Mercedes delays EV release

[JeffKeryk]

After all the Tesla bashing and disbelief, they are years ahead of the big boys.
Surprising... Call it what you will, but what Musk and Tesla have done is nothing short of amazing.
According to Bloomberg...

Mercedes Delays Electric Debut After Jaguar and Audi SUVs Flop

 

[KevD47]

I don't think it's a pure technology issue, as in the big boys don't know how to do it or develop some amazing rocket science... Perspective: I saw in the article 111,000 Model 3's sold YTD, and from another source round numbers 17.2M total new cars sold in the US through November making Tesla's market share with all models included sub 1%.

Musk has been successful with marketing and creating a new segment in the market for EVs. I see a Tesla, I know it's different and always electric, and boy is it expensive and unique. Worth the price for recognition and status for those buyers. I see an Audi, Mercedes, Jag, etc. it's probably a gas engine, and I've seen em for years, nothing new. Oh, you say it's electric? Meh. Gas is $2.25 a gallon around the country. (forgive us OP in Cali)

For me it boils down to Tesla being more of a unique status/recognition sale. Don't put an electric drivetrain in my otherwise daily driver SUV that looks like the rest of your already known gasoline lineup until gas prices hit $5/gal, then the EV segment may be large enough for 10 players with 3-5 models each.

 

[PimTac]

Another gush thread by Elon.

 

[Ws6]

Lol, Tesla. I cant wait for them to finally go out of business or be bought out by someone who can run a company.

 

[DuckRyder]

And Mercedes already sold an electric car in the US.

 

[Audios]

Range does it for me, and everyone else I know, along with the ease and availability of chargers, which is why Tesla is the only one that can compete right now. Its not just the car its the infrastructure.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Audios
Range does it for me, and everyone else I know, along with the ease and availability of chargers, which is why Tesla is the only one that can compete right now. Its not just the car its the infrastructure.

This is true, but also why i cant own pure EV. Winter is cold, and things happen...

 

[Pelican]

They are all doomed, not the electric motor, but all the plug-ins !
Toyota fuel cell will dominate the market as soon they have built enough hydrogen refilling stations.
The Toyota being sold in California & BC, where there is infrastructure, have a range of over 500Km and it takes as long to refuel as a gasoline car.
All the manufacturers playing with hybrid & plug-ins are just buying time and do this to appease the various governments.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by KevD47
I don't think it's a pure technology issue, as in the big boys don't know how to do it or develop some amazing rocket science... Perspective: I saw in the article 111,000 Model 3's sold YTD, and from another source round numbers 17.2M total new cars sold in the US through November making Tesla's market share with all models included sub 1%.


IF the big boys knew how to do it then why cant they?

Sandy Munro disagrees -there is a large technology gap.

The KWH/ Mile consumed tell the story -no one can touch Tesla.

Saying there were 17.2 M vs teslas one model is highly misleading.

Auto sales are broken into numerous segments - trucks, suv, subcompact , luxury - and so on

When looking at segment performance Tesla slaughters its competition.


UD

 

[Audios]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by KevD47
I don't think it's a pure technology issue, as in the big boys don't know how to do it or develop some amazing rocket science... Perspective: I saw in the article 111,000 Model 3's sold YTD, and from another source round numbers 17.2M total new cars sold in the US through November making Tesla's market share with all models included sub 1%.


IF the big boys knew how to do it then why cant they?

Sandy Munro disagrees -there is a large technology gap.

The KWH/ Mile consumed tell the story -no one can touch Tesla.

Saying there were 17.2 M vs teslas one model is highly misleading.

Auto sales are broken into numerous segments - trucks, suv, subcompact , luxury - and so on

When looking at segment performance Tesla slaughters its competition.


UD







This exactly, that was a misleading statement, they carry about 1/5 of the market for the model 3. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/1...m-car-sales-in-usa-cleantechnica-report/

 

[Audios]

Originally Posted by Pelican
They are all doomed, not the electric motor, but all the plug-ins !
Toyota fuel cell will dominate the market as soon they have built enough hydrogen refilling stations.
The Toyota being sold in California & BC, where there is infrastructure, have a range of over 500Km and it takes as long to refuel as a gasoline car.
All the manufacturers playing with hybrid & plug-ins are just buying time and do this to appease the various governments.

BMW has been working on a hydrogen 7 since 2003, and they stopped due to infrastructure and costs associated with building the stations.

 

[KevD47]

I did say they created a sub-segment, and own it. The big boys can't differentiate enough from their core products to play in this boutique piece of the market. Until gas prices create a need for it and range improves, total battery EV will be a novelty.

 

[UncleDave]

If we compare ICE to EV - sure. I dont think anyones debating that - but how meaningful is that in context?


IF we take the total EV market as a segment vs comparing them to ICE vehicles then look at the each manufacturers sales -

- it completely flips to something like 99% tesla 1% everyone else.


UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by KevD47
I did say they created a sub-segment, and own it. The big boys can't differentiate enough from their core products to play in this boutique piece of the market. Until gas prices create a need for it and range improves, total battery EV will be a novelty.



Its outselling all BMWs in its class combined but its a novelty?

(this was said to be an impossibility by many)

UD

 

[KevD47]

A shrinking segment in of itself (sedans of any size), and one that sizes within the whole picture as a tiny piece, again back to the whole market, but we can continue to argue the luxury sedan market as massive, and half of that as not a novelty. I will say, Californians seem to be the ones speaking out here (you and OP), where I myself as a consumer may be able to justify the purchase over a BMW, if I wanted a sedan.

 

[UncleDave]

Any predictions on what you think the Model Y will do?

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6

This is true, but also why i cant own pure EV. Winter is cold, and things happen...


Seems to do OK in the cold......especially for a " novelty vehicle".

 

[JeffKeryk]

Bloomberg magazine reports business and market news; this article speaks to the disappoinging sales and range performance of luxury EVs as compared to Tesla.
Why can't the big boys deliver better results, specifically EV range? They are not even close to a base Model 3.
There is an error or misleading statement; Tesla sold about 80K Model 3 vehicles in Q3, about 97K total vehicles.

The premise of the article is major automobile manufacturers have not been able to counter Tesla's dominance in the EV market.
Quote:
"(Bloomberg) -- Mercedes-Benz is putting off the U.S. debut of its first electric vehicle by a year in the latest sign of just how difficult a time automakers are having replicating Tesla Inc.'s success."

For those who consider Tesla a niche market, the niche ir pretty large as the Model 3 has 21% of the small to mid size US lux market and is in the top 10 cars over all.
Model 3 Market Share

My post is meant to be analytical, not as a fan boy blast. I like all my cars or would not have so many.

 

[UncleDave]

I think Elons a dbag. Smart, successful but a dbag.

The numbers and performance are a totally separate thing - take the emotion out of it and the facts are what they are.

UD

 

[KevD47]

Netherlands gas = $6.96/gal avg. as of 12/9 and is 2x New Jersey in size making range less of an issue (I won't ignore all the countries of Europe to be included in size, to be fair, but mass transit/trains allow long trips different decisions for transportation than the US)

So yes, gas and range make for a different business case. Short trips make the weather issue moot.