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Replacement auto glass survey about quality

Posted By: Reddy45

Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 03:52 PM

From July/August 2018 issue of AGRR magazine:

[Linked Image from therightshine.com]

(source: https://mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?i=515056#{%22issue_id%22:515056,%22page%22:34})


My guess: The automakers are spec'ing thinner glass on newer vehicles to save weight. Thinner glass cracks easier. OE glass plants can't meet demand, market gets flooded with cheap quality glass (Xinyi/XYG DOT 563 junk).


You can even check AliBaba and see how cheap windshields can be had nowadays. Link
Posted By: hallstevenson

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 04:30 PM

Hmmmm, my summary of that....

Glass quality appears to be going down - Yes (majority answer)
Glass prices are lower - Yes (majority answer)
You use these cheaper options more - Yes (majority answer).

Suppliers offer lower quality glass at cheaper prices and the demand for them increases.
Posted By: CBR.worm

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 04:58 PM

As long as I have the option to get the better glass, I'm glad lower priced glass is available.
Posted By: Pelican

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 05:15 PM

Another example of people who know "the price of everything and the value of nothing" (Oscar Wilde)

The cheap ones if not made in China are locally made, but as someone said with thinner glass and I might add with optical distortion, both are dangerous to oneself and others.
Posted By: danez_yoda

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by CBR.worm
As long as I have the option to get the better glass, I'm glad lower priced glass is available.



This is what they said about the independent shops when Walmart first came to town. Sooner than later you won't have a choice.
Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 06:37 PM

I just had the windshield replaced in my 2002 Camaro that I'm picky about. Had a body shop that works on $100k+ classics make a recommendation on a glass installer.
Long time independent shop. Owner came out to help his worker. I had indicated to him I was willing to pay for top glass. Didn't want Chinese glass.
He related to me that the top U.S. glass companies have been bought out by Chinese industrialists (or one industrialist, don't remember). There have apparently been culture shocks on both sides. I'm not sure if quality has been impacted, but I have no doubt it will be.
So I think I ended up with U.S. made Chinese glass. That statement about not having a choice may be true sooner than later.
Posted By: hallstevenson

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by ArrestMeRedZ
He related to me that the top U.S. glass companies have been bought out by Chinese industrialists (or one industrialist, don't remember). There have apparently been culture shocks on both sides. I'm not sure if quality has been impacted, but I have no doubt it will be.
So I think I ended up with U.S. made Chinese glass. That statement about not having a choice may be true sooner than later.

Fuyao ? They have a plant here (SW Ohio). They buy glass sheets from American suppliers and "form" these into finished products. They make OEM glass for Honda, Ford, BMW, etc, etc and also make aftermarket glass. The processes, raw materials, etc are the same whether it's OEM or aftermarket....
Posted By: Reddy45

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by ArrestMeRedZ
I just had the windshield replaced in my 2002 Camaro that I'm picky about. Had a body shop that works on $100k+ classics make a recommendation on a glass installer.
Long time independent shop. Owner came out to help his worker. I had indicated to him I was willing to pay for top glass. Didn't want Chinese glass.
He related to me that the top U.S. glass companies have been bought out by Chinese industrialists (or one industrialist, don't remember). There have apparently been culture shocks on both sides. I'm not sure if quality has been impacted, but I have no doubt it will be.
So I think I ended up with U.S. made Chinese glass. That statement about not having a choice may be true sooner than later.



Nowadays the brand names etched into the glass don't really mean much.

PPG is no longer in the business. They were renamed to PGW and I believe are currently owned by LKQ Corp. If you buy any PGW windshields now, they all seem to have a DOT563 mfr code which is XYG based out of China.

Pilkington was bought by Nippon Sheet Glass, which is potentially OK since NSG still makes decent quality glass in their Japanese plants.

Fuyao is the one you're probably talking about where the Chinese billionaire owner opened up a plant in Ohio to produce glass here. Some of their stuff is OK, some of it is meh. I detailed a Honda Civic recently that had an OEM Honda windshield made by Fuyao and it was flawless. The Fuyao windshield on my vehicle has terrible distortion at the edges.


Frankly it seems like Ford and Carlex are the only ones not impacted yet. I've started looking to see which cars in the grocery parking lot have replacement glass and Fords rarely seem to. My previous vehicle, an F150, managed to keep the OEM windshield for 13 years until I sold it. Tons of 'speckling' from road debris but no chips or cracks.

Similarly, a friend of mine has a Nissan Titan which also has Carlex glass and it has been through dozens of hail storms and no cracks or bullseyes.
Posted By: maxdustington

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Reddy45
My guess: The automakers are spec'ing thinner glass on newer vehicles to save weight. Thinner glass cracks easier. OE glass plants can't meet demand, market gets flooded with cheap quality glass (Xinyi/XYG DOT 563 junk).

Originally Posted by Pelican
The cheap ones if not made in China are locally made, but as someone said with thinner glass and I might add with optical distortion, both are dangerous to oneself and others.
But....but.....but China makes quality stuff like IPhones. Evil Western companies are the ones who force them to make garbage, they are to blame!
Posted By: Reddy45

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Reddy45
My guess: The automakers are spec'ing thinner glass on newer vehicles to save weight. Thinner glass cracks easier. OE glass plants can't meet demand, market gets flooded with cheap quality glass (Xinyi/XYG DOT 563 junk).

Originally Posted by Pelican
The cheap ones if not made in China are locally made, but as someone said with thinner glass and I might add with optical distortion, both are dangerous to oneself and others.
But....but.....but China makes quality stuff like IPhones. Evil Western companies are the ones who force them to make garbage, they are to blame!


I have no idea what your angle is but you aren't adding to the discussion.
Posted By: Donald

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 08:01 PM

I go to Safelite. Isn't theirs OEM quality?

They just filled a very tiny chip. Not sure if it would every expand, but why chance it since its insured and no deductible for glass.

At first I thought it was a spec of dirt.
Posted By: Ed_Flecko

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Donald
I go to Safelite. Isn't theirs OEM quality?

They just filled a very tiny chip. Not sure if it would every expand, but why chance it since its insured and no deductible for glass.

At first I thought it was a spec of dirt.


I have *heard* that Safelite is low quality $%^&, but *I* have no first-hand experience.

Ed
Posted By: Ethan1

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted by Donald
I go to Safelite. Isn't theirs OEM quality?

They just filled a very tiny chip. Not sure if it would every expand, but why chance it since its insured and no deductible for glass.

At first I thought it was a spec of dirt.


I have *heard* that Safelite is low quality $%^&, but *I* have no first-hand experience.

Ed


I have plenty of first-hand experience. Every time a customer comes to me with their roof and/or a-pillars rotted out, I ask “Which Safelite did your windshield?”. (So far, it has indeed been Safelite every. single. time.)
Posted By: Gebo

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 09:24 PM

Where do we go to get quality replacement windshields?
Posted By: AZjeff

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 10:47 PM

The Fuyao replacement windshield in the '14 RAV4 is no way OEM quality and neither was the Pilkington windshield put in the now gone '16 Silverado. After being assured by 2 different glass shops of OEM quality and getting distorted garbage I'll pay whatever extra is necessary for genuine mfg glass from now on. Some people just don't see distortion, I do.

Gebo - you pony up for a Lexus brand windshield.
Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 11:12 PM

Safelite stopped making their own glass a few years ago, and the quality has gone down from THAT? crzy

Now, they mostly use Fuyao (DOT459) and Xinyi (DOT563). Fuyao is good, Xinyi is not.

The glass Fuyao makes for the 4th gen Maxima is identical to the original glass, which was made by PPG when they were still good.

The glass Fuyao makes for the Mk1 Focus is also good quality, but the tint band is kind of weird and short. It was installed by Safelite on site, not mobile.

Fuyao is the OE glass supplier to the MD Elantra. Again, no problems

The glass Xinyi makes for the 4th gen Camaro/Firebird is awful! It scratches too easily, and get stressed out just by the wipers!
Posted By: Gebo

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by AZjeff
The Fuyao replacement windshield in the '14 RAV4 is no way OEM quality and neither was the Pilkington windshield put in the now gone '16 Silverado. After being assured by 2 different glass shops of OEM quality and getting distorted garbage I'll pay whatever extra is necessary for genuine mfg glass from now on. Some people just don't see distortion, I do.

Gebo - you pony up for a Lexus brand windshield.


I’m scared that may be a Clydesdale
grin
Posted By: Reddy45

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/02/19 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by AZjeff
The Fuyao replacement windshield in the '14 RAV4 is no way OEM quality and neither was the Pilkington windshield put in the now gone '16 Silverado. After being assured by 2 different glass shops of OEM quality and getting distorted garbage I'll pay whatever extra is necessary for genuine mfg glass from now on. Some people just don't see distortion, I do.

Gebo - you pony up for a Lexus brand windshield.



I have come to the same conclusion Jeff. When my current Fuyao glass gets worn or cracks, I'm going to pony up for OEM glass.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/03/19 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Reddy45

PPG is no longer in the business. They were renamed to PGW and I believe are currently owned by LKQ Corp. If you buy any PGW windshields now, they all seem to have a DOT563 mfr code which is XYG based out of China.

Pilkington was bought by Nippon Sheet Glass, which is potentially OK since NSG still makes decent quality glass in their Japanese plants.

Fuyao is the one you're probably talking about where the Chinese billionaire owner opened up a plant in Ohio to produce glass here. Some of their stuff is OK, some of it is meh. I detailed a Honda Civic recently that had an OEM Honda windshield made by Fuyao and it was flawless. The Fuyao windshield on my vehicle has terrible distortion at the edges.





Fuyao/FYG's Ohio plant was the former GM Moraine plant. FYG has been winning OEM contracts left and right from GM, Hyundai, Honda, Subaru and VW. Even BMW and Mercedes are using FYG glass. I think I've seen Toyota-marked FYG glass on a new Avalon, but Toyota is usually very loyal to Asahi Glass. The FYG on my parent's car is OK, some distortion at the edges. The OE rain-sensing wipers don't work right, as they still wipe with a bone dry windshield. I blame the Safelite hack for trying to reuse the OEM rain sensor without installing a new gel pad.

PGW's OEM arm is now part of Vitro who also bought out the remainder of PPG's glass business. LKQ and Vitro worked out of a deal that the former buys more glass from the latter in order to use their trademark. Vitro is OEM on Mexican GM/Ford and Nissans.

Safelite has improved the quality of their installs like banning long knives and using Sika 30-minute drive-away time adhesive but they still cut a few corners here and there. But, it must be a fluke that the last two times I've called Safelite for glass, Pilkington windshields were installed? A Safelite tech said XYG/Benson is junk. I was on a bus that used XYG glass for its windows - you can see the visual distortion on what should be a perfectly flat pane of glass. I've been in cars with AutoTemp or XYG side windows. If the tint(the OEM-style UV-reducing or privacy green/blue/gray tint) doesn't match, it's the distortions that you can see.
Posted By: AZjeff

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/04/19 11:56 AM

Be willing to bet that Fuyao OEM glass has higher quality standards than Fuyao aftermarket glass.
Posted By: odotb

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/08/19 12:36 PM

Wife had just bought a new Accord and after a few weeks windshield cracked in the corner. We hadn't hit anything, so back to the dealership I go. I am told that something must have hit the trim around the edge of the windshield. Stupid me says OK and called up a company that used Pilkington glass. Guy comes out removes OEM windshield and tells me you have a defective windshield from the factory, happens sometimes. They install new one, everything looks good until I ride in the back seat, got distortion right in the middle of the new shield, about baseball size. All glass is Chinese glass now and no way is it as good as the old USA stuff. JMHO
Posted By: Breemania

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/08/19 03:17 PM

AWESOME, Gotta love "Frank" Zappa! Thanks for that Quote. cool
Posted By: tahoe_hybrid

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/08/19 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Reddy45
My guess: The automakers are spec'ing thinner glass on newer vehicles to save weight. Thinner glass cracks easier. OE glass plants can't meet demand, market gets flooded with cheap quality glass (Xinyi/XYG DOT 563 junk).

Originally Posted by Pelican
The cheap ones if not made in China are locally made, but as someone said with thinner glass and I might add with optical distortion, both are dangerous to oneself and others.
But....but.....but China makes quality stuff like IPhones. Evil Western companies are the ones who force them to make garbage, they are to blame!

iphones suck and are of the poorest quality
thing you can buy is something made by apple (see power cables/batteries that catch fire yes they sweep it under the rug..

they just recalled almost 1/2 million macbooks for battery fires I guess they have not learned their less yet
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/08/19 03:55 PM

They should check for distortion before installing the windshield but that might be asking too much.

What do iPhones have to do with this discussion?

👹🛥🎣
Posted By: Pew

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/08/19 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted by Donald
I go to Safelite. Isn't theirs OEM quality?

They just filled a very tiny chip. Not sure if it would every expand, but why chance it since its insured and no deductible for glass.

At first I thought it was a spec of dirt.


I have *heard* that Safelite is low quality $%^&, but *I* have no first-hand experience.

Ed


The tint shop I went to used safelite to replace my rear windshield when they ripped off the copper lines. There's VERY noticeable distortion when you just move your head vertically.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/09/19 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted by Donald
I go to Safelite. Isn't theirs OEM quality?

They just filled a very tiny chip. Not sure if it would every expand, but why chance it since its insured and no deductible for glass.

At first I thought it was a spec of dirt.


I have *heard* that Safelite is low quality $%^&, but *I* have no first-hand experience.

Ed

Safelite's in-house glass is junk. My parents had one installed and it was thin and had little UV protection leading to a prematurely faded interior. Safelite now uses 3rd party glass but the quality has been hit or miss. All the Pilkingtons I've had them install seem to be OK. Some edge distortion by the A-pillars but forward vision is fine.
Posted By: jakewells

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/09/19 05:06 PM

safelite is a joke and plus the installs are poorly done have not seen one done right yet.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/09/19 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by AZjeff
Be willing to bet that Fuyao OEM glass has higher quality standards than Fuyao aftermarket glass.


+1 Genuine only.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/09/19 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by jakewells
safelite is a joke and plus the installs are poorly done have not seen one done right yet.

they've done a few things like banning long knives to take out glass to help reduce damage to trim and pinchwelds but they still cut corners by not pulling cowls. I've seen them stock more OEM windshields and using a Bosch ADAS calibration tool lately. I had go to there a month ago and I've seen a few new Honda and Subaru OEM windshields on their racks.

I have a funny suspicion my windshield wasn't installed properly since the cowl wasn't pulled but they used a wire and pulley tool to cut out the old glass. They're also using Sika's Sikatack Mach 30 urethane.

While Safelite can be hit or miss, I'd still trust them than some guy working out of a truck installing cheap glass with Chinese urethane. I shoulda had All Star Glass replace my windshield or a house visit from Safelite instead. Insurance companies are in bed with Safelite for claims processing or replacements.

This guy's blog is a pretty interesting read: https://trenches.agrrmag.com/tag/agrr/
Posted By: littlehulkster

Re: Replacement auto glass survey about quality - 09/09/19 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Reddy45
My guess: The automakers are spec'ing thinner glass on newer vehicles to save weight. Thinner glass cracks easier. OE glass plants can't meet demand, market gets flooded with cheap quality glass (Xinyi/XYG DOT 563 junk).

Originally Posted by Pelican
The cheap ones if not made in China are locally made, but as someone said with thinner glass and I might add with optical distortion, both are dangerous to oneself and others.
But....but.....but China makes quality stuff like IPhones. Evil Western companies are the ones who force them to make garbage, they are to blame!


The Chinese put people in space.

Do you really think they couldn't build a decent piece of glass?

It's almost like they choose to make cheap glass because cheap glass was a gap in the market that they were well positioned to fill, whereas competing in the premium glass market would not have been worth it for them, for a wide variety of reasons.
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