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Why do people hate lucas products?

Posted By: Sunabozu

Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:31 AM

I've noticed that a lot of people are anti-lucas, why?

I've used the oil stabilizer in my truck religiously and it keeps lifter noise to a minimum. And the fuel additive seems to improve milage.''

So why?
Posted By: Seb

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:34 AM

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:41 AM

does the lucas full syn do this? because that's what i use.
Posted By: Nick R

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:46 AM

Lucas Oil stabilizer is crud. I dunno about their oils. I know the Power Steering stuff did what I wanted it to do, it helped eliminate play in my steering on center.
Posted By: postjeeprcr

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:55 AM



The test Bob did is not worth anything
Posted By: exranger06

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:55 AM

I've never felt the need to "stabilize" my oil. I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish by using it. Considering that pretty much any engine can go 300k miles on the cheapest conventional oil, I don't see the use/purpose of most oil additives in general.
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:55 AM

i was thinking that, but i didn't want to step on toes.



edit: i meant to quote "the test isn't worth anything"
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 05:56 AM

Originally Posted By: exranger06
I've never felt the need to "stabilize" my oil. I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish by using it. Considering that pretty much any engine can go 300k miles on the cheapest conventional oil, I don't see the use/purpose of most oil additives in general.


my engine is over 300k, so really anything i can do to keep'er goin, i'm gonna try, you know?
Posted By: dsmith41

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:18 AM

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr

The test Bob did is not worth anything


Why do you say that?
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:31 AM

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr

The test Bob did is not worth anything


Why do you say that?


well, *my* initial thought would be that an engine's oil pump would be completely submerged and wouldn't be able to introduce the air bubbles like this high speed gear rig.

i'd really like to see what his rig does with motor oil if he filled the box to the 50% mark and fired it up.
Posted By: Nick R

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Sunabozu
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr

The test Bob did is not worth anything


Why do you say that?


well, *my* initial thought would be that an engine's oil pump would be completely submerged and wouldn't be able to introduce the air bubbles like this high speed gear rig.

i'd really like to see what his rig does with motor oil if he filled the box to the 50% mark and fired it up.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:46 AM

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: Sunabozu
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr

The test Bob did is not worth anything


Why do you say that?


well, *my* initial thought would be that an engine's oil pump would be completely submerged and wouldn't be able to introduce the air bubbles like this high speed gear rig.

i'd really like to see what his rig does with motor oil if he filled the box to the 50% mark and fired it up.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation


i would almost bet lefty that motor oil can not cavitate inside the oil pump.

can motor oil even do that, uh, ever?

edit: even if it could, why would making the oil thicker reduce the vapor pressure?
Posted By: Nick R

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:48 AM

Don't know, but you asked how you could introduce air bubbles when something is completely submerged. But I would bet that motor oil CAN cavitate. Whether or not it can do it inside an oil pump, I have no clue.
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:58 AM

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Don't know, but you asked how you could introduce air bubbles when something is completely submerged. But I would bet that motor oil CAN cavitate. Whether or not it can do it inside an oil pump, I have no clue.


yeah but even then, it wouldn't be air bubbles, it would be oil vapor, air isn't dissolved in motor oil.
Posted By: dsmith41

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 07:13 AM

But in a gear oil, cavitation would be a concern.
Posted By: Hethaerto

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 07:28 AM

The best thing about LOS is the tackifier elements. It helps it stick to engine surfaces. I'm using GC right now, and the first thing I noticed is how well it clings to the dipstick, unlike most all other oils I've used. I figure this oil has plenty of tackification inherently, so I'm not using LOS right now.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 08:00 AM

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr


The test Bob did is not worth anything


Well why do Lucas use that exact same test on my local car parts suppliers bench to prove how good it is ?
Posted By: Johnny

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Hethaerto
The best thing about LOS is the tackifier elements. It helps it stick to engine surfaces. I'm using GC right now, and the first thing I noticed is how well it clings to the dipstick, unlike most all other oils I've used. I figure this oil has plenty of tackification inherently, so I'm not using LOS right now.


GC clings because of its Ester content and its natural polar attraction to metal. Any product with a tackifier in it only works while the product is cold (room temp). At operating temps the tackifier is useless.
Posted By: Sunabozu

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 08:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr


The test Bob did is not worth anything


Well why do Lucas use that exact same test on my local car parts suppliers bench to prove how good it is ?


they don't spin their test at 3 grand
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:50 AM

But your engine, gearbox and diff do.
Posted By: postjeeprcr

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 10:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr


The test Bob did is not worth anything


Well why do Lucas use that exact same test on my local car parts suppliers bench to prove how good it is ?



It is not the exact same "test" but it is because people who do not know any better will believe it works from that little device.
Posted By: postjeeprcr

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr

The test Bob did is not worth anything


Why do you say that?


It has been discussed many times on this site why that little test is not valid
Posted By: JetStar

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 01:17 PM

Their bike oil isn't any good, and I never saw the need to add any disco oils to my crankcase.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Sunabozu
I've noticed that a lot of people are anti-lucas, why?

I've used the oil stabilizer in my truck religiously and it keeps lifter noise to a minimum. And the fuel additive seems to improve milage.''

So why?


We had a mechanic the used car dept send trades to that prepped them for the line when I worked at a Honda Dealer. This guy swore by the Lucas Oil additive, he threw a qt of it into an engine that had noise. Funny thing was after the customers had the car a while some found the noise came back after an oil change, once the Lucas came out. I heard the synthetic stabilizer is the better of the two. I don't use any of their products by am familiar with them because of this mechanic I knew.
Posted By: andyd

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 01:44 PM

I used about a pint of the Lucas oil additive as a cam lube when I R+Red the head on a CRV. It worked fine for that purpose, but it was no where near as tacky as STP which I have used in the past on OH cams. It kept flowing off the lobes. I would consider using it to get a few thousand more miles out of a worn out engine. But my BMW I6s dont get that bad before the body rust gets them.
Posted By: Win

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 03:39 PM

The Lucas synthetic oil worked well enough in the LS1 in my 2004 GTO, and according to the onboard computer gave slightly (not significant) better fuel economy than some others.

When I removed the Lucas and put in the revered brand "A" wonder oil, it began to lightly piston slap. It never did that on any other oil.

This is one off anecdotal, of course, but I know which one I would use again, and which one I likely will not.
Posted By: punisher

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 04:11 PM

No comment on Lucas additives........,but oil pumps cavitate like crazy. Usually, you never notice it. Once in awhile you run across oddball wear patterns on pump gears, almost like somebody sandblasted the edges of the teeth. If you look inside pump housings you can see small areas where you have the pressure transients that cause the cavitation problems. Any air or water vapor bubbles make the problem worse. Any product that helps to entrain vapor bubbles in the oil is really not a good thing.
Posted By: Vikas

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Sunabozu

my engine is over 300k, so really anything i can do to keep'er goin, i'm gonna try, you know?


Well, if it is at 300K, whatever was done during that 300K must be the right thing. Just keep on doing that!

- Vikas
Posted By: dsmith41

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:01 PM

This is 2009. Oils are great. No need to spend money on something else to put in your oil. If you must, spend that extra money on getting a higher quality oil to begin with. I've never used an oil additive and I know this is hard to believe, but I've never had any problems. My engines don't just purr, they sing.
Posted By: PT1

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Sunabozu
I've noticed that a lot of people are anti-lucas, why?



I like fuel systems cleaners and use them regularly but believe there are better ones like Techron or Redline versus Lucas. As for oil stabilizers...if you need a stabilizer additive (which is really just a thicker higher viscosity oil) to mask engine noise you either need engine repair or a different oil altogether or the noise is normal. How can one additive be compatible with literally dozens of motor oil formulas? Easy: It is a weak oil that has very few additives that simply increases the viscosity of the oil you dump it in. The same thing can be accomplished by adding a quart of 40w or 50w oil to your current multigrade fill for a fraction of the cost. If I want to really thicken my oil I will add a quart of Pennzoil 40w for $4.
Posted By: PT1

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Win
The Lucas synthetic oil worked well enough in the LS1 in my 2004 GTO, and according to the onboard computer gave slightly (not significant) better fuel economy than some others.

When I removed the Lucas and put in the revered brand "A" wonder oil, it began to lightly piston slap. It never did that on any other oil.

This is one off anecdotal, of course, but I know which one I would use again, and which one I likely will not.


Lucas stabilizer will mask piston slap noise in GM engines. They are still slapping...you just don't hear it. But so will a quart of 40w PYB in a fill of PYB 10w40...try it. I did on 2 engines. But once the viscosity starts to shear the slap comes back.
Posted By: PT1

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Sunabozu
I've noticed that a lot of people are anti-lucas, why?

I've used the oil stabilizer in my truck religiously and it keeps lifter noise to a minimum. And the fuel additive seems to improve milage.''

So why?


We had a mechanic the used car dept send trades to that prepped them for the line when I worked at a Honda Dealer. This guy swore by the Lucas Oil additive, he threw a qt of it into an engine that had noise. Funny thing was after the customers had the car a while some found the noise came back after an oil change, once the Lucas came out. I heard the synthetic stabilizer is the better of the two. I don't use any of their products by am familiar with them because of this mechanic I knew.


20w50 will have the same effect. Redline 20w50 Motorcycle oil will quiet even the loudest engines.
Posted By: Win

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:29 PM

I didn't, and don't, use their oil stabilizer.

I used their 5/30 synthetic oil, and would do so again.
Posted By: 38sho

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/28/09 09:58 PM

also on the nice little lucs stabilizer store displays.......

notice which one spins MUCH faster and smoother....... the one without the Lucas.....

fools don't even realize the other one still has oil on it but does the intended job of the gears/motor much better.....
Posted By: artificialist

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/29/09 01:56 AM

I wouldn't use Lucas on a newer vehicle that works well.

However, I have seen great results by putting Lucas PSF in failing power steering systems, and Lucas ATF additive in failing transmissions.

However, I wouldn't use it in newer good vehicles because of foam.
Posted By: Quest

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/29/09 02:07 AM

I don't necessarily hate Lucas, I just don't find values in them given their pricing and rather aggressive promos...

Q. drive
Posted By: JTK

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/29/09 03:32 AM

I don't see a single mention of Lucas UCL fuel add in this thread. As far as I know it serves the same purpose as any other add you dump in your tank.

Joel
Posted By: Audi Junkie

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/29/09 05:14 AM



duh
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/29/09 08:02 AM

Originally Posted By: andyd
I used about a pint of the Lucas oil additive as a cam lube when I R+Red the head on a CRV. It worked fine for that purpose, but it was no where near as tacky as STP which I have used in the past on OH cams.


As an assembly lube, it's OK.

Last turbine overhaul we did, we needed the shafts (60T, sitting on 2 bearings) installed before the lift oil was available.

Lucas did a great job, drizzled down the direction of rotation, once the shaft "cracked", it moved very easily, and didn't squeeze out. 4 rotors, 8 bearings, and 200T of metal, and we used about half a quart of Lucas for about 4 days of re-assembly.

Shafts normally run at 3,000 RPM on 60C ISO32.

I use Lucas UCL religiously. (not on the turbines)
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/29/09 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Sunabozu

i would almost bet lefty that motor oil can not cavitate inside the oil pump.

can motor oil even do that, uh, ever?

edit: even if it could, why would making the oil thicker reduce the vapor pressure?


Timing gears, which aren't submerged are another area of possibility. Transmissions, rear-diffs like Bob's test.

Also, oil pumps can, and DO cavitate. This is why anti-cavitation pumps exist.
Posted By: HighViscosity

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 12/30/09 02:42 PM

I don't see too many vehicles in the sig line with over 300k miles on them. Most people don't keep their cars as long as they think they will. It's that overly optimistic view that leads some to add magic tonics to their vehicle in the hopes of auto immortality. The data on this site and others prove that modern engines well maintained usually last the life of the car. Any attempt to "make things even better" usually just results in a thinner wallet for the owner and sometimes detrimental effects to the engine.

Just like the Lucas thick oil demo at the parts counter, it is designed to dazzle the stupid by implying that your car needs much thicker oil than the manufacturers and oil companies provide.

I did a little experiment last year with my motorcycle where I removed the spark plug and noted the appearance of the piston. I next ran a tank of fuel mixed with Redline SL1, then a tank with Seafoam, then a tank with Lucas UCL which also claims to clean the combustion cylinder. Initially the piston crown had a satin black appearance. After the Redline the carbon was reduced with a few spots of metal reflecting light. Then after the Seafoam the piston improved further reducing carbon by approx 40%. Lastly, I added the Lucas UCL. Now my piston had a sooty black appearance uniformly covering the piston crown.

Even if Lucas does offer an un-needed increase in lubrication, it's negatives outweigh any perceived benefit in my opinion. It is like making your engine simulate being an oil burner. Lucas UCL is a petroleum distillate that has the consistency of motor oil so why would one assume it would burn cleanly without residue. Adding 2 cycle oil may offer some benefits, but shouldn't be needed by most people.
Posted By: pondfishr

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 02/01/10 05:35 AM

If their products are so bad how did they earn enough money to sponsor the Colts football stadium? Just a thought.....
Posted By: Audi Junkie

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 02/01/10 05:51 AM

I think the answer is *self* evident.
Posted By: pondfishr

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 02/01/10 06:04 AM

Interesting
Posted By: robbobster

Re: Why do people hate lucas products? - 02/01/10 07:12 AM

Originally Posted By: pondfishr
If their products are so bad how did they earn enough money to sponsor the Colts football stadium? Just a thought.....


I don't have an opinion about Lucas, but even Enron had naming rights to a stadium at one time.
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