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Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine?

Posted By: double vanos

Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 05:56 PM

Fords new 7.3 liter engine for their HD trucks. Doesn’t look like an OHC engine to me...

Attached picture 7D32FF87-A008-4C38-93E7-309135CB9198.png
Posted By: double vanos

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:01 PM

Forgot to add that I just got this from automotive news. Far cry from their OHC offerings. When I bought my ‘11 FX4 you could get the 6.2 OHC engine as an option.
Hope this isn’t old news.
Posted By: E365

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:01 PM

It is a cam-in-block, “pushrod” design. Not nold news - it was just revealed today.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...ies-super-duty/7.3_Engine_Fact_Sheet.pdf

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...-super-duty-pickup-raises-bar-again.html
Posted By: StevieC

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:05 PM

Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:10 PM

Yeah … I’m getting blocked from the server due to Russian collusion country I’m in … but this says pushrod



What’s he got, breaux ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dNE8KjQAZhg

Attached picture C90A9C26-4EF8-41B8-AA02-00471262B19F.png
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:23 PM

Nothing wrong with pushrod engines. Like any engineering solutions, they have their advantages and disadvantages. OHC engines, although seen as modern, have a lot of disadvantages that keeps the pushrod engines employed to this day.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Nothing wrong with pushrod engines. Like any engineering solutions, they have their advantages and disadvantages. OHC engines, although seen as modern, have a lot of disadvantages that keeps the pushrod engines employed to this day.


There's something to be said for the simplicity and reliability of pushrod mills. GM's success with the LSx family, and its compact nature, as well as Mopar's HEMI have proven it isn't obsolete yet. I couldn't imagine trying to turn a wrench on a comparable displacement OHC mill in my Jeep crzy
Posted By: Tman220

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 06:49 PM

The new 7.3 is indeed a pushrod engine. Cheap, simple, and plenty efficient for the rpm range they will be operating.
Posted By: JLTD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 07:06 PM

Yep, yep, and yep. Low end torque, lighter (to increase available payload for one), simple reliability and proven design durability. They'll probably put a 5w40 in it and never look back.
Posted By: Danno

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 08:01 PM

I take it the power ratings haven't been released for the 7.3L gas or the Gen 3 6.7L diesel ?
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 08:15 PM

I'm curious to see how this engine does. I'll probably be in the truck market in a few years.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by JLTD
Yep, yep, and yep. Low end torque, lighter (to increase available payload for one), simple reliability and proven design durability. They'll probably put a 5w40 in it and never look back.

Oil cap in the video I watched showed 5w-30.
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Danno
I take it the power ratings haven't been released for the 7.3L gas or the Gen 3 6.7L diesel ?


Negative but the new 6.7 is rumored to be in the 500hp and 1000+ft-lb range.
Posted By: 02SE

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danno
I take it the power ratings haven't been released for the 7.3L gas or the Gen 3 6.7L diesel ?


Now that RAM and GM have released their power and towing numbers, Ford will undoubtedly claim more.
Posted By: racin4ds

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:00 PM

This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.
Posted By: CT8

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:01 PM

Push rod engines are nicer.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.

Not everyone hauls 20k lbs every day. A more powerful gasser is the ticket. The operating cost are much higher for a diesel. Back when diesel was cheaper than gas you may have made the numbers work. Now diesel is $.60-.80 higher than gas. Never mind DEF, particulate filters, and all the other nonsense on diesels now.

I also had a 6.0. It was used to pull duel tandam 20k trailers every day. It got less than 10 mpgs pulling a load. I'm going to question your loaded mpg numbers.
Posted By: ZX11Rebel

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:12 PM

The pushrod engine came after OHC engines. So,OHC engines are out of date:)
Posted By: 02SE

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by racin4ds
The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L



I guess that depends on your criteria. GM has had 637 CI V8, and 702 CI V12 gas truck engines. Albeit in medium duty trucks.
Posted By: grampi

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:16 PM

Big cubic inch pushrod motors rule!
Posted By: user52165

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 09:40 PM

FWIW - Over 100 million SBC engines have been built............................

and still being built today.
Posted By: E365

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 10:05 PM

This will probably be an amazing engine-swap down the road once they hit the junk yards in crashed trucks. Iron block, port injection, 7.3 liters plus an aftermarket twin turbo kit. Massive power and torque!
Posted By: 14Accent

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 10:07 PM

Looks to be a beast, I would say 500 horse 575 torque are modest estimates. Big displacement, likely long stroke, cast iron block with cross-bolted mains and a gear-driven timing setup with VVT. I dig it.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 10:18 PM

Commercial operators are going to love this engine (assuming it proves reliable).
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 10:42 PM

It almost looks like a carbon copy of the SBC too, unless Ford went back into the history books and looked up the 5.0/5.8L OHV V8s they made years ago.

And I thought Ford was a big proponent of overhead cam power too?
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by nthach
It almost looks like a carbon copy of the SBC too, unless Ford went back into the history books and looked up the 5.0/5.8L OHV V8s they made years ago.

And I thought Ford was a big proponent of overhead cam power too?


I don't find it bears any resemblance to the SBC? It doesn't have siamesed ports, if anything I think it looks more like the FR9:
[Linked Image]

Considering the inspiration for the Modular was the 427SOHC, I don't think it would be surprising if their efforts for another pushrod mill resemble the Windsor.

And yes, Ford has put a lot of effort into OHC V8's since the 1990's, but they have brought with them their own suite of issues.
Posted By: Vern_in_IL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.

Not everyone hauls 20k lbs every day. A more powerful gasser is the ticket. The operating cost are much higher for a diesel. Back when diesel was cheaper than gas you may have made the numbers work. Now diesel is $.60-.80 higher than gas. Never mind DEF, particulate filters, and all the other nonsense on diesels now.

I also had a 6.0. It was used to pull duel tandam 20k trailers every day. It got less than 10 mpgs pulling a load. I'm going to question your loaded mpg numbers.


Diesels were literally regulated out of the market! Started with Low Sulfur fuel, idiots didn't want to see Big Rigs rolling coal, and yes diesel should be cheaper than gas.
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by nthach
It almost looks like a carbon copy of the SBC too, unless Ford went back into the history books and looked up the 5.0/5.8L OHV V8s they made years ago.

And I thought Ford was a big proponent of overhead cam power too?


They are for the most part. However trying to make a tall deck big bore DOHC V8 isn't very do-able in any modern application as far as packaging goes.
Posted By: joekingcorvette

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 11:23 PM

I like push rod engines and this looks like a winner! It looks like the spark plugs are easy to change. banana
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/05/19 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I don't find it bears any resemblance to the SBC? It doesn't have siamesed ports, if anything I think it looks more like the FR9:
[Linked Image]


slobber the FR9 is so sexy. They have one at the NASCAR Hall of Fame and I was fogging the glass looking at it.
Posted By: Kruse

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:02 AM

I'm going to guess that if they can get this engine past 150K miles without the exhaust manifold bolts breaking off.......it will be a winner.
Posted By: Cujet

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:10 AM

Looks like that new 7.3L gas engine will be seeing school bus duty.
Posted By: CT8

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by E365

I herd the rumor when I bought the wife her new truck.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Cujet
Looks like that new 7.3L gas engine will be seeing school bus duty.

If Ford doesn't kill off the Econoline cutaway chassis, I can see that. The Transit is making a slow entry into the school bus market.

I can see lots of paratransit vans using these as well.
Posted By: mbacfp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:28 AM

Glad to see the V8 making its return to the Raptor. Dodge is also rumored to have a 426 coming out. Something about big block V8s...enjoy them while they last. Really loving the 6.2 supercharged Hemi with the A8 transmission. Take care all.
Posted By: Jarlaxle

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Cujet
Looks like that new 7.3L gas engine will be seeing school bus duty.

If Ford doesn't kill off the Econoline cutaway chassis, I can see that. The Transit is making a slow entry into the school bus market.

I can see lots of paratransit vans using these as well.

Doubt it...the Transit already has its own line of engines.
Posted By: spk2000

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 12:42 AM

I have a friend that works at KTP - Ford plant as a product development engineer in Louisville and he showed me this engine a few months back. Kind of interesting how they camo and hide everything even in the plant. He is really bragging this motor up saying it is much better than the old gasser it is replacing. Surprised me how much back pressure this engine produce on our exhaust system. Clamp of old exhaust was not strong enough and broke loose. They measured over 1,500 lbs of back pressure on the exhaust system.
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Nothing wrong with pushrod engines. Like any engineering solutions, they have their advantages and disadvantages. OHC engines, although seen as modern, have a lot of disadvantages that keeps the pushrod engines employed to this day.


There's something to be said for the simplicity and reliability of pushrod mills. GM's success with the LSx family, and its compact nature, as well as Mopar's HEMI have proven it isn't obsolete yet. I couldn't imagine trying to turn a wrench on a comparable displacement OHC mill in my Jeep crzy


My understanding is OHC is more advantageous in high revving engines . Typically , diesel engines are lower revving , where push rod system is fine .
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by spk2000
I have a friend that works at KTP - Ford plant as a product development engineer in Louisville and he showed me this engine a few months back. Kind of interesting how they camo and hide everything even in the plant. He is really bragging this motor up saying it is much better than the old gasser it is replacing. Surprised me how much back pressure this engine produce on our exhaust system. Clamp of old exhaust was not strong enough and broke loose. They measured over 1,500 lbs of back pressure on the exhaust system.


Before or after the turbo ?
Posted By: UncleDave

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 02:15 AM

This is great something modern with some big grunt that gets around all the diesel complexity and bolt on windmills.

A modern big pushrod mill with variable timing and a high BSFC sounds like a killer package.

Mated to a wide 10 speed it could get decent mileage.

UD
Posted By: leeaspell

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 02:49 AM

.

Attached picture eFfmdb3.jpg
Posted By: Gasbuggy

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 10:29 AM

Ford LS swapping at the factory now. LOL
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by ZX11Rebel
The pushrod engine came after OHC engines. So,OHC engines are out of date:)


I was going to state this.
Posted By: JLTD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by JLTD
Yep, yep, and yep. Low end torque, lighter (to increase available payload for one), simple reliability and proven design durability. They'll probably put a 5w40 in it and never look back.

Oil cap in the video I watched showed 5w-30.


Thanks, I missed that detail.
Posted By: Brigadier

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.


When my dad bought his 2002 Silverado 2500HD, he chose the 8.1L gas engine. I asked him the same question - why not buy the diesel? He said that option was close to $7k at the time. He can buy a LOT of gas for $7k, and not have to deal with DEF fluid and DPFs and all that BS.
Posted By: supton

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.


When my dad bought his 2002 Silverado 2500HD, he chose the 8.1L gas engine. I asked him the same question - why not buy the diesel? He said that option was close to $7k at the time. He can buy a LOT of gas for $7k, and not have to deal with DEF fluid and DPFs and all that BS.

How does he feel now, 16-17 years later? Curious--sometimes our assumptions are right, sometimes not.
Posted By: BeerCan

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 04:39 PM

If mpg beats the 6.2 by just a little this will be in my next truck. Well, providing it has decent torque numbers.

I really want to move back to gasoline but I tow a lot. When I tow it is usually long distance and the 6.2 was oh so close to being my choice but it revved a little to much on grades.

Looks like a winner but time will tell.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/06/19 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.


When my dad bought his 2002 Silverado 2500HD, he chose the 8.1L gas engine. I asked him the same question - why not buy the diesel? He said that option was close to $7k at the time. He can buy a LOT of gas for $7k, and not have to deal with DEF fluid and DPFs and all that BS.


What? I don't recall DPF and DEF being in use for the 2002 model year of Duramax. Could be wrong, but I think I'm not.
Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/07/19 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.


When my dad bought his 2002 Silverado 2500HD, he chose the 8.1L gas engine. I asked him the same question - why not buy the diesel? He said that option was close to $7k at the time. He can buy a LOT of gas for $7k, and not have to deal with DEF fluid and DPFs and all that BS.


What? I don't recall DPF and DEF being in use for the 2002 model year of Duramax. Could be wrong, but I think I'm not.


DEF didn't happen until 2007 on the Duramax.
Posted By: Uphill_Both_Ways

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/07/19 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Nothing wrong with pushrod engines.
Nope. I swore off overhead-cam engines way back in the '70s.

My '72 Cortina with Ford's 2,000cc overhead belt-driven engine went through five belts — life-threatening on a multi-lane freeway or at 3 a.m. in January — and was due for a sixth when it bit the dust with 232,000 miles and change on the odometer. I think the Pinto used the same engine.

At least it wasn't a suicide engine — an interference engine. But it was a gigantic pain in the butt, especially since my job required a car.

From then on I swore I'd never get another car with an overhead-cam engine. That decision was reinforced with concrete and steel rods when belt-driven suicide engines were all the rage. I felt for sure the mob had taken over all the carmakers on Earth. Then I discovered that chain-driven overhead-cam engines could be just as bad.

Suicide-engine designers should be first against the wall. Overhead-cam engines themselves, suicide or not, should be second. I'll sell the peanuts and popcorn.

Pushrodz rool! and the bigger the better; there ain't no substitute for cubes.*

Now get off my lawn!

*Unless it's a battery good for 700 miles that takes five minutes to a full charge from dead and comes in a blister pack hanging on a hook next to the till in a dollar store.
Posted By: s2krunner

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/07/19 10:49 PM

Cant wait to see power and mpg
Posted By: Jarlaxle

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Uphill_Both_Ways
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Nothing wrong with pushrod engines.
Nope. I swore off overhead-cam engines way back in the '70s.

My '72 Cortina with Ford's 2,000cc overhead belt-driven engine went through five belts — life-threatening on a multi-lane freeway or at 3 a.m. in January — and was due for a sixth when it bit the dust with 232,000 miles and change on the odometer. I think the Pinto used the same engine.

At least it wasn't a suicide engine — an interference engine. But it was a gigantic pain in the butt, especially since my job required a car.

From then on I swore I'd never get another car with an overhead-cam engine. That decision was reinforced with concrete and steel rods when belt-driven suicide engines were all the rage. I felt for sure the mob had taken over all the carmakers on Earth. Then I discovered that chain-driven overhead-cam engines could be just as bad.

Suicide-engine designers should be first against the wall. Overhead-cam engines themselves, suicide or not, should be second. I'll sell the peanuts and popcorn.

Pushrodz rool! and the bigger the better; there ain't no substitute for cubes.*

Now get off my lawn!

*Unless it's a battery good for 700 miles that takes five minutes to a full charge from dead and comes in a blister pack hanging on a hook next to the till in a dollar store.

Dude...decaf.

And maybe Thorazine.
Posted By: jhellwig

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.


When my dad bought his 2002 Silverado 2500HD, he chose the 8.1L gas engine. I asked him the same question - why not buy the diesel? He said that option was close to $7k at the time. He can buy a LOT of gas for $7k, and not have to deal with DEF fluid and DPFs and all that BS.


What? I don't recall DPF and DEF being in use for the 2002 model year of Duramax. Could be wrong, but I think I'm not.


DEF didn't happen until 2007 on the Duramax.


2011 for Def. Particulate filter happend in 2007.
Posted By: tig1

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by JLTD
Yep, yep, and yep. Low end torque, lighter (to increase available payload for one), simple reliability and proven design durability. They'll probably put a 5w40 in it and never look back.


GM is calling for 0-20 in their big block engines.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by WyrTwister
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Nothing wrong with pushrod engines. Like any engineering solutions, they have their advantages and disadvantages. OHC engines, although seen as modern, have a lot of disadvantages that keeps the pushrod engines employed to this day.


There's something to be said for the simplicity and reliability of pushrod mills. GM's success with the LSx family, and its compact nature, as well as Mopar's HEMI have proven it isn't obsolete yet. I couldn't imagine trying to turn a wrench on a comparable displacement OHC mill in my Jeep crzy


My understanding is OHC is more advantageous in high revving engines . Typically , diesel engines are lower revving , where push rod system is fine .


Both my diesels are OHC, one of them, and the one that I bought in 2003 were DOHC
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

Dude...decaf.

And maybe Thorazine.


Coffee2

Thank you for the laugh lol
Posted By: Uphill_Both_Ways

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Dude...decaf.

And maybe Thorazine.


Had to look up Thorazine because I didn't know what it is.

And neither did I.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/08/19 06:53 PM

GM and Ram have pushrod engines about time Ford got on board.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/09/19 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by JLTD
Yep, yep, and yep. Low end torque, lighter (to increase available payload for one), simple reliability and proven design durability. They'll probably put a 5w40 in it and never look back.


GM is calling for 0-20 in their big block engines.


GM doesn't make any big block engines anymore.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by JLTD
Yep, yep, and yep. Low end torque, lighter (to increase available payload for one), simple reliability and proven design durability. They'll probably put a 5w40 in it and never look back.


GM is calling for 0-20 in their big block engines.


GM doesn't make any big block engines anymore.

And their work truck 6.0 calls for 5w-30 as of 2018.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by UncleDave
This is great something modern with some big grunt that gets around all the diesel complexity and bolt on windmills.

A modern big pushrod mill with variable timing and a high BSFC sounds like a killer package.

Mated to a wide 10 speed it could get decent mileage.

UD

thumbsup
Posted By: CT8

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 01:57 AM

460 Fords were the good old days now we are returning back to the big block gas engines.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 02:02 AM

Nothing wrong with a Stone age style understressed big inch engine.

I'd love to see this bad boy get marinized. Would be quite the boat engine.
Posted By: Gasbuggy

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 09:55 AM

[img]https://svtperformance.com/attachments/screenshot_20190205-154058__01-jpeg.1549500/[/img]

click for the image not sure why BITOG embed can't display it
Posted By: Miller88

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 02:57 PM

I wonder if it's an evolution of the Modular? It has already been confirmed that it has the Modular bellhousing pattern so swapping it into thinks give you a wide range of transmissions. Honestly I think we're going to see more of this. Navistar is offering a punched out rebuilt 8100 in their medium duty trucks now, Ford reintroduced the 6.8 in their 650 a while back and it's popular.


With how expensive modern diesels are getting (buy in cost, $600 injectors, extremely complicated injection system, >$10K if someone puts diesel in the DEF) it's no surprise that people are picking big gas engines for medium duty. With proper gearing they'll pull almost as good and the lower buyin cost, lower maintenance will more than pay for the single digit mileage.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/10/19 03:23 PM

I'm surprised it took this long. Modern BS laden diesels, along with high diesel fuel prices, make little sense for anyone not towing a lot on a regular basis. A modern but basic designed bulletproof gas engine is going to be a good seller.

https://www.government-fleet.com/15...nvestment-only-fleet-managers-know-about
Posted By: wtd

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/11/19 04:15 PM

I'm not the biggest Ford fan in the world but this sounds like it's going to be a nice engine. I can't wait to see some real world results.
Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/11/19 05:14 PM

A DOHC 7.3L V8 would be huge! crzy
Posted By: BigShug681

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/11/19 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by racin4ds
This should be a HORSE of an engine. Fords V10 was only a 6.8L mill if I recall. The Biggest gas truck engine to date was the GM 8.1L I just don't see the need for such a large gas engine that will undoubtedly get horrible economy. Why not just buy a diesel if you require this much towing capability?

My notoriously hated 05 PSD with the 6.0 averaged 15-16-mpg loaded to the gills hauling a 3 horse trailer with living quarters, 3 fat mares, tons of excess junk and other items when we moved from WV to Florida, over 975 miles.

The 6.0 is one of the most underrated diesels out there love mine and itl pull the neighbors house off the foundation if I let it. They may not like abuse as much as a Cummins but man can they move
Posted By: Jarlaxle

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/12/19 01:49 AM

The 6.0 is one of the biggest turds ever dumped on an unsuspecting public. It is the engine that has turned all-Ford fleets to NO-Ford fleets.
Posted By: mbacfp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/12/19 02:24 AM

After market shops have made the 6.0 pretty reliable...not so much from Ford. A family member had a construction company and I remember problems with the 6.0 and 6.4 diesels. 6.7s have been pretty good from what I know.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/12/19 06:25 AM

The 6.0 is rated exactly as it deserves. Easily the worst diesel engine of the modern age. Maybe the worst engine period. Private owners and vendors of 6.0 products swear it's not bad.

Ford and repair pros know its garbage.
Posted By: BigShug681

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/12/19 01:48 PM

Right, the 6.0 is such a turd and that’s why Jesse Warren placed 5th in the UCC using a 6.0 back in 2017 shrug
Posted By: BeerCan

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/12/19 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by BigShug681
Right, the 6.0 is such a turd and that’s why Jesse Warren placed 5th in the UCC using a 6.0 back in 2017 shrug

can't use a highly modified engine to compare to the ones fleet owners used. The fleet people I know still curse a blue streak when you talk about the 6.0
Posted By: Jarlaxle

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/12/19 11:06 PM

I watched it turn one fleet from all Fords to never buying another Ford diesel, and another from all-Ford to never buying another Ford.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/13/19 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by BigShug681
Right, the 6.0 is such a turd and that’s why Jesse Warren placed 5th in the UCC using a 6.0 back in 2017 shrug


I don't even need to look this truck up to know that it was heavily modified and loaded with parts that were not manufactured by Ford or Navistar.

It's not a phenomenon that almost any turdpile engine can be heavily modified into a winner.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/13/19 03:03 AM

I'm not going to argue the faults of the 6.0L Powerstroke, But I will say......A LOT of problems were caused by Owners & Mechanics alike not knowing what they were doing!
*Breaking EVERY electrical connector under the hood while replacing every part they "think" might be bad.
*Double stacking Injector sealing washers.
*Over-torquing the Injector hold downs.
*Replacing the HPOP for internal oil leaks.
*Replacing the turbo because a stuck unison ring.

And the list goes on & on, Costing the Customer or Themselves thousands of dollars!
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/13/19 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I'm not going to argue the faults of the 6.0L Powerstroke, But I will say......A LOT of problems were caused by Owners & Mechanics alike not knowing what they were doing!
*Breaking EVERY electrical connector under the hood while replacing every part they "think" might be bad.
*Double stacking Injector sealing washers.
*Over-torquing the Injector hold downs.
*Replacing the HPOP for internal oil leaks.
*Replacing the turbo because a stuck unison ring.

And the list goes on & on, Costing the Customer or Themselves thousands of dollars!

I can't remember what all the dealer replaced under warranty on my 6.0. I do know I didn't want to own it after the warranty was up.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/13/19 07:39 PM

A good point for sure, but the bulk of the 6.0 reputation was built on untouched 6.0 engines failing to make it a good distance before critical failure. Second reason being people learning that this was due to some very widespread incompetent engineering.

The ones we have dealt with all just had the usual 6.0 problems. STC fittings, dummy plugs, standpipes, IPR, ICP, EGR cooler, FICM, etc.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/13/19 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I'm not going to argue the faults of the 6.0L Powerstroke, But I will say......A LOT of problems were caused by Owners & Mechanics alike not knowing what they were doing!

*Replacing the HPOP for internal oil leaks.
*Replacing the turbo because a stuck unison ring.

And the list goes on & on, Costing the Customer or Themselves thousands of dollars!

Weren't people careless dumping in Lucas in the PSDs which would screw up the HPOP due to oil aeration and also suffer driveability problems? And wasn't the VGT turbo a complicated affair on the 6.0s, leading Ford/Navistar to go with a big-small twin turbo setup like a Japanese sports car?
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/14/19 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by nthach

Weren't people careless dumping in Lucas in the PSDs which would screw up the HPOP due to oil aeration and also suffer driveability problems? And wasn't the VGT turbo a complicated affair on the 6.0s, leading Ford/Navistar to go with a big-small twin turbo setup like a Japanese sports car?


I don't recall any failures from Lucas, But.....If I replace a HPOP or any work on the high pressure oil system outside of a ICP sensor, It's getting an oil change anyway! Lucas Oil Stabilizer usage could be a regional thing because I don't see it often??

The VGT Garrett Turbo on the 6.0L is VERY similar to the VGT Garrett found on LLY/LBZ/LMM Duramax trucks. They are pretty simple, Movable vanes connected to a unison ring that's oil actuated via solenoid is the only difference compared to a fixed turbo.
Duramax VGT"s can have issues with sticky vanes & unison rings as well, Just not near the frequency of the 6.0L's. I don't have a concrete theory as to why that is......But, My Duramax goes through "cleaning" cycles by opening & closing the VGT Solenoid any time the truck is idling in park.

The 6.4L Powerstroke Borg Warner compound set-up has one Turbo that's VGT.....Just a different approach to actuation vs the Garrett designs as it uses an electric motor.
Posted By: PotatoFarmer77w

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/16/19 01:20 AM

I see a spin on oil filter happy
Posted By: Colt45ws

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/17/19 08:11 PM

Mod motor bellhousing you say?
I found my engine swap for my Vic. Ill even lockout the VVT and run it with the Vic's EEC-V
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/17/19 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Mod motor bellhousing you say?
I found my engine swap for my Vic. Ill even lockout the VVT and run it with the Vic's EEC-V

It will probably be a pretty popular swap once the junkyards start to get a good supply of wrecked trucks.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/17/19 11:06 PM

The JY market is going to breath new life into a lot of old Ford's. Given the size of most mod motors, any car will not notice a big block pushrod motor in it.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/17/19 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
The JY market is going to breath new life into a lot of old Ford's. Given the size of most mod motors, any car will not notice a big block pushrod motor in it.

I doubt this engine will weigh as much as cast iron mods.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/17/19 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by 14Accent
Looks to be a beast, I would say 500 horse 575 torque are modest estimates. Big displacement, likely long stroke, cast iron block with cross-bolted mains and a gear-driven timing setup with VVT. I dig it.


I think it will be 400 HP, 460 ft*lbs. It's not tuned for power. Ford has said that they have limited fueling to stoichiometric at WOT for good fuel economy.

A low cost, simple engine makes a lot of sense for people that don't tow all the time. Diesel fuel cost is more than 30% higher than 87/89 octane gasoline these days. Diesel fuel economy suffers because of trap regens, and buying DEF adds to operating costs. The high cost of the diesel option has continued to spiral because of all the emissions controls. Basically there is no reason to buy diesel anymore. It may not even be cost-effective for people that tow all the time. I can't remember the last time I talked to an RV transporter with a late-model truck that hasn't DELETED the emissions controls. It's the only way to make money.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Looks to be a beast, I would say 500 horse 575 torque are modest estimates. Big displacement, likely long stroke, cast iron block with cross-bolted mains and a gear-driven timing setup with VVT. I dig it.


I think it will be 400 HP, 460 ft*lbs. It's not tuned for power. Ford has said that they have limited fueling to stoichiometric at WOT for good fuel economy.

A low cost, simple engine makes a lot of sense for people that don't tow all the time. Diesel fuel cost is more than 30% higher than 87/89 octane gasoline these days. Diesel fuel economy suffers because of trap regens, and buying DEF adds to operating costs. The high cost of the diesel option has continued to spiral because of all the emissions controls. Basically there is no reason to buy diesel anymore. It may not even be cost-effective for people that tow all the time. I can't remember the last time I talked to an RV transporter with a late-model truck that hasn't DELETED the emissions controls. It's the only way to make money.


That seems low. The MOPAR 6.4L in the HD trucks is 410HP/429lb-ft shrug
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Looks to be a beast, I would say 500 horse 575 torque are modest estimates. Big displacement, likely long stroke, cast iron block with cross-bolted mains and a gear-driven timing setup with VVT. I dig it.


I think it will be 400 HP, 460 ft*lbs. It's not tuned for power. Ford has said that they have limited fueling to stoichiometric at WOT for good fuel economy.

A low cost, simple engine makes a lot of sense for people that don't tow all the time. Diesel fuel cost is more than 30% higher than 87/89 octane gasoline these days. Diesel fuel economy suffers because of trap regens, and buying DEF adds to operating costs. The high cost of the diesel option has continued to spiral because of all the emissions controls. Basically there is no reason to buy diesel anymore. It may not even be cost-effective for people that tow all the time. I can't remember the last time I talked to an RV transporter with a late-model truck that hasn't DELETED the emissions controls. It's the only way to make money.


That seems low. The MOPAR 6.4L in the HD trucks is 410HP/429lb-ft shrug


Yeah, but the Ford's not a Hemi!
I'm keying off of the rating of GM's new 6.6L L8T engine: 401 HP @ 5200 rpm, 464 ft*lbs @ 4000 rpm. Then I take into account that the Ford is 10% larger displacement, then assume the stoichiometric tuning will cost 10% in power, thereby ending up about equivalent to GM's engine.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Looks to be a beast, I would say 500 horse 575 torque are modest estimates. Big displacement, likely long stroke, cast iron block with cross-bolted mains and a gear-driven timing setup with VVT. I dig it.


I think it will be 400 HP, 460 ft*lbs. It's not tuned for power. Ford has said that they have limited fueling to stoichiometric at WOT for good fuel economy.

A low cost, simple engine makes a lot of sense for people that don't tow all the time. Diesel fuel cost is more than 30% higher than 87/89 octane gasoline these days. Diesel fuel economy suffers because of trap regens, and buying DEF adds to operating costs. The high cost of the diesel option has continued to spiral because of all the emissions controls. Basically there is no reason to buy diesel anymore. It may not even be cost-effective for people that tow all the time. I can't remember the last time I talked to an RV transporter with a late-model truck that hasn't DELETED the emissions controls. It's the only way to make money.


That seems low. The MOPAR 6.4L in the HD trucks is 410HP/429lb-ft shrug


Yeah, but the Ford's not a Hemi!


LOL I'm surprised how much they get derated for HD usage. The 5.7L we just bought is 395HP/410lb-ft.
Posted By: leeaspell

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 04:08 AM

Do you think they went 7.3 for nostalgia and the great rep the old 7.3 diesel had? Maybe a bit of marketing involved there?
Posted By: Colt45ws

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
The JY market is going to breath new life into a lot of old Ford's. Given the size of most mod motors, any car will not notice a big block pushrod motor in it.

It might be a little longer than the 4.6 but probably nearly the same width. Only thing that concerns me is the height with that long runner intake. Need someone to design and make like a Vic Jr style intake for it and we will be in business. Lose some torque but it will not be in short supply I suspect and wont miss it. Itll tug my car around with authority.
Posted By: Falcon_LS

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 06:44 AM

An OHV engine with port injection - I love it!
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
The JY market is going to breath new life into a lot of old Ford's. Given the size of most mod motors, any car will not notice a big block pushrod motor in it.

It might be a little longer than the 4.6 but probably nearly the same width. Only thing that concerns me is the height with that long runner intake. Need someone to design and make like a Vic Jr style intake for it and we will be in business. Lose some torque but it will not be in short supply I suspect and wont miss it. Itll tug my car around with authority.


Given the amount of underpowered modular cars out there, I'd expect the aftermarket to respond.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Looks to be a beast, I would say 500 horse 575 torque are modest estimates. Big displacement, likely long stroke, cast iron block with cross-bolted mains and a gear-driven timing setup with VVT. I dig it.


I think it will be 400 HP, 460 ft*lbs. It's not tuned for power. Ford has said that they have limited fueling to stoichiometric at WOT for good fuel economy.

A low cost, simple engine makes a lot of sense for people that don't tow all the time. Diesel fuel cost is more than 30% higher than 87/89 octane gasoline these days. Diesel fuel economy suffers because of trap regens, and buying DEF adds to operating costs. The high cost of the diesel option has continued to spiral because of all the emissions controls. Basically there is no reason to buy diesel anymore. It may not even be cost-effective for people that tow all the time. I can't remember the last time I talked to an RV transporter with a late-model truck that hasn't DELETED the emissions controls. It's the only way to make money.


That seems low. The MOPAR 6.4L in the HD trucks is 410HP/429lb-ft shrug


You're going to want to wait and see how much and especially where the power is made. I'm going to expect this engine to make most of it's power down in the bucket. If it will make it's power low, high, and flat, and do it all day long with one's foot stuck in it then it will be worth it.
Posted By: 02SE

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 07:45 AM

Ford always likes to claim the most power, towing, etc. So I expect it will have better claimed power than the 6.4 Hemi.
Posted By: billt460

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 02/18/19 12:03 PM

Can those short ignition wires be replaced?
Posted By: das_peikko

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 03/10/19 06:16 AM

In the interest of long term reliability, the new 7.3 Liter V8 will have Multi Port Fuel Injection to keep the valves clean! smile2
Posted By: Linctex

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 03/10/19 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by billt460
Can those short ignition wires be replaced?



Please tell me .... why do you think they can't?
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 03/10/19 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by billt460
Can those short ignition wires be replaced?



Please tell me .... why do you think they can't?


Pretty sure that they aren't cast in situ...
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 03/10/19 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by billt460
Can those short ignition wires be replaced?


I see boots up at the tops of the wires, and they can definitely be removed from the spark plugs, so why not?
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 03/10/19 01:59 PM

If Ford equals the out put of 6.2 as far as per liter
Your looking at a 450hp / 500tq motor
I’m betting my money on those numbers 👍👍
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 03/10/19 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by billt460
Can those short ignition wires be replaced?


I see boots up at the tops of the wires, and they can definitely be removed from the spark plugs, so why not?


They sell them for the 6.2.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/01/19 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
If Ford equals the out put of 6.2 as far as per liter
Your looking at a 450hp / 500tq motor
I’m betting my money on those numbers 👍👍
430 HP 475 ft lb.

People are complaining about the numbers but forget it's a fleet engine, not a performance engine. With the 10 speed it should be pretty capable. I might be eyeing a 2022 F250.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...-gas-power-torque-heavy-duty-pickup.html
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by kstanf150
If Ford equals the out put of 6.2 as far as per liter
Your looking at a 450hp / 500tq motor
I’m betting my money on those numbers 👍👍
430 HP 475 ft lb.

People are complaining about the numbers but forget it's a fleet engine, not a performance engine. With the 10 speed it should be pretty capable. I might be eyeing a 2022 F250.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...-gas-power-torque-heavy-duty-pickup.html



Looks like it should have it's torque at low RPM band.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:35 AM

I was hoping for more but the flat tq curve looks really good for N/A engine

Attached picture 39DDE3BC-94A1-4C63-B816-34516FD4FEFA.jpeg
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:38 AM

400 TQ @ 1500rpm is crazy good for a N/A engine
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:42 AM

With N/A and torque … no replacement for displacement 😎
This motor seems like a sound idea …
Posted By: UncleDave

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 04:05 AM

Nice flat curve for sure -way beyond an ls, coyote, or ecoboost


A 10 speed box ought to keep it moving pretty well.


I'm a little disspointed in the numbers. My 15 year old 5.6 makes just 100ft lb less @379

My stone age small block 406 I built for 10K made more power and torque across a similar band while idling at 850 RPM

I expected at least low 5's on the TQ rather than high 4's, and something around 450.

Im sure its smooth and very nice.

UD
Posted By: 02SE

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 04:32 AM

Of course they could get more peak power out of it. In a truck designed to work, duty cycle and the power curve, is more important than peak power numbers. There's also fuel economy to consider.

Hopefully it proves to be a good engine.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Nice flat curve for sure -way beyond an ls, coyote, or ecoboost



With the right camshaft & displacement......The LSx can have a pretty flat torque curve. But most over-cam them in the hunt for maximum HP (Dyno Queen)

This is the chassis dyno results of the 6.2L L92 in my Camaro, The converter flashes to 2950 RPM so no low RPM torque could be measured, The spike at the flash can be disregarded (Blowing through the Converter).....So let's call it 420# at 2950.
I have a much more efficient converter now, But probably flashes at a higher RPM....So I doubt the curve would change much other than eliminating the spike.

[Linked Image]


Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by 02SE
Of course they could get more peak power out of it. In a truck designed to work, duty cycle and the power curve, is more important than peak power numbers. There's also fuel economy to consider.

Hopefully it proves to be a good engine.



thumbsup
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 05:08 AM

On one hand, I’m kind of disappointed by the numbers, almost a whole liter more than the 6.4 truck hemi yet hardly anymore power.

BBBUUUTTTTTT on the other, a large displacement, under-stressed absolute workhorse of an engine with a nice flat torque curve that should last forever sounds awesome.
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 05:14 AM

Proof comes when these work hard, play hard, but don’t get retired for a loooong time …
We’ll see …
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
I was hoping for more but the flat tq curve looks really good for N/A engine

This is a stock LS3 dyno...
[Linked Image]


That Ford has another 1.1L on it. Keep in mind the dyno shows WHP numbers and not the flywheel Ford is showing. Add 20% for drivetrain loss and the LS3 put out 457hp/450tq.


Ford needs to do more development.
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 05:57 AM

That’s a comparison of truck engines ?
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I was hoping for more but the flat tq curve looks really good for N/A engine

This is a stock LS3 dyno...
[Linked Image]


That Ford has another 1.1L on it. Keep in mind the dyno shows WHP numbers and not the flywheel Ford is showing. Add 20% for drivetrain loss and the LS3 put out 457hp/450tq.


Ford needs to do more development.


Your comparing engine dyno numbers to a chassis dyno. A Dyno Dynamics will read significantly different than a DynoJet which will read significantly different than a Mustang dyno. And then you’re comparing an LS3 to a truck engine... would you like some apples to compare to your oranges?
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Skippy722
On one hand, I’m kind of disappointed by the numbers, almost a whole liter more than the 6.4 truck hemi yet hardly anymore power.

BBBUUUTTTTTT on the other, a large displacement, under-stressed absolute workhorse of an engine with a nice flat torque curve that should last forever sounds awesome.


Except the current Hemi 6.4 was beat in every tow test by the 6.2 Ford and 6.0 Chevy. You should look up the IKE Gauntlet testing by Fast lane truck.

The current 6.0 is only has 360 HP and 380 FT/lbs of torque. The Ford and Chevy use their power more efficiently. The old Ram's 6 speed kills it because it doesn't put numbers down like expected and the gearing is spaced too far apart to hold the engine at the correct RPMS.. The new 8 speed is supposed to be better.

Those numbers are nice to see, but I want to see the actual towing test. The Ram numbers are just that. Marketing numbers. It certainly did not prove to be the best gasser in the 3/4 ton and up trucks.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by Skippy722
On one hand, I’m kind of disappointed by the numbers, almost a whole liter more than the 6.4 truck hemi yet hardly anymore power.

BBBUUUTTTTTT on the other, a large displacement, under-stressed absolute workhorse of an engine with a nice flat torque curve that should last forever sounds awesome.


Except the current Hemi 6.4 was beat in every tow test by the 6.2 Ford and 6.0 Chevy. You should look up the IKE Gauntlet testing by Fast lane truck.

The current 6.0 is only has 360 HP and 380 FT/lbs of torque. The Ford and Chevy use their power more efficiently. The old Ram's 6 speed kills it because it doesn't put numbers down like expected and the gearing is spaced too far apart to hold the engine at the correct RPMS.. The new 8 speed is supposed to be better.

Those numbers are nice to see, but I want to see the actual towing test. The Ram numbers are just that. Marketing numbers. It certainly did not prove to be the best gasser in the 3/4 ton and up trucks.


I know... Chrysler just needs to stop designing their own transmissions. I just used the Ram numbers because I knew them off the top of my head, I actually think GM’s v8’s are superior to the HEMI’s lol
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 12:15 PM

Unless there are some design or production flaws that pop up this engine looks to be the best ever gasoline engine for 3/4 ton and up vehicles.
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I was hoping for more but the flat tq curve looks really good for N/A engine

This is a stock LS3 dyno...
[Linked Image]


That Ford has another 1.1L on it. Keep in mind the dyno shows WHP numbers and not the flywheel Ford is showing. Add 20% for drivetrain loss and the LS3 put out 457hp/450tq.


Ford needs to do more development.


Your comparing engine dyno numbers to a chassis dyno. A Dyno Dynamics will read significantly different than a DynoJet which will read significantly different than a Mustang dyno. And then you’re comparing an LS3 to a truck engine... would you like some apples to compare to your oranges?



Whatever. Ford can go back to their drawing board. An extra 1.1L sure didn't do much for 'em.

That is an L86 engine. A 6.2L that GM stuffed in trucks ever since 2014.
http://www.duramaxhub.com/gas/gm-6.2-ecotec3-l86.html

[Linked Image]


That is Fords answer. 1.1L more and over half a decade later. Weak AF.
[Linked Image]


Enjoy them oranges.
Posted By: supton

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:12 PM

You sure? Look at 1500 rpm. 350 vs 400. The 7.3 should be able to hold a taller gear longer. Looked at a different way, GM makes 400 ft-lbs from 2500 to 5500 but the Ford does it from 1500 to 5500. Wider band.
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by supton
You sure? Look at 1500 rpm. 350 vs 400. The 7.3 should be able to hold a taller gear longer. Looked at a different way, GM makes 400 ft-lbs from 2500 to 5500 but the Ford does it from 1500 to 5500. Wider band.


Yes, but when you start thinking about it, gearing can make up for that, and the 1.1L displacement isn't going to be "free" at the gas pump. It isn't a game of "lets just make it huger!" because mpg actually matters, too. I'd rather the GM engine with some deeper gearing in 1st in the transmission to solve that issue, as ultimately torque multiplication can fix a 50# discrepancy at 1500rpm just as well as 50# more torque can, it's not like it's "soft" down low.
Posted By: supton

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
You sure? Look at 1500 rpm. 350 vs 400. The 7.3 should be able to hold a taller gear longer. Looked at a different way, GM makes 400 ft-lbs from 2500 to 5500 but the Ford does it from 1500 to 5500. Wider band.


Yes, but when you start thinking about it, gearing can make up for that, and the 1.1L displacement isn't going to be "free" at the gas pump. It isn't a game of "lets just make it huger!" because mpg actually matters, too. I'd rather the GM engine with some deeper gearing in 1st in the transmission to solve that issue, as ultimately torque multiplication can fix a 50# discrepancy at 1500rpm just as well as 50# more torque can, it's not like it's "soft" down low.

I'm not sure I buy that. At idle, and low loads, sure it will be more thirsty. But under load each horsepower is around the same consumption--without BSFC (?) curves I'm taking guesses, but it seems most motors are around the same conversion of gasoline to horsepower efficiency. And these would be going in big trucks that weigh a lot and push a lot of air. I'm not sure that mpg will be different--just a guess on my part--but another guess says that bump in low end torque will leave many feeling like it's more powerful because it does the same work but at a lower rpm.
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
You sure? Look at 1500 rpm. 350 vs 400. The 7.3 should be able to hold a taller gear longer. Looked at a different way, GM makes 400 ft-lbs from 2500 to 5500 but the Ford does it from 1500 to 5500. Wider band.


Yes, but when you start thinking about it, gearing can make up for that, and the 1.1L displacement isn't going to be "free" at the gas pump. It isn't a game of "lets just make it huger!" because mpg actually matters, too. I'd rather the GM engine with some deeper gearing in 1st in the transmission to solve that issue, as ultimately torque multiplication can fix a 50# discrepancy at 1500rpm just as well as 50# more torque can, it's not like it's "soft" down low.

I'm not sure I buy that. At idle, and low loads, sure it will be more thirsty. But under load each horsepower is around the same consumption--without BSFC (?) curves I'm taking guesses, but it seems most motors are around the same conversion of gasoline to horsepower efficiency. And these would be going in big trucks that weigh a lot and push a lot of air. I'm not sure that mpg will be different--just a guess on my part--but another guess says that bump in low end torque will leave many feeling like it's more powerful because it does the same work but at a lower rpm.


Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:30 PM

The 2020 mid-engine Corvette is a push rod design. Maybe chains belong on bicycles. LOL
Posted By: supton

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.

I'd say that's a poor comparison to something that will be humping hills with the aerodynamics of a barn door with the weight of a barn all day long.

Not only that but you invalidated your point. Both cars get... the same mpg... doing the same work (traveling unloaded at 75mph). Neither is requiring anything close to their max power to cruise. Is one heavier and/or boxier than the other?
Posted By: SteveSRT8

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 02:27 PM

Geez, always the GM versus Ford thing. The reason Ford's new 7.3 is tuned conservatively is it is designed for a HEAVY DUTY workload.

IIRC in the 90's my 3500 service vans got one 350 rated at 220 hp up to 8600 GVWR and another rated at 180 hp for the 9500 pound chassis. Simple to understand, the higher load means more time wide open...
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Ws6
Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.

I'd say that's a poor comparison to something that will be humping hills with the aerodynamics of a barn door with the weight of a barn all day long.

Not only that but you invalidated your point. Both cars get... the same mpg... doing the same work (traveling unloaded at 75mph). Neither is requiring anything close to their max power to cruise. Is one heavier and/or boxier than the other?


You can bet the BSFC for the Ford will be poor.

-Port fuel injection
-No DoD
-Probably <11:1 compression

It does look like they did a pretty solid job building what, barring some Murphy intervention, should be "a million mile engine", though. It's hard to argue their choices with durability in mind sacrificing efficiency and performance. I do applaud Ford for seeing the death of Diesel and doing something proactive about it.
Posted By: hatt

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
You sure? Look at 1500 rpm. 350 vs 400. The 7.3 should be able to hold a taller gear longer. Looked at a different way, GM makes 400 ft-lbs from 2500 to 5500 but the Ford does it from 1500 to 5500. Wider band.


Yes, but when you start thinking about it, gearing can make up for that, and the 1.1L displacement isn't going to be "free" at the gas pump. It isn't a game of "lets just make it huger!" because mpg actually matters, too. I'd rather the GM engine with some deeper gearing in 1st in the transmission to solve that issue, as ultimately torque multiplication can fix a 50# discrepancy at 1500rpm just as well as 50# more torque can, it's not like it's "soft" down low.

I'm not sure I buy that. At idle, and low loads, sure it will be more thirsty. But under load each horsepower is around the same consumption--without BSFC (?) curves I'm taking guesses, but it seems most motors are around the same conversion of gasoline to horsepower efficiency. And these would be going in big trucks that weigh a lot and push a lot of air. I'm not sure that mpg will be different--just a guess on my part--but another guess says that bump in low end torque will leave many feeling like it's more powerful because it does the same work but at a lower rpm.


Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
You sure? Look at 1500 rpm. 350 vs 400. The 7.3 should be able to hold a taller gear longer. Looked at a different way, GM makes 400 ft-lbs from 2500 to 5500 but the Ford does it from 1500 to 5500. Wider band.


Yes, but when you start thinking about it, gearing can make up for that, and the 1.1L displacement isn't going to be "free" at the gas pump. It isn't a game of "lets just make it huger!" because mpg actually matters, too. I'd rather the GM engine with some deeper gearing in 1st in the transmission to solve that issue, as ultimately torque multiplication can fix a 50# discrepancy at 1500rpm just as well as 50# more torque can, it's not like it's "soft" down low.

I'm not sure I buy that. At idle, and low loads, sure it will be more thirsty. But under load each horsepower is around the same consumption--without BSFC (?) curves I'm taking guesses, but it seems most motors are around the same conversion of gasoline to horsepower efficiency. And these would be going in big trucks that weigh a lot and push a lot of air. I'm not sure that mpg will be different--just a guess on my part--but another guess says that bump in low end torque will leave many feeling like it's more powerful because it does the same work but at a lower rpm.


Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.

So what you're saying is the extra power and cubic inches were actually free at the gas pump when cruising around at 75?
Posted By: UncleDave

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 03:08 PM

I think the guys are right to be a bit disappointed by the output.

Heres a 2000-hour 6.7 Litre small block boat engine that runs on pump gas using 1970's tech.
A classic small block chevy.

These work great in trucks.

Boat engine has an even heavier duty cycle than a truck engine and I/Os have a very narrow set of tricks you can play to make power - cant have to big a cam or they will revert water, and they need to idle below 800 RPM or you will crunch the drive gears.

Dyno is at Westech with Steve Brule running the sticks so no cheating. Steve calls this a 500/500 engine.

I can build this in my garage - Id expect the factories latest 7.3 Wunder Weapon to be significantly more powerful than what I can hack on my own.

UD



Attached picture 406 dyno chart rotated correctly.jpg
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 03:34 PM

Either way I think it should be a good engine that will work well in a HD truck. Low compression, good numbers and if the gearing is done correctly nice easy RPMs.

I will be curious to see real world towing numbers. Same goes for the new GM 6.6. That is 401HP and 464 ft/lbs of torque. That is 41 more HP and 84 more ft/lbs of torque than my current 2017 6.0.

With the Ford making 29 more HP and 21 more ft/lbs of torque then the 6.6 it will come down to weight and gearing. I bet it the will be pretty evenly matched.

My old truck was 300HP and 360/Ft/lbs, the 2017 is 360hp and 380FT/lbs of torque. It tows night and day from the old truck because of the 6 speed and 4.10 gears VS the 4 speed with 4.10 gears.

Time will tell if any of these engines prove to be as reliable as the old GM 6.0. I will let other people find out first. smile
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by UncleDave
I think the guys are right to be a bit disappointed by the output.

Heres a 2000-hour 6.7 Litre small block boat engine that runs on pump gas using 1970's tech.
A classic small block chevy.

These work great in trucks.

Boat engine has an even heavier duty cycle than a truck engine and I/Os have a very narrow set of tricks you can play to make power - cant have to big a cam or they will revert water, and they need to idle below 800 RPM or you will crunch the drive gears.

Dyno is at Westech with Steve Brule running the sticks so no cheating. Steve calls this a 500/500 engine.

I can build this in my garage - Id expect the factories latest 7.3 Wunder Weapon to be significantly more powerful than what I can hack on my own.

UD



You don't have to worry about longevity, warranty or thinking about what goofball is going to be running this mass produced engine.
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 03:42 PM

Again dyno numbers are just a tool. I want to see where the rubber meets the road...pardon the pun. wink
Posted By: UncleDave

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 03:44 PM


Id hope not with all the electronic nannies and relatively low specific output.


UD
Posted By: Anthony

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I was hoping for more but the flat tq curve looks really good for N/A engine

This is a stock LS3 dyno...
[Linked Image]


That Ford has another 1.1L on it. Keep in mind the dyno shows WHP numbers and not the flywheel Ford is showing. Add 20% for drivetrain loss and the LS3 put out 457hp/450tq.


Ford needs to do more development.


Your comparing engine dyno numbers to a chassis dyno. A Dyno Dynamics will read significantly different than a DynoJet which will read significantly different than a Mustang dyno. And then you’re comparing an LS3 to a truck engine... would you like some apples to compare to your oranges?



Whatever. Ford can go back to their drawing board. An extra 1.1L sure didn't do much for 'em.

That is an L86 engine. A 6.2L that GM stuffed in trucks ever since 2014.
http://www.duramaxhub.com/gas/gm-6.2-ecotec3-l86.html

[Linked Image]


That is Fords answer. 1.1L more and over half a decade later. Weak AF.
[Linked Image]


Enjoy them oranges.



The GM 6.2 WONT hold up when being used at near Max Duty cycle on a daily basis otherwise they would have used it in their HD trucks instead of sticking with the 6.0 for so long as well as going through the trouble to develop a new 6.6 .......
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/02/19 11:43 PM

From my understanding, and from the bickering as well is that Ford decided to abandon their OHC engine program for a pushrod design but make it a big block with stout internals and rate it conservatively(but I'm sure the aftermarket will find a way to get 500HP+ at the crank from this new engine) and offer a Economy calibration for stripped chassis and cutaway vans.

Was it because Ford wanted to make the fleet and corporate buyers happy or to try to beat GM at their own game? I would imagine the major buyers of the E-Series cutaways/stripped chassis like U-Haul/Penske, the bus/RV OEMs as well as the ambulance market probably wanted the Economy mode to provide a small but cumlative and hypothetical fleet fuel savings.

It seems like the new V8, for a lack of a better phrase strong like bull even though the old 6.8L Mod motor as odd as it was isn't a bad motor.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 12:20 AM

Knowing Ford as I do
They brought this new engine out on the conservative side of the scale
This engine will be rated at 450/500 from the factory in the next 3-5 years 👍
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 03:05 AM

And when you look at how many Ford V10’s went in RV’s over time …
this big V8 could take on some of that market …
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by 4WD
And when you look at how many Ford V10’s went in RV’s over time …
this big V8 could take on some of that market …


👍👍👍👍
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 03:22 AM

Anyone mention these being available for the return of the Crown Vic … ?
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 04:40 AM

You are not going to match fuel economy, longevity, torque management, and emissions to name a few. This engine is far from a dud.
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 04:42 AM

Yep … The rumors out there on a car version look pretty wicked … this is just first roll out …
More fun coming with this engine platform …
Posted By: glock19

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 12:45 PM

I know this won't happen, but I would love to see the 7.3L Ecoboost. Twin turbo that baby and stuff it in the back of a Ford GT.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 02:20 PM

If the aftermarket supports this engines with hipo goodies
Gona see some stuffed between the fender wells of Mustangs
The 7.3 is a little smaller than the current 5.0
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Ws6
Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.

I'd say that's a poor comparison to something that will be humping hills with the aerodynamics of a barn door with the weight of a barn all day long.

Not only that but you invalidated your point. Both cars get... the same mpg... doing the same work (traveling unloaded at 75mph). Neither is requiring anything close to their max power to cruise. Is one heavier and/or boxier than the other?


You can bet the BSFC for the Ford will be poor.

-Port fuel injection
-No DoD
-Probably <11:1 compression

It does look like they did a pretty solid job building what, barring some Murphy intervention, should be "a million mile engine", though. It's hard to argue their choices with durability in mind sacrificing efficiency and performance. I do applaud Ford for seeing the death of Diesel and doing something proactive about it.


Port fuel injected engines can get great BSFC if they are designed and tuned correctly.
For an engine that is running loaded, DoD is of limited value for saving fuel.
Don't know what the CR is, but I did briefly get a glimpse of the piston crown on Mr. Truck's YouTube video, and it was an inverted dome, so probably is significantly less than 11:1. That will hurt fuel economy.

When Ford first announced the engine months ago, their engineer said the 7.3 is tuned stoichiometric everywhere on the map, and that will help fuel economy. I don't know what kind of tricks they are pulling to save the catalytic converters at exhaust temperatures that must be topping 1700F, but I hope they have a solution. I got to be familiar with the tuning of GM's L83 and L86 engines a few years ago, and they are tuned to run rich at WOT, but the point of enrichment varies according to engine speed. At 1500 rpm, throttle setting has to be above 90% to get full power enrichment. At 3600 rpm, 75%. At 5000 rpm, 50%. (Approximate numbers quoted from memory.) Peak thermal efficiency of the L83 was 37% at 2500 rpm, 160 hp. But thermal efficiencies of 33% persist up to 3600 rpm. But by the time the engine got to peak torque WOT at 4100 rpm, thermal efficiency was below 30%.

I've never bought into the concept of having a truck engine with peak torque above about 3000 rpm; in my opinion, the power isn't really usable for the heavy duty customer. I don't want to hear the engine screaming above 4000 rpm when I'm pulling grades during a 10-hour day. And more important than not offending my tender ears is the need for good fuel economy and saving stress cycles on the machinery. For the customer that makes his living with his engine, these are very important considerations.


Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
If the aftermarket supports this engines with hipo goodies
Gona see some stuffed between the fender wells of Mustangs
The 7.3 is a little smaller than the current 5.0


I can easily imagine that the day after the 7.3 goes up for sale, the aftermarket will pull them out of brand-new trucks and go to work.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by kstanf150
If the aftermarket supports this engines with hipo goodies
Gona see some stuffed between the fender wells of Mustangs
The 7.3 is a little smaller than the current 5.0


I can easily imagine that the day after the 7.3 goes up for sale, the aftermarket will pull them out of brand-new trucks and go to work.


I totally agree with ya !👍
Posted By: Anthony

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/04/19 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Ws6
Is this why the 370Z makes 332hp and gets 26mpg highway and the LS7 Z06 made 505hp and got 24mpg highway?
(I owned both cars. The 370Z actually managed 26.5 and the Z06 managed 26, both driven at 75mph).
Man, that theory is all wet.

I'd say that's a poor comparison to something that will be humping hills with the aerodynamics of a barn door with the weight of a barn all day long.

Not only that but you invalidated your point. Both cars get... the same mpg... doing the same work (traveling unloaded at 75mph). Neither is requiring anything close to their max power to cruise. Is one heavier and/or boxier than the other?


You can bet the BSFC for the Ford will be poor.

-Port fuel injection
-No DoD
-Probably <11:1 compression

It does look like they did a pretty solid job building what, barring some Murphy intervention, should be "a million mile engine", though. It's hard to argue their choices with durability in mind sacrificing efficiency and performance. I do applaud Ford for seeing the death of Diesel and doing something proactive about it.


Port fuel injected engines can get great BSFC if they are designed and tuned correctly.
For an engine that is running loaded, DoD is of limited value for saving fuel.
Don't know what the CR is, but I did briefly get a glimpse of the piston crown on Mr. Truck's YouTube video, and it was an inverted dome, so probably is significantly less than 11:1. That will hurt fuel economy.

When Ford first announced the engine months ago, their engineer said the 7.3 is tuned stoichiometric everywhere on the map, and that will help fuel economy. I don't know what kind of tricks they are pulling to save the catalytic converters at exhaust temperatures that must be topping 1700F, but I hope they have a solution. I got to be familiar with the tuning of GM's L83 and L86 engines a few years ago, and they are tuned to run rich at WOT, but the point of enrichment varies according to engine speed. At 1500 rpm, throttle setting has to be above 90% to get full power enrichment. At 3600 rpm, 75%. At 5000 rpm, 50%. (Approximate numbers quoted from memory.) Peak thermal efficiency of the L83 was 37% at 2500 rpm, 160 hp. But thermal efficiencies of 33% persist up to 3600 rpm. But by the time the engine got to peak torque WOT at 4100 rpm, thermal efficiency was below 30%.

I've never bought into the concept of having a truck engine with peak torque above about 3000 rpm; in my opinion, the power isn't really usable for the heavy duty customer. I don't want to hear the engine screaming above 4000 rpm when I'm pulling grades during a 10-hour day. And more important than not offending my tender ears is the need for good fuel economy and saving stress cycles on the machinery. For the customer that makes his living with his engine, these are very important considerations.









The 7.3 makes 400 ft lbs at 1500 rpm. It will have plenty of torque down low.
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
[
I've never bought into the concept of having a truck engine with peak torque above about 3000 rpm; in my opinion, the power isn't really usable for the heavy duty customer. I don't want to hear the engine screaming above 4000 rpm when I'm pulling grades during a 10-hour day. And more important than not offending my tender ears is the need for good fuel economy and saving stress cycles on the machinery. For the customer that makes his living with his engine, these are very important considerations.



All that aside the 6.0 would prove you wrong. Screaming and living that high, yeah you might not want to hear it, but 1000's of them out there well over 250,000 miles on them living that life.
It is plenty usable. I did it all the time with my old 4 speed truck. UPS went to the 6.0 in their trucks because the diesel was pricey to run and required more maintenance. The 6.0 gets the job done, even though it might offend your ears. wink.

In my new truck, it is really quiet on the inside can't really tell it is up in the RPMs unless you look at the gauge.
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
If the aftermarket supports this engines with hipo goodies
Gona see some stuffed between the fender wells of Mustangs
The 7.3 is a little smaller than the current 5.0

Which is good. I am tired of seeing LS swaps in Mustangs. smile
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 02:27 AM

The more I read about it the more I like it. No DI, a lot of low end power, a good choice for what it is intended to do. I also noticed the oil fill cap said 5W-30. wink It is an engine that appears to be built to last a very long time.

I think they have a winner here.
Posted By: sw99

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 12:40 PM

I am excited to drive one once the get to the dealers just for grins. I also plan to test drive the new 6.6L gasser in the Silverado. I like the simplicity of gas as the modern diesels are getting a little overboard with all the emissions junk.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 01:04 PM

Yeah I’m looking forward to a test drive as well mainly to compare my 2018 6.2L to the new 7.3L . The 6.2 is great engine but could use a little more low end tq.
Posted By: sw99

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 01:49 PM

I also had an 18' F350 with the 6.2L and felt it need a little more for the co mountain towing that I do. I had the 4.30 gears and still was turning 5300 rpms in second gear on some of the big hills.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by kstanf150
If the aftermarket supports this engines with hipo goodies
Gona see some stuffed between the fender wells of Mustangs
The 7.3 is a little smaller than the current 5.0

Which is good. I am tired of seeing LS swaps in Mustangs. smile


Now maybe there will be Ford 7.3 swaps into Camaros!
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by kstanf150
If the aftermarket supports this engines with hipo goodies
Gona see some stuffed between the fender wells of Mustangs
The 7.3 is a little smaller than the current 5.0

Which is good. I am tired of seeing LS swaps in Mustangs. smile


Now maybe there will be Ford 7.3 swaps into Camaros!


I’d pay to see that !!💵💵💵😂
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by 4WD
And when you look at how many Ford V10’s went in RV’s over time …
this big V8 could take on some of that market …

Transit agencies have been buying the Ford E-Series cutaway chassis for their paratransit vans as well and they are gassers. I see quite a few El Dorado National and Starcraft vans being pushed around by the 5.4/6.8L mod motors.

Originally Posted by A_Harman


I can easily imagine that the day after the 7.3 goes up for sale, the aftermarket will pull them out of brand-new trucks and go to work.

Ford would be stupid not to offer the 7.3L as a crate motor. They already do with the 2.3L EB and Coyote AFAIK.
Posted By: NDL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by demarpaint
The more I read about it the more I like it. No DI, a lot of low end power, a good choice for what it is intended to do. I also noticed the oil fill cap said 5W-30. wink It is an engine that appears to be built to last a very long time.

I think they have a winner here.


I agree.

What's really interesting about this new motor, is that it shucks many practices that are now seen as conventional. In this, I reference the thermostat housing, which is metal. I find it interesting that Ford took several steps backwards with this motor.
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by NDL
What's really interesting about this new motor, is that it shucks many practices that are now seen as conventional. In this, I reference the thermostat housing, which is metal. I find it interesting that Ford took several steps backwards with this motor.


I think they are seeing the common failure points over the entire range and trying to eliminate them out of the box. Plus make the engine has reliable but easy to work on as possible knowing their target audience.
Posted By: CR94

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by NDL
... What's really interesting about this new motor, is that it shucks many practices that are now seen as conventional. In this, I reference the thermostat housing, which is metal. I find it interesting that Ford took several steps backwards with this motor.
How 'bout the intake manifold material? Cam drive?
Posted By: earlyre

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 08:45 PM

well, maybe by the time this thing starts showing up in junkyards, remans, etc.. maybe by then my brother will finally be ready to actually start his mustang project he's been "planning on" for well over a decade already.

He bought a brand new Mustang GT from Payton-Wright Ford (in Grapevine TX, I think) in '97('98 MY). leather, 5speed, premium audio system, drove it for about 14k mi, then parked it in his garage. and there it sat until he moved back to OH in '16. had it shipped to mom & dads, after getting moved in, drove it the 3 mi from their house to his, parked it in the garage, and hasn't moved since.
He has the IRS from a 69k mi '01(?) Cobra, and the front Bilstiens from said Cobra to put in it, several sets of wheels and Tires, a new Ford intake manifold for when this one cracks, Brake kits, exhausts, etc.
he has replaced the gas tank and fuel pump b/c varnish...
he's pondered different engine swaps before, but not done anything..
sadly there's just no aftermarket love for the 2v Mod...(at least that's one of his excuses...)

he's not Frieburger bad with stashes of speed parts and cars all over town, but he's bad enough...
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by NDL
... What's really interesting about this new motor, is that it shucks many practices that are now seen as conventional. In this, I reference the thermostat housing, which is metal. I find it interesting that Ford took several steps backwards with this motor.
How 'bout the intake manifold material? Cam drive?


Looks like a dry plastic intake, so no water issues there. Also the cut-a-way pictures I have seen looks to be a chain.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/05/19 10:08 PM

According to the Ford media release states that the engine will be built in the Windsor plant. Windsor 445 big block sounds pretty sweet to me !!👍
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
According to the Ford media release states that the engine will be built in the Windsor plant. Windsor 445 big block sounds pretty sweet to me !!👍


Yup, that's awesome thumbsup
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by kstanf150
According to the Ford media release states that the engine will be built in the Windsor plant. Windsor 445 big block sounds pretty sweet to me !!👍


Yup, that's awesome thumbsup



I really don’t want to trade

But

Ford May make me trade for that motor !!😳😳😩🤣
Posted By: andyd

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 01:48 AM

If Ford didn't convert the 4.0 to OHC I'd be driving the newest old Ranger I can afford. Cam drive off the flywheel hub. On a Ford? Nevermind. .The DOHC V6s make me queasy with 6 feet of chain/belt riding on plastic guides. I'm sure Toyota builds a fine V 6 but the timing belt is scary.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by andyd
If Ford didn't convert the 4.0 to OHC I'd be driving the newest old Ranger I can afford. Cam drive off the flywheel hub. On a Ford? Nevermind. .The DOHC V6s make me queasy with 6 feet of chain/belt riding on plastic guides. I'm sure Toyota builds a fine V 6 but the timing belt is scary.


The right chain "Cassette" is in the rear of the engine, The left "Cassette" is in the front, Both are driven off a "Jackshaft" that's driven off the front of the crankshaft buy a Primary timing chain.
They basically took a OHV 4.0L block & used the existing Camshaft bore for a Jackshaft.

I contend that a Timing Belt is the best way to run overhead camshafts, The reduction in harmonics alone are worth the scheduled replacement interval in most cases.
The old Timing Belt Toyota engines are tough as nails & you could generally get 200,000+ before the belt would actually fail.....Usually from dry rot/age.

Honda's & Mitsubishi's used a thinner (Width) timing belt that didn't last as long past the recommended change interval, Add in the fact that close to 100% of them are Interference designs left a bad taste in the general public's mouth. Thus just about all engines use Timing Chains now even IF they are less reliable than some Timing Belt equipped engine of the past.
Though VVT does have some influence, Sealed Cam Phasers are cost prohibitive.....Though GM/Opel uses them in their small 4 cylinder engines
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by andyd
If Ford didn't convert the 4.0 to OHC I'd be driving the newest old Ranger I can afford. Cam drive off the flywheel hub. On a Ford? Nevermind. .The DOHC V6s make me queasy with 6 feet of chain/belt riding on plastic guides. I'm sure Toyota builds a fine V 6 but the timing belt is scary.


The right chain "Cassette" is in the rear of the engine, The left "Cassette" is in the front, Both are driven off a "Jackshaft" that's driven off the front of the crankshaft buy a Primary timing chain.
They basically took a OHV 4.0L block & used the existing Camshaft bore for a Jackshaft.

I contend that a Timing Belt is the best way to run overhead camshafts, The reduction in harmonics alone are worth the scheduled replacement interval in most cases.
The old Timing Belt Toyota engines are tough as nails & you could generally get 200,000+ before the belt would actually fail.....Usually from dry rot/age.


Wasn't there an DOHC version of the GM 3400 that used a jackshaft to drive a separate timing belt? A friend has the 4.0L Cologne V6 in his Explorer. 144K on it, no death rattle. He uses SuperTech oil and filters and 3K OCIs, clean oil is vital for those engines.

The OEMs pawn timing chains as "maintenance free" but replacing them is a fact of life on most Mercedes, not so much the chain itself but the tension/guide rails breaking and causing total engine damage. I've seen the parts from a 1986 420SEL we had, the chain itself was beefy - it was a double-row IWIS chain but the guide rails aren't. Those older Mercedes V8s were interference engines, and the smaller US-spec 3.8L version from 1980-1985 used a cheaper single-row chain.

Toyota hybrids develop timing chain slap. I much prefer a belt. You might lose some skin and blood in the process of changing one out but if a critical system is also a regular maintenance item there's motivation to keep it running. The OEM and dealer belts I pulled off two Toyota engines in the family still looked great.
Posted By: Pew

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by nthach

The OEMs pawn timing chains as "maintenance free" but replacing them is a fact of life on most Mercedes, not so much the chain itself but the tension/guide rails breaking and causing total engine damage. I've seen the parts from a 1986 420SEL we had, the chain itself was beefy - it was a double-row IWIS chain but the guide rails aren't. Those older Mercedes V8s were interference engines, and the smaller US-spec 3.8L version from 1980-1985 used a cheaper single-row chain.


This was the case in the Mitsu Evo X's chain. The '08s to early '11 had a weak chain that failure was common around 80K miles. Then a much beefier revised chain was released which was great, but then the guide rails and became the weak point. Can never ever win.
Posted By: CR94

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by nthach
... The OEMs pawn timing chains as "maintenance free" but replacing them is a fact of life on most Mercedes, not so much the chain itself but the tension/guide rails breaking and causing total engine damage. ... Those older Mercedes V8s were interference engines, and the smaller US-spec 3.8L version from 1980-1985 used a cheaper single-row chain.

Toyota hybrids develop timing chain slap. I much prefer a belt. ...
The double-row, 10-mm-pitch chain of my Mazda (below) was truly maintenance-free, as were the guide and tensioner. No problems at all over 606k miles.

The Prius has a single-row, 8-mm-pitch chain driving twice as many valves, so ...

(Which is all a long way from Ford's latest monster OHV V8 ... )
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/06/19 11:52 PM

Looks like the train has run off the tracks on this thread
Last 5 post have zero to do with the 7.3L Ford Truck Gas Motor

Let’s get back on point here, please guys
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 01:01 AM

I really hope this engine works out. I'd like to see the industry as a whole revert back to pushrods and port fuel injection. No frills, just simple design and operation. Sometimes advancement actually proves to be retardation. Direct injection, miles of timing chain, cam phasers and turbos are all great ways to increase maintenance cost and reduce reliability.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Red91
I really hope this engine works out. I'd like to see the industry as a whole revert back to pushrods and port fuel injection. No frills, just simple design and operation. Sometimes advancement actually proves to be retardation. Direct injection, miles of timing chain, cam phasers and turbos are all great ways to increase maintenance cost and reduce reliability.



Well said
I totally agree sir !!👍👍
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Red91
I really hope this engine works out. I'd like to see the industry as a whole revert back to pushrods and port fuel injection. No frills, just simple design and operation. Sometimes advancement actually proves to be retardation. Direct injection, miles of timing chain, cam phasers and turbos are all great ways to increase maintenance cost and reduce reliability.

I disagree. I want to see current tech refined, and it's getting there. My 2015 cx5 had DI, and was fine. Turbos? Those go 3-500k miles in many applications.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by Red91
I really hope this engine works out. I'd like to see the industry as a whole revert back to pushrods and port fuel injection. No frills, just simple design and operation. Sometimes advancement actually proves to be retardation. Direct injection, miles of timing chain, cam phasers and turbos are all great ways to increase maintenance cost and reduce reliability.

I disagree. I want to see current tech refined, and it's getting there. My 2015 cx5 had DI, and was fine. Turbos? Those go 3-500k miles in many applications.



I agree and we are seeing high mileage turbo DI and DI engines in our fleet. Soon it will be common place I don't believe people who make statements of new fangled Turbo DI engines engines realized it's been a decade and a half since this technology was introduced in mass production and engine failure rates did not dramatically increase.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by andyd
If Ford didn't convert the 4.0 to OHC I'd be driving the newest old Ranger I can afford. Cam drive off the flywheel hub. On a Ford? Nevermind. .The DOHC V6s make me queasy with 6 feet of chain/belt riding on plastic guides. I'm sure Toyota builds a fine V 6 but the timing belt is scary.


The right chain "Cassette" is in the rear of the engine, The left "Cassette" is in the front, Both are driven off a "Jackshaft" that's driven off the front of the crankshaft buy a Primary timing chain.
They basically took a OHV 4.0L block & used the existing Camshaft bore for a Jackshaft.

I contend that a Timing Belt is the best way to run overhead camshafts, The reduction in harmonics alone are worth the scheduled replacement interval in most cases.
The old Timing Belt Toyota engines are tough as nails & you could generally get 200,000+ before the belt would actually fail.....Usually from dry rot/age.



Wasn't there an DOHC version of the GM 3400 that used a jackshaft to drive a separate timing belt? A friend has the 4.0L Cologne V6 in his Explorer. 144K on it, no death rattle. He uses SuperTech oil and filters and 3K OCIs, clean oil is vital for those engines.

The OEMs pawn timing chains as "maintenance free" but replacing them is a fact of life on most Mercedes, not so much the chain itself but the tension/guide rails breaking and causing total engine damage. I've seen the parts from a 1986 420SEL we had, the chain itself was beefy - it was a double-row IWIS chain but the guide rails aren't. Those older Mercedes V8s were interference engines, and the smaller US-spec 3.8L version from 1980-1985 used a cheaper single-row chain.

Toyota hybrids develop timing chain slap. I much prefer a belt. You might lose some skin and blood in the process of changing one out but if a critical system is also a regular maintenance item there's motivation to keep it running. The OEM and dealer belts I pulled off two Toyota engines in the family still looked great.


Yes....The LQ1. It was called a Intermediate Shaft as no timing components ran off the rear of the shaft.....Though it did run the Oil Pump drive at the rear.

IWIS makes some of the best timing chains in the world, Have one in my L92! People tend to think that short cam-in-block timing chains don't wear....They most certainly do! And in the case of high RPM with High spring loads & aggressive lobe profiles.....They can break from Harmonics/Chain Whip.

That's really the achilles heel of the 2V OHV arrangement.....Valve Control! About the only pattern failure I've seen with the 6.2L Ford is broken valve springs, And it's a 2V OHC arrangement. Ford is having trouble just controlling large/heavy valves & a Rocker Arm.....Now the 7.3L will have even larger valves & much more weight to control (Lifter, Pushrod, & Rocker Arm).
Granted the hydraulic lash adjuster is built into the Rocker Arm on the 6.2L unlike other Modular engines that use a Roller Follower with the Lash Adjuster in the cylinder head (No added weight)


As much as I really like OHV pushrod engines for their simplicity......Ford abandoned it long ago. They could have easily stuck with the 6.2L architecture that IIRC has pretty large bore centers for the displacement (Room to grow)
I don't see where "engine swaps" help the bottom line much? Need to do major surgery on a Ford truck....Pull the cab!






Originally Posted by kstanf150
Looks like the train has run off the tracks on this thread
Last 5 post have zero to do with the 7.3L Ford Truck Gas Motor

Let’s get back on point here, please guys



Zombie thread from 6 months ago......But thanks anyway Mom the Ford thread moderator!
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 11:52 AM

I'm aware of the amount of time/mileage being put on di/turbo engines. Some are making it to high mileage, I'll give you that, but when they give trouble the cost is enough to make the customer jump ship for a new car. Some things get to a certain point of advancement where that's as good as they're going to get. By the beginning of this century we had made it. Port fuel injected engines with natural aspiration and distributorless ignition proved themselves to be long lived, relatively easy to work on, inexpensive to repair, and made more than enough power for the average consumer. Plus, fuel economy was basically the same as it is now.

Guys, I'm not hard to please. The Impala in my sig is about as basic of a car as you could get in 2005. By the time it rolled out of the factory, every bit of it's technology had been in use for twenty years in one form of another. It has port fuel injection and pushrods. It might make 170 hp but that's probably being quite liberal an estimate. I haven't driven or worked on anything newer with di/turbo/ohc and thought, "this is better". If anything, the honest truth is my thought was, "this thing shifts like it's retarded, it idles like it has a misfire, the power comes on at the most useless part of the Rev range, and overall they've managed to build a vehicle that does everything my 14 yr old car can do, but somehow worse." I'd love to see gm and Ford dump their ohc/di/turbo v6 engines for pi/na/pushrod engines like they were using 10-15 years ago. Sure, the Vulcan 3.0, 31/34/35/3900 v6s weren't powerhouses, but they worked and we're cheap to maintain. That's really all they average consumer needs. Sorry for the derailment, I'm just stating my opinion. Give me simple, reliable, and easy to work on over "advanced" any day.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Red91
I'm aware of the amount of time/mileage being put on di/turbo engines. Some are making it to high mileage, I'll give you that, but when they give trouble the cost is enough to make the customer jump ship for a new car. Some things get to a certain point of advancement where that's as good as they're going to get. By the beginning of this century we had made it. Port fuel injected engines with natural aspiration and distributorless ignition proved themselves to be long lived, relatively easy to work on, inexpensive to repair, and made more than enough power for the average consumer. Plus, fuel economy was basically the same as it is now.

Guys, I'm not hard to please. The Impala in my sig is about as basic of a car as you could get in 2005. By the time it rolled out of the factory, every bit of it's technology had been in use for twenty years in one form of another. It has port fuel injection and pushrods. It might make 170 hp but that's probably being quite liberal an estimate. I haven't driven or worked on anything newer with di/turbo/ohc and thought, "this is better". If anything, the honest truth is my thought was, "this thing shifts like it's retarded, it idles like it has a misfire, the power comes on at the most useless part of the Rev range, and overall they've managed to build a vehicle that does everything my 14 yr old car can do, but somehow worse." I'd love to see gm and Ford dump their ohc/di/turbo v6 engines for pi/na/pushrod engines like they were using 10-15 years ago. Sure, the Vulcan 3.0, 31/34/35/3900 v6s weren't powerhouses, but they worked and we're cheap to maintain. That's really all they average consumer needs. Sorry for the derailment, I'm just stating my opinion. Give me simple, reliable, and easy to work on over "advanced" any day.



I guess 1500RPM is too low for you. I guess you like making peak power at 4000.
Posted By: JHZR2

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 02:05 PM

It seems like a stoichiometrically tuned DI would be a good case study for economics and power. The effect on cooling/combustion temperatures, etc would seem to have a benefit, especially under high duty cycles.

Honestly I’m surprised they didn’t push the hybrid DI/port to ensure cleanliness with the benefits of DI.

Interesting to read all the comments on timing chains. Wonder how many folks have actually lined up marks and measured wear in the chain and sprocket.
Posted By: Pew

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Red91
I'm aware of the amount of time/mileage being put on di/turbo engines. Some are making it to high mileage, I'll give you that, but when they give trouble the cost is enough to make the customer jump ship for a new car. Some things get to a certain point of advancement where that's as good as they're going to get. By the beginning of this century we had made it. Port fuel injected engines with natural aspiration and distributorless ignition proved themselves to be long lived, relatively easy to work on, inexpensive to repair, and made more than enough power for the average consumer. Plus, fuel economy was basically the same as it is now.

Guys, I'm not hard to please. The Impala in my sig is about as basic of a car as you could get in 2005. By the time it rolled out of the factory, every bit of it's technology had been in use for twenty years in one form of another. It has port fuel injection and pushrods. It might make 170 hp but that's probably being quite liberal an estimate. I haven't driven or worked on anything newer with di/turbo/ohc and thought, "this is better". If anything, the honest truth is my thought was, "this thing shifts like it's retarded, it idles like it has a misfire, the power comes on at the most useless part of the Rev range, and overall they've managed to build a vehicle that does everything my 14 yr old car can do, but somehow worse." I'd love to see gm and Ford dump their ohc/di/turbo v6 engines for pi/na/pushrod engines like they were using 10-15 years ago. Sure, the Vulcan 3.0, 31/34/35/3900 v6s weren't powerhouses, but they worked and we're cheap to maintain. That's really all they average consumer needs. Sorry for the derailment, I'm just stating my opinion. Give me simple, reliable, and easy to work on over "advanced" any day.



I guess 1500RPM is too low for you. I guess you like making peak power at 4000.


For real. My 1L 3cyl engine makes peak torque at around 1300rpm.

Red91, I'm willing to bet your impala wouldn't pass safety and emission standards as a new car today either. I like simplicity too but if we kept to the thought of simplicity > technological advancements, we'd still be riding horse-drawn carriages.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by JHZR2
It seems like a stoichiometrically tuned DI would be a good case study for economics and power. The effect on cooling/combustion temperatures, etc would seem to have a benefit, especially under high duty cycles.

Honestly I’m surprised they didn’t push the hybrid DI/port to ensure cleanliness with the benefits of DI.

Interesting to read all the comments on timing chains. Wonder how many folks have actually lined up marks and measured wear in the chain and sprocket.



The wear I've seen from experience is nearly the same on non DI and DI engines further demonstration maintenance practices are key. Still it does not justify over maintenance which most members do.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by clinebarger

That's really the achilles heel of the 2V OHV arrangement.....Valve Control! About the only pattern failure I've seen with the 6.2L Ford is broken valve springs, And it's a 2V OHC arrangement. Ford is having trouble just controlling large/heavy valves & a Rocker Arm.....Now the 7.3L will have even larger valves & much more weight to control (Lifter, Pushrod, & Rocker Arm).


If valve float is an inherent weakness in an OHV engine, how is GM and Mopar mitigating it in the LSx and the Hemi(especially the Hellcat/Demon variants with forced induction)? I'm guessing stiffer, variable-coil valve springs with a beefier, bolted on rocker arm assembly, roller lifters and VVT?
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 06:22 PM

I'm not following you. Are you referring to the max power range of pushrod v6 engines?
Posted By: nthach

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Red91
I'm not following you. Are you referring to the max power range of pushrod v6 engines?

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com...lve-float-and-how-does-it-impact-engines
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 06:35 PM

Yeah, I like that the car doesn't meet those standards. I can see out of it, it drives like all the 85-05 gm fwd sedans I've ever driven, and I can work on it, affordably at that. It gets decent fuel mileage, it makes decent power, it's comfortable and those are things that matter to me. It's personal preference. To each their own, but back to the point of the thread, I'm glad Ford is putting out this basic work truck engine with basic, "old" tech that has proven itself, and I hope the engine does do.
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 06:38 PM

That link really isn't applying to my post.....
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 07:05 PM

Nevermind Dave, I looked up the power figures and I see what you mean, but no, I have no issue with those engines making their power up high. Honestly, I could care less about the power, I care more for the reliability and ease of maintenance. I'll leave the low end torque to big inch, low stressed pushrod v8s.
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 07:06 PM

Ok I looked at your post from a different perspective, and in my experience these engines never had an issue with valve float.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by andyd
If Ford didn't convert the 4.0 to OHC I'd be driving the newest old Ranger I can afford. Cam drive off the flywheel hub. On a Ford? Nevermind. .The DOHC V6s make me queasy with 6 feet of chain/belt riding on plastic guides. I'm sure Toyota builds a fine V 6 but the timing belt is scary.


The right chain "Cassette" is in the rear of the engine, The left "Cassette" is in the front, Both are driven off a "Jackshaft" that's driven off the front of the crankshaft buy a Primary timing chain.
They basically took a OHV 4.0L block & used the existing Camshaft bore for a Jackshaft.

I contend that a Timing Belt is the best way to run overhead camshafts, The reduction in harmonics alone are worth the scheduled replacement interval in most cases.
The old Timing Belt Toyota engines are tough as nails & you could generally get 200,000+ before the belt would actually fail.....Usually from dry rot/age.



Wasn't there an DOHC version of the GM 3400 that used a jackshaft to drive a separate timing belt? A friend has the 4.0L Cologne V6 in his Explorer. 144K on it, no death rattle. He uses SuperTech oil and filters and 3K OCIs, clean oil is vital for those engines.

The OEMs pawn timing chains as "maintenance free" but replacing them is a fact of life on most Mercedes, not so much the chain itself but the tension/guide rails breaking and causing total engine damage. I've seen the parts from a 1986 420SEL we had, the chain itself was beefy - it was a double-row IWIS chain but the guide rails aren't. Those older Mercedes V8s were interference engines, and the smaller US-spec 3.8L version from 1980-1985 used a cheaper single-row chain.

Toyota hybrids develop timing chain slap. I much prefer a belt. You might lose some skin and blood in the process of changing one out but if a critical system is also a regular maintenance item there's motivation to keep it running. The OEM and dealer belts I pulled off two Toyota engines in the family still looked great.


Yes....The LQ1. It was called a Intermediate Shaft as no timing components ran off the rear of the shaft.....Though it did run the Oil Pump drive at the rear.-

IWIS makes some of the best timing chains in the world, Have one in my L92! People tend to think that short cam-in-block timing chains don't wear....They most certainly do! And in the case of high RPM with High spring loads & aggressive lobe profiles.....They can break from Harmonics/Chain Whip.

That's really the achilles heel of the 2V OHV arrangement.....Valve Control! About the only pattern failure I've seen with the 6.2L Ford is broken valve springs, And it's a 2V OHC arrangement. Ford is having trouble just controlling large/heavy valves & a Rocker Arm.....Now the 7.3L will have even larger valves & much more weight to control (Lifter, Pushrod, & Rocker Arm).
Granted the hydraulic lash adjuster is built into the Rocker Arm on the 6.2L unlike other Modular engines that use a Roller Follower with the Lash Adjuster in the cylinder head (No added weight)


As much as I really like OHV pushrod engines for their simplicity......Ford abandoned it long ago. They could have easily stuck with the 6.2L architecture that IIRC has pretty large bore centers for the displacement (Room to grow)



{sigh} Overhead Cams. They produce great benefits in engine design in the form of stiffer valvetrains and freedom of port design, but there's no good way to drive them. Belts are cheap, but they are a maintenance item. Chains require extensive guide and tensioning systems, or they stretch, wear, jump time, and break. (My best friend at GM was release engineer on the timing chain system for the High-Feature V6. He stressed out and had to take a few weeks off to decompress. But the Gen 2 HF V6 has a much improved system.) I prefer gears, but they're expensive, and are an issue if somebody wants to mill the head or block decks.

GM and Chrysler have developed their pushrod V8's to be reliable up to 6000-ish rpm. So fortunately the LS and Hemi have been available for 15+ years for Ford to benchmark and learn from. From the cutaways I have seen on the 7.3, it looks like Ford has copied GM with ovate-wire beehive valve springs, and investment cast roller-fulcrum rocker arms. From what I've seen so far, the 7.3 looks like a big LS.

My suspicion for years has been that the extra friction caused by multiple overhead cams and four valves per cylinder erases whatever fuel economy benefit that the smaller displacement of OHC engines provides. And now everybody is jumping on the DI/high-compression/turbo/downsized displacement bandwagon, and are trying to make gasoline engines produce BMEP like diesel engines at 1500 rpm. So who needs the high-rpm capability of overhead cams? The name of the game in the auto industry now is to achieve 54 mpg CAFE by 2025. So fuel economy is king.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Red91
I'm aware of the amount of time/mileage being put on di/turbo engines. Some are making it to high mileage, I'll give you that, but when they give trouble the cost is enough to make the customer jump ship for a new car. Some things get to a certain point of advancement where that's as good as they're going to get. By the beginning of this century we had made it. Port fuel injected engines with natural aspiration and distributorless ignition proved themselves to be long lived, relatively easy to work on, inexpensive to repair, and made more than enough power for the average consumer. Plus, fuel economy was basically the same as it is now.

Guys, I'm not hard to please. The Impala in my sig is about as basic of a car as you could get in 2005. By the time it rolled out of the factory, every bit of it's technology had been in use for twenty years in one form of another. It has port fuel injection and pushrods. It might make 170 hp but that's probably being quite liberal an estimate. I haven't driven or worked on anything newer with di/turbo/ohc and thought, "this is better". If anything, the honest truth is my thought was, "this thing shifts like it's retarded, it idles like it has a misfire, the power comes on at the most useless part of the Rev range, and overall they've managed to build a vehicle that does everything my 14 yr old car can do, but somehow worse." I'd love to see gm and Ford dump their ohc/di/turbo v6 engines for pi/na/pushrod engines like they were using 10-15 years ago. Sure, the Vulcan 3.0, 31/34/35/3900 v6s weren't powerhouses, but they worked and we're cheap to maintain. That's really all they average consumer needs. Sorry for the derailment, I'm just stating my opinion. Give me simple, reliable, and easy to work on over "advanced" any day.



I guess 1500RPM is too low for you. I guess you like making peak power at 4000.


I was going to say this exact thing. 90% of peak torque available from 1800rpm to 6,350rpm, my Chrysler spec ZF8 speed is absolutely perfect, idles so smooth you’ll forget it’s on... no forced induction or turbo needed. Push rod engines aren’t going to make a comeback for average consumer vehicles. Everything they do, DOHC with VVT does better.
Posted By: Red91

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 11:48 PM

Well, odd man out I may be, but I respectfully (and I mean respectfully) disagree with you guys on that. I'm going to hang on to pushrods for as long as I can, and you can have the di/turbo/ohc engines. Everybody has their preferences, and pushrod/pfi/na suits me. With that, I'm bowing out of this one because I've inadvertently detailed the topic. I really do hope this 7.3 works well.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/07/19 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Red91
Yeah, I like that the car doesn't meet those standards. I can see out of it, it drives like all the 85-05 gm fwd sedans I've ever driven, and I can work on it, affordably at that. It gets decent fuel mileage, it makes decent power, it's comfortable and those are things that matter to me. It's personal preference. To each their own, but back to the point of the thread, I'm glad Ford is putting out this basic work truck engine with basic, "old" tech that has proven itself, and I hope the engine does do.

Pushrod engines are newer than OHC. I don't know how this is continuously mixed up.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by dave1251

Pushrod engines are newer than OHC. I don't know how this is continuously mixed up.


Some people think “more complex=newer technology”
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by clinebarger

That's really the achilles heel of the 2V OHV arrangement.....Valve Control! About the only pattern failure I've seen with the 6.2L Ford is broken valve springs, And it's a 2V OHC arrangement. Ford is having trouble just controlling large/heavy valves & a Rocker Arm.....Now the 7.3L will have even larger valves & much more weight to control (Lifter, Pushrod, & Rocker Arm).


If valve float is an inherent weakness in an OHV engine, how is GM and Mopar mitigating it in the LSx and the Hemi(especially the Hellcat/Demon variants with forced induction)? I'm guessing stiffer, variable-coil valve springs with a beefier, bolted on rocker arm assembly, roller lifters and VVT?


Not so much valve float.....Breaking valve springs is a phenomenon that is ALMOST exclusive to OHV engines. Though I recently seen a broken spring on a 3.6L Pentastar. And of coarse the many Ford 6.2L OHC engines I've seen with broken springs being an outlier.

LSx & Hemi's probably break springs more than any modern engine. The lowly 4.8L being the worst of the lot......Have to rev them to make power & it will only take so much duty cycle.

Beehive/Ovalet springs certainly help, Smaller diameter spring retainers reduce mass.
Hollow stem valves also help reduce mass, All the high performance engine your thinking of use hollow stem valves. Not a technology generally found on truck engines.

Roller lifters add mass & VVT doesn't change the cam profile just valve/cam timing. Not to be confused Variable Lift/Profile technology (Honda Vtec).


Broken springs may not be a wide spread topic/known issue.......Engines are replaced over it a lot of times. Where a simple vacuum gauge will diagnose it.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by clinebarger

That's really the achilles heel of the 2V OHV arrangement.....Valve Control! About the only pattern failure I've seen with the 6.2L Ford is broken valve springs, And it's a 2V OHC arrangement. Ford is having trouble just controlling large/heavy valves & a Rocker Arm.....Now the 7.3L will have even larger valves & much more weight to control (Lifter, Pushrod, & Rocker Arm).


If valve float is an inherent weakness in an OHV engine, how is GM and Mopar mitigating it in the LSx and the Hemi(especially the Hellcat/Demon variants with forced induction)? I'm guessing stiffer, variable-coil valve springs with a beefier, bolted on rocker arm assembly, roller lifters and VVT?


Not so much valve float.....Breaking valve springs is a phenomenon that is ALMOST exclusive to OHV engines. Though I recently seen a broken spring on a 3.6L Pentastar. And of coarse the many Ford 6.2L OHC engines I've seen with broken springs being an outlier.

LSx & Hemi's probably break springs more than any modern engine. The lowly 4.8L being the worst of the lot......Have to rev them to make power & it will only take so much duty cycle.

Beehive/Ovalet springs certainly help, Smaller diameter spring retainers reduce mass.
Hollow stem valves also help reduce mass, All the high performance engine your thinking of use hollow stem valves. Not a technology generally found on truck engines.

Roller lifters add mass & VVT doesn't change the cam profile just valve/cam timing. Not to be confused Variable Lift/Profile technology (Honda Vtec).


Broken springs may not be a wide spread topic/known issue.......Engines are replaced over it a lot of times. Where a simple vacuum gauge will diagnose it.


What do suppose is the reason for broken springs on the Ford 6.2 (design flaw or supplier quality) or user neglect of good maintenance of oil changes ?
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by clinebarger

That's really the achilles heel of the 2V OHV arrangement.....Valve Control! About the only pattern failure I've seen with the 6.2L Ford is broken valve springs, And it's a 2V OHC arrangement. Ford is having trouble just controlling large/heavy valves & a Rocker Arm.....Now the 7.3L will have even larger valves & much more weight to control (Lifter, Pushrod, & Rocker Arm).


If valve float is an inherent weakness in an OHV engine, how is GM and Mopar mitigating it in the LSx and the Hemi(especially the Hellcat/Demon variants with forced induction)? I'm guessing stiffer, variable-coil valve springs with a beefier, bolted on rocker arm assembly, roller lifters and VVT?


Not so much valve float.....Breaking valve springs is a phenomenon that is ALMOST exclusive to OHV engines. Though I recently seen a broken spring on a 3.6L Pentastar. And of coarse the many Ford 6.2L OHC engines I've seen with broken springs being an outlier.

LSx & Hemi's probably break springs more than any modern engine. The lowly 4.8L being the worst of the lot......Have to rev them to make power & it will only take so much duty cycle.

Beehive/Ovalet springs certainly help, Smaller diameter spring retainers reduce mass.
Hollow stem valves also help reduce mass, All the high performance engine your thinking of use hollow stem valves. Not a technology generally found on truck engines.

Roller lifters add mass & VVT doesn't change the cam profile just valve/cam timing. Not to be confused Variable Lift/Profile technology (Honda Vtec).


Broken springs may not be a wide spread topic/known issue.......Engines are replaced over it a lot of times. Where a simple vacuum gauge will diagnose it.


What do suppose is the reason for broken springs on the Ford 6.2 (design flaw or supplier quality) or user neglect of good maintenance of oil changes ?


I think the 6.2 suffers from excessive mass at the valve. Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 04:01 PM

Any idea if spring failure is more on the intake side or exhaust ? Or just a combination of both
Posted By: CR94

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
... Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.
Multiplied by the square of the rocker ratio.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/08/19 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by A_Harman
... Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.
Multiplied by the square of the rocker ratio.


Oops. You're right.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by kstanf150
Any idea if spring failure is more on the intake side or exhaust ? Or just a combination of both


I've seen both.....The good news is, It doesn't normally drop a valve or otherwise damage the engine.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Any idea if spring failure is more on the intake side or exhaust ? Or just a combination of both


I've seen both.....The good news is, It doesn't normally drop a valve or otherwise damage the engine.



Thanks good news since I own a 6.2 Ford
But again why do you think the springs are failing ??
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 02:53 AM

The extra mass of the Hydraulic Lifter being placed right over the valve like I & A_Harman already stated. I'm not aware of any other engine using this design .

Ford could have ran mechanical lash adjusters like Honda does. The 3.5L Ecoboost & 3.7L V6's use solid lash buckets.....It's not like they're married to hydraulic lash adjusters. Though Lash Buckets are more of a Mazda design.
Using a similar to Honda design would allow quick valve lash adjustment every 100,000 miles.....Where adjusting the lash on a Ecoboost/Duratech V6 is roughly a 15 hour operation if adjustments need to be made.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
The extra mass of the Hydraulic Lifter being placed right over the valve like I & A_Harman already stated. I'm not aware of any other engine using this design .

Ford could have ran mechanical lash adjusters like Honda does. The 3.5L Ecoboost & 3.7L V6's use solid lash buckets.....It's not like they're married to hydraulic lash adjusters. Though Lash Buckets are more of a Mazda design.
Using a similar to Honda design would allow quick valve lash adjustment every 100,000 miles.....Where adjusting the lash on a Ecoboost/Duratech V6 is roughly a 15 hour operation if adjustments need to be made.


How much difference is there between the old 427 SOHC arrangement and the 6.2L as far as cam and rocker arm design ???
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 04:04 AM

Pretty similar.....Though the 427 Cammer used Mechanical Lash Adjusters!

Here's a 2015 6.2L valvetrian pic......Motor is toast, Didn't feel like lifting a pic off the web.....

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Ws6

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by A_Harman



I think the 6.2 suffers from excessive mass at the valve. Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.


I like how Mazda did it. They seem to have figured out turbo/DI, "fill for life" transmission fluid, etc. as well.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

On their Skyactive engines, Mazda uses a class 3 lever (similar to BMW's 14,000rpm S1000RR design), and a low-friction roller cam follower. But the pièce de résistance is the hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA) at the fulcrum.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by A_Harman



I think the 6.2 suffers from excessive mass at the valve. Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.


I like how Mazda did it. They seem to have figured out turbo/DI, "fill for life" transmission fluid, etc. as well.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

On their Skyactive engines, Mazda uses a class 3 lever (similar to BMW's 14,000rpm S1000RR design), and a low-friction roller cam follower. But the pièce de résistance is the hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA) at the fulcrum.



FYI, that's the exact same way Ford did it on the Modular.
Posted By: JHZR2

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by JHZR2
It seems like a stoichiometrically tuned DI would be a good case study for economics and power. The effect on cooling/combustion temperatures, etc would seem to have a benefit, especially under high duty cycles.

Honestly I’m surprised they didn’t push the hybrid DI/port to ensure cleanliness with the benefits of DI.

Interesting to read all the comments on timing chains. Wonder how many folks have actually lined up marks and measured wear in the chain and sprocket.



The wear I've seen from experience is nearly the same on non DI and DI engines further demonstration maintenance practices are key. Still it does not justify over maintenance which most members do.


Point was that chains do wear, and the chain and/or other elements are replacement items.

DI is a different part of my discussion, in that chains aside, the thermal benefits of DI would notionally line up well with efficient tuning.
Posted By: kstanf150

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Pretty similar.....Though the 427 Cammer used Mechanical Lash Adjusters!

Here's a 2015 6.2L valvetrian pic......Motor is toast, Didn't feel like lifting a pic off the web.....

[Linked Image]



Looks like A lot of neglect on the owners part played into the demise of that motor. Probably never had an oil change in its life 😳🤔🤔🤨🤨
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/09/19 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by A_Harman



I think the 6.2 suffers from excessive mass at the valve. Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.


I like how Mazda did it. They seem to have figured out turbo/DI, "fill for life" transmission fluid, etc. as well.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

On their Skyactive engines, Mazda uses a class 3 lever (similar to BMW's 14,000rpm S1000RR design), and a low-friction roller cam follower. But the pièce de résistance is the hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA) at the fulcrum.



FYI, that's the exact same way Ford did it on the Modular.


Same as the Pentastar v6 as well. It’s a great system imo.
Posted By: wtd

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 08/11/19 07:29 PM

I'm very interested in this new Ford engine even though I'm not that much of a Ford fan. I guess I like more simplicity in engine design and is probably why I still drive two older Chevy trucks.

While they may not make the most power, they get the job done.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 09/06/19 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by A_Harman



I think the 6.2 suffers from excessive mass at the valve. Ford designed it with the hydraulic lash adjuster at the valve end of the rocker arm. This means that whatever accelerations it feels from the cam are multiplied by the rocker ratio. It probably has about as much mass at the valve as a pushrod engine.


I like how Mazda did it. They seem to have figured out turbo/DI, "fill for life" transmission fluid, etc. as well.
[Linked Image from i43.tinypic.com]
[Linked Image from i43.tinypic.com]

On their Skyactive engines, Mazda uses a class 3 lever (similar to BMW's 14,000rpm S1000RR design), and a low-friction roller cam follower. But the pièce de résistance is the hydraulic lash adjuster (HLA) at the fulcrum.



FYI, that's the exact same way Ford did it on the Modular.


Same as the Pentastar v6 as well. It’s a great system imo.


The end-pivot valvetrain with stationary lash adjuster at the fulcrum is the most popular type in the world. It has pretty much taken over from the direct-acting bucket lifter style. It has advantages of being able to package a roller cam follower for low friction, lower engine height because the cam follower is next to the valve stem instead of on top of it, and ability to achieve higher valve velocity than the direct-acting slider follower style.
Posted By: DGXR

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 09/09/19 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by wtd
I'm very interested in this new Ford engine even though I'm not that much of a Ford fan. I guess I like more simplicity in engine design and is probably why I still drive two older Chevy trucks. While they may not make the most power, they get the job done.


cheap - fast - reliable
pick any two smile
Truck engines are not designed for maximum power... may be an obvious statement but needed to be said. They are designed to balance durability, fuel efficiency, torque (useful output for the application), and ease of ownership... all while being fairly cheap to manufacture.
I also prefer the older SBC engines over Ford's offerings, but they all have certain strengths.
Posted By: jakewells

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 09/09/19 05:04 PM

i prefer my my 4.3 vortec over any sbc but i would take a inline 6.
Posted By: ls1mike

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 09/10/19 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by jakewells
i prefer my my 4.3 vortec over any sbc but i would take a inline 6.


Except your 4.3 is technically a SBC 350 with the first two cylinders cut away. I mean that is literally what the 4.3 was designed from.

I have had traditional SBCs and 4.3. I will take the an LS based engine everyday. Cheap to maintain, better power, better MPG with less problems.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Fords new 7.3 liter engine is a pushrod engine? - 09/10/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by jakewells
i prefer my my 4.3 vortec over any sbc but i would take a inline 6.


Except your 4.3 is technically a SBC 350 with the first two cylinders cut away. I mean that is literally what the 4.3 was designed from.

I have had traditional SBCs and 4.3. I will take the an LS based engine everyday. Cheap to maintain, better power, better MPG with less problems.


Yep, the LSx engines are a much better engine than anything based on the old SBC.
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