How much better is Shell gas than Exxon?

Posted by: taurus_sable

How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:09 AM

I usually use Shell 93 only. But I can find Exxon 93 for $0.15/gal cheaper than Shell in my area. Is it worth the switch?
Posted by: Rand

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:10 AM

what your real question is...

how much better are shell gas additives than exxon gas additives.
Posted by: dparm

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:16 AM

Prediction: this thread will get filled with fanboys of each brand of gas, with no objective data to back up their claims.

That being said, I have used pretty much every brand of premium (91-93) gas under the sun in many different vehicles and not once did I say, "this gas sucks, I'm never buying it again."
Posted by: ARCOgraphite

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:21 AM

Fuel quality is all over the place up here. Recently I found good fuel at Irving in North Salem near MCKinnons, and at the Mobil near my house in Kingston. Surprisingly I got terrible ( high octane) gas at the Mobil next to the BMW dealership in Stratham. The Shell in Kingston pours garbagre more. frequently than not.
Guess it depends on what the fuel guy was hauling b4 he got a gasoline load, how much free water there is in the UGST , how much Ethanol there is in the blend and how nice the blend ended up at the Terminal that batch. Its like buying vegetables at the market or vintage wine. Too many variables to say brand X is better than Brand S.
I will say I have enjoyed Xom latest additive wizardry last summer more than anything else in the low octane stuff araound these parts.

Why do you need high octane?
Posted by: salv

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:25 AM

Shell is not better than Exxon or vice versa. Both are high quality gasoline. Buy whichever is cheaper.
Posted by: grampi

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: salv
Shell is not better than Exxon or vice versa. Both are high quality gasoline. Buy whichever is cheaper.


I was thinking the same thing...
Posted by: 440Magnum

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:33 AM

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: salv
Shell is not better than Exxon or vice versa. Both are high quality gasoline. Buy whichever is cheaper.


I was thinking the same thing...


+1 Same difference, buy the cheapest, easier to get in/out of, whatever other criteria you pick.
Posted by: Durango

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:33 AM

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
I usually use Shell 93 only. But I can find Exxon 93 for $0.15/gal cheaper than Shell in my area. Is it worth the switch?


taurus_sable,

Out of the two gasolines you mentioned Shell is the most expensive in my area so That's why I refuse to buy any Shell product. I mean the price per gallon is in the mid four dollar range with for sure the 91 octane is an easy $4.99/gallon.

I know this has been mentioned before and I don't want to open a new can or worms.Personally I don't feel Shell is any better than Exxon.

ARCO gas is priced reasonable and it's price is still in the mid three dollar range. That's why I try to pay cash now and use the card only when necessary. This California gas price is for the birds!

Durango
Posted by: TrevorS

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:38 AM

Best way is to use you butt dino and observe long term mpg trends.

I have observed differences in gas with the butt dino (LOL unintended joke) and I suspect it is to do with ethanol % which can vary.

I have observed better performance with Shell and Valero and sluggish performance with Chevron. 76 and Costco somewhere in between.

BUT, 15c is about a 5% difference which I doubt you'd recoup even if the expensive gas has zero ethanol and the cheap gas has the maximum 10%.
Posted by: Donald

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:47 AM

How are people determining a good gas vs a crummy gas? Most cars have anti-knock sensors so you may not notice a tiny difference in octane. Fuel tanks and fuel filters are usually spotless unless you have not driven the vehicle for many years.

Most people are not pulling heads to look for deposits and doing fuel injector testing to see how clean they are.
Posted by: dparm

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Donald
How are people determining a good gas vs a crummy gas? Most cars have anti-knock sensors so you may not notice a tiny difference in octane. Fuel tanks and fuel filters are usually spotless unless you have not driven the vehicle for many years.

Most people are not pulling heads to look for deposits and doing fuel injector testing to see how clean they are.




My point exactly. I don't understand the arbitrary "gas X is better than Y" posts. There are minimum quality requirements anyway.
Posted by: taurus_sable

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Why do you need high octane?

I need >91 for my volkswagon 3.0T engine.
Posted by: CourierDriver

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:55 AM

O boy,,,is this gonna be a top tier gas report,,,,hmmmmmmm
Posted by: Tdbo

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:57 AM

Given that both are blessed by the "Top Tier" Gods, I'd say they are about the same.
Posted by: Kuato

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 12:12 PM

Meh, they travel in the same pipeline.

Had a buddy who swore he got better mpg with Shell. If your mpg doesn't vary with fuel, buy the less expensive of the two.
Posted by: EricF

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 01:27 PM

I've never liked shell gas for 1 reason, but today 2.
the first being, it always costs more no matter what.
the second stems for my Ranger
the people who owned my truck before me used shell exclusively, they had to put 92 (at the time) octane in. When I bought it from them, they told me if I didn't use 92, the motor would ping constantly.
So after the tank emptied out, I decided to test that theory and I put Unocal 76 regular unleaded in. Not one problem.
after that tank, I put 10 gallons of shell regular unleaded (87) in, and yes, I noticed a ping.
I burned 5 gallons up, and filled up on Unocal 76 regular unleaded.
the pinging stopped. Next 3 tanks were Unocal.
I then went to Arco because I was out of town and didn't want to use Shell. Not one problem.
Well fast forward 15 years, I use cheap fuel, Costco mainly, Valero if I'm deathly low (cuz a valero station is across the street from me). No pinging, no problems.

However, where I live, there's 3 gas suppliers, shell, chevron and this one called golden eagle. Of these 3 refineries, I know that wherever you go, you're getting one of these fuels.
You get the same gas, but their proprietary additives.

So all you can do is hope you're getting what you're getting.
Posted by: ARCOgraphite

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Donald
How are people determining a good gas vs a crummy gas? Most cars have anti-knock sensors so you may not notice a tiny difference in octane. Fuel tanks and fuel filters are usually spotless unless you have not driven the vehicle for many years.

Most people are not pulling heads to look for deposits and doing fuel injector testing to see how clean they are.




My point exactly. I don't understand the arbitrary "gas X is better than Y" posts. There are minimum quality requirements anyway.
Throttle response, power, power availabilty etc. Things Sentient beings might notice. Oh, thats right we are in the Dark Ages - Part Deux. Flat earthers rejoice!


Quality requirements and Top Tier policing is a Joke.
Posted by: dparm

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Donald
How are people determining a good gas vs a crummy gas? Most cars have anti-knock sensors so you may not notice a tiny difference in octane. Fuel tanks and fuel filters are usually spotless unless you have not driven the vehicle for many years.

Most people are not pulling heads to look for deposits and doing fuel injector testing to see how clean they are.




My point exactly. I don't understand the arbitrary "gas X is better than Y" posts. There are minimum quality requirements anyway.
Throttle response, power, power availabilty etc. Things Sentient beings might notice. Oh, thats right we are in the Dark Ages - Part Deux. Flat earthers rejoice!


Quality requirements and Top Tier policing is a Joke.



You really notice that big of a difference in power from one brand of gas to the next? Your butt dyno is the most sensitive I've ever read about, in that case.

I've never seen anything conclusive, but I'd bet the average person can't even detect a 5% change in power output. It's why companies who sell air intakes claiming 7hp laugh all the way to the bank.
Posted by: NMBurb02

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 03:17 PM

With those two brands, I would go by price, unless the Exxon station is poorly maintained and a low volume station, increasing the chance of getting contaminated or stale fuel (then I might pay the 15 premium). I have Shell, Mobil, Chevron, 76, ARCO, and USA stations within 1.5 miles of my house. I normally go to the Shell or Chevron stations, but will also buy from the Mobil or 76 stations (I drink the Top Tier koolaid) if they are less expensive or more convenient.
Posted by: dlundblad

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 03:30 PM

I've used all brands and my mileage still sucks.
Posted by: CourierDriver

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 03:41 PM

No matter what gas I put in my old and probably deceased 67 Beetle , it still took about 30 seconds to reach 60 mph and that was if I left the wife I use to have standing at the gas station,,,of course I always went back to get her,,,why?? I don't really know....
Posted by: SLCraig

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 03:56 PM

I do not see what difference it makes.

I fill up everywhere, never seem to notice a difference in the car.
Posted by: HTSS_TR

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 06:04 PM

Even knowing that almost all name brands gas are similar I still prefer Chevron more than any other, if they are few pennies more I will fill up there, if they are more than 10 cents more then I will fill up at Shell, Mobil, 76, USA gas ...

In my area Shell is usually less than others by about 2-10 cents a gallon, Chevron is the most expensive more than 10-20 cents more than USA gas.
Posted by: TiredTrucker

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 07:22 PM

Having hauled gas and diesel up until a few years ago, the gas at every station in a particular area is getting their fuel from the same terminal locations. And those terminal locations are getting their fuel from the same refinery, though the refineries will play a round robin kind of thing once in a while.

It was hit upon correctly, that gas is the same, only the additives may be different. When I would load a tanker, I selected who was getting the gas. The system would dose the gas as it was loaded with the additives that the customer wanted. Now, to that end, all the easily recognized name brands are getting just about the very same gasoline and additives. The only differences are between them and the regional convenience store kind of gas stations, which will only request a very basic, minimal additive supplement.

Just go with the best price you can get your fuel for. Forget the silly nonsense about who has the best gas. It is true that maybe the load the Chevron got down the street got yesterday was from a different refinery, since the terminal may have switched suppliers and the load the BP down the street is different today because of that switch. It jumps back and forth all the time.

Brand loyalty is really something. But a simple look behind the scenes can really be an eye opener. But some will continue to where blinders and claim one brand is better than the other. They just know!
Posted by: Garak

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just go with the best price you can get your fuel for. Forget the silly nonsense about who has the best gas. It is true that maybe the load the Chevron got down the street got yesterday was from a different refinery, since the terminal may have switched suppliers and the load the BP down the street is different today because of that switch. It jumps back and forth all the time.

Or, when you have Petro-Canadas up here that prefer to temporarily close a station rather than buy their gas from someone else.
Posted by: OVERKILL

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Just go with the best price you can get your fuel for. Forget the silly nonsense about who has the best gas. It is true that maybe the load the Chevron got down the street got yesterday was from a different refinery, since the terminal may have switched suppliers and the load the BP down the street is different today because of that switch. It jumps back and forth all the time.

Or, when you have Petro-Canadas up here that prefer to temporarily close a station rather than buy their gas from someone else.


That sounds awfully Quebec-esque Garak wink
Posted by: TFB1

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
I usually use Shell 93 only. But I can find Exxon 93 for $0.15/gal cheaper than Shell in my area. Is it worth the switch?


Assuming your vehicle recommends 87, use that and you'll save FAR more money than worrying about competing brands...

Me I'll use Shell and won't go near a Exxon station... All that stems from a 5.0 Mustang I owned that had a unexplainable buck/surge that turned out to be Exxon gas... Now this was in 1996 and I've bought their gas exactly twice since then, only when I was low and not sure where the next station may be... The 5.0 stang??? Sold it in '97...
Posted by: Garak

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That sounds awfully Quebec-esque Garak wink

Now that you mention it, you're right. I believe it was a couple months back when they had a supply problem here. Shockingly, instead of using that as an excuse to raise the price, they left that alone. They did state that they wouldn't buy fuel from anyone else unless absolutely necessary, and just switched the pumps off at the south Albert Street locations. It only lasted a few days.
Posted by: taurus_sable

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Having hauled gas and diesel up until a few years ago, the gas at every station in a particular area is getting their fuel from the same terminal locations. And those terminal locations are getting their fuel from the same refinery, though the refineries will play a round robin kind of thing once in a while.

It was hit upon correctly, that gas is the same, only the additives may be different. When I would load a tanker, I selected who was getting the gas. The system would dose the gas as it was loaded with the additives that the customer wanted. Now, to that end, all the easily recognized name brands are getting just about the very same gasoline and additives. The only differences are between them and the regional convenience store kind of gas stations, which will only request a very basic, minimal additive supplement.

Just go with the best price you can get your fuel for. Forget the silly nonsense about who has the best gas. It is true that maybe the load the Chevron got down the street got yesterday was from a different refinery, since the terminal may have switched suppliers and the load the BP down the street is different today because of that switch. It jumps back and forth all the time.

Brand loyalty is really something. But a simple look behind the scenes can really be an eye opener. But some will continue to where blinders and claim one brand is better than the other. They just know!


Thanks for the insider info. Shell's gas is nitrogen enriched, in which step does Shell do that? after the gas is loaded to the gas station tanks?
Posted by: FZ1

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/21/14 11:23 PM

Top tier for my Honda. Exxon,Shell,run fine. Chevron,with techron,seems to get,slightly,better mpg.
Posted by: NMBurb02

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/22/14 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Having hauled gas and diesel up until a few years ago, the gas at every station in a particular area is getting their fuel from the same terminal locations. And those terminal locations are getting their fuel from the same refinery, though the refineries will play a round robin kind of thing once in a while.

It was hit upon correctly, that gas is the same, only the additives may be different. When I would load a tanker, I selected who was getting the gas. The system would dose the gas as it was loaded with the additives that the customer wanted. Now, to that end, all the easily recognized name brands are getting just about the very same gasoline and additives. The only differences are between them and the regional convenience store kind of gas stations, which will only request a very basic, minimal additive supplement.

Just go with the best price you can get your fuel for. Forget the silly nonsense about who has the best gas. It is true that maybe the load the Chevron got down the street got yesterday was from a different refinery, since the terminal may have switched suppliers and the load the BP down the street is different today because of that switch. It jumps back and forth all the time.

Brand loyalty is really something. But a simple look behind the scenes can really be an eye opener. But some will continue to where blinders and claim one brand is better than the other. They just know!


Thanks for the insider info. Shell's gas is nitrogen enriched, in which step does Shell do that? after the gas is loaded to the gas station tanks?

It's a nitrogen-based detergent (as is Techron), not nitrogen gas, which is added at the depot with the rest of the additive package.
Posted by: Subdued

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/22/14 02:29 AM

I just fill up at the rez with nice tax free gas, my engines run fine
Posted by: MCompact

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/22/14 01:00 PM

I generally use either BP or Shell, as they are the most prevalent Top Tier fuels in my area. I can't tell a difference between the two.
Posted by: Clevy

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/22/14 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
I usually use Shell 93 only. But I can find Exxon 93 for $0.15/gal cheaper than Shell in my area. Is it worth the switch?



We don't have Exxon fuel here however our esso brand is the imperial oil and Exxon equivalent.
From experience I've tried many different fuels and in my vehicles I never really noticed any difference however my Harley is a different story.
It's got an S&S big bore kit,cams,port work on the heads and they were milled for compression(and to flatten them perfectly)dyno tune etc,etc.
My bike is very picky when it comes to fuel. My bike runs great on shell 91 v-power,co-op 91 octane and petro-Canada 91 octane.
The husky/Mohawk 92-94 octane stuff is hit and miss,I think its dependent on how old the fuel is. My bike also looses 5mpg with Mohawk/husky fuel so I don't bother with it anymore.
My bike pings audibly with esso 91,fasgas 91 and basically every station other than the 3 I mentioned above.
Only my bike pings though,my vehicles run fine on any of the above fuels however I use my bike as the standard and if the fuel is no good in it,then I steer clear of the station/brand altogether.
I suggest trying out both stations and run 3 tanks of each brand and track mileage. Then go with the one that gave the best results.
15 cents a gallon isn't a lot of money in the long run however it is better to have in your pocket than an oil companies.
Posted by: Bamaro

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 01/23/14 09:42 AM

For all practical purposes, zero difference.
Posted by: tcchien69

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/07/17 12:59 PM

1. Note: Only Shell's premium grade has the advertised (V-Power) additive.

2. Infinitely so (and even more so with Chevron which was the only brand chosen by all 3 major U.S. automakers to use in their emissions testing):


2.1. Despite: a) being the highest revenue co. (of any industry) in the world and making profits hand over fist almost every year for decades, b) similarly priced and name brand Chevron (in all grades) and Shell (in premium) having had advertised additives for decades and c) both those brands and even several generic brands voluntarily meeting the Top Tier standard for over a decade, it took Exxon until a few years ago, coincidentally after their numerous stations literally got replaced with equally numerous Chevron stations in their own home world HQ of DFW, that they finally started both: a) advertising their additive and b) meeting Top Tier standard.

2.2. The entire payout for the Exxon Valdez spill (which they've continued fighting decades later when some of the claimants have already died) even after being reduced to ~1/10 in 2008 by USSC (to $508 mil) would only be a fraction* of their annual profits!?! "fraction" as in $566 mil. (adj. for inflation) ~= 7.2% of their annual 2016 Net Income of $7.84 bil.

2.3. They've funded climate change denial "'studies'" and organizations for decades and their CEO publicly ridiculed the widely-accepted climate change science.

2.4. As recently as a few years ago, while the other name brand and similarly large co., Chevron, touted clean energy initiatives on their home page, with Exxon's website, it was crickets, crickets, ...

Exxon is too smug and evil to deserve your business no matter what they do!
Posted by: 4WD

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/07/17 01:28 PM

Yep - these are the exact two brands I use in all vehicles - I see or feel no difference in the fuels - BTW - they split an additive company - hmm ...
Please send me one jar of V-Power and one jar of Synergy and I'll post the test on YouTube ...
Posted by: Eddie

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/07/17 07:21 PM

I alternate between Shell, Exon and other top-tier fuel. The rational being that some additive packs work better on some type of deposits, so I should get better overall cleaning and power than a one-kind-does-it-all. I think one of the car manufactures recommended this way back and it makes sense to me, so I do it. Ed
Posted by: rsylvstr

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/07/17 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Subdued
I just fill up at the rez with nice tax free gas, my engines run fine


Not much cheaper at our reservation.
And it is (or was) 86 octane.
Posted by: babyivan

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Given that both are blessed by the "Top Tier" Gods, I'd say they are about the same.
this. can we move on now....
Posted by: 4WD

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 10:31 AM

Some guy posted he was a retired CE in charge of fuel add pack team. Without naming companies - said he uses 3 tanks from his former company and 4th tank is random.
Posted by: kschachn

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Some guy posted he was a retired CE in charge of fuel add pack team. Without naming companies - said he uses 3 tanks from his former company and 4th tank is random.

Can't get any more concrete than that wink
Posted by: philipp10

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 11:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Donald
How are people determining a good gas vs a crummy gas? Most cars have anti-knock sensors so you may not notice a tiny difference in octane. Fuel tanks and fuel filters are usually spotless unless you have not driven the vehicle for many years.

Most people are not pulling heads to look for deposits and doing fuel injector testing to see how clean they are.


Exactly...they are determining good vs bad by how well the companies advertising is. Gas is gas....get over it.
Posted by: SatinSilver

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 11:54 AM

Here you go guys although this is years ago:



Posted by: Traction

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 05:31 PM

All I can say is, it's so easy to fall into the trap of if it costs more, it must be better! The marketing department is counting on you to make them more money.
Posted by: babyivan

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Traction
All I can say is, it's so easy to fall into the trap of if it costs more, it must be better! The marketing department is counting on you to make them more money.

Amen Brotha! I fill up with the cheapest top tier, END OF STORY.
Sunoco (newly top tier, btw) is .30 cheaper per gal than the Shell by me, so they get my money.
Posted by: bbhero

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/08/17 08:33 PM

I don't blame you or anyone for boycotting Exxon Mobil. I certainly support that decision in a semi free market economy. I will say I boycotted Exxon Mobil gas for over 20 yrs after I started driving because of the Valdez incident. I lifted my ban when I got to thinking about how moonbats put a windfall tax on them. Their profit margin is 10%. Well if you sell 725 billion worth of product then your profit will rather high at 10%. Where the windfall tax on Bill Gates?? How much profit margin was his corporation making to help that geek be worth 66 billion plus by himself?? Where were the moonbats on taxing him because they thought he was making too much money??? Ohh... Yeah. That didn't happen. Maybe because he was good buddies with the "right" people. Ohh and when your good friend starts flying on a commercial airline instead of his private jet which consumes more fuel in a cross country trip than an average American uses in a calendar year, sells his 10,000 sq foot home (this individual has a second place to say at in San Francisco by the way), and lives in an 1000 sq foot place then... Then I will believe the farce that he propagates.

As far as it comes to which gas is better I think that it truly is a coin flip. I like Shell quite well. Though when I lifted my ban on Exxon Mobil I found the gas from them ran rather well too.
Posted by: 4WD

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/09/17 05:44 AM

Yep - top of top ten is pharmaceutical at 30% ... funds, tobacco, software , biotechnology, savings & loan, IT, banks at the bottom of top ten at 23%
Posted by: TiredTrucker

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/09/17 07:39 PM

One may be able to boycott a XOM station, but they cannot boycott XOM fuel. A terminal will get its fuel from a variety of refineries. And all the stations in the local area get their fuel from the same terminal(s) in the area. Only thing different is the additives shot into the fuel stream as it is loaded on the tanker for delivery. Any station, on any given day, will have a mix of refinery fuels in the tanks. They don't get to pick which refinery they get their fuel from. They can only select a terminal from those in the area. And every station uses a simple method.... what terminal has the lowest current market price on fuel and the distance that affects delivery cost.
Posted by: y_p_w

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/09/17 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One may be able to boycott a XOM station, but they cannot boycott XOM fuel. A terminal will get its fuel from a variety of refineries. And all the stations in the local area get their fuel from the same terminal(s) in the area. Only thing different is the additives shot into the fuel stream as it is loaded on the tanker for delivery. Any station, on any given day, will have a mix of refinery fuels in the tanks. They don't get to pick which refinery they get their fuel from. They can only select a terminal from those in the area. And every station uses a simple method.... what terminal has the lowest current market price on fuel and the distance that affects delivery cost.

I think there are a few variables at work here. One is that if it's 93 octane it may be a "specialty fuel" that's not necessarily sold as a commodity. I've certainly heard about a wider distribution of 93 octane in the Midwest, but I was under the impression that it was due to lower demand for premium making higher octane premium more practical. It may not be. A few years back I was in Florida and I did see some gas stations selling 87/89/92/94. The latter carried a steep price increase (maybe 20 cents over 92). However, I understand that some gas stations in the Midwest might have 87/89/93.

Also - a lot of brand name stations have contracts to buy directly from their brand name refiner. When there have been rapid price fluctuations, a lot of franchise owners around here have complained that they were locked into paying the price of their brand name refiner. Of course the delivered fuel may be a commodity even if it's "purchased" as a branded fuel. I understand the way that the major pipeline operators work is that they're paid to accept RBOB at a refinery and they're obligated to deliver the same amount of equivalent fuel at terminal X, Y, and Z for that refiner's customers. The pipeline operator saves time and expense by routing fuel in the shortest route possible to meet their delivery requirements, and other fuel typically comes from the closest refinery to save on transportation costs. Of course that's where the ethanol is added since pipelines don't play nice with ethanol.

I get that a refiner can pay more to get a "segregated" delivery of fuel from point to point rather than the "fungible" model. Colonial describes it pretty well:

Quote:
http://www.colpipe.com/home/about-colonial/frequently-asked-questions

What is the difference between fungible and segregated products?

Fungible products shipped on the Colonial system are generic products. These products meet published Colonial specifications. Shippers will receive equivalent product but may not get back the actual product shipped. Segregated products are branded products or blendstock materials. On segregated shipments shippers receive the same product they injected into the system.
Posted by: Nyogtha

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/09/17 11:07 PM

In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.
Posted by: Brons2

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 10:48 AM

I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.
Posted by: nthach

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Brons2
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.


Ditto - I pass by a Costco when I drive up to my parents or the local Wal-Mart and it's right there when I fill up.

XOM did sign an distribution agreement with Tesoro or Valero in NorCal, and they sold their Torrance refinery. Uber inked a deal with XOM to give their "partners" a small break on fuel - around the same time I've seen a few of the local 76 stations convert to Mobil.
Posted by: philipp10

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Brons2
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.


What is the definition of the words "top tier"?????
Posted by: y_p_w

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.

I'm not sure how a company like Shell handles it. They have a major distribution center in Carson, California where their refinery used to be. Their only West Coast refineries are in Martinez, California and Puget Sound in Washington. I suspect that it wouldn't be economically feasible to transport fuel that far most of the time, although it might make sense to have some sort of exchange contracts with other oil companies.
Posted by: y_p_w

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.


What is the definition of the words "top tier"?????

Top Tier is a brand name. It was a consortium started by several auto companies including Honda, GM, and BMW. They wanted a standard out there for detergent levels in fuels to provide superior engine cleanliness. Basically there's a requirement that the detergent additive be tested for performance. The oil companies then purchase this additive (although some might make their own) and guarantee that they will use a suitable additive at minimum levels in all the fuel they sell at every station in the United States (or Canada).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline
Posted by: Nyogtha

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.

I'm not sure how a company like Shell handles it. They have a major distribution center in Carson, California where their refinery used to be. Their only West Coast refineries are in Martinez, California and Puget Sound in Washington. I suspect that it wouldn't be economically feasible to transport fuel that far most of the time, although it might make sense to have some sort of exchange contracts with other oil companies.


Wet barrel product exchange agreements are a backbone of the fuels industry.

When I was a blendineer the driver to switch from blending 92 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded to 93 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded started for one specific terminal our company owned in the South Texas market due to an exchange agreement with Shell for our newly constructed & commissioned pipeline & terminal. I also designed the manifold and pumping station at our refinery for that new pipeline. Of course our company increased our brand to 93 premium for logistics simplification and to stay competitive shortly afterwards.
Posted by: y_p_w

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/10/17 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.

I'm not sure how a company like Shell handles it. They have a major distribution center in Carson, California where their refinery used to be. Their only West Coast refineries are in Martinez, California and Puget Sound in Washington. I suspect that it wouldn't be economically feasible to transport fuel that far most of the time, although it might make sense to have some sort of exchange contracts with other oil companies.


Wet barrel product exchange agreements are a backbone of the fuels industry.

When I was a blendineer the driver to switch from blending 92 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded to 93 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded started for one specific terminal our company owned in the South Texas market due to an exchange agreement with Shell for our newly constructed & commissioned pipeline & terminal. I also designed the manifold and pumping station at our refinery for that new pipeline. Of course our company increased our brand to 93 premium for logistics simplification and to stay competitive shortly afterwards.

I remember when a friend was absolutely convinced that fuel was better from certain sellers (Chevron, Shell, Mobil) but that other brands were garbage like Arco and Exxon (pre-merger). The strange thing was that he was a business major in college and I would have thought that he would have understood the concept of fungible commodities. However, he was huge on brand names. He was also convinced that anything made in Germany or Japan must be a superior product.

I live reasonably close to the Chevron Richmond, California refinery. Anyone driving there will see lots of tankers coming and going for their fuel deliveries. However, I've found that there are four different fuel terminals there including Chevron, Kinder Morgan, Phillip 66, and Plains All American. The really odd thing is that the Phillips 66 terminal is about 6 miles from their refinery in Rodeo, California. I think the terminal is right next to a tanker dock, so I suppose they use the terminal to take in crude as well as deliver finished fuels. I don't think there's a suitable dock at Rodeo.
Posted by: nthach

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/11/17 01:39 PM

I'm convinced in states like California the base fuel is the same on a chemistry level - it's the add pack and how the station owner treats their fuel. I've seen a Arco owner in Mill Valley punch holes into the dispenser filters to increase flow - but there were some high dollar cars going there. Costco is notable for injecting their add pack at the POS, I'm sure this is a cost cutting move that actually works.

I bike out to Rodeo or Point Richmond every now and then - the 76 tanker rack isn't by a dock(but Honda and Subaru share one nearby at AWC) but it's near a Union Pacific or BNSF railhead. Philips 66 does have a crude pipeline between Rodeo and SLO/Santa Barbara.
Posted by: y_p_w

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/11/17 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: nthach
I'm convinced in states like California the base fuel is the same on a chemistry level - it's the add pack and how the station owner treats their fuel. I've seen a Arco owner in Mill Valley punch holes into the dispenser filters to increase flow - but there were some high dollar cars going there. Costco is notable for injecting their add pack at the POS, I'm sure this is a cost cutting move that actually works.

I bike out to Rodeo or Point Richmond every now and then - the 76 tanker rack isn't by a dock(but Honda and Subaru share one nearby at AWC) but it's near a Union Pacific or BNSF railhead. Philips 66 does have a crude pipeline between Rodeo and SLO/Santa Barbara.

i've been to that ARCO station. It's maybe the cheapest place to get anywhere in the area and there are lines on the street.

Costco doesn't add at the point of sale but at the time of delivery. I do wonder about how effectively blended it is when I'm pumping and there's a tanker there delivering a load. Splash blending at the terminal should usually result in well blended fuel by the time it reaches the gas station.
Posted by: Nyogtha

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/11/17 08:57 PM

Splash blending system good design practice is to ensure components are well mixed before exiting the delivery device. Extra time in the tank truck compartment, plus agitation when drained to the station tank, doesn't hurt but the additives should be well mixed entering the truck tank. If sampled at that point it should be good to go, as the truckload should be good to go before departing the terminal as design philosophy.

Not sure how Coscto accomplishes good mixing but I'm sure they get there somehow. I'd be curious about filling up a vehicle during a product delivery drop like you though if I had a Costco membership.
Posted by: y_p_w

Re: How much better is Shell gas than Exxon? - 07/12/17 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Splash blending system good design practice is to ensure components are well mixed before exiting the delivery device. Extra time in the tank truck compartment, plus agitation when drained to the station tank, doesn't hurt but the additives should be well mixed entering the truck tank. If sampled at that point it should be good to go, as the truckload should be good to go before departing the terminal as design philosophy.

Not sure how Coscto accomplishes good mixing but I'm sure they get there somehow. I'd be curious about filling up a vehicle during a product delivery drop like you though if I had a Costco membership.

I thought it would work well if they could alternate tanks such that an active delivery would be only to a tank that's not going to the retail pumps. The one photo I saw of a Costco tank installation was of three main tanks. If that's two regular and one premium, then I'm not sure how they could alternate premium tanks.

Here's a document on Costco's installations:

http://soniasorensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Costco-T-C2-CUPA-2013.pdf

There was an older document but that's no longer available.