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Quick Mac mini Update

Posted By: alarmguy

Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 02:50 PM

Well, I think I am a solid 10 weeks into my first ever Mac Computer, Mac mini i5 Computer with a new HP 24 inch display and new Cannon Image Class MF445DW.

As we know, after 25 years of using Windows I got sick of all the updates and problems, plus its gotten so full of stuff I dont need. Windows does everything but a master of none.

Anyway, my past posts on the subject have been good and bad regarding the New Mac mini.
First I happen to buy it just as Apple was doing its annual update and certain issues printing popped up until another updated fixed it.
I also had an issue, corrected by Apple after 3 phone calls (again, sometimes its just getting the right person) about my warranty getting registered. I bought from a certified Apple reseller and something wasn't properly entered or whatever. Its all good now.

Also, the new Canon printer had some funky things going on with it as well and it got frustrating, more or less, I had a new Computer, with new updated operating system and happened to buy a new printer that was so new the printer software itself was only weeks old.

ok, enough said, I am LOVING this Mac mini. As others pointed out, maybe my expectations were too high, no operating system is perfect. I was EXTREMELY impressed who quickly Apple answers the phone, like wow! Again, not that everyone who does knows what they are doing. *L*

With that said, I am constantly still to this day amazed at the speed of the MAC, I LOVE the simplicity of the operating system. Meaning not that its simple and cant do things but just seems so logical and professional. Not bloated with garbage,
When I turn this Mac on, too describe, I feel like I am getting in one of my sons BMWs, not my Dodge Durango or Wifes Mazda. *L*
It just feels precise. So much so, as I stated in the past and maybe more so now, I may complete the whole transition and move into the Apple world of cell phones by getting an iPhone for the first time in the almost 25 years of using cell phones.
(if I get one for Christmas *L*)
Posted By: vwmaniaman

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 03:13 PM

I have ubuntu on my MacBook Pro and 16G ram and 254SSD. What a screaming combo. I also have a new HP with Win 10 and an old Toshiba on Win 7. Wife has a 2 year old MacBook with Apple software. Hard to keep up with all of them. The Mac/Apple is very nice stuff. I always wanted a mini but my wife was too steeped in Windows since that was required when she was teaching.
Posted By: JLTD

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 03:21 PM

Once you go MAC, you never go back. I can't even begin to use a PC without cringing.
Posted By: Brons2

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by JLTD
Once you go MAC, you never go back. I can't even begin to use a PC without cringing.


I feel the same about the Mac. Can't even use it without cringing. But if you are happy with your machine, more power to you.

I'm typing this on a 13 year old HP desktop running CloudReady, a Chromebook like OS based on the Chromium open source project. Runs great. Machine has a Core 2 Duo E6550 - 2.33 Ghz, 8GB RAM, and a traditional hard drive.
Posted By: Miller88

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 05:31 PM

I think the windows 10 interface simplified a lot of complaints that people had with the windows 8 interface. At home I have a laptop running Linux Mint. It's quick, the interface is nice and simple, and it handles everything I need. At home I don't run anything windows specific that doesn't have a workaround. I appreciate how simple it is and the fact that it "just works".

Too much time having Windows and MS problems at work.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 05:43 PM

Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.

Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.
Posted By: Pelican

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.
Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.


Made the change when W10 came out and screwed up my laptop and am I glad I did!
Apple hardware is 1st rate and that's one of the reasons why it's more expensive.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 08:13 PM

Apples hardware is a actually junk, even in their pro lineup.
Chips literally coming off of the boards due to heat, solder corroding just from humidity in the air, constantly throttling etc.

Just because they have nice aluminum chassis, doesn't mean the insides are of the same quality.

On top of this, they're fighting tooth and nail with the small repair shops and the right to repair movement.

There was a CBC spot where they took their mac pro to one of the genius bars to get it fixed. They got quoted more than the price of new macbook and all data on the laptop would be lost.

They then took ot to an independent repair shop and it turned out to be a display ribbon cable not making full contact. It was fixed in like 5 minutes.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 08:27 PM

Another issue with apple, they flat out lie to their customers about ability to recover photos or data. If you're not backed up on iCloud, they will tell customers it is impossible to recover the data.

There are plenty of people on youtube alone that show they can fully or partially recover data in most cases and that apple is lying.

Not trying to sound like a hater, but what I'm trying to say be careful with any company. They all have good and bad.

Discussing both actually helps people make informed decisions.
Posted By: Miller88

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.

Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.



That is important. You spend over $1000 on a Mac with no 3rd party bloatware. The bloatware included on windows computers helps the manufacturer subsidize the cost of building it. A $159 acer that you can pick up at Walmart has a highly subsidized cost with bloatware and it is going to have the slowest possible mechanical hard disk that they can find. I have seen them with 4200 RPM drives, even.

At work we have older windows laptops. Even the Dell E5400s from 2008 can run Windows 10 very well with 4GB of ram and a SSD. Of course, we have done a lot of work to customize our image so there isn't even any included Windows bloatware with it.
Posted By: Y_K

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/26/19 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by JLTD
Once you go MAC, you never go back. I can't even begin to use a PC without cringing.


I went back twice, and the third time seems to be the last one. They all have funny and odd behaviour when you least expect it. Add to that corporate fuzzy logic.
Macs used to be superb and superior and a joy to use. Even opening one to upgrade a drive or RAM was enjoyable experience, but that was long time ago.

Good for you, if you like it so much, it is good that it is serving your needs well. It is a bigger hindrance in my usage though.
Posted By: Y_K

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 12:17 AM

Regardless of our bias, we have to be grateful to the folks who spend their money on things and give us their feedback, be it it something silly or motor oil! Thank you, alarmguy.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.
Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.


Made the change when W10 came out and screwed up my laptop and am I glad I did!
Apple hardware is 1st rate and that's one of the reasons why it's more expensive.


Yes, I agree!
After 25 years of Windows, Apple is a fresh breath of air.

Ps. to Y_K thanks for your comment, Im no different, I like and respect differing views too. I find learning exciting and have an open mind to real facts. I dont (learning not to) respond to comments based on nothing such as some others on this page, its all good!
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.
Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.


Made the change when W10 came out and screwed up my laptop and am I glad I did!
Apple hardware is 1st rate and that's one of the reasons why it's more expensive.


Yes, Windows 10 was the driving force for me to switch, had enough. I was ready for change. Priced into Apple is the whole experience and something I wanted to experience and now I wish I did it sooner in life. Also built into Apples price is they dont sell your information to the highest bidder, like anything related to google.

People think Android operating system is cheaper be it on a phone or computer, sure, its cheaper because you agree to let google sell the private information of you, your children and wife to third parties all over the world, highest bidder wins! Its a BIG business LOADED with HIGH paying jobs. So you are paying with your privacy. Google gives out free operating systems, puts you on a leash and studies you, your family and prostitutes your information.

Im in a position to pay with my wallet and dont need my or my family privacy to be sold so I can save a few hundred dollars. Geez! :o) Of all the money we spend in life, the difference is nothing.
The price is a bargain compared to the cost difference between a Mazda SUV and a BMW SUV. (nothing against Mazda, we own one and love it, son works for BMW so has two SUVs) IN both cases, whether computers or cars, if you can afford it, the experience is worth it and in Apples case, we are talking mere pennies.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 01:50 AM

Sorry for high jacking your thread alarmguy. I agree that Apple software experience is good, very good actually.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Another issue with apple, they flat out lie to their customers about ability to recover photos or data. If you're not backed up on iCloud, they will tell customers it is impossible to recover the data.

There are plenty of people on youtube alone that show they can fully or partially recover data in most cases and that apple is lying.

Not trying to sound like a hater, but what I'm trying to say be careful with any company. They all have good and bad.

Discussing both actually helps people make informed decisions.


Without digging into the specifics of cases:

Many times when Apple claims "unrecoverable" it's due to an issue with something called the T2 chip, which has been used in new Mac models introduced/redesigned since 2018.

The T2 chip is VERY tightly integrated into the on-board storage(which is no longer removable) and provides low level encryption. Some computers have ports on the logic board that allow Apple proprietary tools(available to Apple and certified independents) to interface directly and recover data. If there are serious board issues or issues with the T2 chip, though, chances are your data is not recoverable.

This is distinct from Macs even a few years older-like the 2015 13" MBP I just bought as a "travel" computer. Up to ~2017 or so, even computers that didn't OFFICIALLY have upgradeable/removeable storage(like the MBP/MBA) have a small "blade" SSD that can actually be removed. As an example, I can pull the drive out of a 2015 MBP, fit it to a PCIe adapter card-a $10 Ebay item-stick it in my 2012 Mac Pro, and read it or recover the data off of it(provided that it's not encrypted, or if it is encrypted I have the password for it). This is not an Apple-endorsed procedure, but is something I've done before at work when someone had a computer die and needed their data(and in a few cases got to keep the nice, fast PCIe SSD as a thank you prize-my Mac Pro boots off two separate such drives). I also like this since-on the secondary market-I was to save a lot of money buying a computer with the base amount of storage(128gb) and inexpensively upgrade it to a more reasonable amount.

On the whole I don't necessarily like the use of the T2 chip combined with soldered SSDs, but it does offer an extra level of security.

Still, though, I will also add that storage is cheap these days and there are built-in solutions(Time Machine) as well as 3rd party solutions(Carbon Copy Cloner and Super Duper) that make back-ups seamless. In particular, Time Machine is very slick-especially for a desktop-as you can leave it plugged in all the time and it just silently runs in the background and makes hourly backups. Time Machine was a good idea when it was introduced in 2007, and the past 12 years haven't changed that.

Of course, I also have to put in a plug for my 2012 Mac Pro, where I dedicate one of its four built-in drive bays to a 2tb Time Machine drive and a second 4tb drive to more crude "drag and drop" back-up storage.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Apples hardware is a actually junk, even in their pro lineup.
Chips literally coming off of the boards due to heat, solder corroding just from humidity in the air, constantly throttling etc.

Just because they have nice aluminum chassis, doesn't mean the insides are of the same quality.

On top of this, they're fighting tooth and nail with the small repair shops and the right to repair movement.

There was a CBC spot where they took their mac pro to one of the genius bars to get it fixed. They got quoted more than the price of new macbook and all data on the laptop would be lost.

They then took ot to an independent repair shop and it turned out to be a display ribbon cable not making full contact. It was fixed in like 5 minutes.


This is something we can debate all day, and Apple does have their failings in this area.

One important thing, though, is that they do by and large use premium components, especially CPUs. Now that the chintzy retina MacBook is gone, the entire line up end-to-end uses Core i series processors. You can't exactly compare to the $150 Wal-Mart specials using Celerons or their AMD equivalents, and the retail price(yes, I know Apple and all other manufacturers don't actually pay this) of a Core i CPU can be close to what one of the budget models runs. As an example, the 13" MacBook air in base trim, the least expensive laptop Apple sells, uses an i5-8210Y CPU. Intel lists the MSRP for this CPU as $281. The top of the line 16" MBP uses an i9-9980HK, with an MSRP of nearly $600.

Solder issues have been an industry wide problem related to the use of lead-free solder. Some of the things like GPU issues that have plagued multiple 15" and 17" MBPs(I'm using one of the few problem-free ones to type this post-a 2012 non-Retina) are a supplier issue that-again-affected all laptops using those GPUs to varying extents.

I won't argue about heat, as Johnny Ive's unhealthy obsession with thinness combined with Apple sometimes prioritizing quiet operation over adequate fan speeds can make computers-at their defaults-run on the bleeding edge of thermal performance. I use iStat Menus to monitor my system temperatures, and when things start getting toasty I will override the default fan settings and crank the fans up to full speed(6000 rpms on my main laptop). The extra noise is worth the trade-off for a cooler system. With that said, sitting here with Firefox open along with a Lightroom(a moderately "heavy" program) my temperatures are all under 60ºC and the fans are at their virtually silent "idle" speed of 2K rpms.

Apple has been guilty of prioritizing design over thermal considerations. The Cube famously omitted a fan entirely, and ran uncomfortably hot because of it(I have a few of them, and all have fans installed). In the Cube 2.0, the 2013 Mac Pro(AKA the Trash Can), Apple basically admitted a few years after the fact that they'd painted themselves into a thermal corner and couldn't upgrade the design any further.

At the same time, the first hex core i9 MBPs were known to throttle, but IIRC this was fixed with a software update. I don't recall exactly what the issue was, but I do think it was satisfactorily resolved. The computers shouldn't have been rolled out with the issue, but at least it was fixed.
Posted By: HangFire

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by JLTD
Once you go MAC, you never go back. I can't even begin to use a PC without cringing.

Lovely screen. Good CPU's now but for years Mac's were stuck on last-last-gen Intel CPU's.

Mac Book Pro have the world's worst keyboard, chiclets. Hated every moment of it. Used a USB keyboard even on the couch. Changed jobs and SO happy to have a Thinkpad keyboard now. Actually usable for touch typing.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by JLTD
Once you go MAC, you never go back. I can't even begin to use a PC without cringing.

Lovely screen. Good CPU's now but for years Mac's were stuck on last-last-gen Intel CPU's.

Mac Book Pro have the world's worst keyboard, chiclets. Hated every moment of it. Used a USB keyboard even on the couch. Changed jobs and SO happy to have a Thinkpad keyboard now. Actually usable for touch typing.


I actually love the chiclet/butterfly keyboard, but I can see why others would hate it.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by HangFire

Mac Book Pro have the world's worst keyboard, chiclets. Hated every moment of it. Used a USB keyboard even on the couch. Changed jobs and SO happy to have a Thinkpad keyboard now. Actually usable for touch typing.


I will admit to being a bit of a keyboard snob, and actually a buckling spring Unicomp Spacesaver M on my work Mac Pro(1,1). My MP 5,1 at home has an Apple Extended Keyboard(Alps switches) connected via a Griffin iMate(ADB-USB). I'd like to get another Spaceaver M to use on it.

I actually don't terribly mind the original scissor-type chicklet as used on 2008~2015 MacBook Pros. It's not my favorite laptop keyboard I've ever used(the Titanium PowerBook and 12" PowerBook might get those titles, along with some of the old 100 series PowerBooks, but that's a different topic) but is respectable. It has a decent amount of travel and is crisp enough for me to get good feedback from it. I actually have some worn-through keycaps on a since-replaced keyboard on my 2012 MBP, something that takes a fair bit of typing to do, so I do think it's fair to say that I have put some mileage on the keyboard design. Weirdly enough, I've actually consistently found the 17" models to have the most crisp keys.

I find the butterfly, first introduced in the Retina MacBook and since migrated to almost all other laptops, terrible. It has so little travel that I often find myself uncomfortably bottoming the keys out. They also definitely feel "mushy" to me. I admit to not having a ton of typing time on them, but I don't hear a lot of complements from others on them.

I do think though that Apple has finally admitted defeat on that keyboard, as the new 16" has gone back to scissors. Playing with one in the store the other day, it still didn't have as much travel as I like, but is a big improvement both in feel and travel as compared to the 13"(with butterflys) that was sitting next to it at the store.
Posted By: Y_K

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 10:27 AM

Kids, I use SUN Type 5C keyboard as I type this that I adapted myself for HP Z workstation series. I actually remember when Apple had really good hardware, all SCSI drives, cable-free design, opening up a case and upgrade a component was a breeze and a joy compared to the ugly and dangerous cases of PCs with their burrs and sharp edges. And you could take a hard drive from a cheap pizza-box Quadra and swap it into the top of the line desktop - things would work right away. And that could be a generic SCSI drive. Then, the suits in Cupertino and their Living God Jobs decided to kill clones, Be OS and lost a lot of vendour support, from hardware to software. I remember when Global Village announced they would stop hardware support for Apple, and it snowballed from there. Then they started jumping CPU chips, busses and controllers, cutting corners on the substance while keeping up appearances... There is always a new generation of suckers on the conveyer belt.
I still have an Apple pizza box, running a server on NetBSD for my internal network.
Posted By: HangFire

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 01:42 PM

SUN had great keyboards.

I have to say, never met a MacBook that didn't have better speakers than any PC notebook, including HP's multimedia series. However good sound is only a BlueTooth connection away.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 04:27 PM

Perhaps we have different standards of keyboard design, and I will freely admit to not having a ton of Sun experience.

With that said, I have an UltraSparc 5 in my office with a 5c keyboard connected to it(I just got up and looked at the model number, since I didn't know it off the top of my head). Honesty, to me, it's a pretty uninspring keyboard with the typical mushy rubber dome feel.

Looking around here, I also have a few SGI keyboards(and that wasn't exactly inexpensive hardware new). The one on my Octane is a PS/2 keyboard that is branded SGI, It's about the same as any other 90s rubber dome, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually a Logitech. The Iris Indigo uses an SGI proprietary board, and playing with it, I thought it felt like an Alps. Popping a cap off shows that it is indeed cream Alps, the same as the Apple AEK/AEK2 I like so well. It actually looks quite a bit like an Apple AEK also.

I'll take my mechanical Model M or Apple mechanicals, thank you.
Posted By: Y_K

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 06:13 PM

Apple used to have very good keyboards as well.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 11/27/19 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Y_K
Apple used to have very good keyboards as well.


Everything up to the Apple Design of the 90s was fantastic, and most of the Mac keyboards prior to that used either cream Alps switches or their Mitsumi clones.

Even the Apple Design KB is somewhat variable. It's a rubber dome with a "slider"(like the Sun 5c). I went through and cataloged a bunch by country of origin a while back and my subjective opinion of their key feel. I found that the Mexican made ones were universally bad, the Thailand ones universally good, and other countries hit-or-miss(I have a list somewhere on them). Somehow or another, I ended up with a pile of them, and based my observations on probably 30 examples.
Posted By: SubLGT

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/04/19 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
...I find the butterfly, first introduced in the Retina MacBook and since migrated to almost all other laptops, terrible. It has so little travel that I often find myself uncomfortably bottoming the keys out. They also definitely feel "mushy" to me. I admit to not having a ton of typing time on them, but I don't hear a lot of complements from others on them.

I do think though that Apple has finally admitted defeat on that keyboard, as the new 16" has gone back to scissors. Playing with one in the store the other day, it still didn't have as much travel as I like, but is a big improvement both in feel and travel as compared to the 13"(with butterflys) that was sitting next to it at the store.


Apple has failed to block a class action lawsuit regarding the butterfly keyboards.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rfly-keyboard-class-action-idUSKBN1Y629A

Quote
...(Reuters) - A federal judge on Monday rejected Apple Inc’s (AAPL.O) bid to dismiss a proposed class action lawsuit by customers who said it knew and concealed how the “butterfly” keyboards on its MacBook laptop computers were prone to failure.

...Customers claimed that their MacBook, MacBook Pro and MacBook Air laptop keyboards suffered from sticky keys, unresponsive keys and keystrokes that failed to register when tiny amounts of dust or debris accumulated under or near keys.

...They also said Apple’s service program was inadequate because the Cupertino, California-based company often provided replacement keyboards that had the same problems.

...The lawsuit covers purchasers of model year 2015 or later MacBook laptops, and model year 2016 or later MacBook Pros laptops. It seeks a variety of damages for violations of several states’ consumer protection laws.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/07/19 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Sorry for high jacking your thread alarmguy. I agree that Apple software experience is good, very good actually.


Hey, Ive been meaning to say, all good, thanks!

Lets face it, pick one company, any company in any industry and there will be people who do not like it.

For me, personally, I think, after using windows for 25 years on every computer brand imaginable including being the go to source ALL the time for family and friends to fix issues and buying advice, as well as changing hard drives, motherboards (in the earlier days) that my experience may help someone.

Im now so impressed with this Mac mini (and I agree, nothing is perfect or right for everyone) but kind of hoping to completely switch platforms now that I have the Mac Desktop and carry that over to my first iPhone that I think, MAYBE my wife is going to get me for Christmas, honestly dont know.
Been at work all week, turned this thing on this morning, still amazes me how fast the mini is.

I can see at times a purpose for Windows computers but we have so many in the house it doesnt matter, the one example I can think of is my workplace benefits election program will only run on Edge at home, cant use the Mac. Of course I could do that at work too but still .. .anyway, just use my wifes computer or any of the other 3 windows computers I have in the house.

The one negative I find and that goes for ANY product if you had a choice I guess it would be nice to have some ports on the front, but Apple likes styling over function and that is ok, no big deal but Im a function over styling person and to have some USB C ports one the front would have been great, no big deal.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/07/19 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
[quote=KrisZ]
The one negative I find and that goes for ANY product if you had a choice I guess it would be nice to have some ports on the front, but Apple likes styling over function and that is ok, no big deal but Im a function over styling person and to have some USB C ports one the front would have been great, no big deal.


The last computer Apple made with front ports was what many would argue was their last true "pro" computer-the "cheesgrater" tower that stretched from the first generation G5(2003) and continued up to the 2012 Mac Pro. I still use my Mac Pro 5,1(2012), and it has an extremely useful 2x USB and 2x FW800.

Apple also embraced USB wholesale back in the late 1990s, but has always-to me-been rather stingy with their ports. 2 has, by and large, been the norm although in later years they did stretch that to 3 or 4 on desktops and also 3 on a few specific laptops.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/08/19 05:48 PM

2018 Mac Mini version-

Four Thunderbolt 3 USB-C ports.
Two USB-A ports.
HDMI 2.0 port.
Gigabit Ethernet port (upgradeable to 10Gb)
3.5mm audio jack.
Plus Bluetooth and Wi-Fi of course
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/08/19 11:23 PM

Okay, guess I'd forgotten that Apple actually got semi-generous with USB on the Mini(it's about time). The older Minis generally had 4 USB Type A. The "trash can" Pro has 6x USB A.

The MacBook Pros did get 4 USB-C in the touchbar models, but IMO that's still too few given how much those ports do.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/14/19 02:06 PM

** Final update ** (unless something goes wrong .. ha ha ...)

Current OS is Catalina Version 10.15.2

Im just in awe every time I log on.
Its just so stupid fast it still amazes me every website I go to,"click" and its there, amazing .. I would go out of my mind if I had to go back to a slower computer :o)

Ill report any issues that may come up in the future.
Posted By: loneryder

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/18/19 06:33 PM

Same here. I got so sick of Win 10 trying to do everything you did not want. I was looking at refurbed Mac laptops. They were expensive and then I saw refurbed iMacs were cheaper. After a little research, I discovered that if you get one of the late 2013 issues, you can run the latest OS. I bought one for just under $400 and it looked new. I updated to Catalina and have enjoyed learning how and where to find things. It has a 1 tb HD and a 256 mb ssd. It boots up and runs very fast.
Fast forward to my winter place in FL where I just bought another one to leave down here. $370with no marks on it. Updated to Catalina. This one runs slower with out the SSD.
I don't need to carry my computer around so the desktop is fine for me. I have an iPad for that. I'm 71 and hate to have to learn new technology but I'm doing fine with the Mac, iPad, and iPhone.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/21/19 02:25 PM

Yes, after decades of computing, the Mac mini has been the best decision I have made.
Just loving it, lots of fun. Im off weekends, after working on corporate computers all week long I love coming home and firing this thing up, its just so darn fast, I cant take it!
Flipping through screens on the internet just blows me away!

Granted all the Win 10 computers in my house do not have SSD.
Posted By: SubLGT

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/24/19 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
** Final update ** (unless something goes wrong .. ha ha ...)

Current OS is Catalina Version 10.15.2


I will be installing a Crucial MX500 SSD in my Mac Mini (2012) and was thinking of doing a clean install with Catalina. I researched Catalina on various Mac forums, and found a lot of very unhappy people. A few serious bugs (e.g. requiring logic board replacement !), and a lot of minor bugs. Some were calling Catalina the Mac version of Windows Vista, because of the high number of bugs.

So I will be installing Mojave (10.14.6)
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/24/19 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by SubLGT
Originally Posted by alarmguy
** Final update ** (unless something goes wrong .. ha ha ...)

Current OS is Catalina Version 10.15.2


I will be installing a Crucial MX500 SSD in my Mac Mini (2012) and was thinking of doing a clean install with Catalina. I researched Catalina on various Mac forums, and found a lot of very unhappy people. A few serious bugs (e.g. requiring logic board replacement !), and a lot of minor bugs. Some were calling Catalina the Mac version of Windows Vista, because of the high number of bugs.

So I will be installing Mojave (10.14.6)


Hmmm ... being new to MAC I dont feel qualified to answer, except for me, it works perfect.
I am skeptical of forums, at times, because we know people who have issues will be in the forums and makes one wonder how many issues are really out there.
But I do understand your concern at the same time if you search Mojave of course you will also find issues or any operating system for that matter, still I am not discounting what you are saying and with a mini 2012 maybe you would be better off with the Mojave?
Posted By: SubLGT

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/24/19 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
....But I do understand your concern at the same time if you search Mojave of course you will also find issues or any operating system for that matter, still I am not discounting what you are saying and with a mini 2012 maybe you would be better off with the Mojave?


I would upgrade from Mojave to Catalina 6-8 months from now, if Apple gets their act together and makes some serious progress on taming the bugs in Catalina. Apple charges a premium price for their hardware, and should offer a premium software experience, like they used to do. (I have been using Mac computers for 20+ years).
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/24/19 12:37 PM

Well, for me, after 24 years of using Windows/MS products I can testify I am having a premium experience with my Mac mini Catalina computer!

Thank goodness for that, I did have a rocky start but was unsure if the brand new model Canon printer ( so new the printer software was only available the same month I bought the printer) or Apple was at fault all I know after an update it all started working that way it should.
and .. .being a bought it new from an authorized retailer, registration process was messed up but got straightened out. (should have not happened but it did)

Other then that, for me personally exactly what I need, blows Windows away in speed.
With that said, there is no one size fits all, the Mac is a perfect fit for what I need. It doesnt mean a lower cost or same cost Windows computer isnt better for someone else. I just got tired of all the crap on Windows, way, way, way too much of everything that I dont need or use.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/24/19 02:42 PM

I don't like Catalina for two reasons: I can no longer run 32 bit apps and it gets rid of Dashboard. The former is a daily use thing for me, while the latter is a many times a day thing.

Funny enough, the second point is a bit contentious on the Mac forums I participate in. The opinions are either "I use Dashboard all the time so losing it is a deal killer for me" or "I don't use it, so I'm glad it's gone." (funny that no one seems to say "I don't use it, but I'm sorry it's not there for the people who do").

In any case, I have Catalina on my backup-to-a-backup 2012 MBA, and it runs fine in my experience. I haven't had any stability issues, but I'm sticking with Mojave or earlier on my primary use computers.
Posted By: SubLGT

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/24/19 06:23 PM

The 2 most serious bugs with Catalina :

Bricking of your Mac:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250715174?page=1
https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/24/efi-firmware/

Loss of emails:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250716550?page=1
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2019/10/11/mail-data-loss-in-macos-10-15/
Quote
...I upgraded to Catalina. A clean install. I have now discovered that 90,000 emails are missing, dating from 2000. The mail folder size is now 2.7GB as compared with the usual >35GB in size. For example, we are missing our email records of invoices sent out to customers. That's how we discovered the problem ... we tried to find the old records (messages) in Mail. The Mail record is no longer reliable. We cannot full tell what is there and what is missing. Fortunately we have an earlier backup. But the time and effort now required to rebuild the Mail database is significant. And, at this point, we can't trust Catalina to maintain it's integrity...


I believe a Catalina update prevented more Macs getting bricked.
But the loss of emails bug has not yet been addressed, AFAIK. It was not even mentioned in the documentation for the latest 10.15.2 update.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/26/19 12:37 PM

Glad I dont have 90,000 emails that I need and not backed up?

Anyway, reading the links you posted I think everyone was able to restore their lost emails assuming the reports are true which I am sure they are.
But, not a concern of mine and honestly there is a "story" out there for every operating system update, including my own Windows 10 updates on my new (at the time) HP computer.

I tend not to believe many self made websites or posts in forums that use the words "I’ve heard a bunch of reports of data loss", more or less I am a hard numbers person, percentages of issues compared to the number of updates.

I am one, due to using Windows for 25 years, very skeptical about installing any updates on any computer (or cell phone) until I know it works.
I did do the Catalina right away though and maybe in the future I would hold off a bit.

Bottom line, we are still in the dark ages, 25 years from now, if not sooner, the year 2019 will still look like the start of the computing era.
Much like the start with the invention of the light bulb to homes having electricity to iceless "ice boxes" known as refrigerators. Im not quite sure we are up to the "refrigerator" stage yet.

:o)
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/26/19 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.
Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.


Made the change when W10 came out and screwed up my laptop and am I glad I did!
Apple hardware is 1st rate and that's one of the reasons why it's more expensive.


Yes, Windows 10 was the driving force for me to switch, had enough. I was ready for change. Priced into Apple is the whole experience and something I wanted to experience and now I wish I did it sooner in life. Also built into Apples price is they dont sell your information to the highest bidder, like anything related to google.

People think Android operating system is cheaper be it on a phone or computer, sure, its cheaper because you agree to let google sell the private information of you, your children and wife to third parties all over the world, highest bidder wins! Its a BIG business LOADED with HIGH paying jobs. So you are paying with your privacy. Google gives out free operating systems, puts you on a leash and studies you, your family and prostitutes your information.

Im in a position to pay with my wallet and dont need my or my family privacy to be sold so I can save a few hundred dollars. Geez! :o) Of all the money we spend in life, the difference is nothing.
The price is a bargain compared to the cost difference between a Mazda SUV and a BMW SUV. (nothing against Mazda, we own one and love it, son works for BMW so has two SUVs) IN both cases, whether computers or cars, if you can afford it, the experience is worth it and in Apples case, we are talking mere pennies.


The difference is more like hundreds of dollars. I understand people that are concerned about privacy, but personally it doesn't matter to me because I have nothing to hide and the only thing I notice as a result is more relevant ads when I browse the internet.
Posted By: Eric Smith

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/26/19 02:12 PM

After reading this thread makes me feel bad neglecting my late 2012 Mini i7 16Gb .. I think it's a late 2012 anyways. It only really gets used for a iTunes server these days. The 10 year old Mac Pro with a SSD/ Xubuntu just seems like a better performer. It's time for the SSD upgrade I've been holding off on. Not even sure what OS is on it.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/27/19 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Meh, for the price they are charging, they are just that, meh, IMO.
What they're doing well is shipping their stuff bloatware free, where windows is usually loaded by third party junk up the wazoo.
Get a clean win10 install on similar hardware and it will run just as well.


Made the change when W10 came out and screwed up my laptop and am I glad I did!
Apple hardware is 1st rate and that's one of the reasons why it's more expensive.


Yes, Windows 10 was the driving force for me to switch, had enough. I was ready for change. Priced into Apple is the whole experience and something I wanted to experience and now I wish I did it sooner in life. Also built into Apples price is they dont sell your information to the highest bidder, like anything related to google.

People think Android operating system is cheaper be it on a phone or computer, sure, its cheaper because you agree to let google sell the private information of you, your children and wife to third parties all over the world, highest bidder wins! Its a BIG business LOADED with HIGH paying jobs. So you are paying with your privacy. Google gives out free operating systems, puts you on a leash and studies you, your family and prostitutes your information.

Im in a position to pay with my wallet and dont need my or my family privacy to be sold so I can save a few hundred dollars. Geez! :o) Of all the money we spend in life, the difference is nothing.
The price is a bargain compared to the cost difference between a Mazda SUV and a BMW SUV. (nothing against Mazda, we own one and love it, son works for BMW so has two SUVs) IN both cases, whether computers or cars, if you can afford it, the experience is worth it and in Apples case, we are talking mere pennies.


The difference is more like hundreds of dollars. I understand people that are concerned about privacy, but personally it doesn't matter to me because I have nothing to hide and the only thing I notice as a result is more relevant ads when I browse the internet.


You know, I used to think so too but its not at all hundreds of dollars.
All premium cell phones are in the same price range as Apple and in many cases exceeding the price.

Example, in my quest to dump Google from my life, I just got my first iPhone for Christmas an XR... the price around $600+ is hundreds less then offerings from other cell phone makers that run on Googles cheap free operating system.


Same goes for premium computers.

Its all good, we all buy what makes us happy in life.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/27/19 04:55 PM


Made the change when W10 came out and screwed up my laptop and am I glad I did!
Apple hardware is 1st rate and that's one of the reasons why it's more expensive.[/quote]

Yes, Windows 10 was the driving force for me to switch, had enough. I was ready for change. Priced into Apple is the whole experience and something I wanted to experience and now I wish I did it sooner in life. Also built into Apples price is they dont sell your information to the highest bidder, like anything related to google.

People think Android operating system is cheaper be it on a phone or computer, sure, its cheaper because you agree to let google sell the private information of you, your children and wife to third parties all over the world, highest bidder wins! Its a BIG business LOADED with HIGH paying jobs. So you are paying with your privacy. Google gives out free operating systems, puts you on a leash and studies you, your family and prostitutes your information.

Im in a position to pay with my wallet and dont need my or my family privacy to be sold so I can save a few hundred dollars. Geez! :o) Of all the money we spend in life, the difference is nothing.
The price is a bargain compared to the cost difference between a Mazda SUV and a BMW SUV. (nothing against Mazda, we own one and love it, son works for BMW so has two SUVs) IN both cases, whether computers or cars, if you can afford it, the experience is worth it and in Apples case, we are talking mere pennies.[/quote]

The difference is more like hundreds of dollars. I understand people that are concerned about privacy, but personally it doesn't matter to me because I have nothing to hide and the only thing I notice as a result is more relevant ads when I browse the internet. [/quote]

You know, I used to think so too but its not at all hundreds of dollars.
All premium cell phones are in the same price range as Apple and in many cases exceeding the price.

Example, in my quest to dump Google from my life, I just got my first iPhone for Christmas an XR... the price around $600+ is hundreds less then offerings from other cell phone makers that run on Googles cheap free operating system.


Same goes for premium computers.

Its all good, we all buy what makes us happy in life.
[/quote]

My girlfriend has the iPhone xr. She loves it but somehow my $200 used OnePlus 5 gets all the camera duty because it gets better pictures (especially the selfies for our couples pictures) than her iPhone. This phone was like $500 brand new 2.5 years ago.

She can't figure out my phone and I can't figure out hers. I'm not saying $600 is a bad price but it has a lower resolution screen than my 1080p AMOLED OnePlus (my girlfriend won't notice the difference) and for that price I would pick one of many other Android options. Pricing will be different here than where you are but Samsung or apple both price way above other manufacturers so I'm probably not buying either of them anytime soon. I've owned both and prefer stock Android phones.

People I know that will only use an iPhone (my girlfriend) still won't spend the price premium to have an iPad or a Mac. Once again I'm not saying they are bad but they are definitely more money whether you want to admit or not.

Right now I could afford to buy a 7 year old Thinkpad (like the one I got free from work) or a 10+ year old MacBook. I will be getting an older machine with lower specs if I choose the Mac. I've spent lots of time browsing the local ads and looking at pricing just out of interest.

Sorry this is getting off topic but what some people on here think is like chump change is a significant amount of money for some of us.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/28/19 04:34 PM

^^^^
Yeah, you are off subject and that's ok.
Like I said throughout this thread, we all spend money on things important to us, anything in life, not just computers and phones so do not mistake my posts as anything but, yet for some reason you are coming in here commenting on a product because you think is too expensive but you are wrong on that, even if it was true, do you go to the automotive part of BITOG and down talk cars that are more expensive then what you own?

Most of all, you are off base on the cost of Apple vs Samsung Android Devices and whatever brand you have.
Many models of Samsung Android phones using the free Android operating system are far more expensive then a new iPhone XR.
Same goes for the phone you speak off, your One Plus cost $500 new, iPhone XR is $600 new and far better operating system that respects privacy.

You state you bought a 2.5 old used model for $200 yet you can buy a brand new 2.5 or 3 year old iPhone 6s+ for $100.

Like I say, we buy what makes us happy.
Im thrilled, just popped the SIM card from my Huawei cell phone into my new iPhone XR, and now Im completely on the IOS platform, from home computer to cell phone.
My wife just popped her SIM card into the Huawei I just abandoned, It was the Mate SE model and is a FANTASTIC Android device that I paid $200 new and now in possession of my wife who is now upgraded from her $99 Huawei.

:o)
Posted By: dogememe

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/28/19 04:50 PM

I started with Apple products (rich uncle) but started working in the computer industry in high school. First I switched to PCs (Windows) and then I stopped with the iPhones... Switched to Android, then Windows Phone, then back to Android.

I won a free iPad last year. The really expensive one. Beautiful piece of hardware but I sold it to my coworker because iOS or iPad OS or whatever they call it this week is so, so bad. In a quest to be simple they make everything 6x more complicated than it needs to be.

You won't find any Apple products in my life. Now I primarily use my computers for gaming, web development, etc. And I never go "I wish I had a Mac!"

I prefer to use my desktop workstation but most of the time I'm using one of my laptops. I have a ThinkPad T430 (yes, it's old but it works fine) and a Getac rugged laptop (think Panasonic Toughbook but cheaper) and Apple makes nothing this durable or reliable.

Plus, ThinkPads can be upgraded and repaired. I bought three broken ThinkPad T430 on eBay, and now I've got the one I use, I gave my mother one, and I sold the third one on eBay for parts. It took me like two hours from start to finish to completely disassemble and rebuild three laptops and install the OS.

Sure, most new ultra-thin Windows laptops that compete with Apple laptops are not easily serviceable but generally they are still more repairable and upgradeable than a similarly specced Mac, for hundreds of dollars less!

Other reasons people buy Apple computers... "Security" well yes 15 years ago they were more secure because why bother trying to write malware for a system that had tiny marketshare and was hardly ever used by enterprise, while now Macs are used by more people and more businesses and they aren't any more secure. Sure the Unix core of Mac OS is technically more secure but Apple hasn't invested anywhere near as much into securing the final product as Microsoft.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/28/19 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
^^^^
Yeah, you are off subject and that's ok.
Like I said throughout this thread, we all spend money on things important to us, anything in life, not just computers and phones so do not mistake my posts as anything but, yet for some reason you are coming in here commenting on a product because you think is too expensive but you are wrong on that, even if it was true, do you go to the automotive part of BITOG and down talk cars that are more expensive then what you own?

Most of all, you are off base on the cost of Apple vs Samsung Android Devices and whatever brand you have.
Many models of Samsung Android phones using the free Android operating system are far more expensive then a new iPhone XR.
Same goes for the phone you speak off, your One Plus cost $500 new, iPhone XR is $600 new and far better operating system that respects privacy.

You state you bought a 2.5 old used model for $200 yet you can buy a brand new 2.5 or 3 year old iPhone 6s+ for $100.

Like I say, we buy what makes us happy.
Im thrilled, just popped the SIM card from my Huawei cell phone into my new iPhone XR, and now Im completely on the IOS platform, from home computer to cell phone.
My wife just popped her SIM card into the Huawei I just abandoned, It was the Mate SE model and is a FANTASTIC Android device that I paid $200 new and now in possession of my wife who is now upgraded from her $99 Huawei.

:o)


My OnePlus 5 was actually $220 Canadian, so well under $200 US in like new condition. 128gb 8gb of RAM. My girlfriend bought the iPhone xr 64gb to replace her iPhone 6s 32gb. I could have replaced the screen on her old phone and used a slow, laggy, iPhone that lasts half a day on battery and has no storage space (I've used half of my 128gb) if I was really hard up, but I want to use a phone that is useful for me. I drag and drop a ton of files onto my phone as a flash drive to transfer to the laptop and I like that my battery lasts all day long. I use my headphone jack almost every day and don't want to carry another adaptor.

Also when my OnePlus was new 2.5 years ago the only cheaper iPhones were I believe the iPhone se. My mother in law has it and it's not great. She complains about the camera, she ran out of storage space and the battery is always dead.

I'm still not trying to say you're wrong to like apple products but your comparisons were a bit off base. If I was to get an iPhone I'd want one of the top of the line ones with at least a 1080p AMOLED screen and that's nowhere near my price range.

Would I try an older MacBook if I got a good deal on it? Sure, I'd like to. But it wouldn't make a lot of sense for me because of the software we use at work that probably only runs on Windows. That and the old Thinkpad t530 is working awesome on Windows 10. The only issue I had was the edge browser froze up so I installed chrome and never tried edge again.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/28/19 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by dogememe
I started with Apple products (rich uncle) but started working in the computer industry in high school. First I switched to PCs (Windows) and then I stopped with the iPhones... Switched to Android, then Windows Phone, then back to Android.

I won a free iPad last year. The really expensive one. Beautiful piece of hardware but I sold it to my coworker because iOS or iPad OS or whatever they call it this week is so, so bad. In a quest to be simple they make everything 6x more complicated than it needs to be.

You won't find any Apple products in my life. Now I primarily use my computers for gaming, web development, etc. And I never go "I wish I had a Mac!"

I prefer to use my desktop workstation but most of the time I'm using one of my laptops. I have a ThinkPad T430 (yes, it's old but it works fine) and a Getac rugged laptop (think Panasonic Toughbook but cheaper) and Apple makes nothing this durable or reliable.

Plus, ThinkPads can be upgraded and repaired. I bought three broken ThinkPad T430 on eBay, and now I've got the one I use, I gave my mother one, and I sold the third one on eBay for parts. It took me like two hours from start to finish to completely disassemble and rebuild three laptops and install the OS.

Sure, most new ultra-thin Windows laptops that compete with Apple laptops are not easily serviceable but generally they are still more repairable and upgradeable than a similarly specced Mac, for hundreds of dollars less!

Other reasons people buy Apple computers... "Security" well yes 15 years ago they were more secure because why bother trying to write malware for a system that had tiny marketshare and was hardly ever used by enterprise, while now Macs are used by more people and more businesses and they aren't any more secure. Sure the Unix core of Mac OS is technically more secure but Apple hasn't invested anywhere near as much into securing the final product as Microsoft.


i went the opposite direction LOL

First computer I ever used was a Commodore my mom brought home from the school board. They switched to Macs and later I was playing with the IIe and eventually the first gen Powerbook. During this period my dad bought an 8088, so that was my first real computer (still have it). I went through numerous PC's after that, was building gaming rigs for friends and was a user of Linux and BSD in the mid 90's, downloading it on dial-up for days at a time. I had previous cut my teeth on Unix in the early 90's while in Grade 9, attending the local University, experimenting with DEC Alpha Unix but also VAX, OS/2...etc.

When my T420 work notebook motherboard failed I ended up getting a MBP to replace it. I'm still using this computer now, years later. I ended up selling off my home gaming rig and use an old Mac Pro desktop at present, as I had both but simply preferred using the Mac for day-to-day activities. CLI work on Cisco IOS doesn't care what OS you are doing it from and I have a Parallels copy of Windows 10 on both systems for those rarely used Windows-only applications.

Phone-wise, I started with Blackberry, went to an iPhone, then Android, then Windows phone, then Android again and then back to iPhone where I've been for the last several years. The device experience, while it lacks a lot of the customizability of Android, is less buggy and with the rest of my stuff in the Apple ecosystem, sticking with Apple is decidedly more convenient. Recent privacy concerns with Google as well as the Android phone manufacturers like Huawei has resulted in me transitioning all my kids off of Android devices as well. We've had several iPads here too, and while expensive, have greatly outlasted the useful life of comparable Android units purchased around the same timeframe. I was one of the people that ended up with the Lenovo Think Android tablets, which received no future support or subsequent OS releases, and thus becoming completely useless in quite short order. An iPad of the same generation is still usable today. Setting aside the privacy issues, that's probably my biggest gripe with Android: unless you have a Google-branded device that runs unadulterated Android, the phone or tablet manufacturers tend to EOS the devices very quickly. So while you may pay more for an iPad initially, it is useful for a much longer period of time, as Apple's product support cycle spans several generations of products.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 01:18 AM

I was a die-hard IBM user for many years.

I'm a bit over 30, but when I was very young I had my dad's hand-me-down Tandy 1000. As I got a bit older, I REALLY started hitting computers hard with a 386 running DOS/Windows 3.1 and kept using Windows up until my time in graduate school.

My only significant exposure to Macs along the way was in high school, where we had a room full of tray-loader iMacs. They were several years old even then, were most likely still running the OS they shipped with(either OS 8.1 or 8.5.5). I hated the things-especially typing on the awful little keyboards and using the "puck" mice.

Fast forward quite a few years and through an Apple architecture change, and I found myself working on my literature seminar in graduate school in Windows 7 on a Toshiba laptop. I found myself a bit up a creek when the computer suddenly shut off with a windows install so corrupted that it wouldn't boot.

I pulled the hard drive and dug my relevant files off of it. My then-room mate offered to let me borrow his "old" MacBook, a 2008 unibody aluminum. I used that for 2 weeks, passed my literature seminar, then went out the next day and bought a new late 2011 13" MacBook Pro which served me for a long time(a few years later I "upgraded" to the 2012 15"(HR-AG display), which wasn't out yet when bought my first computer but was what I wanted when I saw it. That is a computer that has continued to serve me well. The 2012 models were the last with an optical drive(mine is long gone-I have a 1tb SSD as my boot drive and a 2tb spinner for storage), don't have any known GPU issues, have USB 3.0, plenty of other ports built in(ethernet, FW800), the integrate GPU is much better than the 2011 models, and they were the last models available with the optional matte anti-glare screen. That's supplemented with a Mac Pro 5,1(2012) with dual hex core processors and a lot of other nice upgrades including PCIe storage. Most recently, I came to the hard decision that the 15" was too much for traveling(specifically flying) so picked up a 13" Retina MBP(last pre-toucbar model) which I've really enjoyed. It's crazy fast for light use(my quad core i7 15"-even with a CPU a few gens older-is still faster for heavy crunching). I saved a few bucks on it by buying it with the base amount of storage and upgrading it myself to 512gb-those computers have a removable "blade" SSD that is easy to change.

I've REALLY drank the Kool-aide, though, and have become a Mac collector. I have things stretching back to an original 1984 Macintosh(one early enough to just be marked "Macintosh" even though it was retroactively called the 128K) along with bunches of high end(and not so high end) 68K and PowerPC hardware. I have multiple examples of every "G" era PowerPC computer and even have had fun with the aftermarket upgrades building some really hot G3 and G4 towers(I like G5s, but you can't do as much to upgrade them). I'm even working on a few oddball other projects, like a clamshell G4 that I will hopefully also upgrade with a high resolution XGA panel(I have a friend in England who is also an enthusiast and he does BGA work for me-I usually pay him by buying overage of parts I need for my projects so that he has extras to play with for himself). I unfortunately haven't done much lately for a couple of reasons, but the G4s in particular are a lot of fun to upgrade and make do things they were never intended to do.

I'm not totally free of Windows. My MBPs have Windows(either Win XP or Win 7) VMs on them. Some are to run specific programs-they are mostly lightweight stuff that do fine when virtualized. As an example, my Mac Pro at work has a Win 7 VM that runs Agilent MSD Chemstation so that I can do offline GC-MS data processing in my office. I need to use Windows a LOT for the scientific instruments I maintain at work, almost all of which are Windows, but I have a strict off-line rule.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
I was a die-hard IBM user for many years.

I'm a bit over 30, but when I was very young I had my dad's hand-me-down Tandy 1000. As I got a bit older, I REALLY started hitting computers hard with a 386 running DOS/Windows 3.1 and kept using Windows up until my time in graduate school.

My only significant exposure to Macs along the way was in high school, where we had a room full of tray-loader iMacs. They were several years old even then, were most likely still running the OS they shipped with(either OS 8.1 or 8.5.5). I hated the things-especially typing on the awful little keyboards and using the "puck" mice.

Fast forward quite a few years and through an Apple architecture change, and I found myself working on my literature seminar in graduate school in Windows 7 on a Toshiba laptop. I found myself a bit up a creek when the computer suddenly shut off with a windows install so corrupted that it wouldn't boot.

I pulled the hard drive and dug my relevant files off of it. My then-room mate offered to let me borrow his "old" MacBook, a 2008 unibody aluminum. I used that for 2 weeks, passed my literature seminar, then went out the next day and bought a new late 2011 13" MacBook Pro which served me for a long time(a few years later I "upgraded" to the 2012 15"(HR-AG display), which wasn't out yet when bought my first computer but was what I wanted when I saw it. That is a computer that has continued to serve me well. The 2012 models were the last with an optical drive(mine is long gone-I have a 1tb SSD as my boot drive and a 2tb spinner for storage), don't have any known GPU issues, have USB 3.0, plenty of other ports built in(ethernet, FW800), the integrate GPU is much better than the 2011 models, and they were the last models available with the optional matte anti-glare screen. That's supplemented with a Mac Pro 5,1(2012) with dual hex core processors and a lot of other nice upgrades including PCIe storage. Most recently, I came to the hard decision that the 15" was too much for traveling(specifically flying) so picked up a 13" Retina MBP(last pre-toucbar model) which I've really enjoyed. It's crazy fast for light use(my quad core i7 15"-even with a CPU a few gens older-is still faster for heavy crunching). I saved a few bucks on it by buying it with the base amount of storage and upgrading it myself to 512gb-those computers have a removable "blade" SSD that is easy to change.

I've REALLY drank the Kool-aide, though, and have become a Mac collector. I have things stretching back to an original 1984 Macintosh(one early enough to just be marked "Macintosh" even though it was retroactively called the 128K) along with bunches of high end(and not so high end) 68K and PowerPC hardware. I have multiple examples of every "G" era PowerPC computer and even have had fun with the aftermarket upgrades building some really hot G3 and G4 towers(I like G5s, but you can't do as much to upgrade them). I'm even working on a few oddball other projects, like a clamshell G4 that I will hopefully also upgrade with a high resolution XGA panel(I have a friend in England who is also an enthusiast and he does BGA work for me-I usually pay him by buying overage of parts I need for my projects so that he has extras to play with for himself). I unfortunately haven't done much lately for a couple of reasons, but the G4s in particular are a lot of fun to upgrade and make do things they were never intended to do.

I'm not totally free of Windows. My MBPs have Windows(either Win XP or Win 7) VMs on them. Some are to run specific programs-they are mostly lightweight stuff that do fine when virtualized. As an example, my Mac Pro at work has a Win 7 VM that runs Agilent MSD Chemstation so that I can do offline GC-MS data processing in my office. I need to use Windows a LOT for the scientific instruments I maintain at work, almost all of which are Windows, but I have a strict off-line rule.


thumbsup

I don't have anywhere near the collection you do (sweet Jesus!) but I certainly have some old Mac hardware: Mac Plus, first gen iMac (red), Powerbook G3, 2nd gen iMac, I also had a couple of early ones like a IIcx and 6300 but don't know if they survived our last move, as I haven't dug them out. The little "plus" is probably the most amusing.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
^^^^
Yeah, you are off subject and that's ok.
Like I said throughout this thread, we all spend money on things important to us, anything in life, not just computers and phones so do not mistake my posts as anything but, yet for some reason you are coming in here commenting on a product because you think is too expensive but you are wrong on that, even if it was true, do you go to the automotive part of BITOG and down talk cars that are more expensive then what you own?

Most of all, you are off base on the cost of Apple vs Samsung Android Devices and whatever brand you have.
Many models of Samsung Android phones using the free Android operating system are far more expensive then a new iPhone XR.
Same goes for the phone you speak off, your One Plus cost $500 new, iPhone XR is $600 new and far better operating system that respects privacy.

You state you bought a 2.5 old used model for $200 yet you can buy a brand new 2.5 or 3 year old iPhone 6s+ for $100.

Like I say, we buy what makes us happy.
Im thrilled, just popped the SIM card from my Huawei cell phone into my new iPhone XR, and now Im completely on the IOS platform, from home computer to cell phone.
My wife just popped her SIM card into the Huawei I just abandoned, It was the Mate SE model and is a FANTASTIC Android device that I paid $200 new and now in possession of my wife who is now upgraded from her $99 Huawei.

:o)


Here is a local example of a used 2012 MacBook pro $700. When I searched, I didn't find any older MacBooks that were only a few hundred dollars. On the upside the resale value is great.

Please view this ad:

MacBook Pro (Mid 2012),
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-laptops/kin...ocialbuttons&utm_content=app_android



Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://tinyurl.com/9x9f4jd
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't have anywhere near the collection you do (sweet Jesus!) but I certainly have some old Mac hardware: Mac Plus, first gen iMac (red), Powerbook G3, 2nd gen iMac, I also had a couple of early ones like a IIcx and 6300 but don't know if they survived our last move, as I haven't dug them out. The little "plus" is probably the most amusing.


Collecting can be a dangerous path, and I'm a collector at heart. I'm going to have to make some SERIOUS decisions as to what I'm going to keep and get rid of in 2020, as I'm getting married in October and I think the car and a few other "collections" are enough for my fiancée(she does like the MG at least smile ) . Chances are the Macs are going to get slimmed down to the best examples of each tower and some of my favorite projects, although the laptops don't take up as much space and I might get away with a few more of those.

The last time I counted, I have over 100 Macs, which is too many.

Fortunately, though, I've also had the foresight over the last several years to pick up and stash away quite a few high end 90s PCs. Those are red hot now-particularly the good PPro/PII/PIII era stuff. A lot of what I've held on to are things like HP Vectras along with a handful of Pentium DECs. Aside from that, I have some lesser known brands that are still high end dual PII and PIII systems.

I have to make a real decision too on some of my lingering Mac projects. A few years ago, I was buying high end PC AGP cards for a little of nothing. I bought known models/references that I knew could flash into good Mac cards. With some tweaking, many of those could be better cards than the "official" Apple models. I even did a few EPROM swaps(on cards that I did flash)-PC cards are usually 64K and Mac 128K. The so-called "reduced" Mac ROMs are sometimes buggy, whereas if you put a 128K EPROM chip on them you could put the full size Mac ROM in and get rid of the problems. In any case, I had a few on indefinite hiatus that now bring serious money to retro PC gamers-the Radeon X850XT Platinum is one I'm eying.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

Here is a local example of a used 2012 MacBook pro $700. When I searched, I didn't find any older MacBooks that were only a few hundred dollars. On the upside the resale value is great.

Please view this ad:

MacBook Pro (Mid 2012),
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-laptops/kin...ocialbuttons&utm_content=app_android



Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://tinyurl.com/9x9f4jd


Macs tend to crater in value after they lose support in the current version of OS X.

Right now pretty much anything 2012 and newer is holding its own, although there are still bargains out there.

Get much older than that and you get really inexpensive.

I did just do a package deal with someone where I really wanted 2x 2011 11" Airs(I've never owned that size Air), but he had a bunch to move and wanted to deal. I ended up with a 2007 17" w/HR display, 1 each first and second generation MacBook Air(the first gen is terrible, the second is okay), 2x 11" 2011 Air, a 2010 15" Pro HR-AG, and a boxed/complete 2010 Mini Server for $300. Of course, that was a package deal price and none support Catalina.

Before that, the 13" 2015 Pro I mentioned above was $500.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 03:02 AM

Do you think there is much of a security risk if you were to keep running a non supported version from say 2010 or older? Would there be low risk since hackers aren't working on trying to hack something that old? Obviously windows is a different ball game and I wouldn't want to run a non supported/updated version of windows.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Do you think there is much of a security risk if you were to keep running a non supported version from say 2010 or older? Would there be low risk since hackers aren't working on trying to hack something that old? Obviously windows is a different ball game and I wouldn't want to run a non supported/updated version of windows.

If it will run Mojave it's still "current" in that it will still get security and performance updates for a good while yet. That's my plan for my Mac Pro currently, which won't run Catalina without some "modifications" which may result in it eventually running Linux.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Do you think there is much of a security risk if you were to keep running a non supported version from say 2010 or older? Would there be low risk since hackers aren't working on trying to hack something that old? Obviously windows is a different ball game and I wouldn't want to run a non supported/updated version of windows.


Macs have always had a small market share relative to Windows(even though it's grown in recent years) so OS X/macOS has always been a small target. With Apple no longer charging for OS upgrades, they also manage fairly widespread adoption of the newest/most current OS. So, on one hand, you do have security through obscurity.

In addition, Apple generally follows the rule of pushing security updates for the current version and the two previous versions. That means that Mojave and High Sierra are still getting security updates, and the latter will probably get its last in August or September of 2020.

On the other hand, though, if you're going to connect to the internet you run into a bunch of other problems. If a developer is developing on the most current version of macOS, Xcode(Apple's software compiler) will only build software that's compatible with the previous couple of versions. I think now 10.11 is still supported. This can be a real problem as even the major 3rd party developers will quit supporting older operating systems, and things on the internet will start to "break."

I'm a HUGE fan of OS X Snow Leopard, which in a lot of ways was the Windows 7 of OS X. It will run on all Intel Macs made in 2011 and earlier, and received security updates until 2013. I actually have a bunch of computers still running Snow Leopard. From a UI perspective, a lot of Mac users like it because it was the last version that did not show a lot of iOS influence . It was also the last version released while Steve Jobs was still alive. I keep it around because it was the last version to include Rosetta, which is the PowerPC emulator. Firefox was the last major browser to continue to support Snow Leopard, and their last release was in the summer of 2017. I'm finding more and more sites that just don't work on Firefox 52 ESR, so my internet usage of Snow Leopard is very much decreasing.

There are also some big security vulnerabilities in that programs like Flash haven't been updated in ages. If you do want to browse, you are better off disabling Flash.

Even with more recent OSs, things are starting to break. I loved Mavericks(10.9) but have mostly discontinued using it. Much of the iCloud feature integration no longer works. I've also run into issues at work in that Apple Mail in 10.9 will no longer work with our email client.

Suprisingly enough, OS X Tiger and Leopard, particularly on PowerPC, are actually somewhat better supported with browsers like TenFourFox and Leopard Webkit. Unfortunately, TFF in particular is getting increasingly "broken" with the amount of stuff that just gets turned off because the OS doesn't have the backbone to support it. Also,the web continues to unecessarily bloat, and it's getting more difficult for older computers to even render web pages in a reasonable amount of time.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't have anywhere near the collection you do (sweet Jesus!) but I certainly have some old Mac hardware: Mac Plus, first gen iMac (red), Powerbook G3, 2nd gen iMac, I also had a couple of early ones like a IIcx and 6300 but don't know if they survived our last move, as I haven't dug them out. The little "plus" is probably the most amusing.


Collecting can be a dangerous path, and I'm a collector at heart. I'm going to have to make some SERIOUS decisions as to what I'm going to keep and get rid of in 2020, as I'm getting married in October and I think the car and a few other "collections" are enough for my fiancée(she does like the MG at least smile ) . Chances are the Macs are going to get slimmed down to the best examples of each tower and some of my favorite projects, although the laptops don't take up as much space and I might get away with a few more of those.

The last time I counted, I have over 100 Macs, which is too many.

Fortunately, though, I've also had the foresight over the last several years to pick up and stash away quite a few high end 90s PCs. Those are red hot now-particularly the good PPro/PII/PIII era stuff. A lot of what I've held on to are things like HP Vectras along with a handful of Pentium DECs. Aside from that, I have some lesser known brands that are still high end dual PII and PIII systems.

I have to make a real decision too on some of my lingering Mac projects. A few years ago, I was buying high end PC AGP cards for a little of nothing. I bought known models/references that I knew could flash into good Mac cards. With some tweaking, many of those could be better cards than the "official" Apple models. I even did a few EPROM swaps(on cards that I did flash)-PC cards are usually 64K and Mac 128K. The so-called "reduced" Mac ROMs are sometimes buggy, whereas if you put a 128K EPROM chip on them you could put the full size Mac ROM in and get rid of the problems. In any case, I had a few on indefinite hiatus that now bring serious money to retro PC gamers-the Radeon X850XT Platinum is one I'm eying.


I just e-recycled about 100 PC's LOL. I may pick up an older SGI workstation (I loved IRIX) and/or maybe a DEC Alpha workstation if I can find one. First one of those I used in the early 90's had a huge greyscale Trinitron screen (like 24"?) and I recall using Mosaic to look at other EDU sites and information from NASA, which was pretty much all the "internet" consisted of at that time.

Sounds like you have a pretty nice vintage PC collection in addition to your Mac stuff! thumbsup

I'm familiar with, but only have limited experience with, the video card modding, having flashed the Mac ROM on a reference GTX 680 for my Mac Pro. I have the old Radeon 5770 here still, figuring I might fetch a few bucks for it on E-bay. I do have a pretty decent collection of DI-specific cards though LOL A lot of them are like the old Voodoo cards, requiring another card that supports VESA for the primary display.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 03:58 AM

I wish I knew which version my sister had years ago on her old plastic white MacBook. She got it when she went to college for video production stuff. Her first one failed just under the 1 year warranty but the next one I think she had it for like 7 years until her ex boyfriend spilled his beer on it and killed it.

I remember visiting her in Toronto and wanting to check something online before we headed somewhere, I used her mac which i had never had any experience with. It was confusing but it was cool to see something different than my windows XP which I had on my desktop at the time. This was probably around 2005 if I'm doing the math in my head right.

I'm trying Ubuntu on my older laptop right now. The interface kind of reminds me of the old Mac os I remember seeing on my sister's old Mac.

It definitely sped up my cheap 10 year old Lenovo g550 Pentium laptop some, but the internal graphics are so bad on this laptop that even playing 720p YouTube videos lately is causing screen tearing (weird ripples in the video) even on Ubuntu and windows 10 has slowed down badly on it this past couple weeks. It could be something starting to fail in the hardware, but the specs are getting pretty bad for running today's software. I bought it when I was poor and going back to college 10 years ago. I could have bought a better spec machine than I got at the time but it would have been an Acer or hp or something less reputable. I wanted to go with the Lenovo so I got a Pentium t4400 dual core 2.2ghz and 4gb of RAM. 220gb HDD. Not the greatest machine but it did last 10 years and one major drop onto concrete without any hardware failures and it ran fairly fast and could handle AutoCAD 3D for a good few years. The battery also lasted almost 7 years. At the time $699 Canadian was a lot of money for me to spend on a laptop so I couldn't get much really.
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

I just e-recycled about 100 PC's LOL. I may pick up an older SGI workstation (I loved IRIX) and/or maybe a DEC Alpha workstation if I can find one. First one of those I used in the early 90's had a huge greyscale Trinitron screen (like 24"?) and I recall using Mosaic to look at other EDU sites and information from NASA, which was pretty much all the "internet" consisted of at that time.

Sounds like you have a pretty nice vintage PC collection in addition to your Mac stuff! thumbsup

I'm familiar with, but only have limited experience with, the video card modding, having flashed the Mac ROM on a reference GTX 680 for my Mac Pro. I have the old Radeon 5770 here still, figuring I might fetch a few bucks for it on E-bay. I do have a pretty decent collection of DI-specific cards though LOL A lot of them are like the old Voodoo cards, requiring another card that supports VESA for the primary display.


I do enjoy my old PCs, even though Macs are my focus.

I've been trying to build up a little representative RISC collection, and have been able to snag a lot through work. I've managed to get a couple of SGIs-an Iris Indigo that I need to find a mouse for then fit a hard drive an an OS-plus a dead O2 and a nice, fully functional Octane. The SGIs were beasts in their day, and you have to love how great/quirky their design is. I unfortunately junked one dim and off color SGI-branded Trinitron, but do have a 21"(VGA and 13W3 in) that goes with the Octane. The guy who gave the the Iris Indigo HAD a 24" widescreen Trinitron at one time, but it's long gone.

Back earlier this year, I grabbed a Sun UltraSparc 5, which is a nice little computer even though I've not done a ton with it.

I have a bunch of DECs, as I mentioned, but they're all IBM compatible. I don't know of any Alphas around work, and they still bring eye-popping prices on Ebay just to have one to satisfy my curiosity.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Originally Posted by OVERKILL

I just e-recycled about 100 PC's LOL. I may pick up an older SGI workstation (I loved IRIX) and/or maybe a DEC Alpha workstation if I can find one. First one of those I used in the early 90's had a huge greyscale Trinitron screen (like 24"?) and I recall using Mosaic to look at other EDU sites and information from NASA, which was pretty much all the "internet" consisted of at that time.

Sounds like you have a pretty nice vintage PC collection in addition to your Mac stuff! thumbsup

I'm familiar with, but only have limited experience with, the video card modding, having flashed the Mac ROM on a reference GTX 680 for my Mac Pro. I have the old Radeon 5770 here still, figuring I might fetch a few bucks for it on E-bay. I do have a pretty decent collection of DI-specific cards though LOL A lot of them are like the old Voodoo cards, requiring another card that supports VESA for the primary display.


I do enjoy my old PCs, even though Macs are my focus.

I've been trying to build up a little representative RISC collection, and have been able to snag a lot through work. I've managed to get a couple of SGIs-an Iris Indigo that I need to find a mouse for then fit a hard drive an an OS-plus a dead O2 and a nice, fully functional Octane. The SGIs were beasts in their day, and you have to love how great/quirky their design is. I unfortunately junked one dim and off color SGI-branded Trinitron, but do have a 21"(VGA and 13W3 in) that goes with the Octane. The guy who gave the the Iris Indigo HAD a 24" widescreen Trinitron at one time, but it's long gone.

Back earlier this year, I grabbed a Sun UltraSparc 5, which is a nice little computer even though I've not done a ton with it.

I have a bunch of DECs, as I mentioned, but they're all IBM compatible. I don't know of any Alphas around work, and they still bring eye-popping prices on Ebay just to have one to satisfy my curiosity.


So you have some SGI boxes, I am jealous! LOL

Regarding the old DEC's, yes the university my father teaches at used to have piles of them, but they were all x86 boxes, none of them Alpha's, much like your situation. It was much earlier when I lived in Ontario (where I am presently) that the local uni here, where he was previously teaching, that the CS department had a pretty solid number of Alpha boxes. They truly were amazing machines at the time.

I've played on, but never owned a Sun box for whatever reason.

It was primarily O2's that I played with back in the late 90's when I was in school. Did some fresh installs of IRIX (was the only guy that had any *nix knowledge in my class) and then spent a fair bit of time playing around on them. They had the 21" SGI-branded Trinitron screens.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Originally Posted by OVERKILL

I just e-recycled about 100 PC's LOL. I may pick up an older SGI workstation (I loved IRIX) and/or maybe a DEC Alpha workstation if I can find one. First one of those I used in the early 90's had a huge greyscale Trinitron screen (like 24"?) and I recall using Mosaic to look at other EDU sites and information from NASA, which was pretty much all the "internet" consisted of at that time.

Sounds like you have a pretty nice vintage PC collection in addition to your Mac stuff! thumbsup

I'm familiar with, but only have limited experience with, the video card modding, having flashed the Mac ROM on a reference GTX 680 for my Mac Pro. I have the old Radeon 5770 here still, figuring I might fetch a few bucks for it on E-bay. I do have a pretty decent collection of DI-specific cards though LOL A lot of them are like the old Voodoo cards, requiring another card that supports VESA for the primary display.


I do enjoy my old PCs, even though Macs are my focus.

I've been trying to build up a little representative RISC collection, and have been able to snag a lot through work. I've managed to get a couple of SGIs-an Iris Indigo that I need to find a mouse for then fit a hard drive an an OS-plus a dead O2 and a nice, fully functional Octane. The SGIs were beasts in their day, and you have to love how great/quirky their design is. I unfortunately junked one dim and off color SGI-branded Trinitron, but do have a 21"(VGA and 13W3 in) that goes with the Octane. The guy who gave the the Iris Indigo HAD a 24" widescreen Trinitron at one time, but it's long gone.

Back earlier this year, I grabbed a Sun UltraSparc 5, which is a nice little computer even though I've not done a ton with it.

I have a bunch of DECs, as I mentioned, but they're all IBM compatible. I don't know of any Alphas around work, and they still bring eye-popping prices on Ebay just to have one to satisfy my curiosity.


This guy is taking offers on this Octane system, what do you think would constitute reasonable, given your experience in procuring these?
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-desktop-com...x-unix-workstation-make-offer/1254322097
Posted By: bunnspecial

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

This guy is taking offers on this Octane system, what do you think would constitute reasonable, given your experience in procuring these?
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-desktop-com...x-unix-workstation-make-offer/1254322097


To be honest, I'm a BIT out of touch on prices for them, especially as I didn't actually buy mine and it's been a few years since I researched prices. I also have next to no experience with the Octane2(I know the O2 and Octane, but not the Octane2).

The good about the one you linked-the SMP models are always more desirable than the singles. Never mind that for just an example from the company, you're fine with a single-the dual still is desirable.

Also, it almost looks like a stock photo, but I'd check on the display. A 13W3 SGI LCD is certainly going to be valuable and desirable as a collectible. I've never personally seen one, but with that said I've owned other LCDs from that era(including a handful of Apple brand ones) and most of them are pretty bad. They tend to be dim, have a narrow viewing angle, and fairly muted colors. I'd expect anything SGI put their name on to be good, but at the same time LCDs just weren't there yet in the early 2000s and I'd personally be a lot happier with one of their lovely 21" Trinitrons.

768mb of RAM is probably more than fine for anything you'd do with it, but at the same time it's a fraction of what the computer can hold, and I'd like a bit more for an example for my collection. You can basically forget upgrading it now-buy a computer with as much RAM as you want. I lucked into some VERY inexpensively for my Octane, but I watched Ebay for a few years before I even saw any for sale.

Also, the seller mentions that the OS will need to be installed. Unlike the O2, the Octane/Octane2 don't have any built in drives. IIRC, the SCSI port on the back is 68 pin LVDS. An optical drive that plays nicely with them isn't the easiest to find. A tape drive might be easier, although I've only ever seen 6.5.3 on CD. You can net install it, and there's a really good SGI forum out there somewhere on the internet that will help you with that.

If it were in front of me and I really wanted it, I might shoot $500 at it. My personal price in my situation(I prefer the Octane aesthetics, but the Octane2 is a better computer and that particular one is really nice) is that I might give it a $200 punt and see if they'd take it, although that's probably way too cheap.
Posted By: madRiver

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 01:25 PM

Windows irks me because they expect you pay for upgrades of versions. Mac and Ubuntu nope.

I just run the license keys of discarded Windows computers to avoid the nags.

I run all three and not a fan of one or other really. The iPhone and Mac integration is good however and hardware feel, display and size wonderful for my IT job using a MBP 2017 13”.

Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 03:25 PM

Well, Im liking the Apple iOS world !

Awesome, continuing on my clean break from EVERYTHING (and I mean everything) google and much of Microsoft.
I know many can not afford OR want to spend to do what I am doing, they could, if they wanted too, do much of the same stuff using the free versions of products that are out there.
Password managers, email protonmail all have free versions ect.

Anyway, set up my iPhone XR that wife got me for Christmas, wow, love how effortlessly it integrated with my Mac mini desktop.
Imported all my contacts from my android Huawei phone in a matter of seconds to the Mac and iPhone. Just love it!

I actually know people in the industry and the vast profits involved of packaging and selling your information, literally put up for bid.
For me, its a personal crusade stopping as much as I can from internet companies selling MY private information for profits. I rather pay out of my wallet then be the prostitute.

I got to admit, this is fun for me, been computing a long time and has given me a new "purpose" of adventure stopping this privacy invading spiral the people in the USA have accepted as a norm. One place in the world we are NOT advanced and that is privacy protections like in Europe. First major step, no more google!
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 06:50 PM

I understand wanting privacy, but for me Google has made my life so much easier, I really don't care that they're selling my useless information. The fact that I can look something up on Google in a couple of seconds (which I could never do years ago), I use Google keep as my notepad at work and everything I ever jotted down is safely stored there... I destroyed my phone in the ocean on vacation... All my contacts and important information are safe and it didn't cost me any $ to have it safe. I get another phone, sign into my Google account and I can have everything back in no time.

So you have to realize that not everyone is so worried about some strangers knowing that I browse bobistheoilguy.com almost every day, browse Kijiji for used cars (but never buy any), browse Amazon and eBay, go on Facebook a couple of times a week. Sure, someone has that information about me, but they don't know me, and I don't care that they have it. It doesn't negatively affect my life in one bit.

Nobody is forcing us to use Google, but I'm really glad to have it and most people I know are the same.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/29/19 07:24 PM

One doesn't have any privacy with Apple either. They are still collecting all the data, same as google, they just don't sell it to third parties now.
That can change on a whim.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/30/19 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
I understand wanting privacy, but for me Google has made my life so much easier, I really don't care that they're selling my useless information. The fact that I can look something up on Google in a couple of seconds (which I could never do years ago), I use Google keep as my notepad at work and everything I ever jotted down is safely stored there... I destroyed my phone in the ocean on vacation... All my contacts and important information are safe and it didn't cost me any $ to have it safe. I get another phone, sign into my Google account and I can have everything back in no time.

So you have to realize that not everyone is so worried about some strangers knowing that I browse bobistheoilguy.com almost every day, browse Kijiji for used cars (but never buy any), browse Amazon and eBay, go on Facebook a couple of times a week. Sure, someone has that information about me, but they don't know me, and I don't care that they have it. It doesn't negatively affect my life in one bit.

Nobody is forcing us to use Google, but I'm really glad to have it and most people I know are the same.



Yes, glad it works for you. I never said everyone is worried about anything. Im certainly not and dont know why anyone is.

I simply deny companies giving up my privacy to corporations no less, by turning down their "free" stuff.

Little does the common people know, these corporations have people buying stuff/there products for reason the public dont know why they are buying it. *L* its an amazing science and that is fact, not fiction. They can get into your mind so deep, that they can make you like one color over another and/or some day, decide who to vote for. Its right there, from one of the richest most successful business people in technology. Tim Cook.
Maybe that is my own beef, people think stuff is free.
Dont get me wrong, this is "rogue" stuff I am talking about but it does exist and if people think its going to get better without privacy laws they are ignorant.

Its seems like when I say that, some people get their feathers ruffled and take offense. But its just fact and I honestly dont care what other people do or use including my wife and she knows it.
beer
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/30/19 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
One doesn't have any privacy with Apple either. They are still collecting all the data, same as google, they just don't sell it to third parties now.
That can change on a whim.


Anything can change on a whim, heck but lets stick to facts, an astroid can hit the earth tomorrow too but as of today, an astroid hasn't hit the earth and Apple isnt selling information in exchange for a "free" operating system.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 12/31/19 06:02 PM

Once again, I'm not trying to say that you made a bad choice buying Apple, but this video is from a professional repair guy and his experiences with Apple and their repair. If I was going to spend all the extra money to have a Macbook, I would want to be able to trust the company. I don't trust Apple one bit when it comes to repairs. You can criticize this video, but he's not the only one with this experience. Since this thread has become a discussion about how much better Apple is compared to other brands I feel this kind of discussion is acceptable.

Watch the whole video before making a comment if you are going to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiSxPvuPLc
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/02/20 01:08 PM

^^^ There is a video for every product on planet earth ^^^ Look up any product you own ^^ you will always find a video both for and against.
Means nothing, people on YouTube are entertainers and most are honestly giving their impressions of something, big deal, they are on YouTube *LOL* ... dont have to be a rocket scientist for that.

Its good for reviews but its not factual to back up statements, so, for that reason, I will not watch your link because if I watched that, then I would have to watch videos on EVERY Windows computer that I might have purchased instead. Doesnt make sense to do that, since, once again, there is no credibility to anyone on YouTube.

I am pretty sure, the vast amount of people who chimed in here and other forums have more positive reviews then those of Windows computers.
Actually its indisputable. Oh heck, if you want something a little more scientific check Consumer Reports.

Also, back to basics, if you want privacy and believe in your right to privacy, your not going to find it on anything but Apple products.
(and duckduckgo)
and ... once again, since I actually completely switched to Apples platform including now an iPhone I am actually a better review source for non apple users then a person on YouTube, as I actually use and are now married to the system after 2 plus decades of Windows and later on, Android systems which makes me the expert if I produced YouTube videos.

...
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/02/20 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
^^^ There is a video for every product on planet earth ^^^ Look up any product you own ^^ you will always find a video both for and against.
Means nothing, people on YouTube are entertainers and most are honestly giving their impressions of something, big deal, they are on YouTube *LOL* ... dont have to be a rocket scientist for that.

Its good for reviews but its not factual to back up statements, so, for that reason, I will not watch your link because if I watched that, then I would have to watch videos on EVERY Windows computer that I might have purchased instead. Doesnt make sense to do that, since, once again, there is no credibility to anyone on YouTube.

I am pretty sure, the vast amount of people who chimed in here and other forums have more positive reviews then those of Windows computers.
Actually its indisputable. Oh heck, if you want something a little more scientific check Consumer Reports.

Also, back to basics, if you want privacy and believe in your right to privacy, your not going to find it on anything but Apple products.
(and duckduckgo)
and ... once again, since I actually completely switched to Apples platform including now an iPhone I am actually a better review source for non apple users then a person on YouTube, as I actually use and are now married to the system after 2 plus decades of Windows and later on, Android systems which makes me the expert if I produced YouTube videos.

...


I only posted that video because he's been on the news about this subject and also another nother YouTuber with 3 million subscribers. I posted this because it is the truth.
Posted By: terry274

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/02/20 06:02 PM

Google has a vested interest to NOT sell your information. They sell advertisements paid for by companys directed to you based on the information they have about you. If the advertisers could get the information Google has about you, they would not need Google. So, yes Google collects a lot of information but they don't sell it.
In short, Google is rich because they sell advertisements, not personal information.
If you believe they are selling personal information, please find me ONE instance of that. One verifiable case of Google selling anyone's personal information.
Posted By: uc50ic4more

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/02/20 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by terry274
Google has a vested interest to NOT sell your information. They sell advertisements paid for by companys directed to you based on the information they have about you. If the advertisers could get the information Google has about you, they would not need Google. So, yes Google collects a lot of information but they don't sell it.
In short, Google is rich because they sell advertisements, not personal information.
If you believe they are selling personal information, please find me ONE instance of that. One verifiable case of Google selling anyone's personal information.

I think it might be a semantic misuse of "your information" for most people... Those that have issue with Google et al's business model might be more accurate in saying "they use your personal information to generate revenue"; which, if you're trying to paint that model in a negative light, doesn't sound nearly as scary as "they sell your information".

Unfortunately, that does likely lead a lot of people to come under the mistaken impression that these companies are literally selling information about you.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/03/20 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by alarmguy
^^^ There is a video for every product on planet earth ^^^ Look up any product you own ^^ you will always find a video both for and against.
Means nothing, people on YouTube are entertainers and most are honestly giving their impressions of something, big deal, they are on YouTube *LOL* ... dont have to be a rocket scientist for that.

Its good for reviews but its not factual to back up statements, so, for that reason, I will not watch your link because if I watched that, then I would have to watch videos on EVERY Windows computer that I might have purchased instead. Doesnt make sense to do that, since, once again, there is no credibility to anyone on YouTube.

I am pretty sure, the vast amount of people who chimed in here and other forums have more positive reviews then those of Windows computers.
Actually its indisputable. Oh heck, if you want something a little more scientific check Consumer Reports.

Also, back to basics, if you want privacy and believe in your right to privacy, your not going to find it on anything but Apple products.
(and duckduckgo)
and ... once again, since I actually completely switched to Apples platform including now an iPhone I am actually a better review source for non apple users then a person on YouTube, as I actually use and are now married to the system after 2 plus decades of Windows and later on, Android systems which makes me the expert if I produced YouTube videos.

...


I only posted that video because he's been on the news about this subject and also another nother YouTuber with 3 million subscribers. I posted this because it is the truth.


I watched the video.

I had Lenovo send me a new (free) keyboard for my T420 when it was long out of warranty. They are good that way. The T-series are also extremely easy to service, unlike a Mac. That said, I still replaced my T-series with a Mac, which I've never needed to open the cover on and still has fantastic battery life long after the battery on my T-series pooped the bed. The Mac has a better screen to boot. No, it probably wouldn't survive me spilling a beer on it however.

Guy from worked dropped me off his daughter's 2012 MBP (13.3") yesterday because it was "slow". Unit was still running El Capitan. I dropped a Kingston UV500 480GB SSD in it (SATA) and installed a fresh copy of Catalina and the unit flies. I did the same for his other daughter last year, though it got Mojave. Both units still have their original batteries and only have 4GB of RAM, but are more than adequate for what they are used for, despite being 8 years old. They are computers that "just work" and there's significant value in that. I'm not getting them back to clean malware off them or Driver Optimizer/Registry Doctor/Memory Maximizer nonsense every six months either.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/03/20 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by terry274
Google has a vested interest to NOT sell your information. They sell advertisements paid for by companys directed to you based on the information they have about you. If the advertisers could get the information Google has about you, they would not need Google. So, yes Google collects a lot of information but they don't sell it.
In short, Google is rich because they sell advertisements, not personal information.
If you believe they are selling personal information, please find me ONE instance of that. One verifiable case of Google selling anyone's personal information.


You way over simplify, and that is ok. Like I said, if you dont care about google knowing all about you, beyond the fact of the data they collect from your email messages and what you search for, more like how your mind works, EVEN WHERE ON YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN WHERE YOU MOVE YOUR MOUSE, accumulating information of your children, family in return for free use of their stuff, hey that is fine. Maybe, maybe the word selling is over stated, Ill look more into that but I suspect you are correct in that they do not actually sell it, they use it and they do share it with other companies to process it.

Maybe more like UC50 states might be more accurate then the word sell, I think you maybe right on the word sell.
I would challenge anyone to actually read their privacy statement, its pretty darn creepy to me but again, to each his own.

Google Statements =
--"For example, we collect information about views and interactions with ads so we can provide aggregated reports to advertisers, like telling them whether we served their ad on a page and whether the ad was likely seen by a viewer. We may also measure other interactions, such as how you move your mouse over an ad or if you interact with the page on which the ad appears."

--"If you use our services to make and receive calls or send and receive messages, we may collect telephony log information like your phone number, calling-party number, receiving-party number, forwarding numbers, time and date of calls and messages, duration of calls, routing information, and types of calls."

--"We may also collect information about you from trusted partners, including marketing partners who provide us with information about potential customers of our business services, and security partners who provide us with information to protect against abuse. We also receive information from advertisers to provide advertising and research services on their behalf.

--"We use various technologies to collect and store information, including cookies, pixel tags, local storage, such as browser web storage or application data caches, databases, and server logs."

-- "We provide personal information to our affiliates and other trusted businesses or persons to process it for us, based on our instructions and in compliance with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures. For example, we use service providers to help us with customer support."

--We restrict access to personal information to Google employees, contractors, and agents who need that information in order to process it. Anyone with this access is subject to strict contractual confidentiality obligations and may be disciplined or terminated if they fail to meet these obligations."

--"This Privacy Policy doesn’t apply to:

The information practices of other companies and organizations that advertise our services
Services offered by other companies or individuals, including products or sites that may include Google services, be displayed to you in search results, or be linked from our services"

____________ Anyway, I think you are right and I am wrong, google does not "sell" your information, they use it. ___________
However if you read this disclosure one would wonder how much Swiss cheese is in all the data that they have on you...
Its all good, I for one, do not think that google is the god almighty of transparency in as much as any corporation. If one is comfortable this all of the behind the scenes data sharing and analyzing on your family, its your choice.

One thing for sure, the typical American has no idea what is going on, they dont read disclosures and the "system" is full of holes.
Its why the EU has far more strict controls.

I dont know of many who read this stuff, ...

https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en-US#infocollect
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/04/20 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by terry274
Google has a vested interest to NOT sell your information. They sell advertisements paid for by companys directed to you based on the information they have about you. If the advertisers could get the information Google has about you, they would not need Google. So, yes Google collects a lot of information but they don't sell it.
In short, Google is rich because they sell advertisements, not personal information.
If you believe they are selling personal information, please find me ONE instance of that. One verifiable case of Google selling anyone's personal information.


You way over simplify, and that is ok. Like I said, if you dont care about google knowing all about you, beyond the fact of the data they collect from your email messages and what you search for, more like how your mind works, EVEN WHERE ON YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN WHERE YOU MOVE YOUR MOUSE, accumulating information of your children, family in return for free use of their stuff, hey that is fine. Maybe, maybe the word selling is over stated, Ill look more into that but I suspect you are correct in that they do not actually sell it, they use it and they do share it with other companies to process it.

Maybe more like UC50 states might be more accurate then the word sell, I think you maybe right on the word sell.
I would challenge anyone to actually read their privacy statement, its pretty darn creepy to me but again, to each his own.

Google Statements =
--"For example, we collect information about views and interactions with ads so we can provide aggregated reports to advertisers, like telling them whether we served their ad on a page and whether the ad was likely seen by a viewer. We may also measure other interactions, such as how you move your mouse over an ad or if you interact with the page on which the ad appears."

--"If you use our services to make and receive calls or send and receive messages, we may collect telephony log information like your phone number, calling-party number, receiving-party number, forwarding numbers, time and date of calls and messages, duration of calls, routing information, and types of calls."

--"We may also collect information about you from trusted partners, including marketing partners who provide us with information about potential customers of our business services, and security partners who provide us with information to protect against abuse. We also receive information from advertisers to provide advertising and research services on their behalf.

--"We use various technologies to collect and store information, including cookies, pixel tags, local storage, such as browser web storage or application data caches, databases, and server logs."

-- "We provide personal information to our affiliates and other trusted businesses or persons to process it for us, based on our instructions and in compliance with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures. For example, we use service providers to help us with customer support."

--We restrict access to personal information to Google employees, contractors, and agents who need that information in order to process it. Anyone with this access is subject to strict contractual confidentiality obligations and may be disciplined or terminated if they fail to meet these obligations."

--"This Privacy Policy doesn’t apply to:

The information practices of other companies and organizations that advertise our services
Services offered by other companies or individuals, including products or sites that may include Google services, be displayed to you in search results, or be linked from our services"

____________ Anyway, I think you are right and I am wrong, google does not "sell" your information, they use it. ___________
However if you read this disclosure one would wonder how much Swiss cheese is in all the data that they have on you...
Its all good, I for one, do not think that google is the god almighty of transparency in as much as any corporation. If one is comfortable this all of the behind the scenes data sharing and analyzing on your family, its your choice.

One thing for sure, the typical American has no idea what is going on, they dont read disclosures and the "system" is full of holes.
Its why the EU has far more strict controls.

I dont know of many who read this stuff, ...

https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en-US#infocollect


I honestly don't think any corporation is that trustworthy (apple included - mainly because of their war on "right to repair"). I can understand not liking the way Google's privacy policy reads, however to me all it means is that they're going to send targeted ads toward me. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes not. Often times it just shows me ads for something I already bought, so I don't think they're paying that close attention. I also enrolled in Google opinion rewards, which they randomly send me surveys asking dumb questions (1-2 of them), I can answer in ten seconds and make $0.25 or so towards app or movie purchases etc... They ask me multiple choice questions about where I've visited recently, then if I paid by debit or other means.... I'm not sure how they don't already know the answer to that because I had my location turned on (if I don't I won't get the surveys). If I really want to be discreet I can always turn off the location with one click in my quick settings and I only need to turn it back on to use Google maps.

So I guess my next question is... If I was as privacy conscious as you why can't I just leave location off, browse in incognito mode, pause my history in YouTube, etc. Which I can do on my Android phone and my PC's?

Edit: What do you use for email for more privacy? I see that they can collect my emails through Gmail. I switched to Gmail from Hotmail like 15 years ago because I was getting so much spam on Hotmail. This is my only active email account now, the way I'm reading my privacy policy is that this is the only thing I can't control their access to (unlike my browsing history, location etc.)
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/04/20 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by terry274
Google has a vested interest to NOT sell your information. They sell advertisements paid for by companys directed to you based on the information they have about you. If the advertisers could get the information Google has about you, they would not need Google. So, yes Google collects a lot of information but they don't sell it.
In short, Google is rich because they sell advertisements, not personal information.
If you believe they are selling personal information, please find me ONE instance of that. One verifiable case of Google selling anyone's personal information.


You way over simplify, and that is ok. Like I said, if you dont care about google knowing all about you, beyond the fact of the data they collect from your email messages and what you search for, more like how your mind works, EVEN WHERE ON YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN WHERE YOU MOVE YOUR MOUSE, accumulating information of your children, family in return for free use of their stuff, hey that is fine. Maybe, maybe the word selling is over stated, Ill look more into that but I suspect you are correct in that they do not actually sell it, they use it and they do share it with other companies to process it.

Maybe more like UC50 states might be more accurate then the word sell, I think you maybe right on the word sell.
I would challenge anyone to actually read their privacy statement, its pretty darn creepy to me but again, to each his own.

Google Statements =
--"For example, we collect information about views and interactions with ads so we can provide aggregated reports to advertisers, like telling them whether we served their ad on a page and whether the ad was likely seen by a viewer. We may also measure other interactions, such as how you move your mouse over an ad or if you interact with the page on which the ad appears."

--"If you use our services to make and receive calls or send and receive messages, we may collect telephony log information like your phone number, calling-party number, receiving-party number, forwarding numbers, time and date of calls and messages, duration of calls, routing information, and types of calls."

--"We may also collect information about you from trusted partners, including marketing partners who provide us with information about potential customers of our business services, and security partners who provide us with information to protect against abuse. We also receive information from advertisers to provide advertising and research services on their behalf.

--"We use various technologies to collect and store information, including cookies, pixel tags, local storage, such as browser web storage or application data caches, databases, and server logs."

-- "We provide personal information to our affiliates and other trusted businesses or persons to process it for us, based on our instructions and in compliance with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures. For example, we use service providers to help us with customer support."

--We restrict access to personal information to Google employees, contractors, and agents who need that information in order to process it. Anyone with this access is subject to strict contractual confidentiality obligations and may be disciplined or terminated if they fail to meet these obligations."

--"This Privacy Policy doesn’t apply to:

The information practices of other companies and organizations that advertise our services
Services offered by other companies or individuals, including products or sites that may include Google services, be displayed to you in search results, or be linked from our services"

____________ Anyway, I think you are right and I am wrong, google does not "sell" your information, they use it. ___________
However if you read this disclosure one would wonder how much Swiss cheese is in all the data that they have on you...
Its all good, I for one, do not think that google is the god almighty of transparency in as much as any corporation. If one is comfortable this all of the behind the scenes data sharing and analyzing on your family, its your choice.

One thing for sure, the typical American has no idea what is going on, they dont read disclosures and the "system" is full of holes.
Its why the EU has far more strict controls.

I dont know of many who read this stuff, ...

https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en-US#infocollect


I honestly don't think any corporation is that trustworthy (apple included - mainly because of their war on "right to repair"). I can understand not liking the way Google's privacy policy reads, however to me all it means is that they're going to send targeted ads toward me. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes not. Often times it just shows me ads for something I already bought, so I don't think they're paying that close attention. I also enrolled in Google opinion rewards, which they randomly send me surveys asking dumb questions (1-2 of them), I can answer in ten seconds and make $0.25 or so towards app or movie purchases etc... They ask me multiple choice questions about where I've visited recently, then if I paid by debit or other means.... I'm not sure how they don't already know the answer to that because I had my location turned on (if I don't I won't get the surveys). If I really want to be discreet I can always turn off the location with one click in my quick settings and I only need to turn it back on to use Google maps.

So I guess my next question is... If I was as privacy conscious as you why can't I just leave location off, browse in incognito mode, pause my history in YouTube, etc. Which I can do on my Android phone and my PC's?

Edit: What do you use for email for more privacy? I see that they can collect my emails through Gmail. I switched to Gmail from Hotmail like 15 years ago because I was getting so much spam on Hotmail. This is my only active email account now, the way I'm reading my privacy policy is that this is the only thing I can't control their access to (unlike my browsing history, location etc.)



_____Actually you can do the things you mention regarding securing your privacy, lets face it, over 75% of the US population doesnt/has no clue.
I have not researched nor care too regarding googles incognito mode or any of their products but without question you can limit some of it and its a start.
I use Microsoft "hotmail" too. Gosh I have so many "live" accounts and one "outlook" ... never would I be ok to google scanning my emails picking up "keywords" to sell me products.

With that said, as you might have guessed I have been transitioning to private email. Its REALLY simple to have COMPLETELY private encrypted email, www.protonmail.com (even recommended by Consumer Reports) though I have used them for years. Keep in mind, being its private, they do not scan your emails for information, they do not place ads in their program so the only way they make money is to charge for their service, however, they do have a free package if you do not need much storage, I use one free one and I pay for one.

IN addition to that, if you want a completely free package another option is Apples email system, free to anyone, with a bit more free storage. No ads on Apples system www.icloud.com

AS far as search engine 75+ percent of the time I am now using www.duckduckgo.com I will still use google from time to time but I check duckduckgo ALWAYS first. Completely private search engine.

Its gotten so bad even consumer reports reports on the privacy issue. BTW duckduckgo is also recommended by them.

So even though I do not know everything, I do know, google is evil and I do know protonmail is private and I do know duckduckgo is private and have used them much before Consumer Reports even came out with the report on them. (it was cool to for me to see them)

BTW ... for whatever its worth, its really cool to have a civil conversation about this. I dont have all the answers and not an expert but I do know I have the power to limit all this intelligence gathering on US citizens by corporations like google and that is EXACTLY what it is, "intelligence gathering"

I just posted this link in another thread, people will look at this (the ones that actually read it through and watch the video) and find a reason to discount the words from the CEO of one of the most successful technology firms in the world who is warning about this intelligence gathering on you, the USA citizen and citizens of the world...
Not everyone in this world is evil and some companies believe in the "right to privacy" it amazes me how the young and some old no longer care.

Here it is, straight from the horses mouth and yet, some people will dismiss it, even though, its already taking place.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18017842/tim-cook-data-privacy-laws-us-speech-brussels


_____
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/04/20 06:47 PM

I will definitely look into using one of those email provider's as a second account, for when I want more privacy (can't hurt to have it for sure). However, I disagree about Google being anymore evil than apple. If apple has their way, you could never repair any product they sell you. You just have to buy a new one. (you didn't watch the video I shared about this and there are many more on the subject).

Today Google gave me one more reason not to dislike them... Not proud of it but I wasn't watching my budget closely enough and I had added YouTube premium to my account (no ads and you can download videos and play them in the background etc) and found out Google play music is included I this. So I was paying twice for a year.

A couple of clicks in my YouTube app and Google called me back.. had someone on the line within a minute. Within fifteen minutes I had $237 refunded to my credit card since I paid for 2 subscriptions for a year. They were actually very good about it. This isn't the first time I've called their customer support and it's always been faster and easier than calling absolutely any other company. If I knew how easy it would be, I'd have done it sooner.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/04/20 07:25 PM

Its all good, we all do what is good for us. I noticed a few times you state Apple is evil because makes it impossible for you to repair, for me I could care less, for me, the reason for Apple is the flawless performance, integration, security and privacy.

Im not going to second guess their manufacturing process for the few that might do their own repairs. Eliminating patch cords, plugs and replacing with solder is not a bad thing for reliability.

I haven't had to repair a computer in 25 years so if this apple ever breaks Ill send it in to be repaired.
Again, I stress, not debating you, we all do what works for us.

Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/04/20 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Its all good, we all do what is good for us. I noticed a few times you state Apple is evil because makes it impossible for you to repair, for me I could care less, for me, the reason for Apple is the flawless performance, integration, security and privacy.

Im not going to second guess their manufacturing process for the few that might do their own repairs. Eliminating patch cords, plugs and replacing with solder is not a bad thing for reliability.

I haven't had to repair a computer in 25 years so if this apple ever breaks Ill send it in to be repaired.
Again, I stress, not debating you, we all do what works for us.



It's not just that they make things a bit harder than other companies to repair, it's that the company itself is actively trying to fight the right to repair. I understand you're not interested in researching that anymore than I want to read every bit of Google's privacy policy (in my defense I did read some of it).

For me it's more important to have something that I can repair and keep for a long time. (hence the old Thinkpad, the OnePlus 5 (one of the more repairable Android phones) and 36 year old cars. I've repaired a number of phones over the years (including Apple) and I refuse to give money to a company that wants to stop all of us from being able to do that, or even being able to go to an independent repair shop. Can you imagine if any car manufacturer refused to sell parts to any independent garage? That's Apple for you.

The best thing going for apple is the long term software support (at least on phones and iPads - not computers (Microsoft supports longer), but they counteract that by selling failure prone hardware and discouraging from being able to repair them in the long run.

Apple wants you to pay big bucks for apple care and then when it breaks they will just send you a refurbished one (I've been through this in the past and that was before they started making them to be nearly unrepairable - since the iPhone 8 and x models).
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/04/20 07:56 PM

I'm not sure where the idea of privacy with apple comes from. Did you read apples privacy policy? They track cookies, browsing activity keystrokes and they always include "We may" and "The following are some examples of..".
So they obviously track more than they list.

What provicay with apple are we talking about here?
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/05/20 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm not sure where the idea of privacy with apple comes from. Did you read apples privacy policy? They track cookies, browsing activity keystrokes and they always include "We may" and "The following are some examples of..".
So they obviously track more than they list.

What provicay with apple are we talking about here?


Here you go =
https://www.apple.com/privacy/

This will be the last word from me on this, some sheep can walk into the path of a wolf and not know it. (not directed at you)
Most people are unable to disseminate and analyze information with rational outcomes so they will debate.

Apple is the world standard vs Google and Microsoft operating system standards regarding privacy. Google the worst, Microsoft right behind google. Apple is the best, in fact that is their company philosophy.

AS far as the "cream or the crop" I guess that would be Linux for those who want to "go there". I know nothing about Linux and have no time to figure it out. Furthermore, not sure I would be able to trust that I would properly update Linux for any security issues that may arrive.

I use Apple for the integration with what I want to do and the company philosophy that privacy is a "fundamental human right" and they do everything they can to protect you. Gosh, I hope the young people are being taught, that is one of the things the USA stands for, as well as individual liberty.


If you dont believe it, I cant help you. :o)
... nor can I educate anyone, they would need to be driven to examine/research the operating systems and company philosophy of Google, Microsoft and Apple and come to their own conclusion. I already know I am right.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/05/20 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm not sure where the idea of privacy with apple comes from. Did you read apples privacy policy? They track cookies, browsing activity keystrokes and they always include "We may" and "The following are some examples of..".
So they obviously track more than they list.

What provicay with apple are we talking about here?


Here you go =
https://www.apple.com/privacy/

This will be the last word from me on this, some sheep can walk into the path of a wolf and not know it. (not directed at you)
Most people are unable to disseminate and analyze information with rational outcomes so they will debate.

Apple is the world standard vs Google and Microsoft operating system standards regarding privacy. Google the worst, Microsoft right behind google. Apple is the best, in fact that is their company philosophy.

AS far as the "cream or the crop" I guess that would be Linux for those who want to "go there". I know nothing about Linux and have no time to figure it out. Furthermore, not sure I would be able to trust that I would properly update Linux for any security issues that may arrive.

I use Apple for the integration with what I want to do and the company philosophy that privacy is a "fundamental human right" and they do everything they can to protect you. Gosh, I hope the young people are being taught, that is one of the things the USA stands for, as well as individual liberty.


If you dont believe it, I cant help you. :o)
... nor can I educate anyone, they would need to be driven to examine/research the operating systems and company philosophy of Google, Microsoft and Apple and come to their own conclusion. I already know I am right.


It does suck that we need to choose between privacy (the walled garden of Apple) and a reasonable/fair price and the right to repair our own stuff. In my opinion, both are wrong and we have to choose which is most important to us.

The way I see it both of us don't want to admit how bad each of our chosen platforms is when it comes to their downfalls.

Btw, I installed Linux (latest Ubuntu) on my 10 year old laptop a few weeks ago as dual boot. I'm not an expert, just followed some YouTube guides go get it working. Everything is working well on it and straight forward. It reminds me of Mac os visually. It already wants to do an update which I paused because I was in the middle of watching some videos. The fact that we have Linux as a backup for old equipment is great. I also did a bunch of research on turning my one pc into a hackintosh, but it sounds like the reliability isn't as good as Linux, as an update can break it at anytime.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/05/20 05:05 PM

The link you provided to apple policy is just highlights of the good things apple does with regards to data. From your post it seems you base your opinion on these highlights. Not sure if you read the actual policy. Or if you read it, for some reason it doesn't register with you that apple collects just as much info as Google.

The difference is that apple doesn't sell all that info for advertising revenue.

So it appears that corporate double speak worked on you quite well.

Here are some examples from their actual privacy policy:

Quote
Collection and Use of Personal Information

Personal information is data that can be used to identify or contact a single person.

You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising. You are not required to provide the personal information that we have requested, but, if you chose not to do so, in many cases we will not be able to provide you with our products or services or respond to any queries you may have.

Here are some examples of the types of personal information Apple may collect and how we may use it:
When you create an Apple ID, apply for commercial credit, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Retail Store, connect to our services, contact us including by social media or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences, device identifiers, IP address, location information, credit card information and profile information where the contact is via social media.


Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/05/20 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
The link you provided to apple policy is just highlights of the good things apple does with regards to data. From your post it seems you base your opinion on these highlights. Not sure if you read the actual policy. Or if you read it, for some reason it doesn't register with you that apple collects just as much info as Google.

The difference is that apple doesn't sell all that info for advertising revenue.

So it appears that corporate double speak worked on you quite well.

Here are some examples from their actual privacy policy:

Quote
Collection and Use of Personal Information

Personal information is data that can be used to identify or contact a single person.

You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising. You are not required to provide the personal information that we have requested, but, if you chose not to do so, in many cases we will not be able to provide you with our products or services or respond to any queries you may have.

Here are some examples of the types of personal information Apple may collect and how we may use it:
When you create an Apple ID, apply for commercial credit, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Retail Store, connect to our services, contact us including by social media or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences, device identifiers, IP address, location information, credit card information and profile information where the contact is via social media.



Originally Posted by KrisZ
The link you provided to apple policy is just highlights of the good things apple does with regards to data. From your post it seems you base your opinion on these highlights. Not sure if you read the actual policy. Or if you read it, for some reason it doesn't register with you that apple collects just as much info as Google.

The difference is that apple doesn't sell all that info for advertising revenue.

So it appears that corporate double speak worked on you quite well.

Here are some examples from their actual privacy policy:

Quote
Collection and Use of Personal Information

Personal information is data that can be used to identify or contact a single person.

You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising. You are not required to provide the personal information that we have requested, but, if you chose not to do so, in many cases we will not be able to provide you with our products or services or respond to any queries you may have.

Here are some examples of the types of personal information Apple may collect and how we may use it:
When you create an Apple ID, apply for commercial credit, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Retail Store, connect to our services, contact us including by social media or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences, device identifiers, IP address, location information, credit card information and profile information where the contact is via social media.




Not even close, read the full google and Apple disclosures, nothing more that I can add.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/05/20 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by KrisZ
The link you provided to apple policy is just highlights of the good things apple does with regards to data. From your post it seems you base your opinion on these highlights. Not sure if you read the actual policy. Or if you read it, for some reason it doesn't register with you that apple collects just as much info as Google.

The difference is that apple doesn't sell all that info for advertising revenue.

So it appears that corporate double speak worked on you quite well.

Here are some examples from their actual privacy policy:

Quote
Collection and Use of Personal Information

Personal information is data that can be used to identify or contact a single person.

You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising. You are not required to provide the personal information that we have requested, but, if you chose not to do so, in many cases we will not be able to provide you with our products or services or respond to any queries you may have.

Here are some examples of the types of personal information Apple may collect and how we may use it:
When you create an Apple ID, apply for commercial credit, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Retail Store, connect to our services, contact us including by social media or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences, device identifiers, IP address, location information, credit card information and profile information where the contact is via social media.



Originally Posted by KrisZ
The link you provided to apple policy is just highlights of the good things apple does with regards to data. From your post it seems you base your opinion on these highlights. Not sure if you read the actual policy. Or if you read it, for some reason it doesn't register with you that apple collects just as much info as Google.

The difference is that apple doesn't sell all that info for advertising revenue.

So it appears that corporate double speak worked on you quite well.

Here are some examples from their actual privacy policy:

Quote
Collection and Use of Personal Information

Personal information is data that can be used to identify or contact a single person.

You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising. You are not required to provide the personal information that we have requested, but, if you chose not to do so, in many cases we will not be able to provide you with our products or services or respond to any queries you may have.

Here are some examples of the types of personal information Apple may collect and how we may use it:
When you create an Apple ID, apply for commercial credit, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Retail Store, connect to our services, contact us including by social media or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences, device identifiers, IP address, location information, credit card information and profile information where the contact is via social media.




Not even close, read the full google and Apple disclosures, nothing more that I can add.



So you've obviously spent way more time reading start to finish both disclosures but you wouldn't even watch the video from the reputable repair guy I posted for you who was on the news because of apples shady repair practices ripping people off in their "genius" bar? I don't think anything would change your mind either way. That's fine. It's your money to spend and your devices that may not be repairable.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/06/20 01:08 PM

^^ yeah, I dont get the point of your posts trying to discredit Apple computers using a post from a guy making a YouTube video.
Think about that.

and .. .your right, its my money, no different then If I bought a brand car you didnt like or washing machine. *L* [censored], I can find a bad youtube post on anything.

Your posts have nothing to do with my posts regarding privacy and Apple making it more easy for me to control it, as well as their operating philosophy.
Posted By: terry274

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/06/20 04:57 PM

This has been an interesting thread. I use Debian Linux and Firefox browser. Firefox extensions are Ublock Origin and Cookie Bro. My default search engine is Duck Duck Go. I don't have a Facebook account.

Originally Posted by alarmguy

AS far as the "cream or the crop" I guess that would be Linux for those who want to "go there". I know nothing about Linux and have no time to figure it out. Furthermore, not sure I would be able to trust that I would properly update Linux for any security issues that may arrive.


It's not that hard to use Linux, as far as the updates I get a small taskbar notification when one becomes available. I click the notification, enter a password and it is updated. The update typically takes less than 20 seconds and I don't have to restart.

Does anyone remember phone books? Everyone had their name and address printed and distributed throughout the community for all to see. You could pay and get a "private listing". I don't know what that entailed, we never got the private listing when I was a child. The phone company sold advertisements in the yellow pages part of the book, that was how they made profit on the book.

Stop for a moment and think of all the different entities that "track" you. Drivers license, car tags, social security numbers, store loyalty cards. Cameras on every street and building. Facial recognition that is astounding.

Look at the information available here on BITOG. Click on a members username and find all their posts and you can learn enough to make Google envious.

The point is, privacy is an illusion and has been since before the internet came into being. And people voluntarily giving their information is how the bulk of the info gets out.
Posted By: alarmguy

Re: Quick Mac mini Update - 01/07/20 01:08 PM

"The point is, privacy is an illusion and has been since before the internet came into being. "
1. I do not agree, people do not have to share their data with the major internet players, their local ISP, Google etc.
So maybe you are right, it is an illusion to those that do nothing about it.

"And people voluntarily giving their information is how the bulk of the info gets out."
2. I DO agree, they rather give it up then pay for applications and information.

3. Yes, it seems for the adventurists, Linux is the way to go. I have thought about it many times, god, I got 4 decent well equipped PC's neatly sitting literally a few feet from me doing nothing/disconnected, just waiting for me to verify I have all the family photos off before I throw them out. Just about ANY of them would most likely make a good Linux computer, more so a recent almost unused Dell optiplex that my wifes company told her she could have as they didnt need it and they knew I was into computers.

Anyway, everything is about time and although I like the idea of toying around with it, there are other things I rather do until the day comes that I have too much time on my hands. *L*
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