Home

72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L

Posted By: StevieC

72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 04:38 PM

Posted By: thescreensavers

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 04:52 PM

Little confused from the paperwork shown,

Jan 2nd Lube time was 1894 Mi and miles on car was 62944mi

So the oil sample is about 12k miles?

Also how many filter changes where there? The filter is stated to take 1qt.
Posted By: StevieC

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 04:58 PM

Yeah something is up with those dates/mileages for sure... I didn't notice that.

The bypass filtration filters should be changed every 2 years I think. It will remove 1 or so quarts from the system when these are changed so top-off oil is required. Also depends on which filter he is using they have 3 different sized ones available.
Posted By: SirTanon

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 05:00 PM

popcorn This should be an interesting discussion.

I'm not liking those copper numbers AT ALL. Aluminum is starting to go up too. Also, I'm seeing a notable depletion in the additive metals. If I were in that situation, I'd be changing now.
Posted By: StevieC

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 05:12 PM

Same here on the changing it part.
Posted By: Donald

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 06:30 PM

Some of the differences in samples are due to time of the year the sample was taken.

Copper is not good. Too high. Oil cooler? Copper lines for the bypass setup?

At the end of the day a UOA costs more especially from OAI than an oil change.
Posted By: Speak2Mountain

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 07:47 PM

good Lord
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: thescreensavers
Little confused from the paperwork shown,

Jan 2nd Lube time was 1894 Mi and miles on car was 62944mi

So the oil sample is about 12k miles?

Also how many filter changes where there? The filter is stated to take 1qt.


I don't hear exactly how many quarts of new oil was installed over the 60K miles on this oil. He said 1 qt at the bypass filter change, but did he add any along the way from oil consumption. The description info on the YouTube video says:

"In this video I talk about my 2013 Town and Country minivan in which I started using Amsoil oil in it at 18,000 miles(I've been a dealer for 18+ years). I have since installed a bypass filter unit and have begun to you use oil analysis for extended drain intervals. This will be my second oil analysis that I have submitted and I talk about the results and how I am able to continue to drive on the same oil I put in almost 60,000 miles ago."
Posted By: gregk24

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 07:59 PM

I don't see the appeal of doing this, just put fresh oil and a filter annually! It's not that expensive!
Posted By: Speak2Mountain

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 08:06 PM

Agree. Sounds like somebody just likes to brag about going X miles on y oil/filter
Posted By: StevieC

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 09:27 PM

If I were to use Bypass I would never go to this limit but use it to extend an oil change to the point it makes synthetic cost and the extra filter costs worth it over the price of a conventional oil change reaping the benefit of really clean oil all the time and the convenience of a lot longer OCI's. Those that run it this far it just ridiculous.
Posted By: Audios

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 09:54 PM

Amazing to see oil hold up that long. My head would explode if I went that far on it though haha.
Posted By: Johnny2Bad

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/24/18 10:48 PM

Only reason to use bypass filtration ... which I once considered, and am not averse to using in the future ... is to remove sub-10~5 micron contaminants, which does not seem necessary given modern bearing tolerances and wear patterns.

It's not cost-effective for regular "cleaning" of oil or to extend OCIs because modern synthetics mitiatate that need today. Was possibly more useful prior to the fuel injected / computer controlled / conventional only oil era roughly pre-1990. Especially in the 1950's and 1960's when they were first becoming popular (if you read Popular Mechanics and bought in on the backpage ads).

Still, if I were building up a new engine and could amortize the cost over the whole build, I'd still consider it. The rationale there would be then it would allow a freer flowing full flow oil filter, which would pass more oil pressure. I know that is somewhat weak as far as justification goes, but it's not harmful, which is not something you can say for most oil "treatments".

Not Amsol though, too expensive consumables when a case of single-ply Kimberley-Clark commercial rolls are a buck apiece.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/25/18 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Only reason to use bypass filtration ... which I once considered, and am not averse to using in the future ... is to remove sub-10~5 micron contaminants, which does not seem necessary given modern bearing tolerances and wear patterns.


Those sized particles can still do damage on journal bearings that run as tight as 0.0007~0.0010" (18 to 25 microns) clearance. The running MOFT oil wedge will be even smaller than the clearance spec. Any particles that can get sucked into the MOFT wedge of the bearing can do potential damage.
Posted By: Donald

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/25/18 03:31 AM

I think doing a bypass oil filter and UOAs only make sense for engines with large oil sumps, ie., diesel engines.

A bypass does nothing for the additives, they deplete at the same rate whether you have a bypass filter or not.

The oil alone for my Powerstroke (Rotella T6) is close to $90. Add a Ford filter and over $100. This is just buying oil at Walmart and filters at Amazon
Posted By: Crusher

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/25/18 03:38 AM

StevieC
I really appreciate the YouTube video.
I think it's great that you are exploring the boundaries of a dual bypass filter system. I think that you could benefit from more uoa's in order to establish a longer baseline.
I'm currently 31 months and 91k miles into my dual bypass system run. I've done 10 uoa's and I figured out exactly what I need to do to sustain a healthy TBN, without ever changing my oil.
Here's a link to my last 5 uoa's @88k miles.
88k uoa https://imgur.com/gallery/o5IAiqF
Thanks again for your post and Good luck!
Posted By: StevieC

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/25/18 04:44 PM

cheers
Posted By: CT8

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/25/18 11:10 PM

How much did the 10 UOAs cost? How much for the Bypass setup? How much are the replacment filters and 8+ qts of add oil? I am trying to do the math.
Posted By: Crusher

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/26/18 02:40 AM

CT8
That is an excellent question.
I'll answer it the best way I can.
Let's compare it to what I was paying while my expedition was under warranty ( 100k miles )
I brought my own Mobil 1 to my local Ford Dealership approx every 5k miles and my cost was $75. 90k miles worth of oil changes is $1425. Not to mention the time involved getting my oil changed 19 times. Substantial!
Fast forward to the Amsoil Bypass Filter Setup. The Bypass Filter unit is $253. I run the big filters ( like the F250 Powerstroke diesels)
I run the Eao -26(25k mile filter) which costs $17 and the EaBP 100(70k mile filter) which costs $37. A gallon of the Amsoil SS 5w-20 is $37.50. From the beginning I've used 4 full flow filters 4x $17 is $68, 2 bypass filters 2x $37 is $74. 2 gallons of oil. 2x $37.50 is $75. The uoa's are $30 a piece. So 10 x $30 is $300.
So all total
$253 bypass unit
$68 full flow filters
$74 bypass filters
$75 Oil
$300 uoa's
$770 subtotal
$61.6 tax

$831.60 Total

Going fwd I'll be doing uoa's between full flow filter changes only. After 10 uoa's I have an excellent baseline. For example @212.5k miles, 237.5k miles, 262.k miles, 287.5k miles etc.
Posted By: kschachn

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/26/18 11:33 AM

So you take your vehicle into the dealership for a grossly overpriced oil change but you donít list a labor cost for the bypass install? Thatís not exactly a valid comparison. If you do your own oil changes (and did the bypass install yourself or listed the labor cost for installation) the cost differential would be much different.
Posted By: Crusher

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/26/18 06:11 PM

kschachn

Thank you for pointing out that I forgot to include the cost of the install. My mistake.
I have a welder who does work for me on my ranch.
He charged me $100 for Fabrication, Welding and Install.
So all total
$253 bypass unit
$100 installation
$68 full flow filters
$74 bypass filters
$75 Oil
$300 uoa's
$770 subtotal†
$61.6 tax

$931.60 Total


Here's what the setup looks like.
https://imgur.com/a/D9dwr
https://imgur.com/a/sksf5
Posted By: CT8

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/26/18 08:37 PM

The M1 will provide a longer service life then 5,000 miles.
Posted By: Crusher

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/26/18 09:46 PM

CT8
You are correct. M1 can certainly go longer than a 5k oci. It was my intention to do 7500 mile oci's, but it seemed like I often changed the oil early due to frequent long road trips. I figured that it was better to error on the side of caution.
Posted By: kschachn

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/26/18 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Crusher
CT8
You are correct. M1 can certainly go longer than a 5k oci. It was my intention to do 7500 mile oci's, but it seemed like I often changed the oil early due to frequent long road trips. I figured that it was better to error on the side of caution.

Well the long trips are easier on the oil than short ones. If you predominately take longer trips then it is more likely the M1 would go out to the guaranteed limit.
Posted By: beanoil

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 08/30/18 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Little confused from the paperwork shown,

Jan 2nd Lube time was 1894 Mi and miles on car was 62944mi

So the oil sample is about 12k miles?

Also how many filter changes where there? The filter is stated to take 1qt.


I don't hear exactly how many quarts of new oil was installed over the 60K miles on this oil. He said 1 qt at the bypass filter change, but did he add any along the way from oil consumption. The description info on the YouTube video says:

"In this video I talk about my 2013 Town and Country minivan in which I started using Amsoil oil in it at 18,000 miles(I've been a dealer for 18+ years). I have since installed a bypass filter unit and have begun to you use oil analysis for extended drain intervals. This will be my second oil analysis that I have submitted and I talk about the results and how I am able to continue to drive on the same oil I put in almost 60,000 miles ago."


For AmSoil to have so much experience at advertising, you would think they would tube up a video that does not have so many holes in it.
The very statement that it is the same oil as 60k ago is false in itself.
This does not encourage me to go out and get their product.
Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 09/08/18 04:25 PM

Misinformation Gentlemen...You don't have to listen to the soundtrack on the video, READ the UOA report. From about 0:35 to 1:15 on the video, the headings on the second column of the data read Date Sampled, Date Received, Lube Time, Unit Time, Lube Change, Lube ADDED is zero (0) and neither has the filter been changed. He IS running on the same lube for 60K miles.

Not trying to "pick on" anyone here, let's just READ THE DATA. BTW. another poster has complained about the aluminum and copper...well, the test lab didn't flag them, but it seems some armchair tribologist on BITOG doesn't like them. Tough. Do whatever lets you sleep at night, and the OP can do likewise.

However, the grim reaper is the TBN, which, however slow, IS on an irreversible path down, so an eventual oil change is inevitable. But not today. Thanks to the OP for sharing.

Originally Posted by beanoil
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Little confused from the paperwork shown,

Jan 2nd Lube time was 1894 Mi and miles on car was 62944mi

So the oil sample is about 12k miles?

Also how many filter changes where there? The filter is stated to take 1qt.


I don't hear exactly how many quarts of new oil was installed over the 60K miles on this oil. He said 1 qt at the bypass filter change, but did he add any along the way from oil consumption. The description info on the YouTube video says:

"In this video I talk about my 2013 Town and Country minivan in which I started using Amsoil oil in it at 18,000 miles(I've been a dealer for 18+ years). I have since installed a bypass filter unit and have begun to you use oil analysis for extended drain intervals. This will be my second oil analysis that I have submitted and I talk about the results and how I am able to continue to drive on the same oil I put in almost 60,000 miles ago."


For AmSoil to have so much experience at advertising, you would think they would tube up a video that does not have so many holes in it.
The very statement that it is the same oil as 60k ago is false in itself.
This does not encourage me to go out and get their product.
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 10/08/18 10:42 AM

The hardest thing for most to understand is that this type of OCI practice is so very uncommon, and we have VERY LITTLE for comparative purposes. You cannot look at info like this and try to analyze it in terms of a "normal" UOA, because there are several things which just don't lend themselves to conventional wisdom.

As most know, a UOA is going to see any particle as large as 5um or so, and anything smaller. But most all BP elements (commercially available ones like the Amsoil, MG, FS2500, etc) are all "absolute" around 2um or so, but not so much below that. Hence, any particle that is smaller than 2um has a reasonable chance of staying present in the lube sump for the entire duration of the OCI. Since there are 72k miles on this lube, that is a LOT of residual particulate staying in the sump. I don't care if it's Fe, Cu, soot or whatever, it's still in there if it's smaller than 2um. Which is why we see some substantial Cu in the count. I don't know the source; could be a cooler or could be a bearing. We have no idea. But that does not make it "wrong" to have such high Cu in this UOA. For an equivalent normal value, we'd had to add up the effect of perhaps 15 OCIs worth of Cu presumed to exist under 2um ...
Fe is the commonly accepted tracker of typical normal wear in most UOAs, because it tends to accumulate with exposure. But the Fe here is not nearly as affected as the Cu. That' does not make it wrong; just different. The only time stuff smaller than 2um is removed is when a filter element is changed, and the lube in the filter takes out a portion of the particles left in the OIL, not the media.

I will remind all that stuff this small (2um and smaller) is essentially harmless to the engine in most all cases.

Also, the top off effect with filter changes is difficult to understand. Sure, it bolsters the add-pack a bit, but that also alters the TCB to some degree. No SAE or other entity study data exists that I'm aware of to discuss how these long term effects alter the TCB. We know that the TCB improves with maturity, but there's likely a practical limit to it's growth; probably a parabolic curve that flatten out in terms of layer thickness vs time.

This is anecdotal only because there's very little to compare/contrast it to. We don't know if this is "normal" for this extreme duration or not.

It would be helpful to also have PCs along with these UOAs.

I'll not pass judgement as others have, other than to say it's interesting.
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L - 10/12/18 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by dnewton3


...This is anecdotal only because there's very little to compare/contrast it to. We don't know if this is "normal" for this extreme duration or not.

It would be helpful to also have PCs along with these UOAs.

I'll not pass judgement as others have, other than to say it's interesting.


And anytime you add topoff oil, you aid in refreshing the additive package.
© 2019 Bob Is The Oil Guy