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DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic

Posted By: Ed_Flecko

DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 05:18 PM

I'm looking for some of you who majored in Chemistry during College.

smile

My dog has very sensitive skin, so I'm trying to adjust the pH balance of a recipe that was given to me by my veterinarian.

"The first rule of dog bathing is not to use a human shampoo. The pH of dog skin is very different to that of human skin. While our skin has a pH of around 5.5 to 5.6, your dog's skin is much more neutral, averaging a pH of between 6.2 and 7.4. Shampoos formulated for humans are much more acidic than those for dogs, and using a human shampoo can upset the balance of a dog's skin." Source: https://bit.ly/2sWReYQ

If a dog shampoo is too acidic, it would have a drying effect on my dogs' skin and *probably* make her itchy, wouldn't you think?

To reverse that, what if you had a shampoo that's too alkaline? What *likely* effect would it have on my dogs' skin?

Thank you!

Ed
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
My dog has very sensitive skin, so I'm trying to adjust the pH balance of a recipe that was given to me by my veterinarian.


What's the recipe? It should be fine for your dog since it came from the vet who knows that your dog has sensitive skin.
Posted By: Leo99

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 05:42 PM

I'd guess too basic would also make the skin itchy. What's the recipe? Maybe it's a buffered solution to it maintains the pH.
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 05:55 PM

Here's the recipe:

Jason Restorative Shampoo with Biotin 16 oz - https://bit.ly/2HLyUqq
Aloe vera juice 2 oz
Green Tea 4 oz
Witch Hazel 2 oz
Apple Cider Vinegar 4 oz
Olive oil 1 Tbsp.

Shake well before each use.

To make the Green Tea……..take 2 teaspoons or 4 teabags + ½ cup of HOT water……and let them soak for about 45 minutes. Then it’s ready to mix.

I had a friend of mine who works in a Chemistry lab test the ph and it's appx. 4 which seems way too acidic for dog skin.

Ed
Posted By: CT8

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 05:58 PM

Do you feed the dog a high quality diet?
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:01 PM

The recipe looks acidic. What brand/type dog food do you give her? That can make a big difference. I'm sure certain fats/oils would be good for her coat/skin. What breed is she?
Posted By: Boomer

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:10 PM

4 oz of vinegar is going to kick that pH DOWN and make it acidic! Try it without the vinegar and see what the pH is.
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:19 PM

Vinegar can be good for certain skin issues on humans so maybe it's similar for dogs. Plus the vinegar is being rinsed off after a short time.
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
The recipe looks acidic. What brand/type dog food do you give her? That can make a big difference. I'm sure certain fats/oils would be good for her coat/skin. What breed is she?


My dog is a German Shepherd Dog.

Her diet, since you asked, is modeled after the canine ancestral diet. The goal is to try and achieve a diet comprised of 49% protein, 44% fat and 6% carbohydrate by using 75% meat, organs and bone, and 25% vegetables and fruit by volume. My dogs diet is comprised of 99% certified, Non-GMO, organic ingredients. It also includes certified organic raw heart and certified organic liver, both beef and chicken. Both are fed raw and are not cooked.

Every meal my dog eats is comprised on the following elements:

• Protein
• Vegetable and fruit
• Fatty acid supplement
• Bone meal
• Vitamin and supplement

The protein component of my dogs' diet is either cooked chicken, beef, turkey, fish or pork and eggs. The protein component is approximately 9 oz. of this mix with each meal.

The vegetable/fruit mix is comprised of a rotated variety of vegetables and fruit. A typical example is 2 lbs. broccoli, 12 oz. celery, 6 oz. blueberries, and 6 oz. watermelon. These ingredients are pureed in a VitaMix blender and Jazzy typically eats approximately 4 oz. of this mix with each meal.

To ensure complete vitamins and minerals, I custom grind (with a coffee grinder) specific portions of Himalayan pink salt , iron, copper, manganese, zinc, iodine, Vitamin D, dry Vitamin E and taurine as a vitamin mix that is included in every meal.

Ed
Posted By: Johnny2Bad

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:35 PM

Well, soaps are all alkaline, but shampoos are not the same as hand soap, for example. So some acidic element to bring down the pH does not seem out of the ordinary to me. Why not order some litmus paper from Amazon or eBay and confirm and if need be, adjust the pH yourself?

Something with lanolin (which is derived from sheep's wool, and sheep may not be good for much but staying out in the rain is one of them) will prevent your dog's skin from drying out.

-edit
Missed that you had it tested at pH 4.0 That does seem very acidic. Can you double-check the recipe or perhaps seek out some alternatives from the web at sites you trust? It might be right, though ... drying of the skin would be more likely as the shampoo goes alkaline. Provided it will mix with oils (and it should, as there is already olive oil in the formula) that will clean, and perhaps acidic of natural pH is the best way to avoid drying of the dog's skin.
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Well, soaps are all alkaline, but shampoos are not the same as hand soap, for example. So some acidic element to bring down the pH does not seem out of the ordinary to me. Why not order some litmus paper from Amazon or eBay and confirm and if need be, adjust the pH yourself?

Something with lanolin (which is derived from sheep's wool, and sheep may not be good for much but staying out in the rain is one of them) will prevent your dog's skin from drying out.


That's my intent. The only difficult part would be deciding what specific ingredients to include into the final product!

smile

Ed
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:44 PM

Nutrition looks very good. Do you brush her regularly? I noticed the first ingredient is human shampoo. I would think a good quality dog shampoo from a pet store would be good.

https://www.shepped.com/grooming/
Posted By: Johnny2Bad

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Well, soaps are all alkaline, but shampoos are not the same as hand soap, for example. So some acidic element to bring down the pH does not seem out of the ordinary to me. Why not order some litmus paper from Amazon or eBay and confirm and if need be, adjust the pH yourself?

Something with lanolin (which is derived from sheep's wool, and sheep may not be good for much but staying out in the rain is one of them) will prevent your dog's skin from drying out.


That's my intent. The only difficult part would be deciding what specific ingredients to include into the final product!

smile

Ed


I added some stuff between your posts. What about 'Mane and Tail' (horse shampoo)? It's sold everywhere they deal with farm supplies.
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Nutrition looks very good. Do you brush her regularly? I noticed the first ingredient is human shampoo. I would think a good quality dog shampoo from a pet store would be good.

https://www.shepped.com/grooming/


There are *some* good dog shampoos but most pet stores don't carry those brands, I'm guessing, because most people don't want to pay for organic ingredients, etc. To many people, it's not worth the additional cost.

Ed
Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 07:54 PM

Originally Posted By: CT8
Do you feed the dog a high quality diet?


Yes I was just about to say the same thing. My Jack Russell Terrier has allergies that get him going fleas and his food. I switched his food it made the biggest difference. He now gets raw meat maybe 3 to 4 Oz at each meal. Along with brown rice and vegetables that I prepare for him myself. His skin issues have cleared up. He's been doing well on this diet now for about 8 month. Before he was just a miserable mess.
Posted By: CT8

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 08:43 PM

Ed it sounds like a +++ good diet and no grains !. Do you add any fish oil or flax seed oil? I have had dogs and horses and sensitive skin can be from other that a poor food diets lack of oil in the diet. Look it up
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: CT8
Ed it sounds like a +++ good diet and no grains !. Do you add any fish oil or flax seed oil? I have had dogs and horses and sensitive skin can be from other that a poor food diets lack of oil in the diet. Look it up


Thank you for reminding me! Jazzy also gets 1/2 of a fresh sardine (from my local Food Co-Op, meat department) every other day and both flax and hemp oil. I have the meat department cut the sardines in half. Some days she gets the "head" end and some days she gets the "tail" end. She likes the "crunch factor" of the head end I would say though. It's no match for the jaws of a German Shepherd.

smile

Ed
Posted By: Triple_Se7en

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/13/18 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
The recipe looks acidic. What brand/type dog food do you give her? That can make a big difference. I'm sure certain fats/oils would be good for her coat/skin. What breed is she?


My dog is a German Shepherd Dog.

Her diet, since you asked, is modeled after the canine ancestral diet. The goal is to try and achieve a diet comprised of 49% protein, 44% fat and 6% carbohydrate by using 75% meat, organs and bone, and 25% vegetables and fruit by volume. My dogs diet is comprised of 99% certified, Non-GMO, organic ingredients. It also includes certified organic raw heart and certified organic liver, both beef and chicken. Both are fed raw and are not cooked.

Every meal my dog eats is comprised on the following elements:

• Protein
• Vegetable and fruit
• Fatty acid supplement
• Bone meal
• Vitamin and supplement

The protein component of my dogs' diet is either cooked chicken, beef, turkey, fish or pork and eggs. The protein component is approximately 9 oz. of this mix with each meal.

The vegetable/fruit mix is comprised of a rotated variety of vegetables and fruit. A typical example is 2 lbs. broccoli, 12 oz. celery, 6 oz. blueberries, and 6 oz. watermelon. These ingredients are pureed in a VitaMix blender and Jazzy typically eats approximately 4 oz. of this mix with each meal.

To ensure complete vitamins and minerals, I custom grind (with a coffee grinder) specific portions of Himalayan pink salt , iron, copper, manganese, zinc, iodine, Vitamin D, dry Vitamin E and taurine as a vitamin mix that is included in every meal.

Ed


Right there is the probable cause for his sensitivity.
Feed him Lamb or Venison and Brown Rice recipes. I rotate three different brands and my dog's sensitivity has disappeared.
Taste Of The Wild
Acana
Nature's Recipe

Every time I switch, I run a 50-50 blend (old & new bags) for about 10 feedings, before switching 100% over to the new bag.
Needless for me to add that I buy 25+lb bags .... all dry food.
Posted By: Davejam

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/14/18 01:15 AM

Use a lot less vinegar, maybe a tablespoon depending on the pH of the rest of the mix.
To be clear the only reason to use vinegar is to adjust pH...so that is your control ingredient.
I also wonder about the witch hazel, make sure it is a good one without alcohol.
If the pH is still too low without any vinegar, then that starting shampoo is the problem.
Dawn dish soap has a pH around 7.

Also, the frequency that you bathe should be considered, can be fairly infrequent in my opinion.

I support doing the best one can for our furry friends, but doing too much of the wrong things can be detrimental.
I say this in regard to the diet as well. Be careful of all the iron via supplementation and organ meat.
Posted By: vavavroom

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/16/18 01:20 AM

In our all-male household me and my son use mild shampoo for hair and skin. Never had skin problems from the PH possibly being less than optimal.
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/18/18 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: vavavroom
In our all-male household me and my son use mild shampoo for hair and skin. Never had skin problems from the PH possibly being less than optimal.


I do that too, but dog skin it *typically* less forgiving of shampoos that are not pH balanced.

Ed
Posted By: vavavroom

Re: DIY Shampoo - Alkaline vs Acidic - 06/19/18 10:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: vavavroom
In our all-male household me and my son use mild shampoo for hair and skin. Never had skin problems from the PH possibly being less than optimal.


I do that too, but dog skin it *typically* less forgiving of shampoos that are not pH balanced.

Ed


Our pets don't use beauty products made for humans. ;-)
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