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Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion

Posted By: DV0993

Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/26/19 10:05 PM

Reviving an old topic perhaps.

I was having a discussion with some friends. We all swear by Mos2 and use it in our mowers, daily drives and sports cars. I personally have noticed an improvement in smoothness and fuel consumption by using mos2.

Keen to hear everyones experiences.

Anyhow, my friend's mechanic mentioned that Ceratec is better for alloy blocks, whilst mos2 is better for cast iron blocks? Is there any validity to this statement?

For the record, I add half a bottle to my s2000 (but only when im not using a group IV oil) and half a bottle to my diamante (which uses conventional).
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/26/19 10:07 PM

Ceratec?.. never heard of her.😉
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/26/19 11:09 PM

A well respected member, Trav posted pictures of MoS2 settled in the bottom of an oil pan after he dropped the oil pan. Others had similar experiences, especially in vehicles that are not driven everyday. The product can and does fall out of suspension, and judging by the pictures I saw it didn't go back into suspension even after starting the engine and moving the car to where it was going to be worked on. As a result I wouldn't use it. Trav also mentioned Ceratec doing the same thing in an air compressor if memory serves me correctly.
Posted By: Kamele0N

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/26/19 11:23 PM

Funny.....because I put a tad of LM MoS2 in my bike chain oil......and even after standing a year on the shelf that oil is still grey from the bottom to the top smile

May it be that Trav was playing with some MoS2 in powder he ordered somewhere on the internet.....
Posted By: DV0993

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by demarpaint
A well respected member, Trav posted pictures of MoS2 settled in the bottom of an oil pan after he dropped the oil pan. Others had similar experiences, especially in vehicles that are not driven everyday. The product can and does fall out of suspension, and judging by the pictures I saw it didn't go back into suspension even after starting the engine and moving the car to where it was going to be worked on. As a result I wouldn't use it. Trav also mentioned Ceratec doing the same thing in an air compressor if memory serves me correctly.


I have read these posts - Maybe its placebo, but I have observed nothing but benefits. Have also ran it in my 2 stroke mower (started 2 weeks apart). The fuel was still grey (i.e the moly hadn't separated to the bottom of the fuel tank).
Posted By: tundraotto

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by DV0993
Originally Posted by demarpaint
A well respected member, Trav posted pictures of MoS2 settled in the bottom of an oil pan after he dropped the oil pan. Others had similar experiences, especially in vehicles that are not driven everyday. The product can and does fall out of suspension, and judging by the pictures I saw it didn't go back into suspension even after starting the engine and moving the car to where it was going to be worked on. As a result I wouldn't use it. Trav also mentioned Ceratec doing the same thing in an air compressor if memory serves me correctly.


I have read these posts - Maybe its placebo, but I have observed nothing but benefits. Have also ran it in my 2 stroke mower (started 2 weeks apart). The fuel was still grey (i.e the moly hadn't separated to the bottom of the fuel tank).


It's supposed to be added to the oil!?! Not the fuel......
Posted By: tcp71

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 12:23 AM

In a 2 stroke the oil is mixed with the fuel.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by tcp71
In a 2 stroke the oil is mixed with the fuel.



Right but adding moly or ceratec to the fuel mix is probably not a wise thing to do.
Posted By: Kamele0N

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 12:33 AM

Its how its aplied to 2strokes...
Posted By: tundraotto

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Its how its aplied to 2strokes...


Good luck with your sparkplugs 'molyed'. Sounds asinine.
Posted By: DV0993

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 01:12 AM

Haven't had any issues. In fact the mower starts easier and is quieter. IMO

But more importantly, I'm interested in the automotive applications.
Posted By: JHZR2

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 01:51 AM

I love the concept of MoS2 in oil.

But in practice? Meh.

I shared pics from our VW oil filter, which had ceratec agglomerated in it. That kind of did it for me.

I also derived mathematically the settling time for particles based upon established analytic work.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-particle-mos2-settling-time#Post2407575

Settling could be as fast as two weeks, or as long as three months, roughly...
Posted By: DrDanger

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 02:25 AM

Posting a link to my favorite thread on here
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4853520/2

middle of page 2 .. old study but still...

Here are the results. 600 ppm dinuclear moly with ZDDP (Blend 5) did best both in friction and wear. Note that it has the highest sulfur with 2,000 ppm (0.2%), which is at the ACEA C1 and C4 limit and close to the C2, C3, and C5 limit (0.3%).

So a healthy dose of good old MoS2 is proven to work. No placebo.
Dont expect miracles, sometimes it can take a lot of driving to notice any difference and if you take good care of the engine you may not notice anything at all.
Does not mean your wear/friction numbers arent better.
I also add a bit (10% of fill) of Magnatec Stop Start formula but thats just me.
Posted By: Marco620

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 05:29 AM

I run recommend Archoil 9100 over either of these products listed above if you want solid boundary lubrication. Ester based vs LiquiMoly mineral base and in a 16 ounce bottle that four ounces treat roughly 4 qts. I'm now using Lubegard Biotech with M1 0w30 and it runs well.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Funny.....because I put a tad of LM MoS2 in my bike chain oil......and even after standing a year on the shelf that oil is still grey from the bottom to the top smile

May it be that Trav was playing with some MoS2 in powder he ordered somewhere on the internet.....

No it was LM Mos2
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by DV0993
Originally Posted by demarpaint
A well respected member, Trav posted pictures of MoS2 settled in the bottom of an oil pan after he dropped the oil pan. Others had similar experiences, especially in vehicles that are not driven everyday. The product can and does fall out of suspension, and judging by the pictures I saw it didn't go back into suspension even after starting the engine and moving the car to where it was going to be worked on. As a result I wouldn't use it. Trav also mentioned Ceratec doing the same thing in an air compressor if memory serves me correctly.


I have read these posts - Maybe its placebo, but I have observed nothing but benefits. Have also ran it in my 2 stroke mower (started 2 weeks apart). The fuel was still grey (i.e the moly hadn't separated to the bottom of the fuel tank).

OK. You wanted to discuss it, unfortunately with these types of discussions expect to read good and bad reviews. FTR the product is not designed for two cycle engines, they advise against using it in them.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 10:25 AM

If I am not mistaken there is a discussion here that talked about using Ceratec in a oil burning vehicle. The spark plugs fouled badly.

I would think the same will happen in a 2 cycle engine.
Posted By: DrDanger

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by JHZR2
I love the concept of MoS2 in oil.

But in practice? Meh.

I shared pics from our VW oil filter, which had ceratec agglomerated in it. That kind of did it for me.

I also derived mathematically the settling time for particles based upon established analytic work.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-particle-mos2-settling-time#Post2407575

Settling could be as fast as two weeks, or as long as three months, roughly...


I have no doubts as to the validity of these observations.
Ceratec has a ton of "soft" metals, which may have chelated(not a well educated guess). MoS2 is a different beer.
Moly settling on the bottom of the pan - oil pressure in a working engine would at least stir and bring some of that back into play. Seen youtube videos - shaking a clear plastic bottle of
oil and MoS2 visually brings things in suspension.
Would that settling time you calculated be in a container or in a operating engine?
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/27/19 07:35 PM

Oil pressure in the pan? I don't think so.
Posted By: DrDanger

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 01:40 AM

Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
Posted By: tundraotto

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.


Only thing getting 'swooshed' is the customer....out of the drain it goes, with the oil once it has done its whatever time-cycle.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.


As Trav described to me what he found in his pan resembled silver Anti-Seize. It was not mixing in with the oil, even with swooshing, shaking, or otherwise. Granted his vehicle sat for long periods of time it proved the stuff does fall out of suspension, and what fell out of suspension remained out of suspension. Reason being he drove the car before dropping the oil pan. My thinking is if the product is used long enough in a vehicle that sits a lot of it will end up collecting at the bottom of the oil pan. But if a person sees value and believes there is a benefit with no downside in using this product, go for it.

If you're looking to boost moly without fear of solids falling out of suspension, check out Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. Many people here swear by it. Happy Thanksgiving.
Posted By: wag123

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 02:15 PM

I have been using Mos2 for over 30 years in a variety of different vehicles from different manufacturers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with it. When I took the oil pan off of my old Camry to reseal a leaking pan gasket, I didn't find any Mos2 settled in the bottom of the pan. I have also cut a few oil filters open and I didn't see any evidence of Mos2 collecting in them. To be fair, these are/were everyday use vehicles. Also, I don't use a full can of the product at every oil change, I treat with a full can at the first use and then add 1/2 can (5oz) at every oil change thereafter.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by wag123
I have been using Mos2 for over 30 years in a variety of different vehicles from different manufacturers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with it. When I took the oil pan off of my old Camry to reseal a leaking pan gasket, I didn't find any Mos2 settled in the bottom of the pan. I have also cut a few oil filters open and I didn't see any evidence of Mos2 collecting in them. To be fair, these are/were everyday use vehicles. Also, I don't use a full can of the product at every oil change, I treat with a full can at the first use and then add 1/2 can (5oz) at every oil change thereafter.

Trav's findings and pictures were of interest to me since two of my vehicles are not driven everyday. Based on that I came to the conclusion that if it was moly I was looking to boost, Biotech Engine Protectant was the way to go, for me.
Posted By: wag123

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Trav's findings and pictures were of interest to me since two of my vehicles are not driven everyday. Based on that I came to the conclusion that if it was moly I was looking to boost, Biotech Engine Protectant was the way to go, for me.
Two totally different kinds of moly that work differently in the engine.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by wag123
Two totally different kinds of moly that work differently in the engine.

Correct. According to Rosemill Industries, a mfg. and supplier of moly the better of the two [for an oil additive] and more commonly used in engine oil is the moly used in the Bio EP. I gathered a lot of info about moly years back when I was coating bullets and was in contact with them regarding this. We also discussed moly as an oil additive, they said MoS2 would fall out of suspension, and there were better choices. They were very helpful and informative.

Search the archives there are others who had similar findings, and some posted pictures similar to Trav's with MoS2 in vehicles that weren't driven everyday. I saw pictures of cut open filters, it passes through, that wasn't the issue here.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 04:08 PM

The two moly formulas may work differently but they serve the same purpose.

I agree with demarpaint. If I were to choose I would go with a soluble form of moly over a powder. The Lubegard Biotech has the soluble form and quite a bit of it to boot along with esters and boron. It’s a intriguing product.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
The two moly formulas may work differently but they serve the same purpose.

I agree with demarpaint. If I were to choose I would go with a soluble form of moly over a powder. The Lubegard Biotech has the soluble form and quite a bit of it to boot along with esters and boron. It’s a intriguing product.

thumbsup
Posted By: DrDanger

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 06:47 PM

As we know from the main page/ Moly basics on here, the falling out of suspension issue should have been fixed a long time ago.
Hate to quote the "tests" is a soda bottle, where it goes back in suspension, but whats to say the thing on the bottom of the pan isnt plain sludge, especially on a higher mileage vehicle.
I found a few UOAs showing it in suspension.
Silver anti-seize could be moly or could be metal bits.
I do agree that the newer organo-moly complexes are better than MoS2. These are hard to find where I am...
Have seen enough good UOA's with MoS2, which is obviously in suspension to show on the sheet. Here is the first google result
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...flat&Number=2397032&#Post2397032

Happy Thanksgiving all !
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/28/19 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by DrDanger
As we know from the main page/ Moly basics on here, the falling out of suspension issue should have been fixed a long time ago.
Hate to quote the "tests" is a soda bottle, where it goes back in suspension, but whats to say the thing on the bottom of the pan isnt plain sludge, especially on a higher mileage vehicle.
I found a few UOAs showing it in suspension.
Silver anti-seize could be moly or could be metal bits.
I do agree that the newer organo-moly complexes are better than MoS2. These are hard to find where I am...
Have seen enough good UOA's with MoS2, which is obviously in suspension to show on the sheet. Here is the first google result
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...flat&Number=2397032&#Post2397032

Happy Thanksgiving all !

A lot of good UOA's without it too. If you drive everyday and aren't concerned about the possibility some of it falling out and collecting in the bottom of the pan, by all means use it. Trav's engine had zero sludge in the pan, so that certainly wasn't the case. The purpose of this thread was to discuss the product, the good, the bad, and the ugly. That's what I'm doing. Yes happy Thanksgiving.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/29/19 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.


Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase.
Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.
Posted By: DrDanger

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/29/19 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.


Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase.
Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.


Looked up windage trays. Some cars have them, some dont.
Looks like it is model dependent. How would the moly get out with an oil change if it is not carried/suspended by the oil.
Check the UOA on the previous page - moly seems in suspension.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Posted By: OS4A

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/29/19 05:36 AM

Seems like it comes down to...LM M0S2 is ok for daily driver since it won't fall out of suspension. LM M0S2 is a no go for vehicles that sit for weeks or months on end.

Lubeguard Biotech if concerned at all about falling out of suspension or desire the different formulation.

I've used both in daily drivers with no repercussions. I stress my experience is with daily drivers only.

Good info as always on BITOG!

Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/29/19 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by DrDanger
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.


Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase.
Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.


Looked up windage trays. Some cars have them, some dont.
Looks like it is model dependent. How would the moly get out with an oil change if it is not carried/suspended by the oil.
Check the UOA on the previous page - moly seems in suspension.

Happy Thanksgiving!

The point is not all of it stays in suspension, what falls out stays out and collects and remains in the bottom of the pan. The longer you use the product eg: [add a bottle at each OCI] the more it will collect in the bottom of the pan in vehicles that aren't driven everyday.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/29/19 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by DrDanger
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.


Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase.
Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.


Looked up windage trays. Some cars have them, some dont.
Looks like it is model dependent. How would the moly get out with an oil change if it is not carried/suspended by the oil.
Check the UOA on the previous page - moly seems in suspension.

Happy Thanksgiving!


Sometimes the gasket itself is acting as a windage tray. the point is without something to prevent turbulence from the pistons aeration can become an issue with dire consequences.


Gasket..

[Linked Image]
Posted By: DrDanger

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/30/19 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by OS4A
Seems like it comes down to...LM M0S2 is ok for daily driver since it won't fall out of suspension. LM M0S2 is a no go for vehicles that sit for weeks or months on end.

Lubeguard Biotech if concerned at all about falling out of suspension or desire the different formulation.

I've used both in daily drivers with no repercussions. I stress my experience is with daily drivers only.

Good info as always on BITOG!



Yes, can agree with that!
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 11/30/19 10:42 PM

Would not use any of these products in any engine which has VVT.

These systems typically contain fine mesh screens to filter out small solids.

In addition I've yet to come across a compelling reason to use these products. Maybe 30+ years ago. After all has LM ever provided any studies on the effectiveness of these products in a modern engine?
Posted By: Kamele0N

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 12/01/19 04:40 PM

According to BITOG...MoS2 (and MoDTC & Mo.... Even more?) has beneficial effects on (valve) chains...

Thats why I am using Motul gearoil with MoS2 in my transmission case...and a tad of LM in oil of my yaris...
Posted By: wag123

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 12/02/19 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
According to BITOG...MoS2 (and MoDTC & Mo.... Even more?) has beneficial effects on (valve) chains...

Thats why I am using Motul gearoil with MoS2 in my transmission case...and a tad of LM in oil of my yaris...
MoS2 should NOT be used in a manual transmission. It will cause the syncros to become non-functional. Get it out of there ASAP!
Posted By: Kamele0N

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 12/02/19 02:57 PM

Tnx...I know that...

I meant transfer case...sorry "my misteyka"...wanted to say" in my tranny".....but that (could) sound so...odd smile
Posted By: TiGeo

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/08/20 07:12 PM

Ceratec last change and it's supposed to be good for 30k. Will go MoS2 this time around.

Attached picture 20200208_141016.jpg
Posted By: Olas

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/21/20 09:19 AM

Re moly falling out of suspension;

My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)

as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?

lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/21/20 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;

My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)

as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?

lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?


If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.
Posted By: dogememe

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/21/20 12:16 PM

No thanks, the oil is fine the way it is. I've tried various additives and nothing seems to actually do anything beyond wasting money.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/21/20 02:55 PM

You may as well open the window and throw the money out into the wind, same effect. Lighter wallet nothing more.
Posted By: Triple_Se7en

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/21/20 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;

My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)

as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?

lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?


If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.


Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/21/20 06:09 PM

Okay but lets say for the sake of argument that its doesn't fall out of suspension (I have seen different in oil pans and a mod here did extensive testing and found it did also), what exactly are you gaining with this stuff?
When it was popular many decades ago we had oils that were not very good at doing anything except keeping the engine alive for possibly 100K max and had no real AW additives, it was pretty much a done deal for the engine at that point.
The stuff helped a little but nothing significant. In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless, brings nothing of benefit, any effects at all are short lived and temporary.
Posted By: Triple_Se7en

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 12:25 AM

I only use a half-bottle 6.5oz, so significant results aren't being sought by me. If I knew someone here would rebuke the product, I would have poured the entire bottle into the engine for better / more thorough testing.
I will be trying Lubegard Biotech next..... at another half-dose. I have two new'ish vehicles. So I'm not looking to repair anything.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 01:12 AM

No offense intended, its your car and your money but I just wonder what do people expect when using these additives?
I have been maintaining a VW for someone for the last 10 years and it has 260K on the 2.0 slow, all it ever had since new was VW spec 502 and zero additives since new. The engine still has decent compression and doesn't use any measurable amount of oil between 5K OCI.

The ravages of rust is taking its toll so the car will probably go to the yard with its original engine still running fine.
Posted By: Marco620

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 01:36 AM

I had used the Ceratec before I discovered Archoil and Ceratec never had any issues. If you drive every day and all that you won't have a worry. It might also be mineral based also. If you want solid lubrication then use Archoil which uses a ester base and would take way longer if ever to fall out of suspension.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 02:07 AM

Again, what is the point adding something to the oil that has been formulated to meet the manufacturers and standards requirements? Is it that it does no harm so it must be doing some good?
Posted By: Olas

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;

My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)

as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?

lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?


If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.


Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.



Maybe the car has to sit for 2 weeks or longer for it to start to settle? several bottles over the years, never see anything settled in the sump. differnet formulations?
Posted By: Olas

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Trav
In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless,


If this is true, why does moly appear on VOAs? Are XOM/Valvolline etc just plain wrong, and living in the past?

If the fully formulated and blended oil in the bottle (blended by experts, BTW) contains moly then stating that it is abolutely worthless suggests that every last human in the PCMO business is stupid and wrong.
Write them a lette eplaining why their add pack is wrong, and ask them to send proposals for newer, better, more affective add packs.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Olas
Re moly falling out of suspension;

My hunnch is that gravity will pull the particles to the bottom of the sump pan. Incidentally, the oil pick up is located at the bottom of the sump pan! Further, the bottom of the majority of sump pand is not flat but angled toward the pickup (and drain plug, theyre usually close to one another.)

as the pickup sucks up oil from the bottom of the pan, what mechanism do we assume to be at work to keep the moly seperate from the oil? how does the pickup differentiate and choose what it picks up?

lastly, why does oil retain the silver colour of mos2 if it has all fallen to the bottom of the pan? what dye or colourant is in use?


If you haven't seen pictures of MoS2 collected at the bottom of an oil pan, PM Trav. His pictures ended several members from using the product, especially in vehicles that aren't driven everyday. He had similar observations with Ceratec in a compressor.


Three OCIs using MoS2 with three different synthetic brands of 5w30 oil (Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline) and there's no separate collection of MoS2 in my drain pans.



Maybe the car has to sit for 2 weeks or longer for it to start to settle? several bottles over the years, never see anything settled in the sump. differnet formulations?

Maybe 2 weeks, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. I saw the pictures, and Trav started and moved the car before dropping the oil pan, so the stuff didn't go back into suspension. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words.

I occasionally go on vacations, and travel by air, so my cars might sit a week, maybe more. If I work in NYC I use the LIRR, so my van could sit for weeks. Having said that I have dabbled in additives, if I were inclined to want to boost moly, there are better choices IMO than LM's MoS2. Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant uses a different moly, a moly which oil companies use, that stays in suspension. Knowing that I see no point in using MoS2 for anything other than coating bullets. Just to be clear, not all if it falls out of suspension, but there was quite a bit in Trav's pictures. As always opinions vary.
Posted By: Trav

Re: Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion - 02/22/20 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by Trav
In today's oils IMO it is absolutely worthless,


If this is true, why does moly appear on VOAs? Are XOM/Valvolline etc just plain wrong, and living in the past?

If the fully formulated and blended oil in the bottle (blended by experts, BTW) contains moly then stating that it is abolutely worthless suggests that every last human in the PCMO business is stupid and wrong.
Write them a lette eplaining why their add pack is wrong, and ask them to send proposals for newer, better, more affective add packs.


You just made my point, thank you! Many oils do contain moly but not the one that is based MoS2 solids.Even LIQUI MOLY oils with AFAIK one exception don't contain any of their own MoS2 product.
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