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Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY

Posted By: Superflan

Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 08:48 AM

Hi,

I maybe underestimated a disaster that was waiting to happen.

When we bought the used car, I noticed the clutch was slipping sometimes, but mainly after engaging each gear.

Later I figured out that hydraulics were the problem, and cleaning slave cylinder (all greasy inside) and flushing fluid solved 80% of clutch behaving issues.

But on occasions, like giving full throttle at sub-midrange RPMs, it slipped anyway until catching up at a higher speed. I then figured that even if clutch pack was replaced somewhere long before the purchase, that hydraulics was likely the root problem and that it continued to wear the actual clutch pack

Fast forward today, it slips at every hill, and I think it won't last more than a work day. I will check hydraulics in a minute to insure it's not sticking.

Any clue of special things when replacing a clutch pack and dual mass flywheel on this MY2001 TOYOTA 1AZ-FE RAV4 ?
Posted By: Gasbuggy

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 10:37 AM

I can't tell you any specific things you will need. But I can say that when I was 20 I replaced a clutch into a FWD toyota with a friend of mine who just like myself, had no clue what he was doing. We got it done and it worked.
Posted By: Audios

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 01:24 PM

Youre going to need alot alot alot of time and even more patience. Book time is 18.9 hours for 4wd!!!! This could be a killer for the car depending on how much you want to sink into the car, but we could be in the 3000 range at a shop. Insane!
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 01:39 PM

18h! Are you sure it's for the same car? Seems overkill
Posted By: Cujet

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 02:00 PM

18 hours for a shop means more than that for someone working on jack stands. Yikes.

Cars are such a pain sometimes. As an older guy, I simply don't have the time or energy to be dealing with transmission removals in my driveway. I truly feel for you.

I'd rather be out on my KTM, misbehaving.......
Posted By: Miller88

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 02:02 PM

On vehicles with transverse engines, you have to do a significant amount of extra work.

Front suspension has to come apart to be able to get the axle shafts out. Linkages have to be disconnected (and they are never in good locations). If you're lucky, the transmission can come out the top - otherwise you're dropping a subframe/kmenber/engine cradle/whatever-it-is to get the transmission out. Intake tubes, battery box ... all sorts of junk in the way with transverse engines.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Miller88
On vehicles with transverse engines, you have to do a significant amount of extra work.

Front suspension has to come apart to be able to get the axle shafts out. Linkages have to be disconnected (and they are never in good locations). If you're lucky, the transmission can come out the top - otherwise you're dropping a subframe/kmenber/engine cradle/whatever-it-is to get the transmission out. Intake tubes, battery box ... all sorts of junk in the way with transverse engines.


I'll document it so we can see what we have to see smile it's gonna be interesting
Posted By: supton

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 02:09 PM

Being AWD I could see it being a long job.

IIRC it was about an hour to drop the trans in my Jetta. But my mechanic had done it a bunch of times, knew what he was doing. But no extra driveshaft etc in the way.

Cars suck. Sometimes I think about buying new and flipping every 150-200k (6-10 years, give or take). Not the cheapest solution but perhaps least work involved.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 02:21 PM

Duplicate post
Posted By: Miller88

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by supton
Being AWD I could see it being a long job.

IIRC it was about an hour to drop the trans in my Jetta. But my mechanic had done it a bunch of times, knew what he was doing. But no extra driveshaft etc in the way.

Cars suck. Sometimes I think about buying new and flipping every 150-200k (6-10 years, give or take). Not the cheapest solution but perhaps least work involved.



I said I was done with new or even newer vehicles. I figured with a small fleet of older vehicles, I could make it work.

Until all three broke at once
Posted By: BigD1

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Miller88
On vehicles with transverse engines, you have to do a significant amount of extra work.

Front suspension has to come apart to be able to get the axle shafts out. Linkages have to be disconnected (and they are never in good locations). If you're lucky, the transmission can come out the top - otherwise you're dropping a subframe/kmenber/engine cradle/whatever-it-is to get the transmission out. Intake tubes, battery box ... all sorts of junk in the way with transverse engines.


Yes they are a royal PITA.

If the trans comes out the bottom, they will probably need an engine support bar.

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html
Posted By: AZjeff

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Superflan
Hi,

I maybe underestimated a disaster that was waiting to happen.


We've probably all done that with used cars with varying degrees of work and expense involved to correct the oversight. In another thread someone mentioned a free car that he had $2300 in and wasn't done yet. Ouch.

Grateful I don't have to deal with vehicles in their end of life miles. Hope it all doesn't have to come out the bottom. Good luck.
Posted By: supton

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by supton
Being AWD I could see it being a long job.

IIRC it was about an hour to drop the trans in my Jetta. But my mechanic had done it a bunch of times, knew what he was doing. But no extra driveshaft etc in the way.

Cars suck. Sometimes I think about buying new and flipping every 150-200k (6-10 years, give or take). Not the cheapest solution but perhaps least work involved.



I said I was done with new or even newer vehicles. I figured with a small fleet of older vehicles, I could make it work.

Until all three broke at once

LOL Sorry, I can see that happening. MTBF all deciding to hit at once.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 03:29 PM

That clutch is toast. A slipping clutch is almost never the fault of hydraulics, unless there is a leak on the clutch, as they are used to disengage the clutch, then the clutch springs engage it and ensure it stays engaged.

I would look for a single mass flywheel conversion kit. It will be less expensive than a dual mass flywheel and should last for the life of this vehicle no problems.
Posted By: Audios

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 04:45 PM

2WD drops it down to 6.7 hours, so heres hoping that its only a front wheel drive?
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 04:48 PM

Agree. Nothing good comes of dual mass flywheels. If it's the type with the springs, I bet some are broken.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
That clutch is toast. A slipping clutch is almost never the fault of hydraulics, unless there is a leak on the clutch, as they are used to disengage the clutch, then the clutch springs engage it and ensure it stays engaged.

I would look for a single mass flywheel conversion kit. It will be less expensive than a dual mass flywheel and should last for the life of this vehicle no problems.


I have receipt of clutch repair at 80000km or so, it's 144000km and toast. 60000km is rather short for a set. The hydraulics were sticking when pressed, I opened and cleaned 2 times because OEM 17 years DOT3 fill was forming gunk in master and slave cylinder. I guess this wore out the clutch prematurely. I could see the fork still moving when pressing pedal and going out of car before cleaning inside

Seems I'm wrong and it's not a DMF (I'll see it live tomorrow)

Originally Posted by Audios
2WD drops it down to 6.7 hours, so heres hoping that its only a front wheel drive?


It's a 4WD
Posted By: bullwinkle

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by supton
Being AWD I could see it being a long job.

IIRC it was about an hour to drop the trans in my Jetta. But my mechanic had done it a bunch of times, knew what he was doing. But no extra driveshaft etc in the way.

Cars suck. Sometimes I think about buying new and flipping every 150-200k (6-10 years, give or take). Not the cheapest solution but perhaps least work involved.



I said I was done with new or even newer vehicles. I figured with a small fleet of older vehicles, I could make it work.

Until all three broke at once
That was recently my situation-GMC developed a pretty big fuel leak (hose under the intake, of course), and the xB’s exhaust decided to fall off. Good thing it was 65F & mostly sunny last Saturday! Had to get them fixed before the XJ or F-450 got any ideas...
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Superflan
Originally Posted by KrisZ
That clutch is toast. A slipping clutch is almost never the fault of hydraulics, unless there is a leak on the clutch, as they are used to disengage the clutch, then the clutch springs engage it and ensure it stays engaged.

I would look for a single mass flywheel conversion kit. It will be less expensive than a dual mass flywheel and should last for the life of this vehicle no problems.


I have receipt of clutch repair at 80000km or so, it's 144000km and toast. 60000km is rather short for a set. The hydraulics were sticking when pressed, I opened and cleaned 2 times because OEM 17 years DOT3 fill was forming gunk in master and slave cylinder. I guess this wore out the clutch prematurely. I could see the fork still moving when pressing pedal and going out of car before cleaning inside

Seems I'm wrong and it's not a DMF (I'll see it live tomorrow)


Wow! You learn something new everyday. I never encountered or heard of something like this before. The fluid must've been really gunky to hold off the clutch plate pressure.
Thanks for sharing this.👍
Posted By: mk378

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 07:13 PM

Sounds like contaminated fluid, in that case the only cure is to replace both cylinders and flush the line well.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by KrisZ

Wow! You learn something new everyday. I never encountered or heard of something like this before. The fluid must've been really gunky to hold off the clutch plate pressure.
Thanks for sharing this.👍

Yeah me neither. The gunk looked like blue « marine » grease

Originally Posted by mk378
Sounds like contaminated fluid, in that case the only cure is to replace both cylinders and flush the line well.

I’ll monitor things carefully but now it’s working good
Posted By: benjy

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 07:53 PM

todays clutches being hydraulic generally feed of brake fluid reservoir, at least my 11 nissan frontier does. changing + flushing all fluid is generally every 5 years. can't say anything but good luck + as noted single mass fly + aftermarket can be a lot cheaper, look for you tubes + buy a service manual for specific torques. i would join + look at a Rav IV specific forum as well, good luck!!
Posted By: JC1

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 08:52 PM

The OP is in Reunion Island, I doubt there's a HF location close by.

I would try the job myself. Probably need two weekends to get it all done...

Here is a link which may help you. Not sure if any special tools are needed to access everything.

https://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/how-fit-clutch-toyota-rav4/
Posted By: Lolvoguy

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/08/19 08:56 PM

Hope it's just a hydraulic issue.
I had something similar with my BMW several years ago. The slave was fed off the master cyl (shared res.) and once the brake fluid went low enough, it caused issues with the slave.

Another vote for FWD/RWD
Posted By: Silk

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 12:03 AM

I doubt the hydraulics would wear out the clutch, the release bearing and fingers maybe, but not the clutch plate.

I haven't done the later models, but the first RAV4's were a really pain. you can't pull the gearbox back because it hits the transfer box, you can't remove the transfer because it hits the block. In the shop it's easier to drop the powertrain on the floor and jiggle it all apart. A young guy at work did one in the car last year, it looked nasty because he had the engine hanging at an angle to get the box down. Not something I'd do at home that's for sure.
Posted By: Cujet

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 03:01 AM

I’d make extremely sure the pressure plate has free play at the fingers. As a clutch disk wears the free play decreases. Replacement parts may have different dimensions and take up any slack faster.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 05:25 AM

New parts

Attached picture 20190209_091747.jpg
Attached picture 20190209_092422.jpg
Posted By: Audios

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 03:52 PM

Wheres Extra EU?
Posted By: mk378

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 04:24 PM

I read that to mean "somewhere not in the EU." The telephone number would lead to Verona, Italy though.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 06:47 PM

So, the [censored] clutch kit is out. Rivets were licking pressure plate.

Jack up the car, remove wheels, detach control arms, detach wheel pivots, remove x member, remove front driveshafts, remove half airbox, detach clutch slave cylinder, lines, remove starter motor, jack up engine, remove gearbox, done.

It took 3 hours for me and a brother's friend who did it on his RAV4 weeks ago.

Now I need to shave the flywheel that is in bad shape before putting it all back together

Next on Monday with pics

Attached picture 20190209_135647.jpg
Posted By: eljefino

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 06:56 PM

well done!
Posted By: mk378

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 07:03 PM


I guess you get used to working like this, being in the Southern Hemisphere.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 07:25 PM

Nice job!

Hiwever, before spending money on resurfacing the flyweel, I would make sure you have enough thickness to play with. It just may be too far gone if the rivets were digging in.

Posted By: George7941

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 07:29 PM

The fingers look very long. All the diaphragm spring clutches I have seen have shorter fingers and part of the diaphragm can been seen, unlike this one where the pressure plate cover hides the diaphragm.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by mk378
I guess you get used to working like this, being in the Southern Hemisphere.

It was a joke waiting to happen

Originally Posted by KrisZ
However, before spending money on resurfacing the flyweel, I would make sure you have enough thickness to play with. It jus may be too far if the rivets were digging in.
The rivets (those in the friction disc) didnt touch on the flywheel side, only on the pressure plate side, resulting in asymmetrical wear between both sides of the friction disc. I’ll take pics of worn parts tomorrow with a full phone battery smile
Posted By: supton

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/09/19 11:16 PM

Dumb question: any easier to lift the engine instead? I see you've got it out and done with already, but if I was facing this job, I'd be wondering about that option.

Edit: good job! Sounds like it was quite the task.
Posted By: antonmnster

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/10/19 06:22 PM

Nice work!
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 02:05 AM

Attached you'll find the best I can do for now with the flywheel.

Didn't machine the ring where the dowels come because after balancing there was still a 0.05mm warp. I left that part zlone


Description: 0.10 shaved
Attached picture 20190211_114941-2.jpg

Description: 0.30 final
Attached picture 20190211_143703.jpg

Description: Final close-up
Attached picture 20190211_143653.jpg

Description: Cracks final
Attached picture 20190211_143643.jpg
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 02:11 AM

The flywheel was definitely heat stressed. Cracks are a dead giveaway, but the different shade spots show the localized overheating quite well. It will probably hold up, but I would take it easy.
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by KrisZ
The flywheel was definitely heat stressed. Cracks are a dead giveaway, but the different shade spots show the localized overheating quite well. It will probably hold up, but I would take it easy.

Yeah I will not drag race it.

Today I have to put CV shafts back, suspension, replace a tie rod and it should be rolling
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 04:08 AM

I've always had Flywheels "Ground", A Lathe-bit will ride over the hard spots......Just my opinion!
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 04:28 AM

If life allows us to spend some big money in cars, this toy is gonna get some uprated parts (because anyway suspension would be dead, every rubber parts, etc.)
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I've always had Flywheels "Ground", A Lathe-bit will ride over the hard spots......Just my opinion!

I thought that, but then going over with the needle tip dial gauge (how do you people call that device?) shown virtually nothing bumpy. But that was one really BIG lathe, could have put myself in it
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Superflan
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I've always had Flywheels "Ground", A Lathe-bit will ride over the hard spots......Just my opinion!

I thought that, but then going over with the needle tip dial gauge (how do you people call that device?) shown virtually nothing bumpy. But that was one really BIG lathe, could have put myself in it


Dial Indicator, I guess if the lathe was big enough & you plunge the tool holder/bit head-on into the material, Maybe? Surfacing usually requires a consistency in the material being cut.
I machine a lot of automatic transmission pistons, pressure plates & drums, But am in no way a "all knowing" expert on running a lathe!
Posted By: Superflan

Re: Wife's RAV4, burnt clutch, DIY - 02/12/19 12:43 PM

Yeah it was a very big lathe.

Well, the car is running!

It was a great experience to learn car mechanics.

Thanks to the crowd here at BITOG, friends, brother, and brother's friends for making all this possible, all in a short delay with more than good results ! And parents for keeping my 3yr old son entertained while I do those repairs

Keep wrenching, learn something.

Bonus: old parts pics


Description: Old Friction disc
Attached picture 20190212_114154.jpg

Description: Other side
Attached picture 20190212_114146.jpg

Description: Old pressure plate
Attached picture 20190212_114211.jpg
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