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LB7 Duramax 267k mi; Amsoil 15w-40 5.7k

Posted By: Bdsankey

LB7 Duramax 267k mi; Amsoil 15w-40 5.7k - 08/13/19 01:37 PM

Here are the results of my most recent oil analysis on my LB7 Duramax. It has 267,500 miles on it on what I believe to be the original engine. This oil has ~5700mi on it. I have just taken another sample a few days ago at 267,510mi (7510mi on lube). It is Amsoil HD Diesel Marine 15W40 with an Amsoil EAO 52 filter.

Attached picture oil_analysis_1_LB7.jpg
Posted By: Donald

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 03:43 PM

The copper, lead and tin do seem high, higher than the iron. Copper and maybe lead can be from oil cooler if so equipped.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 03:58 PM

Yes, it has a liquid to liquid oil cooler from the factory that I am planning on upgrading/replacing at my next oil change to gain some efficiency. The 2020 L5P duramax oil cooler can be bolted onto the earlier trucks with just a few small changes that are quick/cheap to do. It takes the oil cooler from a 10 plate to a 20 plate.


The engine has not consumed any oil in 7500mi, it still registers full when checked cold.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 04:31 PM

Is Oil Analyzers a good company to go through or should I be using someone else? I.E. is there someone who is regarded as the "best"?
Posted By: Donald

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 06:09 PM

OAI is a private label from Polaris. Polaris is a good analyzing lab. Your best deal there is to buy a 10 pack. Some companies like Blackstone charge extra for TBN/TAN.

I am using NAPA now, its $16 and you can buy them one at a time. Probably need to get them to order the sample kit.

I have done many with Polaris and many with NAPA. They seem equally good.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 06:30 PM

Sounds good. Do you know of my results will carry over from OAI to Polaris since it appears that they both use the Horizon portal?

Edit:
I just tried to use the Horizon store per Polaris Lab's direction and it doesn't show up as an option. Am I missing something or is it potentially because my account is an OAI account?
Posted By: Donald

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Sounds good. Do you know of my results will carry over from OAI to Polaris since it appears that they both use the Horizon portal?

Edit:
I just tried to use the Horizon store per Polaris Lab's direction and it doesn't show up as an option. Am I missing something or is it potentially because my account is an OAI account?


I think they can do that but you may need to ask.

You can call, they have been helpful in the past whenever I have called.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/13/19 08:07 PM

10
Originally Posted by Donald
Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Sounds good. Do you know of my results will carry over from OAI to Polaris since it appears that they both use the Horizon portal?

Edit:
I just tried to use the Horizon store per Polaris Lab's direction and it doesn't show up as an option. Am I missing something or is it potentially because my account is an OAI account?


I think they can do that but you may need to ask.

You can call, they have been helpful in the past whenever I have called.


10-4, thank you!

I'm wondering if the copper/tin/lead is from an oil cooler degrading or starting to fail?
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/14/19 10:41 AM

As for the wear; it's pretty normal. The Cu is common if you've recently switched to Amsoil; a reaction of chelation. The Pb is probably a spike that will subside; happened to mine once. There's no Pb associated with the cooler.

I presume you are only sampling and not OCI'ing? It's far too soon to be dumping lube.

I don't really understand why you're upgrading the oil cooler. Do you have the LB7 significantly "tuned up" to where it's producing a LOT more power (heat)? Do you track the oil temps; is there evidence they are too high?
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/14/19 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by dnewton3
As for the wear; it's pretty normal. The Cu is common if you've recently switched to Amsoil; a reaction of chelation. The Pb is probably a spike that will subside; happened to mine once. There's no Pb associated with the cooler.

I presume you are only sampling and not OCI'ing? It's far too soon to be dumping lube.

I don't really understand why you're upgrading the oil cooler. Do you have the LB7 significantly "tuned up" to where it's producing a LOT more power (heat)? Do you track the oil temps; is there evidence they are too high?



I am just sampling, not dumping. The latest oil sample went out yesterday to OAI and should have results to post back on Friday or Monday. Yes I have recently switched. Previously the truck had Cenpeco S3 15W40 in it (Cenpeco S3 Data Sheet). The reason I switched was purely because Amsoil sponsored Diesel Power Challenge 2019 and provided me with 10gal free of any engine oil. I chose 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel Marine since I've run it in the past as a child (all my dad used in his pickups/HD equipment) and the results were good. It also was all that was used in my 2005 duramax by the previous owner. At 342k when the motor was torn down (replaced due to bent connecting rod) all the bearings looked absolutely brand new and held clearance within manufacturer's spec for new. The engine in this 2002 is a little tired (some blow-by that I don't like, lower oil pressure than I'd like which is 20psi hot/40 psi cruising down the freeway hot and towing) but it hasn't shown me any signs it needs to be replaced yet. I am planning on running the remaining 7.5 gallons of Amsoil 15W40 HD Diesel Marine through this engine but will only change once this forum or the testing indicates a need.


Before this year I've always done 5k drain intervals on all my diesel pickups. Yes, I understand this was wasting money as the oil did not warrant a replacement but it was what I've done since I was a child and kept up with it regularly. My other truck gets an oil change every 8 sled hooks or 1000mi but it also makes 1300hp+ and money isn't an issue there. I eventually plan on going back to Cenpeco S3 oil once this stock of Amsoil is depleted. They were also gracious enough to provide me with 10gal of Torque Drive ATF (my favorite synthetic ATF for an Allison) that will be going in the transmission once it is built this winter.


The reason for upgrading the cooler is to manage oil temps while towing heavy. Duramax trucks are quite known to run hot oil temps when towing quite heavy (~15k+). The new 2020 oil cooler is a cheap investment as it is roughly $250 for all the required parts to install. I do have the truck tuned but only run on a 75hp tow tune. Coolant temps stay in check (under 200F) as well as trans temps (under 200F) when towing in 90F-95F ambient conditions grossing 24k lbs.
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/15/19 11:32 AM

Generally, and pretty much without exception, Dmax engines are very easy on oil. Dmax's have one of the better lube system designs for any light-duty diesel. Upgrading the oil cooler may prolong the useful oil life, but it's not going to extend the engine life, because there's no real data to conclusively show correlation between oil temps in a Dmax vs. component life. And without correlation, there can be no causation.

A few years back I posted my UOA from my Dmax, after multiple years of oil use culminating in about 11k miles of use. Most of that was pulling our RV out west for vacations. The last trip on the OCI was HEAVILY encumbered with EGTs at or near max, fighting a massive wind front all the way home from SD to IN. The EGTs ran anywhere from 1100-1300 (pre-turbo) nearly all day long. The truck was totally stock in terms of power. I ran dino 10w-30 Rotella. Every UOA I ever did on that engine came back fine. Despite the heat and loading, and being "low" on oil (down around the "add" mark means it's two quarts down from full), it still did great and wear was low.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/15/19 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Generally, and pretty much without exception, Dmax engines are very easy on oil. Dmax's have one of the better lube system designs for any light-duty diesel. Upgrading the oil cooler may prolong the useful oil life, but it's not going to extend the engine life, because there's no real data to conclusively show correlation between oil temps in a Dmax vs. component life. And without correlation, there can be no causation.

A few years back I posted my UOA from my Dmax, after multiple years of oil use culminating in about 11k miles of use. Most of that was pulling our RV out west for vacations. The last trip on the OCI was HEAVILY encumbered with EGTs at or near max, fighting a massive wind front all the way home from SD to IN. The EGTs ran anywhere from 1100-1300 (pre-turbo) nearly all day long. The truck was totally stock in terms of power. I ran dino 10w-30 Rotella. Every UOA I ever did on that engine came back fine. Despite the heat and loading, and being "low" on oil (down around the "add" mark means it's two quarts down from full), it still did great and wear was low.



Correct, I am not doing this to extend the engine's life persay. I am doing this to help bring oil temps down to extend the oil's life as well as keep viscosity in check. For $250 I don't believe it will cause any downside. This oil has 2200 miles of towing from Wisconsin to Denver, Colorado grossing 24k lbs with EGTs running 1000-1400F the entire trip. The engine has lower oil pressure than I'd like, nothing I can do about it since its not a new engine nor have I had it for the previous 253k miles.
Posted By: oakaro68

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/23/19 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Originally Posted by dnewton3
As for the wear; it's pretty normal. The Cu is common if you've recently switched to Amsoil; a reaction of chelation. The Pb is probably a spike that will subside; happened to mine once. There's no Pb associated with the cooler.

I presume you are only sampling and not OCI'ing? It's far too soon to be dumping lube.

I don't really understand why you're upgrading the oil cooler. Do you have the LB7 significantly "tuned up" to where it's producing a LOT more power (heat)? Do you track the oil temps; is there evidence they are too high?



I am just sampling, not dumping. The latest oil sample went out yesterday to OAI and should have results to post back on Friday or Monday. Yes I have recently switched. Previously the truck had Cenpeco S3 15W40 in it (Cenpeco S3 Data Sheet). The reason I switched was purely because Amsoil sponsored Diesel Power Challenge 2019 and provided me with 10gal free of any engine oil. I chose 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel Marine since I've run it in the past as a child (all my dad used in his pickups/HD equipment) and the results were good. It also was all that was used in my 2005 duramax by the previous owner. At 342k when the motor was torn down (replaced due to bent connecting rod) all the bearings looked absolutely brand new and held clearance within manufacturer's spec for new. The engine in this 2002 is a little tired (some blow-by that I don't like, lower oil pressure than I'd like which is 20psi hot/40 psi cruising down the freeway hot and towing) but it hasn't shown me any signs it needs to be replaced yet. I am planning on running the remaining 7.5 gallons of Amsoil 15W40 HD Diesel Marine through this engine but will only change once this forum or the testing indicates a need.


Before this year I've always done 5k drain intervals on all my diesel pickups. Yes, I understand this was wasting money as the oil did not warrant a replacement but it was what I've done since I was a child and kept up with it regularly. My other truck gets an oil change every 8 sled hooks or 1000mi but it also makes 1300hp+ and money isn't an issue there. I eventually plan on going back to Cenpeco S3 oil once this stock of Amsoil is depleted. They were also gracious enough to provide me with 10gal of Torque Drive ATF (my favorite synthetic ATF for an Allison) that will be going in the transmission once it is built this winter.


The reason for upgrading the cooler is to manage oil temps while towing heavy. Duramax trucks are quite known to run hot oil temps when towing quite heavy (~15k+). The new 2020 oil cooler is a cheap investment as it is roughly $250 for all the required parts to install. I do have the truck tuned but only run on a 75hp tow tune. Coolant temps stay in check (under 200F) as well as trans temps (under 200F) when towing in 90F-95F ambient conditions grossing 24k lbs.


What was the bent rod from? what the truck tuned? That's pretty impressive about the bearings/clearances!
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/26/19 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by oakaro68
Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Originally Posted by dnewton3
As for the wear; it's pretty normal. The Cu is common if you've recently switched to Amsoil; a reaction of chelation. The Pb is probably a spike that will subside; happened to mine once. There's no Pb associated with the cooler.

I presume you are only sampling and not OCI'ing? It's far too soon to be dumping lube.

I don't really understand why you're upgrading the oil cooler. Do you have the LB7 significantly "tuned up" to where it's producing a LOT more power (heat)? Do you track the oil temps; is there evidence they are too high?



I am just sampling, not dumping. The latest oil sample went out yesterday to OAI and should have results to post back on Friday or Monday. Yes I have recently switched. Previously the truck had Cenpeco S3 15W40 in it (Cenpeco S3 Data Sheet). The reason I switched was purely because Amsoil sponsored Diesel Power Challenge 2019 and provided me with 10gal free of any engine oil. I chose 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel Marine since I've run it in the past as a child (all my dad used in his pickups/HD equipment) and the results were good. It also was all that was used in my 2005 duramax by the previous owner. At 342k when the motor was torn down (replaced due to bent connecting rod) all the bearings looked absolutely brand new and held clearance within manufacturer's spec for new. The engine in this 2002 is a little tired (some blow-by that I don't like, lower oil pressure than I'd like which is 20psi hot/40 psi cruising down the freeway hot and towing) but it hasn't shown me any signs it needs to be replaced yet. I am planning on running the remaining 7.5 gallons of Amsoil 15W40 HD Diesel Marine through this engine but will only change once this forum or the testing indicates a need.


Before this year I've always done 5k drain intervals on all my diesel pickups. Yes, I understand this was wasting money as the oil did not warrant a replacement but it was what I've done since I was a child and kept up with it regularly. My other truck gets an oil change every 8 sled hooks or 1000mi but it also makes 1300hp+ and money isn't an issue there. I eventually plan on going back to Cenpeco S3 oil once this stock of Amsoil is depleted. They were also gracious enough to provide me with 10gal of Torque Drive ATF (my favorite synthetic ATF for an Allison) that will be going in the transmission once it is built this winter.


The reason for upgrading the cooler is to manage oil temps while towing heavy. Duramax trucks are quite known to run hot oil temps when towing quite heavy (~15k+). The new 2020 oil cooler is a cheap investment as it is roughly $250 for all the required parts to install. I do have the truck tuned but only run on a 75hp tow tune. Coolant temps stay in check (under 200F) as well as trans temps (under 200F) when towing in 90F-95F ambient conditions grossing 24k lbs.


What was the bent rod from? what the truck tuned? That's pretty impressive about the bearings/clearances!



LB7/LLY duramax trucks (01-05) have very weak connecting rods from the factory. They tend to fail north of 650hp, especially on a drop-in upgraded turbo or compound turbos. I had an upgraded drop-in turbo with upgraded injectors and pump. The truck made ~700hp/1200tq.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/26/19 01:39 PM

Here is an updated report at 7510mi. When should I pull the next sample? 10k, 12.5k, or 15k? Same lube/filter.

Attached picture IMG_4626.jpg
Posted By: oakaro68

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/27/19 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Originally Posted by oakaro68
Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Originally Posted by dnewton3
As for the wear; it's pretty normal. The Cu is common if you've recently switched to Amsoil; a reaction of chelation. The Pb is probably a spike that will subside; happened to mine once. There's no Pb associated with the cooler.

I presume you are only sampling and not OCI'ing? It's far too soon to be dumping lube.

I don't really understand why you're upgrading the oil cooler. Do you have the LB7 significantly "tuned up" to where it's producing a LOT more power (heat)? Do you track the oil temps; is there evidence they are too high?



I am just sampling, not dumping. The latest oil sample went out yesterday to OAI and should have results to post back on Friday or Monday. Yes I have recently switched. Previously the truck had Cenpeco S3 15W40 in it (Cenpeco S3 Data Sheet). The reason I switched was purely because Amsoil sponsored Diesel Power Challenge 2019 and provided me with 10gal free of any engine oil. I chose 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel Marine since I've run it in the past as a child (all my dad used in his pickups/HD equipment) and the results were good. It also was all that was used in my 2005 duramax by the previous owner. At 342k when the motor was torn down (replaced due to bent connecting rod) all the bearings looked absolutely brand new and held clearance within manufacturer's spec for new. The engine in this 2002 is a little tired (some blow-by that I don't like, lower oil pressure than I'd like which is 20psi hot/40 psi cruising down the freeway hot and towing) but it hasn't shown me any signs it needs to be replaced yet. I am planning on running the remaining 7.5 gallons of Amsoil 15W40 HD Diesel Marine through this engine but will only change once this forum or the testing indicates a need.


Before this year I've always done 5k drain intervals on all my diesel pickups. Yes, I understand this was wasting money as the oil did not warrant a replacement but it was what I've done since I was a child and kept up with it regularly. My other truck gets an oil change every 8 sled hooks or 1000mi but it also makes 1300hp+ and money isn't an issue there. I eventually plan on going back to Cenpeco S3 oil once this stock of Amsoil is depleted. They were also gracious enough to provide me with 10gal of Torque Drive ATF (my favorite synthetic ATF for an Allison) that will be going in the transmission once it is built this winter.


The reason for upgrading the cooler is to manage oil temps while towing heavy. Duramax trucks are quite known to run hot oil temps when towing quite heavy (~15k+). The new 2020 oil cooler is a cheap investment as it is roughly $250 for all the required parts to install. I do have the truck tuned but only run on a 75hp tow tune. Coolant temps stay in check (under 200F) as well as trans temps (under 200F) when towing in 90F-95F ambient conditions grossing 24k lbs.


What was the bent rod from? what the truck tuned? That's pretty impressive about the bearings/clearances!



LB7/LLY duramax trucks (01-05) have very weak connecting rods from the factory. They tend to fail north of 650hp, especially on a drop-in upgraded turbo or compound turbos. I had an upgraded drop-in turbo with upgraded injectors and pump. The truck made ~700hp/1200tq.


Well (edit - mod) more than double stock power and bearing clearances were good as new after 342k miles. Seems like every day I have more respect for the Duramax
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/27/19 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by oakaro68
Well (edit - mod) more than double stock power and bearing clearances were good as new after 342k miles. Seems like every day I have more respect for the Duramax



I don't know if the respect is due to the engine, 5k intervals its entire life until failure, or the lube quality. What I do know is the lube is holding up extremely well (as so it seems) at 7500mi. I am thinking my next sample will be at 15,000mi, is this too long to wait?
Posted By: claluja

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/27/19 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Here is an updated report at 7510mi. When should I pull the next sample? 10k, 12.5k, or 15k? Same lube/filter.


My vote is 12 or 15K for next sample, and to keep using oil analyzers. Very good oil you have in her now.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 08/27/19 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by claluja
Originally Posted by Bdsankey
Here is an updated report at 7510mi. When should I pull the next sample? 10k, 12.5k, or 15k? Same lube/filter.


My vote is 12 or 15K for next sample, and to keep using oil analyzers. Very good oil you have in her now.




Thank you. I will either keep using OAI or switching directly to Polaris Labs. Brett from Amsoil (who I worked with for Diesel Power Challenge 2019 and continue with) has recommended to go to 15k and pull a sample. He said everything is looking good and nothing is outstanding that would dictate any issues.
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 09/13/19 02:56 PM

Well looks like I am starting to have a bearing failure. In the last 2000mi there has been a significant drop in oil pressure. This is all running Amsoil AME 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel Marine. Looks like I'm going to pull the motor out and rebuild it.

Attached picture 2019-09-13_9-45-51.jpg
Posted By: mattd

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 09/14/19 01:15 AM

Certainly looks that way to me. Post some pictures if you can interested to see the nature of the failure. The oil still seems like it go quite a bit more especially with the base number
Posted By: Bdsankey

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 09/14/19 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by mattd
Certainly looks that way to me. Post some pictures if you can interested to see the nature of the failure. The oil still seems like it go quite a bit more especially with the base number



Agreed. It took 1qt of makeup at around 9600mi. The oil seems to be wearing extremely well. I don't believe this to be an oil related failure. I do not know any history before ~253k. I am wondering if it got studded because of a head gasket failure pushing coolant into the oil and compromising a bearing. I'm hoping it is a cam bearing. The turbocharger oil supply is off of one of the cam bearings. My theory is (if it is a cam bearing) that when the oil got hot towing it just couldn't provide the necessary lubrication as that has been seen more than once on the duramax platform.


Posting pictures is no problem, I fully intend on tearing it down and repairing it/slight upgrades suited to the nature of towing/longevity (better oil cooler, better piston cooling nozzles, more oil pump flow, upgraded bearings etc).
Posted By: mattd

Re: Oil Analysis Results for 2002 LB7 Duramax - 10/19/19 06:13 PM

You had a chance to pull the engine and check things out yet? Just curious.
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