2019 - 502/505 is dead in US

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Maybe discussed already, this is the first time I've seen all engines officially moved away from 502/505. In fact Audi has skipped 504 all together for many engines and gone straight to 508. I'll stick to 504 in our Q5 in any case and don't think 508 products are even on the shelves here yet outside the dealer.

2017
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...ed_Maintenance_Flipbook_Pages_022317.pdf
2018
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...ed_Maintenance_Flipbook_Pages_022317.pdf
2019
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...eduled-Maintenance_4-23-2019-w-etron.pdf
 
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I don't know why anyone would run 502 today, its pretty much an obsolete old spec and inferior to 504. It was only necessary because of the poor quality fuels offered in the USA but now they are cleaning up their act with low sulfur.
 
We mostly run vw504/507....BMW LL-04...MB 229.51/52 over here... Low saps formulations but with HTHS 3.5+....thats like 90% of the market here...
 
Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
don't think 508 products are even on the shelves here yet outside the dealer.
Can be ordered on europaparts.com , fcpeuro.com , ecstuning.com , ebay.com , blauparts.com , I'm sure I've missed some..... You can often get an oil filter and new drain plug packaged with the oil too. Should be able to beat dealer prices! Castrol Edge Professional LL IV FE 0W-20 and LiquiMoly, Ravenol, Motul, Total Quartz, available here in the states.
rmeuropean.com has Motul, LiquiMoly, and Total Quartz brands of 508 oil. Looks like dealerships use Castrol Edge 508 typically though.
https://www.rmeuropean.com/Make/PartNumberSearch.aspx?pnsearch=0w-20

Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
.... and gone straight to 508. I'll stick to 504 in our Q5
That would give you a small decrease in wear. Audi-VW probably looks at the small extra wear hit using the thinner stuff and says its acceptable. Something like this:
[Linked Image]


... which is around 10% or so extra wear, although boundary additives in the VW 508 thin oils might cut that to 5% or so. That means an engine that wears its rings out in 300,000 miles would, worse case, wear out in 270,000 miles instead. No biggie.
 
Going to a 504 (HTHS 3.5) when Audi says 508 (HTHS 2.7) is going overboard. Adding +0.5 is more reasonable. Problem here is, that I don't see many HTHS ~3.0 to ~3.2 oils around that meet the tough VW specs. LL-01FE or MB 229.6 are higher saps, might not quite get to VW performance standards, and somewhat hard to get. Yes, going to VW 504 is good. Maybe VW 508 in winter-only.
 
For the past 3 winters (Dec - April) I run on WM Super-Tech 0W20 SN Plus with good results.
Rest of the year Amazon Basics European Formula 0W40 A3/B4.
Should I switch to 508 00 / 509 00 Castrol EDGE® Professional® 0W20 Long Life IV for winter or maybe year round?
 
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
If it can't just run API standard oils its always been dead to me!


That's totally understandable, considering that aside from the dealer you can only find Euro spec oils in a very few extremely isolated and remote locations such as Advance Auto, AutoZone, and Walmart. Then factor in having to actually open and read the owners manual?
That's way too inconvenient for me.
 
Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
Maybe discussed already, this is the first time I've seen all engines officially moved away from 502/505. In fact Audi has skipped 504 all together for many engines and gone straight to 508. I'll stick to 504 in our Q5 in any case and don't think 508 products are even on the shelves here yet outside the dealer.

2017
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...ed_Maintenance_Flipbook_Pages_022317.pdf
2018
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...ed_Maintenance_Flipbook_Pages_022317.pdf
2019
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam...eduled-Maintenance_4-23-2019-w-etron.pdf

LM TT 6200:
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P004100/20780-TopTec62000W-20-26.0-en.pdf

Motul 508.00:
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.net/images/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/83126/Specific_508_00_509_00_0W-20_%28GB%29.pdf?1492182230

Both of these are readily available in the aftermarket. About $60/5L. Judging by the pour point and the pricing, I think these oils may be mostly PAO.
 
@oil_film_movies and @The Critic: 508 being available on the shelves = on the shelves at WM, AAP oil change special, etc for $25/5qt.

@oil_film_moves, most of the engines on that list were developed for 3.5 HTHS. It's safe to say that's what's optimum and most people aren't going to bother with a couple % etc fuel economy.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Not surprised. The Euros moved to HTHS < 3.5 some time ago. For example BMW LL04 was replaced by LL12FE.


Only in USA.
In Europe, all are still on LL04.
 
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
We mostly run vw504/507....BMW LL-04...MB 229.51/52 over here... Low saps formulations but with HTHS 3.5+....thats like 90% of the market here...

This is the US thing. CAFE requirements are driving this.
 
Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
@oil_film_movies and @The Critic: 508 being available on the shelves = on the shelves at WM, AAP oil change special, etc for $25/5qt.
Go mail order. Amazon brought me a sealed box of Eneos a while back in 2 days, free shipping. Easier than being emotionally wedded to "gotta be on a shelf".

Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
@oil_film_moves, most of the engines on that list were developed for 3.5 HTHS. It's safe to say that's what's optimum and most people aren't going to bother with a couple % etc fuel economy.
It's twice what you say. ... Going from HTHS 2.7 ---> 3.5 means 4% difference in power and fuel economy. ... Over a lifetime of 200,000 miles, that means about $1,000 more in your pocket & more peak power available. For that, there might be about 5%-10% difference in iron wear. Very little difference in wear.

The ONLY time I can think of when you need to go up about +0.5 in HTHS is when you are racing or towing, or have known fuel dilution problems. Otherwise, it actually makes more sense to go with the manufacturer's HTHS recommendation in the Owner's Manual. .... Imagine that, trusting the maker's engineers for this !!!
beer3.gif
 
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
If it can't just run API standard oils its always been dead to me!


That's totally understandable, considering that aside from the dealer you can only find Euro spec oils in a very few extremely isolated and remote locations such as Advance Auto, AutoZone, and Walmart. Then factor in having to actually open and read the owners manual?
That's way too inconvenient for me.

crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
@oil_film_movies and @The Critic: 508 being available on the shelves = on the shelves at WM, AAP oil change special, etc for $25/5qt.
Go mail order. Amazon brought me a sealed box of Eneos a while back in 2 days, free shipping. Easier than being emotionally wedded to "gotta be on a shelf".

Originally Posted by vinu_neuro
@oil_film_moves, most of the engines on that list were developed for 3.5 HTHS. It's safe to say that's what's optimum and most people aren't going to bother with a couple % etc fuel economy.
It's twice what you say. ... Going from HTHS 2.7 ---> 3.5 means 4% difference in power and fuel economy. ... Over a lifetime of 200,000 miles, that means about $1,000 more in your pocket & more peak power available. For that, there might be about 5%-10% difference in iron wear. Very little difference in wear.

The ONLY time I can think of when you need to go up about +0.5 in HTHS is when you are racing or towing, or have known fuel dilution problems. Otherwise, it actually makes more sense to go with the manufacturer's HTHS recommendation in the Owner's Manual. .... Imagine that, trusting the maker's engineers for this !!!
beer3.gif


Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[Go mail order. Amazon brought me a sealed box of Eneos a while back in 2 days, free shipping. Easier than being emotionally wedded to "gotta be on a shelf".


Euro oil on Amazon is more expensive than WM.
 
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