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Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13

Posted By: dustyroads

Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 05:37 PM

As near as I can tell, there's not much interest in 10W30 HDEO here at BITOG, and certainly not in the low phosphorus offerings of some of the CK-4 oils. Still, here is a sample of 10W30 that happens to be dual rated (CK-4/SN) and therefore the phosphorus is limited at a maximum of 800 PPM. I am contracted to a carrier that offers me extraordinary value in their oil change services and their shop is full of all things Delo and Donaldson (filters).

With CJ-4 oils (meeting Detroit's 93K218 spec), the oil change interval was 50k miles or 1280 hours for an OTR truck like mine. Now with CK-4 (Detroit 93K222), I can go 55k miles (no hour limit listed). With limited idle time, I could go 65k miles.

I'm an OTR guy going all over the U.S. but I pretty much haul for a small group of customers that require me to haul heavy. No overweight permits, but have a lightweight truck and trailer to haul near 50k lbs and still be under the 80k lb gross weight limit. This oci saw about 2300 miles empty, with the rest of the miles being driven at or near 80k lbs.


2016 Freightliner Cascadia
Detroit Diesel DD13
450 HP @ 1450-1625 rpm and 1650 lb/ft torque @ 975-1500 rpm
31 psi max boost at 1500-1600 rpm, down to 22 psi at 975 rpm
Turbo is not variable geometry and not water cooled (imagine that).

Delo 400 XLE 10W30
Donaldson oil, fuel and air filters

This oci:

55007 miles
1851 hours (948 hrs driving / 903 hrs idling)
Engine 182465 miles
7295 gallons of fuel burned 7.5403 mpg for the oci

No oil added. At time of drain, oil was nearly touching the full line so perhaps down a pint, basically still full. The shop says they put in 10 gallons (40 qts) and I found Detroit literature saying that approximately 6 quarts are left behind when the oil is drained.

Idling (when parked) is bumped up to 900 rpm. The truck has Detroit's Optimized Idle which starts/stops the engine to maintain cabin temp/battery charge/oil temp as needed.

Code:
Engine miles         182465           127458             67400             29617
Oil miles             55007            40186             37783             29617
Oil hours              1851             1074              1195               755
All 10W30 oils       Delo XLE          Delo XLE        Delvac Elite     Factory fill
API                  CK-4/SN           CK-4/SN            CJ-4             CJ-4

Iron                   38                33                46               31
Chromium                3                 3                10                3
Lead                    0                 0                12                0
Copper                 24                39               150              331
Tin                     0                 0                 6                6
Aluminum               19                28                61               38
Nickel                  0                 0                 0                1
Silver                  0                 0                 0                0
Titanium                0                 0                 0                0
Vanadium                0                 0                 0                0

Silicon                 5                 6                 6                5
Sodium                  9                10                 5                9
Potassium              26                34               131               96
Water                <0.05%            <0.05%            <0.05%           <0.05%
Coolant                NO                NO                NO               NO

Magnesium             715               683               895              470
Calcium              1376              1586              1576             1534
Barium                  0                 0                 0                2
Phosphorus            731               868              1054              915
Zinc                  873              1043              1417             1140
Moly                    7                17                59               57
Boron                  17                37                16               83

Visc (cSt) @ 100C     12.5              11.5              12.4             11.4
Fuel                  <1%               <1%               <1%              <1%
Soot                  0.5%             <0.1%              0.9%             0.3%

TBN                   2.9               3.3               N/A              3.6

The 20k miles missing between the second and third reports are because of a 
short oci late 2016. I had the overhead adjusted and changed the oil at the same
time but didn't sample it.

Lab is ALS and I changed the <1 to plain ol' zeroes (for the elements).

                    
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 05:53 PM

Always forget something. This engine uses a single full flow oil filter...no bypass. Also, in case anyone wonders, the emissions equipment is fully intact.
Posted By: AirgunSavant

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 06:24 PM

Very interesting- thanks!
I took a shine to Delo 15w30 HDEO for my OPE and tractors
Posted By: CT8

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 07:45 PM

All seems to be in the smile zone. grin grin grin
Posted By: Merkava_4

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 08:59 PM

Cool looking truck.

Posted By: FermeLaPorte

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 10:12 PM

I use this oil on my brother's 1995 Chevy 2500
Posted By: roadrunner1

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 10:55 PM

Excellent UOA with the only element I would consider high is Cu, with this many miles/hours it may be a normal reading.

I am a 10w-30 user, as you well know and I use it in every application I can. keep on truckin!
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/12/17 11:15 PM

Copper has been trending down in every oil analysis since the engine was new. It'll be good.
Posted By: Rob_Roy

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/13/17 12:12 AM

Very nice report. I think this is the longest OCI I have ever seen without the use of a bypass filter.

Considering the low TBN and that the oil is starting to thicken, I think you got everything out of it.

Who did the analysis and what was their recommendation?
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/13/17 01:48 AM

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Excellent UOA with the only element I would consider high is Cu, with this many miles/hours it may be a normal reading.

I am a 10w-30 user, as you well know and I use it in every application I can. keep on truckin!


Yup, I know you use 10W30 without apologies. thumbsup Everything is taking forever to get rinsed out. Copper, aluminum and potassium, and even moly from early oci's are still hanging in there due to so much oil being left in the engine at each drain.
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/13/17 01:52 AM

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Very interesting- thanks!
I took a shine to Delo 15w30 HDEO for my OPE and tractors


You're welcome! I thought maybe some people would be interested in this oil for their gasoline engines (big and small).
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/13/17 02:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
Very nice report. I think this is the longest OCI I have ever seen without the use of a bypass filter.

Considering the low TBN and that the oil is starting to thicken, I think you got everything out of it.

Who did the analysis and what was their recommendation?



I agree that I got a lot out of this oil and it wasn't easy (for me) to go that far.
I watched the idle time piling up and the total fuel burned along the way, so I was a little bit concerned.
The only thing that gave me some comfort was the fact that the oil wasn't going down on the dipstick,
as I took that as a good sign.

Lab was ALS for all. Three NAPA kits and a Delvac kit were used.
The Delvac kit doesn't provide TBN for whatever reason.

Code:
From most recent analysis: "All wear rates normal. 
Abrasives and other contaminant levels are acceptable. 
Action: as oil and filters already changed, resample next recommended service interval 
to further monitor."


Code:
From the factory fill sample: "Engine wear levels appear satisfactory 
for first sample. The higher than normal potassium and aluminum levels 
in isolation suggests leaching of brazing flux compound 
from the aftercooler, and does not indicate a wear related problem. 
The higher than normal copper level is due to leaching of copper oxide 
from the oil cooler, and does not indicate a related wear problem. 
Abrasive and other contaminant levels are acceptable. 
Viscosity within specified range. 
Action: as oil and filters already changed, resample next service interval 
to monitor and establish wear trend."
Posted By: Dak27

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/15/17 03:00 AM

Thanks for posting the UOA, Dusty. It will be a couple more months before I switch from the 15w40 Delo SDE over to the 10W30 XLE for the Winter.

I've been meaning to post a UOA for the 15W40 SDE, but I've been really busy running, which is always a good thing.

I'm new to interpreting the numbers, but from what I can see, your motor really likes the 10W30 XLE. It looks very much up to the task.

Be safe, and best regards!
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 09/17/17 06:35 PM

You're welcome Dak. I know that you are limited to shorter intervals with the Series 60 engine (at least while you have warranty), but I know that the new CK-4 oils will work great for you, too. They are improved in preventing aeration and shearing, and that benefits all of us.

The important thing in my mind is that the new oil appears to be living up to the hype, at least in regards to the extended oci abilities. I'm certainly impressed with the TBN retention and the apparent oxidation resistance. The most recent oci was not only a considerable number of miles, but many hours, too.

I'm going to enjoy keeping the truck out of the shop for an extra month or two between oil changes.

Take care and safe truckin'!
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/07/18 12:27 AM

Here is my latest UOA. This OCI was early August 2017 to early January '18. I'm over the fear of running these long intervals. I'm really enjoying the fact that I just grease the tractor myself and only going in for oil changes about every 5 months.

This was more of the same in regards to the operating conditions. I'm loaded the vast majority of the time, taking in raw materials and reloading with finished products or often moving raw materials or partially finished goods between factories. I'm usually loaded close to the 80k pound limit.

This oci:
55185 miles
1427 total hours (978 hrs driving / 449 hrs idling)
7172 gallons of fuel burned for an average 7.694 mpg (I thought I would average over 8 mpg, but the cold winter winds and blazing trails through the snow really put a load on the engine.)

No oil was added, it remained solidly at the full mark on the dipstick throughout the entire interval. It takes 10 gallons at each oil change, but the total capacity is 46.5 quarts (leaving 6.5 quarts behind at each drain). If you look at my original factory fill UOA thread, I said that it takes 38 quarts for an oil change. That's what the guys said at my very first oil change, but maybe their bulk oil dispenser nozzle was inaccurate. Every oil change since, has taken a full 10 gallons to fill and that matches the info in Detroit literature.

I'm very happy with the engine. It's quite impressive all around.

Code:
Engine miles     237650     182465      127458      67400     29617
Oil miles         55185      55007       40186      37783     29617
Oil hours          1427       1851        1074       1195       755
All 10W-30 oils   Delo XLE   D-XLE       D-XLE    Delvac Elite  Factory fill
API               CK-4/SN   CK-4/SN     CK-4/SN      CJ-4       CJ-4


Iron               34         38          33          46         31
Chromium            2          3           3          10          3
Lead                0          0           0          12          0
Copper             12         24          39         150        321
Tin                 0          0           0           6          6
Aluminum           15         19          28          61         38
Nickel              0          0           0           0          1
Silver              0          0           0           0          0
Titanium            0          0           0           0          0
Vanadium            0          0           0           0          0

Silicon             5          5           6           6          5
Sodium              3          9          10           5          9
Potassium          26         26          34         131         96
Water            <0.05%     <0.05%      <0.05%     <0.05%       <0.05%
Coolant            NO         NO          NO          NO         NO

Magnesium         736        715         683         895        470
Calcium          1280       1376        1586        1576       1534
Barium              0          0           0           0          2
Phosphorus        720        731         868        1054        915
Zinc              830        873        1043        1417       1140
Moly                3          7          17          59         57
Boron              17         17          37          16         83

Visc (cSt)@100c  11.8       12.5        11.5        12.4       11.4
Fuel              <1%        <1%         <1%         <1%        <1%          
Soot             0.3%        0.5%        0.1%        0.9%       0.3%

TBN               3.0         2.9         3.3        N/A        3.6




Last summer, I learned that this engine has "Sputter" or "Sputtered" bearings for the mains and rods. I somehow stumbled upon a Detroit PDF that takes a Detroit tech through the process of diagnosing the cause of spun bearings. Among other things, it mentions the "Sputter" bearings.

Apparently, these bearings are much better suited to handling the intense pressure of making huge torque at crazy low rpm (they're less susceptible to wear and fatigue). The downside of these bearings, is that they don't allow particles to embed in the hardened aluminum/tin overlay the way a copper/lead//tin (softer) bearing does. If something gets into the sputtered bearings (that may otherwise embed into the traditional soft bearing), it will most likely cause a spun bearing. This is all new stuff to me, and maybe some will want to read up and learn more. Just throwing it out there for those who want to learn.
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/07/18 09:09 PM

Yet more great results!
That is outstanding data for the exposure duration. Wear rates are staying nice and low.
All your contamination is low; very low. Your Si in particular is very impressive; good air filtration.
I honestly think that you could start pushing out, cautiously, at bit at a time, towards 75k miles, maybe more?

I believe you already mentioned, but what filtration is used? FF and BP?



I'll have to read up on sputter bearings; interesting.
Posted By: PiperOne

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/08/18 02:53 AM

I am now on CK-4 (Delo 5w40) and these results make me feel warm and fuzzy. Thanks for sharing.
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/08/18 05:23 AM

Originally Posted By: PiperOne
I am now on CK-4 (Delo 5w40) and these results make me feel warm and fuzzy. Thanks for sharing.


thumbsup

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Yet more great results!
That is outstanding data for the exposure duration. Wear rates are staying nice and low.
All your contamination is low; very low. Your Si in particular is very impressive; good air filtration.
I honestly think that you could start pushing out, cautiously, at bit at a time, towards 75k miles, maybe more?

I believe you already mentioned, but what filtration is used? FF and BP?



I'll have to read up on sputter bearings; interesting.


Hi Dave. No bypass filter on the Detroit DD engines; they only use a cartridge style full flow filter. In the past, I posted some UOA for my Volvo's and those did use a spin-on bypass filter in conjunction with two full flows.

I agree with you on the extended intervals and just might do so. Only, I would probably stop at 65k miles. My injector warranty recently expired, but I still have warranty on the "major components" until 500k, so I would be hesitant to go more than 65k. Detroit says with 7+ mpg, minimal city driving and minimal idling; 65k miles is fine. I was using their 55k mile recommendation with so much idle time, but I think I will go more. I'm well over 7 mpg despite the high idle time.

The original air filter was changed during the 127k oil change. The second filter is still in there. Everything is buttoned up tight and it shows in the UOA. For the record, it's a Donaldson Power Core filter (the original and replacement).

If you Google "Detroit DD13 spun bearings"; you should get the Detroit PDF right up at the top of the results. I don't remember the PDF title, but it's obvious regarding Detroit bearing failures. It has some good info and pictures of ruined bearings that may be fun for gear-heads to look at. grin
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/08/18 11:31 AM

That is fantastic wear for an OCI of that duration, with no BP element. Simply outstanding, and hard to believe because it's so good.
That engine must be very clean running to have such a low soot level after such a long run, and no make up oil to dilute results. Soot is often limited at 3%-5% depending upon OEM. You're at 1/10th that value! Hard to express how impressive that is! And no make-up oil to dilute the results too.

Essentially you have practically no intrusion of silica, and a very low soot load. The two major contributors to wear are super low, so it's no wonder your wear rates are so steady and low, even after 55k miles! Who needs BP when you're running that clean?

65k miles is totally doable. 75k is likely easily attained. More is possible. (All verified with UOAs obviously).
I do understand your hesitation to continue to stretch it out; everyone has a self-imposed limit where they get a bit queasy.
I assume you have a way to take a live-sample? I would suggest that you run to 50k miles, sample and decide.
Then every 10k miles after that, take another sample.

Yes - taking lots of UOAs can be a tad tedious (although a live-sample port makes it really easy actually). And there's cost involved too. But a UOA is far cheaper than 10 gallons of lube!


I admire your dedication and ability to let the data drive your decisions. Stick with it!
At the rate of wear you're seeing, that might be the last engine you buy.
Posted By: PiperOne

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/08/18 08:58 PM

Love those PowerCore air filters. Use them on my Duramax's.
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/09/18 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: PiperOne
Love those PowerCore air filters. Use them on my Duramax's.


Good deal! I didn't know how many applications they were made for, but I guess the diesel pickups would be an obvious one.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
That is fantastic wear for an OCI of that duration, with no BP element. Simply outstanding, and hard to believe because it's so good.
That engine must be very clean running to have such a low soot level after such a long run, and no make up oil to dilute results. Soot is often limited at 3%-5% depending upon OEM. You're at 1/10th that value! Hard to express how impressive that is! And no make-up oil to dilute the results too.

Essentially you have practically no intrusion of silica, and a very low soot load. The two major contributors to wear are super low, so it's no wonder your wear rates are so steady and low, even after 55k miles! Who needs BP when you're running that clean?

65k miles is totally doable. 75k is likely easily attained. More is possible. (All verified with UOAs obviously).
I do understand your hesitation to continue to stretch it out; everyone has a self-imposed limit where they get a bit queasy.
I assume you have a way to take a live-sample? I would suggest that you run to 50k miles, sample and decide.
Then every 10k miles after that, take another sample.

Yes - taking lots of UOAs can be a tad tedious (although a live-sample port makes it really easy actually). And there's cost involved too. But a UOA is far cheaper than 10 gallons of lube!


I admire your dedication and ability to let the data drive your decisions. Stick with it!
At the rate of wear you're seeing, that might be the last engine you buy.


Oh goodness...thanks but I have only worked within Detroit's guidelines. I am using the data, but so far, only to give me the confidence to go the approved distance. Like I said in my update, I'm over the fear of such long OCIs. I thought they were geared more towards the big fleets who stretch everything to the limit, but my results show that the oil isn't being challenged yet. I will still limit my truck to 65k mile intervals (while I have warranty) because that is the longest approved for the DD13. The larger DD15 is approved for 75k mile OCI with good fuel economy.

As far as sampling throughout an OCI, I'm fine with going straight to whatever mileage I end up at without extra sampling (again 65k at most). So far, 55k has been easy and as long as the oil remains where it needs to be on the dipstick and I can't find any glaring issues, I will just run until it's time to drain. I hope that doesn't sound bad. I'm very much "in tune" with my truck so I think it'll be fine.

To answer your question, the only way to live sample is by pulling a sample through the dipstick tube. No drain valve on the pan and I don't think that there's a port to connect to. My Cat engines had ports but I don't believe that this engine does. I honestly haven't searched for one so not sure.

As far as low wear rates, all of my HD diesels have had <1 ppm/1000 miles. So while this engine is showing very low iron numbers, it's not amazing in comparison to my past engines. I guess it may be better than I thought, because this engine is being choked by the restrictive exhaust and using EGR. Guys with pickups and diesel cars see enormous improvements after deleting EGR and everything down stream.

I am most amazed by the TBN retention and the viscosity staying so well in range. Healthy, efficient engine, yes; but wow. I personally have never seen such performance in any of my big diesels over the last twenty years. I believe that the new CK-4 oils have nailed the touted improvements. Detroit (and others) extended their OCIs considerably with the new category and I'm showing some results in my reports.
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 03/10/18 01:14 AM

Under warranty certainly makes sense to follow the protocol. 65k miles it is. Given the recent UOAs, I'd say just keep on plugging away and not worry about samples. After warranty, then maybe start to stretch them out.

Excellent wear for sure.
Posted By: Sealbilly

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/26/18 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Very interesting- thanks!
I took a shine to Delo 15w30 HDEO for my OPE and tractors


You're welcome! I thought maybe some people would be interested in this oil for their gasoline engines (big and small).


Your correct. It's what I came here for. I have it in my 1500 Silverado now. I usually use T5 Rotella but hear the TBN has been low on it and the delo was on clearance for 19 bucks for a 2.5 gallon jug. Thinking it will be good for truck jeep lawn mower and 4 stroke outboard.
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/27/18 01:17 AM

Awesome numbers especially on a "thin" oil in such a heavily loaded application. I'm almost surprised irv hasn't weighed in to point out the fact that a Mobil product (the Delvac Elite) has delivered the highest iron number. 34ppm for 55k in a semi is just unimagineably low... congrats on your results and intestinal fortitude!
Posted By: Patrick0525

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/10/18 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Here is my latest UOA. This OCI was early August 2017 to early January '18. I'm over the fear of running these long intervals. I'm really enjoying the fact that I just grease the tractor myself and only going in for oil changes about every 5 months.

This was more of the same in regards to the operating conditions. I'm loaded the vast majority of the time, taking in raw materials and reloading with finished products or often moving raw materials or partially finished goods between factories. I'm usually loaded close to the 80k pound limit.

This oci:
55185 miles
1427 total hours (978 hrs driving / 449 hrs idling)
7172 gallons of fuel burned for an average 7.694 mpg (I thought I would average over 8 mpg, but the cold winter winds and blazing trails through the snow really put a load on the engine.)

No oil was added, it remained solidly at the full mark on the dipstick throughout the entire interval. It takes 10 gallons at each oil change, but the total capacity is 46.5 quarts (leaving 6.5 quarts behind at each drain). If you look at my original factory fill UOA thread, I said that it takes 38 quarts for an oil change. That's what the guys said at my very first oil change, but maybe their bulk oil dispenser nozzle was inaccurate. Every oil change since, has taken a full 10 gallons to fill and that matches the info in Detroit literature.

I'm very happy with the engine. It's quite impressive all around.

Code:
Engine miles     237650     182465      127458      67400     29617
Oil miles         55185      55007       40186      37783     29617
Oil hours          1427       1851        1074       1195       755
All 10W-30 oils   Delo XLE   D-XLE       D-XLE    Delvac Elite  Factory fill
API               CK-4/SN   CK-4/SN     CK-4/SN      CJ-4       CJ-4


Iron               34         38          33          46         31
Chromium            2          3           3          10          3
Lead                0          0           0          12          0
Copper             12         24          39         150        321
Tin                 0          0           0           6          6
Aluminum           15         19          28          61         38
Nickel              0          0           0           0          1
Silver              0          0           0           0          0
Titanium            0          0           0           0          0
Vanadium            0          0           0           0          0

Silicon             5          5           6           6          5
Sodium              3          9          10           5          9
Potassium          26         26          34         131         96
Water            <0.05%     <0.05%      <0.05%     <0.05%       <0.05%
Coolant            NO         NO          NO          NO         NO

Magnesium         736        715         683         895        470
Calcium          1280       1376        1586        1576       1534
Barium              0          0           0           0          2
Phosphorus        720        731         868        1054        915
Zinc              830        873        1043        1417       1140
Moly                3          7          17          59         57
Boron              17         17          37          16         83

Visc (cSt)@100c  11.8       12.5        11.5        12.4       11.4
Fuel              <1%        <1%         <1%         <1%        <1%          
Soot             0.3%        0.5%        0.1%        0.9%       0.3%

TBN               3.0         2.9         3.3        N/A        3.6




Last summer, I learned that this engine has "Sputter" or "Sputtered" bearings for the mains and rods. I somehow stumbled upon a Detroit PDF that takes a Detroit tech through the process of diagnosing the cause of spun bearings. Among other things, it mentions the "Sputter" bearings.

Apparently, these bearings are much better suited to handling the intense pressure of making huge torque at crazy low rpm (they're less susceptible to wear and fatigue). The downside of these bearings, is that they don't allow particles to embed in the hardened aluminum/tin overlay the way a copper/lead//tin (softer) bearing does. If something gets into the sputtered bearings (that may otherwise embed into the traditional soft bearing), it will most likely cause a spun bearing. This is all new stuff to me, and maybe some will want to read up and learn more. Just throwing it out there for those who want to learn.




Attached is the older CJ-4 Delo XLE 10W-30 sales sheet. Look at the Fe ppm level graph and compare it to @dustyroads latest UOA.


Older CJ-4 higher Zn/P formula data sheet vs newer CK-4 lower Zn/P formula actual UOA.
Interesting... I am CK-4 convinced.
Yes, there are engine differences: Volvo 13L vs Detroit DD13, but for the auto or OPE end-user it is good enough!

Delo XLE 10W-30 sales sheet -Fe
Posted By: stoan

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/11/18 04:21 AM

Originally Posted By: dustyroads
As near as I can tell, there's not much interest in 10W30 HDEO here at BITOG, and certainly not in the low phosphorus offerings of some of the CK-4 oils. Still, here is a sample of 10W30 that happens to be dual rated (CK-4/SN) and therefore the phosphorus is limited at a maximum of 800 PPM. I am contracted to a carrier that offers me extraordinary value in their oil change services and their shop is full of all things Delo and Donaldson (filters).

With CJ-4 oils (meeting Detroit's 93K218 spec), the oil change interval was 50k miles or 1280 hours for an OTR truck like mine. Now with CK-4 (Detroit 93K222), I can go 55k miles (no hour limit listed). With limited idle time, I could go 65k miles.

I'm an OTR guy going all over the U.S. but I pretty much haul for a small group of customers that require me to haul heavy. No overweight permits, but have a lightweight truck and trailer to haul near 50k lbs and still be under the 80k lb gross weight limit. This oci saw about 2300 miles empty, with the rest of the miles being driven at or near 80k lbs.


2016 Freightliner Cascadia
Detroit Diesel DD13
450 HP @ 1450-1625 rpm and 1650 lb/ft torque @ 975-1500 rpm
31 psi max boost at 1500-1600 rpm, down to 22 psi at 975 rpm
Turbo is not variable geometry and not water cooled (imagine that).

Delo 400 XLE 10W30
Donaldson oil, fuel and air filters

This oci:

55007 miles
1851 hours (948 hrs driving / 903 hrs idling)
Engine 182465 miles
7295 gallons of fuel burned 7.5403 mpg for the oci

No oil added. At time of drain, oil was nearly touching the full line so perhaps down a pint, basically still full. The shop says they put in 10 gallons (40 qts) and I found Detroit literature saying that approximately 6 quarts are left behind when the oil is drained.

Idling (when parked) is bumped up to 900 rpm. The truck has Detroit's Optimized Idle which starts/stops the engine to maintain cabin temp/battery charge/oil temp as needed.

Code:
Engine miles         182465           127458             67400             29617
Oil miles             55007            40186             37783             29617
Oil hours              1851             1074              1195               755
All 10W30 oils       Delo XLE          Delo XLE        Delvac Elite     Factory fill
API                  CK-4/SN           CK-4/SN            CJ-4             CJ-4

Iron                   38                33                46               31
Chromium                3                 3                10                3
Lead                    0                 0                12                0
Copper                 24                39               150              331
Tin                     0                 0                 6                6
Aluminum               19                28                61               38
Nickel                  0                 0                 0                1
Silver                  0                 0                 0                0
Titanium                0                 0                 0                0
Vanadium                0                 0                 0                0

Silicon                 5                 6                 6                5
Sodium                  9                10                 5                9
Potassium              26                34               131               96
Water                <0.05%            <0.05%            <0.05%           <0.05%
Coolant                NO                NO                NO               NO

Magnesium             715               683               895              470
Calcium              1376              1586              1576             1534
Barium                  0                 0                 0                2
Phosphorus            731               868              1054              915
Zinc                  873              1043              1417             1140
Moly                    7                17                59               57
Boron                  17                37                16               83

Visc (cSt) @ 100C     12.5              11.5              12.4             11.4
Fuel                  <1%               <1%               <1%              <1%
Soot                  0.5%             <0.1%              0.9%             0.3%

TBN                   2.9               3.3               N/A              3.6

The 20k miles missing between the second and third reports are because of a 
short oci late 2016. I had the overhead adjusted and changed the oil at the same
time but didn't sample it.

Lab is ALS and I changed the <1 to plain ol' zeroes (for the elements).

                    











Nice looking numbers from that engine. What is your normal cruise rpm? When climbing a hill do you let it pull at low rpm, or downshift early and pull with higher rpm?
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/11/18 04:40 AM

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Awesome numbers especially on a "thin" oil in such a heavily loaded application. I'm almost surprised irv hasn't weighed in to point out the fact that a Mobil product (the Delvac Elite) has delivered the highest iron number. 34ppm for 55k in a semi is just unimagineably low... congrats on your results and intestinal fortitude!


Is the the last place you want to be in this line up number two (behind the FF break in oil) on an engine that strands so much oil during an oil change?… every oil used did a good job … and that’s a bunch of big iron bores in that coal mill …
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/12/18 12:47 AM

No clue what you just said. I put this oil in my Odyssey which certainly doesn't have the sump capacity of the semi, so I'll be able to see for myself.
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/13/18 02:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Sealbilly
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Very interesting- thanks!
I took a shine to Delo 15w30 HDEO for my OPE and tractors


You're welcome! I thought maybe some people would be interested in this oil for their gasoline engines (big and small).


Your correct. It's what I came here for. I have it in my 1500 Silverado now. I usually use T5 Rotella but hear the TBN has been low on it and the delo was on clearance for 19 bucks for a 2.5 gallon jug. Thinking it will be good for truck jeep lawn mower and 4 stroke outboard.


Glad you found a great deal on a great oil!
Originally Posted By: Patrick0525
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Here is my latest UOA. This OCI was early August 2017 to early January '18. I'm over the fear of running these long intervals. I'm really enjoying the fact that I just grease the tractor myself and only going in for oil changes about every 5 months.

This was more of the same in regards to the operating conditions. I'm loaded the vast majority of the time, taking in raw materials and reloading with finished products or often moving raw materials or partially finished goods between factories. I'm usually loaded close to the 80k pound limit.

This oci:
55185 miles
1427 total hours (978 hrs driving / 449 hrs idling)
7172 gallons of fuel burned for an average 7.694 mpg (I thought I would average over 8 mpg, but the cold winter winds and blazing trails through the snow really put a load on the engine.)

No oil was added, it remained solidly at the full mark on the dipstick throughout the entire interval. It takes 10 gallons at each oil change, but the total capacity is 46.5 quarts (leaving 6.5 quarts behind at each drain). If you look at my original factory fill UOA thread, I said that it takes 38 quarts for an oil change. That's what the guys said at my very first oil change, but maybe their bulk oil dispenser nozzle was inaccurate. Every oil change since, has taken a full 10 gallons to fill and that matches the info in Detroit literature.

I'm very happy with the engine. It's quite impressive all around.

Code:
Engine miles     237650     182465      127458      67400     29617
Oil miles         55185      55007       40186      37783     29617
Oil hours          1427       1851        1074       1195       755
All 10W-30 oils   Delo XLE   D-XLE       D-XLE    Delvac Elite  Factory fill
API               CK-4/SN   CK-4/SN     CK-4/SN      CJ-4       CJ-4


Iron               34         38          33          46         31
Chromium            2          3           3          10          3
Lead                0          0           0          12          0
Copper             12         24          39         150        321
Tin                 0          0           0           6          6
Aluminum           15         19          28          61         38
Nickel              0          0           0           0          1
Silver              0          0           0           0          0
Titanium            0          0           0           0          0
Vanadium            0          0           0           0          0

Silicon             5          5           6           6          5
Sodium              3          9          10           5          9
Potassium          26         26          34         131         96
Water            <0.05%     <0.05%      <0.05%     <0.05%       <0.05%
Coolant            NO         NO          NO          NO         NO

Magnesium         736        715         683         895        470
Calcium          1280       1376        1586        1576       1534
Barium              0          0           0           0          2
Phosphorus        720        731         868        1054        915
Zinc              830        873        1043        1417       1140
Moly                3          7          17          59         57
Boron              17         17          37          16         83

Visc (cSt)@100c  11.8       12.5        11.5        12.4       11.4
Fuel              <1%        <1%         <1%         <1%        <1%          
Soot             0.3%        0.5%        0.1%        0.9%       0.3%

TBN               3.0         2.9         3.3        N/A        3.6




Last summer, I learned that this engine has "Sputter" or "Sputtered" bearings for the mains and rods. I somehow stumbled upon a Detroit PDF that takes a Detroit tech through the process of diagnosing the cause of spun bearings. Among other things, it mentions the "Sputter" bearings.

Apparently, these bearings are much better suited to handling the intense pressure of making huge torque at crazy low rpm (they're less susceptible to wear and fatigue). The downside of these bearings, is that they don't allow particles to embed in the hardened aluminum/tin overlay the way a copper/lead//tin (softer) bearing does. If something gets into the sputtered bearings (that may otherwise embed into the traditional soft bearing), it will most likely cause a spun bearing. This is all new stuff to me, and maybe some will want to read up and learn more. Just throwing it out there for those who want to learn.




Attached is the older CJ-4 Delo XLE 10W-30 sales sheet. Look at the Fe ppm level graph and compare it to @dustyroads latest UOA.


Older CJ-4 higher Zn/P formula data sheet vs newer CK-4 lower Zn/P formula actual UOA.
Interesting... I am CK-4 convinced.
Yes, there are engine differences: Volvo 13L vs Detroit DD13, but for the auto or OPE end-user it is good enough!

Delo XLE 10W-30 sales sheet -Fe


The Volvo engines show very low wear metals and have three spin on filters (one is a bypass filter). I don't believe that the CJ-4 version of XLE had nearly the TBN of the CK-4, but Chevron just ran the oil until the wear metals took off; not being concerned with the TBN.
Originally Posted By: stoan
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
As near as I can tell, there's not much interest in 10W30 HDEO here at BITOG, and certainly not in the low phosphorus offerings of some of the CK-4 oils. Still, here is a sample of 10W30 that happens to be dual rated (CK-4/SN) and therefore the phosphorus is limited at a maximum of 800 PPM. I am contracted to a carrier that offers me extraordinary value in their oil change services and their shop is full of all things Delo and Donaldson (filters).

With CJ-4 oils (meeting Detroit's 93K218 spec), the oil change interval was 50k miles or 1280 hours for an OTR truck like mine. Now with CK-4 (Detroit 93K222), I can go 55k miles (no hour limit listed). With limited idle time, I could go 65k miles.

I'm an OTR guy going all over the U.S. but I pretty much haul for a small group of customers that require me to haul heavy. No overweight permits, but have a lightweight truck and trailer to haul near 50k lbs and still be under the 80k lb gross weight limit. This oci saw about 2300 miles empty, with the rest of the miles being driven at or near 80k lbs.


2016 Freightliner Cascadia
Detroit Diesel DD13
450 HP @ 1450-1625 rpm and 1650 lb/ft torque @ 975-1500 rpm
31 psi max boost at 1500-1600 rpm, down to 22 psi at 975 rpm
Turbo is not variable geometry and not water cooled (imagine that).

Delo 400 XLE 10W30
Donaldson oil, fuel and air filters

This oci:

55007 miles
1851 hours (948 hrs driving / 903 hrs idling)
Engine 182465 miles
7295 gallons of fuel burned 7.5403 mpg for the oci

No oil added. At time of drain, oil was nearly touching the full line so perhaps down a pint, basically still full. The shop says they put in 10 gallons (40 qts) and I found Detroit literature saying that approximately 6 quarts are left behind when the oil is drained.

Idling (when parked) is bumped up to 900 rpm. The truck has Detroit's Optimized Idle which starts/stops the engine to maintain cabin temp/battery charge/oil temp as needed.

Code:
Engine miles         182465           127458             67400             29617
Oil miles             55007            40186             37783             29617
Oil hours              1851             1074              1195               755
All 10W30 oils       Delo XLE          Delo XLE        Delvac Elite     Factory fill
API                  CK-4/SN           CK-4/SN            CJ-4             CJ-4

Iron                   38                33                46               31
Chromium                3                 3                10                3
Lead                    0                 0                12                0
Copper                 24                39               150              331
Tin                     0                 0                 6                6
Aluminum               19                28                61               38
Nickel                  0                 0                 0                1
Silver                  0                 0                 0                0
Titanium                0                 0                 0                0
Vanadium                0                 0                 0                0

Silicon                 5                 6                 6                5
Sodium                  9                10                 5                9
Potassium              26                34               131               96
Water                <0.05%            <0.05%            <0.05%           <0.05%
Coolant                NO                NO                NO               NO

Magnesium             715               683               895              470
Calcium              1376              1586              1576             1534
Barium                  0                 0                 0                2
Phosphorus            731               868              1054              915
Zinc                  873              1043              1417             1140
Moly                    7                17                59               57
Boron                  17                37                16               83

Visc (cSt) @ 100C     12.5              11.5              12.4             11.4
Fuel                  <1%               <1%               <1%              <1%
Soot                  0.5%             <0.1%              0.9%             0.3%

TBN                   2.9               3.3               N/A              3.6

The 20k miles missing between the second and third reports are because of a 
short oci late 2016. I had the overhead adjusted and changed the oil at the same
time but didn't sample it.

Lab is ALS and I changed the <1 to plain ol' zeroes (for the elements).

                    











Nice looking numbers from that engine. What is your normal cruise rpm? When climbing a hill do you let it pull at low rpm, or downshift early and pull with higher rpm?


stoan, the typical cruising RPM is 1100-1300; mostly about 1200 rpm. When pulling hills, I prefer to let it pull down to 975 rpm before down-shifting (if needed at all). However, when climbing hills in traffic (like the PA turnpike), I try to keep my speed up to maintain good traffic flow.

If I drop a gear at 60 mph, I can use 1500 rpm to maintain that speed (or more) up most of the hills. 1450-1550 rpm is where it makes the very best combination of HP/Torque.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Awesome numbers especially on a "thin" oil in such a heavily loaded application. I'm almost surprised irv hasn't weighed in to point out the fact that a Mobil product (the Delvac Elite) has delivered the highest iron number. 34ppm for 55k in a semi is just unimagineably low... congrats on your results and intestinal fortitude!


Is the the last place you want to be in this line up number two (behind the FF break in oil) on an engine that strands so much oil during an oil change?… every oil used did a good job … and that’s a bunch of big iron bores in that coal mill …



I'm not sure what happened with the run of Delvac, but I wasn't concerned about it. I used that same oil for a few years in other trucks and it was stellar. With this truck, it was just a fluke I think. I haven't an explanation. shrug
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
No clue what you just said. I put this oil in my Odyssey which certainly doesn't have the sump capacity of the semi, so I'll be able to see for myself.


Subie, I hope it works well for you. It's first and foremost a diesel engine oil, but being dual rated, it has to pass the same tests as the PCMOs and should work great in your van. It certainly is a fantastic oil in my Detroit.
Posted By: Sam_Julier

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/13/18 03:25 PM

Thanks for posting Dusty. The new CK-4/SN oils are remarkable. I've learned a lot from your posts and thank you for your contributions.

Sam
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/14/18 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
Thanks for posting Dusty. The new CK-4/SN oils are remarkable. I've learned a lot from your posts and thank you for your contributions.

Sam


thumbsup You're welcome! I'm very happy with the results I'm getting. I followed the development of CK-4 and was anxious to use it as soon as it was available. It's working as advertised for sure and I'm glad to see some other BITOG members taking an interest in it...even if Ford has put a blemish on it. smirk
Posted By: Patrick0525

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/14/18 12:17 AM

@dustyroads, why does Volvo use three + one by pass oil filter? Doesn’t your Detroit use one oil filter? Thanks.
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 06/14/18 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Patrick0525
@dustyroads, why does Volvo use three + one by pass oil filter? Doesn’t your Detroit use one oil filter? Thanks.


Well I can't say why Volvo uses three oil filters (one of which was a bypass) but they do (or at least, they did). It's possible that their newer engines have something different, I don't know. My Volvos had very low wear metals just like the ones that Chevron used in testing (noting your previous post). Their system works well, but it's more to dispose of when changing oil.

Yes, to be clear, Detroit uses just one cartridge style oil filter. When I was doing research a few years ago, I saw internet posts where people thought that there was a bypass on the Detroit DD platform engines. As it turned out, it was a coolant filter right beside the oil filter. Detroit stopped using the coolant filter a few years ago so there's no reason to be confused about it anymore. smile

I'm somewhat surprised by the low soot in my samples, but the injection pressure is around 35k psi. That allows super atomization and a good rate of burn completion; that's the extent of my knowledge on the subject. I guess piston design and air intake are probably a large part of the good burn, too.
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 07/19/18 05:17 AM

One more UOA on Delo XLE. I told dnewton3 that I would try for 65k miles on this oci, but I didn't make it. My operation changed drastically at 47k into this oci; going from OTR with a high percentage of steady state cruising, to short haul in Pennsylvania. A few trips into the surrounding states as well, but 90% in Pennsylvania.

Primarily, the last 11k miles were driving the two lane roads of PA and some surrounding states, loaded close to the legal weight limit of 80k lbs. My truck doesn't mind the hills on the interstate (no more than 7% grades), but the 8-13% grades (on two lane roads) are a whole different story. It's tough going; crawling up a steep grade using fuel at the rate of 20 gallons per hour, then Jake Braking down the other side.

In conclusion, most of the last 11k miles of this OCI were spent at 1400-1700 rpm (rather than the 1100-1300 rpm cruising in OTR use) with a ridiculous amount of gear shifts. Very little steady state RPM combined with very high fuel consumption. It's still a nice report.

This OCI: January 5 to June 21 2018

Code:
Engine miles 295614
Oil miles 57964
Oil hours 1596 (1102 driving / 494 idling)
Fuel burned: 7873 US gallons = 7.3623 mpg
Delo XLE 10W30 CK-4/SN

No oil added and it was still completely full.

Lab was Milton Cat (all previous were ALS, but had to make the switch at some point)

Listing everything as I read them from left to right across two rows of info.

Copper         12
Iron           43
Chromium        2
Aluminum       19
Lead            0
Tin             0

Silicon         6
Sodium          5
Potassium      29

Boron          18
Moly            2

Nickel          0
Silver          0

Titanium        0
Calcium      1436
Magnesium     828
Zinc          848
Phosphorus    711
Barium          0

Soot           58 (% of limit maybe?)
Oxidation      25
Nitration      12
Sulfation      30

Water          negative
Antifreeze     negative
Fuel           negative

PFC (percent fuel content) 0.38

Viscosity @ 100°C  12.4

TAN           6.09
TBN           1.9

PQI (particle quantifying index)  6








Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 07/19/18 03:09 PM

I just got an email from the Cat lab in regards to the soot number. They use UFM which is Unsubtracted FT-IR Method. It allows them to use FT-IR without a reference oil.

The UFM for my latest results was 58 and that translates into 0.58% soot. That's fantastic for the amount of fuel that the engine burned. The amount of fuel used (and the way it was being used) is the reason I drained when I did. As it turns out, I could have gone much longer.

Just a reminder: this engine is stock. No bypass filtration, but a single full flow (cartridge) filter. The entire emissions system is intact and will remain that way.
Posted By: dnewton3

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 07/19/18 04:50 PM

Great report!
Significant increase in engine loading for the last 19% of the OCI; going into a "severe" sense of near-max loading and varied rpm.

And yet, the average Fe ppm is LESS THAN 1ppm per 1k MILES! Incredible. Probably a lot of WOT uphill runs, and yet the engine really so no adverse effects.

Note the big flip-flop in TBN/TAN, and yet no adverse affects as well. We've seen this many times before, and I've commented then as I will now. TBN/TAN crossover is NOT IN ANY MANNER A REASON TO OCI. It is a predictor that something might change; some shift may be forthcoming. It is a reason to pay closer attention. But is not in any manner a reason to drop the drain plug.

Heavy engine loading and soot very tolerable; clean running engine overall.

All should take note; this is yet another example that "severe" use does not really equate to "severe" wear rates. If your air filtration is good, your fuel injectors don't leak, and your not ingesting coolant, then it is unlikely that "severe" use really won't alter wear rates much, if at all.

Drive on, Dusty! 65k miles is easily in reach, and you've proven it!
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/29/19 05:09 PM

Just adding one more to the"file". This OCI was October '18 to March '19. I had to wait for time to post, then I forgot about it.There's a little bit of moly left over from the run of Delo SDE last summer, otherwise very similar to the other OCIs with Delo XLE.
My truck and trailer are very light weight (as far as OTR trucks go) and all I do is haul heavy loads for a couple of companies. During the summer (no tire chains, less survival gear, etc) I can haul 50k lbs in my trailer. Mostly I'm at 79k lbs (+ or -) with less than 4% deadhead miles.
I'm on my third set of steer tires (I don't run them down to the legal minimum), my original drive tires (Michelin XDN2) are down to 9/32nds and will get me through to November. Right now I'm enjoying the fuel efficiency afforded by the shallow tread, but golly I can't wait to get new tires for the much improved ride. Brakes are still 90% of new.
Code
Delo XLE 10W-30
Donaldson filters for everything

Odometer 399368
Oil and filters 58458 miles
Oil hours 1529 (1116 driving / 413 idling)
7939 U.S. gallons of fuel burned (7.3633 mpg)

No oil added, remained full throughout the OCI

Copper         9
Iron          35 
Chromium       1
Aluminum      17
Lead           2
Tin            0

Silicon        7
Sodium         7
Potassium     21

Boron         25
Moly          27

Nickel         0
Silver         0

Titanium       0
Calcium     1436
Magnesium    792
Zinc         887
Phosphorus   745
Barium         0

Soot       0.38%
Oxidation     24
Nitration     13
Sulfation     29

Water          N
Antifreeze     N
Fuel           N 
(lab says they flag fuel with a "P" when it's 4%+)

% fuel      0.54

Visc @100°C 12.2

PQI            8        
(Particle Quantifying Index)










Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/29/19 05:40 PM

I've been running Delo CK-4 with less than 800 ppm phosphorus since 87k miles on the odometer, running long OCIs with crazy hours. CK-4 has been a true benefit for me. I'm staying out of the shop for 5 months at a time and not having to sweat it, as the oil takes it very well. This is without any bypass filtration and the complete emissions system still intact.
Posted By: racin4ds

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/29/19 07:45 PM

Interesting, thanks Dusty. I just bought a full OCI of this exact oil for my next change on my 05 PSD. I'm really not liking the major decline in Moly, Zinc and boron though, And that low Phosphorus doesn't help. My question is what did they put back in it to make up for the decrease in AW/EP additives?

I was always told the Delo was great oil and worked well in the PSD (as you know are very picky about oils due to the HEUI system)

I'm hoping I don't regret my decision of buying Delo now...
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/30/19 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by racin4ds
My question is what did they put back in it to make up for the decrease in AW/EP additives?



I'm hoping I don't regret my decision of buying Delo now...

Ashless AW/EP/FM that doesn't show up in our basic oil analyses. Along with ashless detergents and dispersants. Sometime in the last couple of years, Molakule posted a VOA of his own formulation. When asked about the modest amount of calcium/magnesium, he said that those were secondary to the ashless detergents in the formula. It's all over my head but that's the easy answer.

I'm so comfortable with the longer OCIs because of the low wear metals and minimal oxidation seen in my UOAs. If this oil (with it's lower ZDDP and lack of moly) was lacking in AW/EP and FM, it would show up in the results. High friction and the resulting high heat would quicken the oxidation of the oil, but look at my UOAs. Oil has antioxidants (including help from zddp and some ashless AW/EP), but a friction modifier helps, too. At least in high pressure contact areas.
If you search for ashless AW/FMs, you'll find companies that sell and/or manufacture a variety of additives, including the ashless type for all sorts of purposes.

I don't blame you if you back out of using the XLE, especially with the hysteria that Ford has caused. But, I bet your 6.0 will work great with XLE in the sump. If it doesn't work out, tell us. thumbsup
Posted By: dustyroads

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 04/30/19 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by dustyroads
Originally Posted by racin4ds


If you search for ashless AW/FMs, you'll find companies that sell and/or manufacture a variety of additives, including the ashless type for all sorts of purposes.







This should have read ashless AW/EP. I don't know how much ashless FM is on the market. I was recently on the Chevron-Oronite website and they said that they offered their HDEO additive packages that include a unique friction modifier specifically developed for heavy duty oils. So at least there's that, but I'm pretty sure I've seen other additive companies that manufacture ashless FMs.
Posted By: racin4ds

Re: Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13 - 05/03/19 05:09 PM

Good to know, thanks! I'm going to run it. Got it on closeout at AZ for $12 a jug... smile
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