-10w40-4t-racing#Post4865603

BLS, what is the year that comparison was done? Another member alludes to the same question by saying it probably hasn't had that for 15 years. What is the point of posting it?

Mobil specifies 1300 PPM, and almost 1700 PPM is being claimed by you as representative in this case. Point being current M1 15w50 has nowhere near almost 1,700 PPM of zinc.
Posted By: jeff78

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by kschachn
Wait, so a Group III synthetic has different shaped molecules than a non-synthetic "dino" oil?


Clearly, because the picture says so!

More importantly, the additive molecules in a synthetic oil are also all the exact same size and perfect spherical shape as the oil molecules themselves!

LOL
Posted By: jeff78

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bonz
BLS, what is the year that comparison was done? Another member alludes to the same question by saying it probably hasn't had that for 15 years. What is the point of posting it?


It's his MO. Look through his posts and you'll see he just copies & pastes the same ol' misinformation over and over again - borderline trolling.
Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/18/20 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bonz


BLS, what is the year that comparison was done?


No date was given... I've contacted Blackstone for more VOA data...
Posted By: Bonz

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 12:43 AM

Be sure it's current information, if it's not don't bother. Like I said in the last post, that is not current formulation and it does no one any good.
Posted By: Papa Bear

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 03:37 AM

Do you require JASO MA/MB ??
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by benjy
oil shopping as the REAL synthetics i have been using are getting more spendy, so lookin at Maxima Ester synthetic blend said to use 50% ester, also belray EXP synthetic ester blend but , no specs just bla bla marketing!! + last of all liqui moly 4T ALL 15-50 flavors, all about $8 a qt + or- delivered. i have 3 rides + with a not so long season in PA 5 thou at most on each. input or more specs appreciated by any users


Answer is simple.
Mystik JT8 Semi Syn 15w50, made by a major refiner (Citgo) and has been around forever. Mystic is Citgos brand, Citgo also formulates private brand oils.

Ive post numerous UOAs in here and someplace is also a VOA. I personally love the stuff, not because the low cost but because its the only reasonable after market oil I can find besides Harley oil (of which I believe Citgo also makes but have no solid proof) HD formulations are close though.

Anyway, here is my UOA post, it is self explanatory. Oh and the cost? Roughly $30 deilevered to my home for a TWO GALLON jug from Rural King, you can also order direct from Mystiks website. .. If you have a Rural King near you, the price for a TWO gallon jug is only $24.99 without shipping.
Here is 3 UOAs on the Mystic;
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...tthread/Board/49/main/274587/type/thread

Here is the VOA; (note in Blackstones comments they incorrectly refer to it as a 15/40, Its a 15/50 as posted on the top of the page in the VOA
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=...51E763D%21182&parId=root&o=OneUp
Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 07:59 PM


Hey BLS, give us the current information or don't even bother...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by FastGame
As of Oct. 2019 it has 1200 Phosphorus and 1300 Zinc, that's good enough for motocycles.


I agree...

Thanks to BITOG data I think we finding the single most common
misunderstanding about motor oil is that higher Z & Ph levels provide
greater wear protection. fact is more Z&Ph provides longer wear protection...
but that might be a moot point given the short oil change intervals owners
favor...

Understanding Zinc

Zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is
only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine.
At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the
sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and
other highly loaded engine parts.
Posted By: kschachn

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Thanks to BITOG data I think we finding the single most common
misunderstanding about motor oil is that higher Z & Ph levels provide
greater wear protection. fact is more Z&Ph provides longer wear protection...
but that might be a moot point given the short oil change intervals owners
favor...

Understanding Zinc

Zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is
only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine.
At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the
sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and
other highly loaded engine parts.

Nice cut-and-paste, specifically lifted from a Rat.

ZDDP ("zinc") is not a lubricant, in fact it increases friction. But of course that Rat doesn't get much of anything correct so it's not a surprise he's in error here too.
Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/19/20 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy

Mystik JT8 Semi Syn 15w50, made by a major refiner (Citgo) and has been around forever. Mystic is Citgos brand, Citgo also formulates private brand oils.


Granted Mystick will meet and exceed our mileage expectations however
the more we research oil the more we realize any major brand will meet or
exceed our mile expectations... there is not one oil in the 300,000 mileage
club... there are 30 40 50 grade oils... there are synthetic and mineral oils...
for some the deciding factor is cost.. no problem I can respect that
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/20/20 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by alarmguy

Mystik JT8 Semi Syn 15w50, made by a major refiner (Citgo) and has been around forever. Mystic is Citgos brand, Citgo also formulates private brand oils.


Granted Mystick will meet and exceed our mileage expectations however
the more we research oil the more we realize any major brand will meet or
exceed our mile expectations... there is not one oil in the 300,000 mileage
club... there are 30 40 50 grade oils... there are synthetic and mineral oils...
for some the deciding factor is cost.. no problem I can respect that


Im purposely reposting my post from a few posts up in this thread. Im scratching my head on your reply and not sure how or why you did reply.
Here is what I wrote;

_______________________________
"Answer is simple.
Mystik JT8 Semi Syn 15w50, made by a major refiner (Citgo) and has been around forever. Mystic is Citgos brand, Citgo also formulates private brand oils.

Ive post numerous UOAs in here and someplace is also a VOA. I personally love the stuff, not because the low cost but because its the only reasonable after market oil I can find besides Harley oil (of which I believe Citgo also makes but have no solid proof) HD formulations are close though.

Anyway, here is my UOA post, it is self explanatory. Oh and the cost? Roughly $30 deilevered to my home for a TWO GALLON jug from Rural King, you can also order direct from Mystiks website. .. If you have a Rural King near you, the price for a TWO gallon jug is only $24.99 without shipping.
Here is 3 UOAs on the Mystic;
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...tthread/Board/49/main/274587/type/thread

Here is the VOA; (note in Blackstones comments they incorrectly refer to it as a 15/40, Its a 15/50 as posted on the top of the page in the VOA
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=...51E763D%21182&parId=root&o=OneUp"
___________________________________

We are in a "motorcycle lubrication" thread.
OP was looking for a less costly 15w50 oil. I gave him that oil, hands down in the links above, Mystic a premium HDEO. It cant be beat and also very hard to find 15/50 or 20/50 HDEO in the USA at reasonable cost.

Mobile 1 15w50 automotive is another option at slightly high cost. I was tempted but it doesnt have a HDEO CH4+ or higher required by my bike maker.
It does claim a CF but makes no sense to pay more for a lower rating.

Thanks to this link from 'Fastgame" I might be tempted to try the Mobile 1 15/50 for fun as I am at the last of EIGHT gallons of Mystic that I purchased for my bike and also used it in my boat last year. All told over the years I have used about 10 gallons of Mystic JT8 in my bike and could not be more happy with an oil.
AS far as this talk of 300,000 miles, that is too bizarre for me to even approach. :o)


Anyway, always been curious about other oils but wanted to stick to the Harley recommendation for HDEO, as I know my bike inside and out, noise and most important I know my oil temperatures in every possible operating and riding condition known to mankind (except for temps below 50 because I live in the south. :o)
(Im sure not many in here do know what temps they run at, it was an eye opening experience for me, years ago when I installed a digital oil temperature dipstick)

From the mountains to the sea, traffic jams to interstate speeds, hours at a time at a true GPS 80 MPH two up @ 100 degree outdoor temperatures plus then beach traffic, massive storms ya. da ya da...
I have convinced myself to maybe try the Mobile 1 for fun and use my last Mystic on my boat oil change this spring maybe. Just for fun, to see if their is any difference, better or worse with oil temperature between the oils. I do not in anyway think the Mobile 1 would be any better for the engine, that would not be the purpose of trying the oil, in fact it goes against Harleys HDEO requirement but I know I will not be doing any damage.


Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/20/20 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy


Im purposely reposting my post from a few posts up in this thread. Im scratching my head on your reply and not sure how or why you did reply.


Mercy... my message was to the OP in case there any doubt about following your suggestion... I'll clarify in a repost...

OP after you read all the positive data from alarmguy if you are still
not sure about trying Mystik here another factor to digest... there is
mounting evidence from Blackstone and BITOG that the more we research
oil the more we realize any major brand will meet or exceed our mile
expectations... there is not one oil in the 300,000 mileage club...
there are 30 40 50 grade oils... there are synthetic and mineral
oils... if the deciding factor is cost.. no problem I can respect
that...
Posted By: BBDartCA

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/21/20 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
Ive been using M1 15-50 in everything wet clutch for years without issue. My 2012 C-14 has 42K miles zero issues. The 200+HP H2 .m.


M1 15-50 is $26 for 5-quart jug at my local Walmart and has worked OK in my air cooled street bikes. Not an Energy Conserving oil but also not a dedicated JASO MA product. Shift quality ok for me.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Advanced-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-15W-50-5-qt/20713647
Posted By: bachman

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/21/20 09:46 AM

I could be way out of line or 'the times' since my reading into m/c oil was 15 years ago and I haven't followed much on oil tech at all since then.
I had found a site on 'all about motor oil' with some inclination to motorcycles and knowing I wanted wet clutch safe, my options were the many he listed. Ultimately one of the better or best choices readily available at sub $20 a gallon at the time was Rotella T synthetic. I run it in a 1995 CB750/four.

https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oil.html
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/21/20 12:59 PM

"BusyLittleShop"

^^ No problem, I guess I read your post wrong, easy to do in a forum. I thought, for some reason the 300,000 mile comment was ... ummm ... Im not sure *L*
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/21/20 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by BBDartCA
Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
Ive been using M1 15-50 in everything wet clutch for years without issue. My 2012 C-14 has 42K miles zero issues. The 200+HP H2 .m.


M1 15-50 is $26 for 5-quart jug at my local Walmart and has worked OK in my air cooled street bikes. Not an Energy Conserving oil but also not a dedicated JASO MA product. Shift quality ok for me.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Advanced-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-15W-50-5-qt/20713647


Yes, exactly. If you want a full syn, Mobile 1 15/50 for sure.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/21/20 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Because Mobil owns 80% of the synthetic market they can offer a value product for a competitive price...
If you wish to save even more then Mobil auto is even cheaper than their own Motorcycle specific oil...

Chemically speaking Mobil (M1) auto is about the same as Mobil's motorcycle specific oil...
[Linked Image]





Yeah, maybe 15 years ago the Mobil 1 15w50 Auto oil had that level of ZDDP.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is a brand new UOA from a vehicle with only 6000 miles on the oil.
I wouldn't hesitate to use this oil in any motorcycle.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...15w50-6k-mi-oci-21-6k-mi-c7-corvette-z06

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: BBDartCA

Re: looking for a good less costly 15-50 motorcycle oil - 02/22/20 07:39 AM

There is a seller on eBay with Motul 7000 “full synthetic ... ester” for $34/4L in various weights. If somebody wants a JASO MA “full synthetic” this is a decent lower cost option.
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