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Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer

Posted By: outrun

Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/02/02 08:08 AM

Hey Yall,

Anyone else here use Lucas Oil Products? I currently use the Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer on 3800 GM Engine w/180k miles mixed with 4qts Mobil 1 10W30. Although the 3800 is an excellent engine by itself i have noticed the Lucas Oil stabilizer to have quieted the lifters and lessen oil burning.

I did run the stuff mixed with Royal Purple in the same ratio on my 50k mile Camaro...BUT
on the Camaro it crashed my Fuel Economy 4mpg!!!!

According to Lucas Oil Tech Support they said my bearings/rings were in new and likely to close to factory tolerances which did not work to well with the heavy viscosity Lucas. Curious Point if anyone has experiance with this stuff.

I also use thier ATF Transmission Slip, Power Steering and Fuel Cleaner additives.

-Sun
Posted By: Dominic

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/02/02 09:12 AM

Mobil 1 and the 3800-II doesn't get along well I've found. I've been running the Valvoline products instead and my valves are silent. Many here don't like the valvoline products, for some reason, but I do and really enjoy the fact my 3.8L sounds like a camry 2.4L 4cyl at idle its so quiet [Big Grin]
Posted By: outrun

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/03/02 10:43 AM

Hmmm...at least i do not think i have seen any problems running Mobil-1 in our two 3800 Engines.

As faras the idle problem maybe next oil change I will try Valvoline synthetic and get back to you.

The idle does quiete down at operating temperature...have you at least noticed that? the 3800 is a buttery smooth engine none the less-

Sun
Posted By: Bror Jace

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/14/02 06:13 AM

outrun rather than running a 10W30 and then pumping it up with an thickener-type additive, why not merely run a heavier oil?

Say ... a 10W40 or 15W40? [Confused]

I bet you'd get the same effect ... and it would be cheaper as well.

--- Bror Jace
Posted By: mormit

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/14/02 01:09 PM

I have no experience with Lucas products except to mention that they have recently shown up on the counters of local AutoZone stores. Unless you have at least a tech data sheet, you are only guessing as to how you are modifying your oil.

That said Mobil 1 (as well as a few others) could use a bit of thickening. Don't get me wrong, M1 is a great oil. The Mobil 1 xW-30 oils are formulated to the low end of the 30 weight range...a fact that has kept me off of this oil. If you stay with M1, try the 0W-40. Amsoil 10W-30 ATM or Schaeffer's #703 10W-30 are formulated with a bit more viscosity in the 30wt range and would be excellent choices as well.
Posted By: mebanditws6

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/15/02 07:19 AM

The Lucas is more slippery than regular oil and probably has better shear protection even though it fared the worse on Bob's bearing tests for wear. That's why I'd rather have run 10w30+Lucas rather than 20w50 or 10w40 alone. Those other additives that did better than it were designed to strengthen protection in different ways than Lucas. It's supposed to flow more with the oil rather than clinging to parts. Restore did really well on that test but its designed to cling to parts and not shear down. Thats why it helps old engines run better by using that clinging property to help smooth out worn cylinder wall surfaces.

Jason
Posted By: Tom Smith

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 12/18/02 12:41 AM

I have used Lucas for the first time on my last Oil change and it reminds me very much of the STP Oil Treatment I used to use on my cars in the 70's.. [Smile] Just as thick and sticky.
I agree, if you lifters get quieter after adding this stuff then I would try a heavier oil in my car. 10W40 would be good to start. Or some have a 5W50 in case you are worried about the low temp viscosity
Posted By: mkosem

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 03:39 AM

is this stuff just a viscosity booster?

--Matt
Posted By: dragboat

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 04:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mkosem:
is this stuff just a viscosity booster?

--Matt

It is Bright Stock .
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 04:47 AM

I'd go with Schaeffer's 132 if you need some slight viscosity increase.

Bright stock is good for gear oils, but engine oils?
Posted By: Terry

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 05:02 AM

Guys, Believe it or not Amsoil used to use 150 Bright stock in the older ARO 20w-50 racing oil. I don't know how much but it shocked me too.
Posted By: sprintman

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 07:33 AM

I use Lucas UCL in both our vehicles. I premix it with U.S made FPC (Fuel Performance Catalyst) a fuel burn enhancer and add 200ml to tank before filling with Evo 98 fuel. It's pretty cheap here so must be almost free in the States.
Posted By: Giles

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 07:58 AM

What is bright stock and is STP Oil Treatment made out of the same thing?
Posted By: rugerman1

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 09:14 AM

From NORIA:Bright stock -- a heavy residual lubricant stock with low pour point, used in finished blends to provide good bearing film strength, prevent scuffing, and reduce oil consumption. Usually identified by its viscosity, SUS at 210F or cSt at 100C.
Oil Analysis and Lubrication Dictionary

Mark
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 01:29 PM

The base for STP is polyisobutylene, an olefin copolymer. It increases oil viscosity much the same as bright stock, except it leaves very little residue as compared to brightstock.
Posted By: SSLoneStar

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 02:07 PM

LUCAS *ROCKS* !! cant be in buisness this long without something working [Wink]
Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/07/03 10:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SSLoneStar:
LUCAS *ROCKS* !! cant be in buisness this long without something working [Wink]

If that's all it takes to be good, then better get ur slick50 out. It's been around longer than lucas. So has stp. They must be doing something right, right? I agree, they are. Amazing how easy it is to sell an additive to a confused public with tv ad's, infomercials, and paying some race car team to post their name on the side of their car. You, my friend are exactly the prime canidate for these ads and like many, have that "feel good" feeling from using such and really fail to understand just how good maybe your existing lubricant is doing the job.
Posted By: tenderloin

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/08/03 03:54 AM

Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer

API GRAVITY . 26.5
Specific Gravity @60F .8956
Density @ 60F 7.458
Viscosity @ 100C cSt 110,0
Flash Point COC F 425
Color Amber

Synergyn Oil Treatment

TYPICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Viscosity (VK) @ 40 Degrees C 348.7 ASTM D - 445
API Gravity 28.68 ASTM D - 1298
Specific Gravity .08834 ASTM D - 1298
Density Lbs/Gal 7.36 ASTM D - 1298
Flash Point, Degrees F/C 374/190 ASTM D - 92
Pour Point, Degrees F/C 0/-18 ASTM D -

IN CRANKCASES - 2 oz. Synergyn Oil Treatment per Quart of Engine Oils

IN GEAR, HYDRAULIC, TRANSMISSION AND ALL OTHER SYSTEMS - 1 oz Synergyn Oil Treatment Per Quart of System Oil

[ January 08, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
Posted By: Bror Jace

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/08/03 04:31 AM

I agree with other here who take a dim view on sustained use of STP, Slick-50 and/or Lucas HD Oil Stabilizer. On an older vehicle with some wear, you might be making the best of a less-than-ideal situation, but you would be much better off starting off with a heavier oil if you are changing it. I would only use something like LHDOS in an “emergency” or in lieu of changing the oil and filter ... but then, an oil & filter change is fairly cheap when compared to this stuff ($8 U.S. retail around here) ... and then the engine will almost certainly be better off. [Wink]

Perhaps someone can do a little calculation as to an equivalent weight if you started off with 4 quarts of 10W30 and added 1 qt of LHDOS? I'm guessing you would end up with something close to 15W40 or 20W50. Of course, in warm weather, why not simply go with a straight weight? I just picked up some Pennzoil straight 40 for use in our (overtaxed) 10hp John Deere snowblower. [I dont know]

mebanditws6: "The Lucas is more slippery than regular oil ..."

More slippery? Without friction modifiers? (which should have shown up on a Timken test) I don't see how this could be true. It does have a lot of tackiness/stickyness and is used as a “climbing” additive in gear oils. That may help reduce wear ... but by how much? I think this stuff can only make a serious difference in seriously worn engines with excessive clearances to fill. [Frown]

Also, I would think that bright stock would be more shear stable than the polymer-based STP. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong with this statement.

Qurestion is, which does a better job at protecting tired, worn engines? A more shear-stable thick goo (LHDOS) or a less stable one with a healthy does of cheap friction modifiers (ZDDP, used in STP)? [Confused]

Anyway, I can't see paying $8 per quart for LHDOS. [SPAZ!] Can someone familiar with inner petro-chemical cost structures tell us whether $8 per quart retail is a fair price to pay for bright stock? I always wondered about this. [Confused]

SSLoneStar, I agree with the Bobster, there are a lot of companies which have stayed in business selling products that aren’t exactly too useful. Again, I think LHDOS has it’s use but I think the way Lucas markets it (as a general purpose additive for all kinds of high-performance) is wrong. This is why outrun didn’t have good results with it in his newer car. Classic misapplication.

I’m not familiar with their UCL, but I’d offer an educated guess that their auto transmission additive is merely a friction enhancer like limited slip differential additives sold by many companies. Again, it has it’s use in a tranny on its last legs (slipping bands) but is not really necessary in a properly functioning unit.

--- Bror Jace
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/08/03 06:24 AM

"Also, I would think that bright stock would be more shear stable than the polymer-based STP. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong with this statement.
Qurestion is, which does a better job at protecting tired, worn engines? A more shear-stable thick goo (LHDOS) or a less stable one with a healthy does of cheap friction modifiers (ZDDP, used in STP)? "

Bright stock is more shear stable, but with it's low VI, it would thin down in viscosity much earlier than would a polymethylacrylate OCP and polyisobutylenes (PIB)." Bright stock would leave heavy carbon deposits upon combustion, whereas PIB's leave very little residue.

"Anyway, I can't see paying $8 per quart for LHDOS. Can someone familiar with inner petro-chemical cost structures tell us whether $8 per quart retail is a fair price to pay for bright stock? I always wondered about this. "

Bright stock runs about 1.5 to 3 times the cost of 150N mineral oil. At approx. $0.38/qt for 150N mineral oil, bright stock should cost about $1.15/qt max. These prices are for non-additive virgin oils, of course.

[ January 08, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Posted By: Bror Jace

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/08/03 06:33 AM

Thanks 'Kule, I figured you might know about the shear stability. I never would have figured bright stock would "thin out" so fast. I know that STP didn't last a day in my air-cooled ATC200E (old 3-wheeler) before it was running off the dipstick like water. [Eek!]

After seeing that, I never used STP again in an application I cared about. [Frown]

So, are you saying that bright stock should be priced 1.5 to 3 times what a bargain conventional oil would be? I realize that even bargain dino oils are finished with additives 'n such. So, it's overpriced ... but not ridiculously so. [I dont know]

OK, you might be the one to ask: How much polyisobutylenes (PIB) were in Diet Mr. Pib? [Wink]

--- Bror Jace
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/08/03 06:43 AM

"OK, you might be the one to ask: How much polyisobutylenes (PIB) were in Diet Mr. Pib?"

Don't know about the PIB's in Pib, but the phosphoric acid will certainly clean the bird droppings off your windshield. [Big Grin]

[ January 08, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Posted By: SSLoneStar

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/17/03 12:05 AM

Sorry Bob,24 years in trucking and legally logging nearly 2 million miles and a believer of Lucas products with positive results,hardly puts me on the hype hook.Sure theres better tech stuff out now since back then*actually better by how much* ?
Pulling 400K mile in-frames show positive proof that Lucas* products work as claimed,hardly a Motor-Up commercial ;-)We run all Syns.in our Class 8 trucks now as they come that way from the factory.
Lucas* has long term proven products which arent even close to Slick 50 hype.

SS/LS


quote:
Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
quote:
Originally posted by SSLoneStar:
LUCAS *ROCKS* !! cant be in buisness this long without something working [Wink]

If that's all it takes to be good, then better get ur slick50 out. It's been around longer than lucas. So has stp. They must be doing something right, right? I agree, they are. Amazing how easy it is to sell an additive to a confused public with tv ad's, infomercials, and paying some race car team to post their name on the side of their car. You, my friend are exactly the prime canidate for these ads and like many, have that "feel good" feeling from using such and really fail to understand just how good maybe your existing lubricant is doing the job.
Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/17/03 12:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by SSLoneStar:
Sorry Bob,24 years in trucking and legally logging nearly 2 million miles and a believer of Lucas products with positive results,hardly puts me on the hype hook.Sure theres better tech stuff out now since back then*actually better by how much* ?
Pulling 400K mile in-frames show positive proof that Lucas* products work as claimed,hardly a Motor-Up commercial ;-)We run all Syns.in our Class 8 trucks now as they come that way from the factory.
Lucas* has long term proven products which aren't even close to Slick 50 hype.

SS/LS


quote:
Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
quote:
Originally posted by SSLoneStar:
LUCAS *ROCKS* !! cant be in buisness this long without something working [Wink]

If that's all it takes to be good, then better get ur slick50 out. It's been around longer than lucas. So has stp. They must be doing something right, right? I agree, they are. Amazing how easy it is to sell an additive to a confused public with tv ad's, infomercials, and paying some race car team to post their name on the side of their car. You, my friend are exactly the prime candidate for these ads and like many, have that "feel good" feeling from using such and really fail to understand just how good maybe your existing lubricant is doing the job.

You think just maybe it might not be lucas but your attention to proper maintenance done with a good lubricant? Have you ever considered running 4+ vehicles with same engines, driving styles, and work loads to compare of that whole period of time? I don't think you'd find any difference from that. Not on the engine. rearends, another story, but engines, no, don't agree, and your story isn't anything to go by as you don't know just how well it would have done without this additive. Only if you took 4 trucks with identical systems, drivers, and usages, run over that same period, 2 of which used lucas and 2 not, and then could you actually say for a fact it did or didn't affect the outcome. I strongly believe that many don't give themselves enough credit like in your case, I believe you take the time to do proper maintenance, there fore, shouldn't have problems due to that little factor.
Posted By: Patman

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/17/03 12:43 AM

Bob raises a very valid point. If it were this easy, I could claim that the reason for my never having an engine failure was the brand of air freshener I have hanging from the mirror! [Big Grin]
Posted By: tenderloin

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/17/03 01:21 AM

Can we prove it does not work? How much of an engines life also depends on how IT was put together.......all the parts having to be built properly, with base materials of sufficient quality, as well as being assembled properly?

Knocking anecdotal evidence from people who have use products gets no one anywhere. We all have are reasons for using certain products and to us they are valid...unless proven otherwise...something that is difficult to do.

From Schaffer oil, Supertech filters on and on......most of what we read are peoples preferences, with some numbers thrown in.....even the numbers are argued about their relevance or validity....enough of this additive.......to much of that.

That is what makes this board informative and interesting......just don't blow off people who have received good results or even believe they have received good results from this or that product. Just my opinion.

[ January 17, 2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/17/03 06:22 AM

Point taken.. So, since so many do like lucas, I thought why not look more into what lucas can do for a rear end on a truck...

Anyone looking at using gear oil additives, might want to look at this thread.

Topic: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives

[ January 18, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
Posted By: mebanditws6

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/19/03 08:29 AM

When I said Lucas was more slippery than regular dino oil, I was merely basing that on rubbing my fingers together. I had some motor oil on my hands from changing the oil, and when I poured the Lucas in I poured some on my fingers to see how it compared to the oil, and it just seemed to be a little more slippery thats all. Also at those auto parts counters with those gears, the gears running some lucas and oil was much easier to turn than the one with just motor oil. I also realize that was just gears though and not an engine.

Jason
Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/19/03 08:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mebanditws6:
When I said Lucas was more slippery than regular dino oil, I was merely basing that on rubbing my fingers together. I had some motor oil on my hands from changing the oil, and when I poured the Lucas in I poured some on my fingers to see how it compared to the oil, and it just seemed to be a little more slippery thats all. Also at those auto parts counters with those gears, the gears running some lucas and oil was much easier to turn than the one with just motor oil. I also realize that was just gears though and not an engine.

Jason

Well Jason, I think this brings out a good point as to how one may seem to think it can help but when looking at doing your own home brews with already designed oils, this helps show how additives can actually cause clashes with the chemistry that was previously designed by that company. I find it particuarly interesting that this demo is identical as what they have on counters but because it cannot be spun fast enough to agitate the oil and additive it never becomes apparent what happens when mixed in a engine or rear end.

This is the big lesson about additives... You call any oil company, they will tell you that additives are not needed in their oil. Manufactures will tell you not to use additives in your oil. Oil guys will tell you not to use additives in your oil, mechanics noramlly will tell you not to use additives in your oil(at least the good ones [Big Grin] ), Anyway, This really opened my eyes when I stumbled on this machine and tried this, and now I think many of us can see why this is so important now.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/19/03 03:17 PM

Interesting comment that oil companies don't recommend additives.

Valvoline sell a range of oil addtives down here.

Is there something that they're not telling us (i.e. you need the oil AND the additive) ?
Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/19/03 09:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Shannow:
Interesting comment that oil companies don't recommend additives.

Valvoline sell a range of oil addtives down here.

Is there something that they're not telling us (i.e. you need the oil AND the additive) ?

I didn't say they don't sell them, but call them and they would advise against it.
Oil companies are no fools, they see where so many people are wanting to "mix" their own additives, so much so it is a billion dollar industry, so yes, why not sell additives? Does that mean they encourage the use of it with their oil? Well from all the calls to oil company engineers, see how many, say at penz/qstate, will tell you to go and put slick50 in their oil.
Posted By: mebanditws6

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/20/03 02:00 PM

Bob,

Yeah I'm starting to see how you don't really need any additives such as Lucas. But additives like Engine Restore are a bit different, and actually seem to make a difference on alot of high mileage engines. Would Engine Restore cause any sort of a "class" with the oil chemistry? I remember the results you got on the timken bearing, and they were quite good, but you also said Restore could impede oil flow in some cases.

Jason
Posted By: Truckerman

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/20/03 03:49 AM

About 2 years ago I bought a 1989 Chevy R3500 pickup.
454, Turbo 475, non posi rear end, about 80,000 miles. The truck was very clean and looked well maintained. It was clean enough that the dealer who took it in as a trade put an 11 year old truck on his own lot instead of getting rid of it. The rear end made quite a bit of noise, and I saw the Lucas display at the parts store, so I decided to try it.
I used a 50/50 mix of Valvoline synthetic gear oil and Lucas, the rear end became almost silent. I decided to try it in the engine. My previous oil consumption was about 1500 miles to a qt. of oil, phenominal for a big block Chevy! with Valvoline no synthetic and 1 qt. Lucas, I am going 2500 to 3000 miles on a qt. of oil. The Transmission started having trouble going into reverse and third gears. I traced the problem to a valve sticking and not letting the clutch packs engage properly. Lucas is cheaper than a rebuild so I tried it. Third gear now works great and reverse is getting better the nore I drive it. I am guessing that the previous owner did not change the atf as often as he should have, causing the valves to stick, and the Lucas has evtra detergent which is slowly freeing them up. I also tried the power steering additive, and it made no difference, still a noisy pump, a new one from NAPA ! The truck now has 103000 miles, it runs great and uses almost no oil.

Lucas worked for me. Comments welcome

Note, this article has made me realize that it would cheaper to jst add a $2.00 qt. of oil at 1500 miles than it is to add Lucas at 3000 miles and $22.00 a gallon.

Truckerman
Posted By: mebanditws6

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/20/03 07:51 AM

Truckerman,

I suspect the reason for the reduction in oil consumption is that Lucas is very heavy. I bet just using a heavier oil such as a 20w50 high mileage oil (Penzoil, Castrol GTX, or Maxlife) would reduce consumption as well. That is interesting about the Lucas quieting down the rear so much. I'd like to see what Bob has to say about that as I have no explanation other than the gears at those parts counters are easier to turn with the Lucas in than without the Lucas. I do like the Lucas Transmission Fix though as it stopped my friend's gf's car from slipping on takeoff.

Jason
Posted By: sprintman

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/20/03 02:06 PM

Shannow Valvolying needs all the help it can get. especially since moly removed from Maxlife.
Posted By: Truckerman

Re: Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - 01/20/03 02:45 PM

also tried the Lucas/oil mix in my GF's 1991 Ford Ranger, and it did not help the noise at all. It did slow down the oil consumption on her 300000 mile V-6 engine. Lucas has worked 3 out of 5 tries. More than one parts counterman has told me that Lucas is wonderful, and I realize that they must have a biased opinion, because they sell it. I have also been thinking that a thicker oil might work just as well and be cheaper to. A lot of people here seem to not like Valvoline. I have been told to use Valvoline by a mechanic whom I respect. He works on the big Natural gas pump engines for the local water district, and builds high 11/low 12 second street drivable drag cars for a hobby, so he knows what he is doing. BTW, I asked him about Lucas and he said he knew nothing about it. Is there anything better than valvoline? something I can buy at the parts store, not a mail order place?
I change the oil and filter every 3000-4000 miles, and I use the 2 qt filter from NAPA or Wix.

Thanks for the info
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