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The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission

Posted By: mattd

The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/30/19 11:07 PM

Thought I’d share my most recent work project . I have done several of these transmissions with the same issue. 3-4 upshift slip or flare between shifts. Here are some disassembly pics. Enjoy.

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/30/19 11:09 PM

A few more. Assembly pictures will follow once parts come in

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Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/30/19 11:18 PM

That transmission was way to clean to have failed. I think you're pulling our legs. LOL

Dang, those clutch disks are shot! What's the root cause and fix?
Posted By: nthach

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/30/19 11:26 PM

It doesn't look as complicated as I thought but those clutches are thin!
Posted By: PandaBear

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/30/19 11:28 PM

Clutch worn out? or glazed?
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/30/19 11:55 PM

Worn down to the metal zero friction material left on half of the friction plates in that set. Forward, direct, and low/reverse were worn beyond maximum limits and the overdrive was worn 5 times max limit. I am very impressed how well the TCM adapted to the wear. This particular clutch (overdrive) has too little surface area compared the others in the transmission. There is an aftemarket clutch drum that has 50% more holding power from increased clutch count but requires a billet intermediate shaft and billet input shaft (which also acts as overdrive drum) to a tune of 1500$. Not a reasonable cost for a municipality. This truck is a F450 rescue with a 6.7 powerstroke. Just over 100k miles. It’s gstting a full overhaul. There are several updated hard parts too ford has made over the years.

This transmission is not bad to rebuild. Some special tools are required specific to this unit. They are also heavy 325lbs dry. The input assembly alone all together weighs 80 lbs . Its 4 pic up from bottom on the left.
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by mattd
Thought I’d share my most recent work project . I have done several of these transmissions with the same issue. 3-4 upshift slip or flare between shifts. Here are some disassembly pics. Enjoy.



What are you finding as the main problems?

I am working with an AT shop near here developing a rebuild ATF. The MERCON® LV fluid doesn't seem to have the FM longevity needed for 150,000 mile OCI's.

In addition, while the dual filter system removes particulates, the quick lockup feature of the TCC on upshifts shears the fluid pretty fast.
Posted By: CT8

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 12:20 AM

Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 12:45 AM

This is a diesel application. However the physical size between gas and diesel are the same but internally some differences. It has 6 forward ratios and a torque input capacity of 1400 lb ft.

Molakule, you are correct. In this application 150k miles is far too much for the fluid. The trans made it barely 2/3 of the way there. Ford now sells a friction modifier called XL16 and recommends using it after an overhaul. The torque converter clutch is used far more than the previous generations of the torqshift and can definitely contribute to shear. These transmissions are also designed to operate at around 200*F fluid temperature. The main issue I feel with this transmission is the overdrive clutch surface area. It was also designed with a molded rubber piston and all the other clutch sets use a solid aluminum piston with lip seals.

I’ll try to have some more detailed pics of the individual components when I reassemble it.
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by CT8
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


Both gas and diesel.
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by mattd

...Molakule, you are correct. In this application 150k miles is far too much for the fluid. The trans made it barely 2/3 of the way there. Ford now sells a friction modifier called XL16 and recommends using it after an overhaul. The torque converter clutch is used far more than the previous generations of the torqshift and can definitely contribute to shear. These transmissions are also designed to operate at around 200*F fluid temperature. The main issue I feel with this transmission is the overdrive clutch surface area. It was also designed with a molded rubber piston and all the other clutch sets use a solid aluminum piston with lip seals...


Thanks for the info. The shop is very hesitant to use an MoDTC amide additive since this is an organo-metallic FM and we don't feel this is going to fix any problems.
Posted By: CT8

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CT8
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


Both gas and diesel.

Is your shop seeing many of the 60R140 trans with problems? I am a fluid and filter changer when the unit is new then sooner than later after the break in oil change
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 01:10 AM

Right around 100k miles they start to develop issues. The 450s tend to show up faster than the 350s. My only guess is due to weight. Keep in mind a majority of the trucks I see have very hard miles. Constant run time with lots of city driving with hills. This particular truck has 17000 engine hours with just over 100k road miles. By the hours it’s approximately 560,000 engine miles.
Posted By: xxch4osxx

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 01:24 AM

Has this transmission ever been serviced through out the time it was in service? I would have thought that they would have at least one fluid and filter change in that amount of miles due to the severe operating environment they are used in.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 02:50 AM

No it has not. It makes too much sense to do that. The person that is in charge of the department does not believe in routine fluid changes (other than engine oil). I have convinced him otherwise as this is the 7th transmission failure in 2 years in rescue fleet alone.
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CT8
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


Both gas and diesel.

Is your shop seeing many of the 60R140 trans with problems? I am a fluid and filter changer when the unit is new then sooner than later after the break in oil change

None that I have seen. But we generally don't repair something like OP does, they just have us put in a new/reman assembly.
Posted By: xxch4osxx

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 01/31/19 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by mattd
No it has not. It makes too much sense to do that. The person that is in charge of the department does not believe in routine fluid changes (other than engine oil). I have convinced him otherwise as this is the 7th transmission failure in 2 years in rescue fleet alone.


Not really surprising. They think they are saving money buy not doing proper preventitive maintenance till something grenades and ends up costing them big bucks. I can imagine these transmissions are not cheap to rebuild and the downtime of not having the vehicle in service can be detrimental for an emergency services outfit. It is good to know you have convinced them otherwise!
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/01/19 07:00 PM

I can't believe that person is still employed. On fleet trucks the only real way to keep them on the road (and hence, making money) is to do preventive maintenance. I had a buddy that owned about ten semis that hauled steel in the NW Indiana area on local routes, so a couple loads per day loaded to the max weight limit of the roads. He said that a single day of not hauling loads on a single semi ended up costing him around $300-350 in lost income, AFTER all the bills and payrolls were paid.

Tell me any normal maintenance such as oil and trans fluid changes that will cost a business owner that does their own maintenance that much?? Now, add a trans rebuild and multiple downtime days together because of skimping on preventive maintenance... $15-20k realized loss to the business easily. Per truck. Adds up quick!
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/01/19 11:19 PM

Most of the parts came in still waiting on a half dozen things or so

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/01/19 11:23 PM

A few more

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/01/19 11:25 PM

And some more

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Posted By: CT8

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/01/19 11:48 PM

Thanks and I hope you post more.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 02:53 AM

A few parts still on back order and waiting for some selective snap rings to adjust clutch clearance but here is a few more for now

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 02:55 AM

A few more

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 02:57 AM

And last round till I get some more parts

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Posted By: claluja

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 03:08 AM

Great info - thanks for posting. Will be ordering another filter and Mercon LV tomorrow for my 6R140W, based on the comments above. Has 155K, but haven't replaced filter or drained since 75K.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 11:13 AM

Definitely do so. These are not the cheapest units to rebuild. Due to the service the trucks I work on see I convinced the boss that to do a drain and fill once a year on all the trucks.

What year is your truck?
Posted By: claluja

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by mattd
Definitely do so. These are not the cheapest units to rebuild. Due to the service the trucks I work on see I convinced the boss that to do a drain and fill once a year on all the trucks.

What year is your truck?


2014 F250 6.7 (20-30% of the miles towing 14K). Thanks for the advice!
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 12:20 PM

The 14s have most but not all the updated hard parts so if you ever have to have it rebuilt not too many updates other than replacing worn parts

When it starts to show issues it will usually start flaring shifting from 3-4 so just watch for that.

Is the truck tuned/deleted?
Posted By: claluja

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by mattd
The 14s have most but not all the updated hard parts so if you ever have to have it rebuilt not too many updates other than replacing worn parts

When it starts to show issues it will usually start flaring shifting from 3-4 so just watch for that.

Is the truck tuned/deleted?


Yes, deleted about 11K ago. Tow tune slight HP increase. Thanks again!
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 12:54 PM

No problem if you ever have any questions in the future just shoot me a PM
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/06/19 04:39 PM

Used to be a commercial from one of the oil change places . " Pay now or pay latter . " Another saying is a nickles worth of grease can save a $ 100 bearing .

Glad you convinced your supervisor to start being more proactive on servicing the vehicles .

Thanks for the post and the photos . :-)
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/08/19 11:40 PM

Finished it up today last drum finally came in late this morning

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/08/19 11:42 PM

More

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/08/19 11:43 PM

Some more

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Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/08/19 11:44 PM

Last one gave it a paint job

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Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/08/19 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by mattd
Last one gave it a paint job


My friends and I have this inside joke where whenever one of us has a transmission out on one of our cars, or are putting a new one in, we paint the transmission cases pink. It started with one of my friends doing it on his Bronco, forgetting about it, then seeing a picture of it on Facebook jumping at the dunes at Pismo Beach.
Posted By: nthach

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/11/19 06:36 PM

Wasn't the Ford 6R140 series an answer to the Allison 1000 GM used? Or was a reworked and heavily tweaked 6R80 that in turn was somewhat ZF-based like the 6R60 and 5R110?
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/11/19 10:03 PM

It’s the second generation torqshift. It’s related to the 5r110 but i suppose it could be viewed as a super heavy duty version of the 6r80. IIRC the answer to the Allison 1000 was the 5r110. IMO the 6r140 handles added power much better than the Allison 1000 with no upgrades. There are many people running around with 600+ hp on a stock transmission other than tuning changes
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/12/19 12:09 AM

I'm only impressed because of the amount of torque a 600HP diesel makes. That transmission must be a real brick outhouse.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/12/19 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by mattd
It’s the second generation torqshift. It’s related to the 5r110 but i suppose it could be viewed as a super heavy duty version of the 6r80. IIRC the answer to the Allison 1000 was the 5r110. IMO the 6r140 handles added power much better than the Allison 1000 with no upgrades. There are many people running around with 600+ hp on a stock transmission other than tuning changes


I agree that the 6R140 handles added power A LOT better that a Allison 1000, I actually feel the same about the 5R110 with a good torque converter.
However.....It's been my experience that the 2006 & up Allison 1000 will run longer in the 350/650 output range at max GCWR.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/12/19 01:09 PM

The 5r110 is a great transmission that can take some abuse too. I have one in my personal truck. I have more experience with the ford transmssions than the Allison’s but from the ones I have seen they don’t take well to added power without some work. I will take your word for it about 06+ trucks.

If ford had made the overdrive clutch in the 6R140 with a better apply piston setup it would be more reliable. It has a very small range of contact on the first steel plate. There are aftermarket fixes for it but it is expensive. It would be a bullet proof transmission with an upgraded overdrive clutch. They did improve the Teflon sealing ring design with a solid peace vs a split ring on the 5R110. They also ditched all the molded pistons for aluminum ones except for overdrive on the 6r140 as yo could probably tel from the pictures
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/13/19 02:29 AM

And Manufacturers are well aware that "Thin Work Surface" apply pistons Cone the frictions & steels. Is this one offset aswell? The C2 clutch piston work surface in the 5spd Allison was thin & offset, Got corrected in the 6spd versions!

It's amazing how many builders will argue that Work Surface Area doesn't matter......I machine aluminum TH400 pistons to fit 4L80E's all the time, Though the TH400 pieces are getting harder & harder to find. But there are Billet versions $$$.

Pictures of apply piston Work Surface's to show everyone what the heck we're talking about!!
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/13/19 10:19 PM

No, it’s not offset. It’s even smaller than that C2 5 spd piston. This is how small the work area is. This is the steel plate that it pushes on. Second picture is the piston

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Posted By: nthach

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/13/19 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by clinebarger
And Manufacturers are well aware that "Thin Work Surface" apply pistons Cone the frictions & steels. Is this one offset aswell? The C2 clutch piston work surface in the 5spd Allison was thin & offset, Got corrected in the 6spd versions!


Pictures of apply piston Work Surface's to show everyone what the heck we're talking about!!


And that few mms of surface is responsible for transmitting power through the clutches via hydraulic actuation of the friction/steel assemblies. Wow. So much is leaning on that.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/13/19 10:44 PM

Yes that is correct.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/21/19 04:40 PM

Hey mattd, since you are the resident 6r140 expert here, I want to run some stuff by you.

My 16 F350 currently has just over 38k miles. I dropped the fluid and pan, changed filter, cleaned up the donut magnet, put 2 small high temp rare earth magnets in the small sump area on bottom of pan at 31450 miles. My plan is to drain and replace the 8 quarts every 30k miles. Then the additive package is maintained and a flush isn't required. What do you think? Can I let the filter go since I changed it at 31k?

I also added 16 oz of Lubegard Platinum additive. What's your take on Lubegard?

My truck is just a daily driver for now,stock, because I don't have a snow plow yet and no camper to pull yet either.

Appreciate you posting up the pictures and info On the 6r140.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/21/19 09:01 PM

I personally don’t like transmission additives but I don’t think it will hurt anything. Have never used them in any of the units I have built.

I do a drain and fill once a year on my truck (07 F350) and change the inline filter too. It has been almost 6 years without a hiccup since I built it (knock on wood of course).

I think doing a drain and fill at that interval would be fine especially since you don’t tow or anything. I tow a camper with my truck that’s why I do what I do.

If you ever have any questions about it in the future feel free to PM me
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 12:23 AM

How many miles on your 2007 F350? Do you tow or plow with it at all?

Here's the link to the Lubegard stuff I used:

https://lubegard.opticatonline.com/...=136801&ctx_region=usa&ctx_iam=1

My last truck and first Ford I owned was a 1996 F350 with 351 Windsor 4.11s. I plowed with that truck pretty hard. I added a B&M trans pan to the E4OD that added about 2 or 3 quarts extra I believe, also added a cooler to the plow frame crossmember behind the front bumper like this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-331000/

I also added this exact cooler to the cooling circuit for the transmission :

https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Cool-LPD47391-Pressure-Transmission-Cooler/dp/B0060NKA1U

I also used this filter from Dieselsite.com :

http://www.dieselsite.com/dieselsitetransmissionfiltersystemTFIK.aspx

I used a FilterMag on the Diesel site filter:

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/shop-filtermag-2/

The very last thing that was added to the return line back to the E4OD was a dual valve tee that I would shut off the line going back to the trans but open up the bottom line of the tee to drain out ATF. I would have someone sit inside and run the trans through the gears. As soon as it started spitting air, I'd have them put it park and shut it off. That was about 10 quarts if memory serves me correctly. I'd fill it back up and do the process over again. I did this once a year. Usually in the fall before winter.

That E4OD lasted 92k miles and I plowed commercially in the WNY winters. It still worked when it was pulled but there was a lot of clutch material when we drained to it to send back as a core for the Monster Box I bought. I'd like to think what I did, OVERKILL, essentially made that trans last through all the plowing that I did during some storms where the truck was running for over 24 hours at times.

So you think it's okay that I go the 30k mile OCI because I don't work it? I used the 30k interval because I've heard that from the past for transmissions.

Why do you think Ford recommends a 150k mile OCI for these transmissions? Personally I think that's crazy. There are guys that change their engine oil at 5k, a different beast all together, but don't think of their trans fluid. What do you think?

Appreciate your offer of DM, thanks.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 12:56 AM

30k is just fine I tow a 7500 lb camper from March to October put no plowing. It’s 6.0.

Like I said I have never felt the need for transmission additives but It shouldn’t hurt a thing.

The cooler is unnecessary in my opinion the trans is thermostatically controlled to 200* and the liquid to liquid cooler it has is extremely efficient. I have really never seen one of these run hit even towing with factory cooling.

The additional filtration won’t hurt either as long it doesn’t restrict cooler flow.

As far as the 150k interval I have no idea why but I haven’t seen one make it to that with original fluid and both fail.

My truck has 230k miles .
Posted By: das_peikko

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 01:36 AM

[Linked Image]

Is that the back of an ambulance?
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 01:37 AM

It is.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 02:40 AM

Dave I think I misread your post I thought you added the cooler and everything to the ‘16 Truck sorry.
Posted By: BlakeB

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 06:27 AM

My dad has had 2 6.7’s, a 2012 and a 2013. I used to haul hay with them on a gooseneck. It wasn’t uncommon for me to see 240°F trans temps on hot days. The 2012 was traded in after about 20k miles for a laundry list of issues we kept having... figured it was just a fluke. He traded the 12 for the 13, same story on the 13, but he kept it for almost 80k miles, the transmission was starting to misbehave not too long before we traded it in. Neither truck ever had a fluid or filter change.

The 08 6.4 we had before the 6.7’s never gave a bit of trouble, It was my favorite of any of the 3 Fords we’ve had. Y’all can keep the 6.7’s, they’ve left us on the side of the road too many times. Maybe they’d have been alright if we had deleted them from the beginning, who knows. The 2012 had to be towed (the first time) to the dealer at 11k miles and the 2013 quit at 17k miles. Unacceptable for a $60k truck that’s less than a year old. We both drive duramaxs now.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 11:25 AM

Sorry to hear about your troubles Blake. Ford had issues with EGT sensors in the first model years of the 6.7 but got it mostly sorted in 2013. I live in s different environment maybe that’s why I have never seen the trans temps you did.

The 6.7 deleted is very reliable. We had a couple of rescues reach 25,000 engine hours with them with deletes (750,000-800,000 miles).

The 5R110 that was behind the 6.4 is also a very strong transmission they used it behind the 6.0 as well. Surprised to hear about the reliability of the 6.4 as it was the worst Diesel engine ford used all time in their line of pickups. You got a good one.
Posted By: BlakeB

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/25/19 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by mattd
Sorry to hear about your troubles Blake. Ford had issues with EGT sensors in the first model years of the 6.7 but got it mostly sorted in 2013. I live in s different environment maybe that’s why I have never seen the trans temps you did.

The 6.7 deleted is very reliable. We had a couple of rescues reach 25,000 engine hours with them with deletes (750,000-800,000 miles).

The 5R110 that was behind the 6.4 is also a very strong transmission they used it behind the 6.0 as well. Surprised to hear about the reliability of the 6.4 as it was the worst Diesel engine ford used all time in their line of pickups. You got a good one.

There were a lot of things I liked about the 6.7's and the Ford trucks in general but they just were not reliable for us.
The 6.4's have a bad rep, seems like you either got a really good one or a really bad one. I guess we got a good one, I loved that truck. It was starting to get a slight knock when it was cold right before we traded it in at about 80k miles, but we didn't take particularly good care of it. It served us well all things considered. I overheated the trans on the 6.4 once(pretty early in its life), but it didn't seem to hurt it. I can't remember how hot it got, but I remember it was near the right edge of the trans temp gauge. I manually shifted into 2nd or 3rd and forgot about it for a minute, I was basically stall testing the TC with 25k lbs behind me for a couple minutes pulling out of a field onto the road.... don't judge... I was young and not as in tune with things as I am now. Lol
The 6.4 was a powerful truck and I always liked the way it handled a load. If it had been maintained the way it should have I don't think it would have got traded in as soon as it did.
We put a lot of hours on our trucks, we usually average 12-13mph. Dads 2016 LML has 38.5k miles and ~2,600 engine hours. He's closer to 15 mph right now, but I've put several highway miles on it going out of state to pick some stuff up that's outside of our usual driving habits. Dad usually trades trucks about every 4 years at somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-90k miles but he says this is his favorite truck to date, he's talking about deleting it and keeping it for a while.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by mattd
Dave I think I misread your post I thought you added the cooler and everything to the ‘16 Truck sorry.


Yes sir, you did. I was talking about my 96 with the E4OD. I have no plans to mess with the 6r140 fluid circuit. If I would do anything, I'd do a larger pan but really have no plans to do so. What's your thoughts on the aftermarket aluminum extra capacity trans pans?

And speaking of your 5R110, is that the original trans with original miles?
Posted By: Shannow

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 09:15 AM

Hi all, just want you to know how appreciative I am of threads like these...
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by daved5150
Originally Posted by mattd
Dave I think I misread your post I thought you added the cooler and everything to the ‘16 Truck sorry.


Yes sir, you did. I was talking about my 96 with the E4OD. I have no plans to mess with the 6r140 fluid circuit. If I would do anything, I'd do a larger pan but really have no plans to do so. What's your thoughts on the aftermarket aluminum extra capacity trans pans?

And speaking of your 5R110, is that the original trans with original miles?


Save your money on the pan it is not necessary. I rebuilt my 5R 6 years ago with 140K miles. All that failed on it was the steel plates and 2 clutches were worn but I went through it anyway with upgraded stuff.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 02:53 PM

I figured you would say that... To disregard the pan "upgrade." I asked a diesel mechanic familiar with Ford's and he said the same thing.

You're putting about 3k miles less than me a year at 15k miles (90k ÷ 6 years) but you're towing. So you essentially cut the 30k mile OCI in half. Do you also change out the transfer case fluid as well at this interval? I forget if I mentioned it but I changed mine.

I remember reading somewhere that the earlier MY 6r140s had more clutch and steel plate counts than the later MYs. Is this true?

About deleting, I did purchase an extended warranty of 7/125k which looking back, I should have saved my money but down the road if I experience emission component failures, I plan on deleting. I'm not looking for crazy power, probably just a modest tow tune. I'm collecting info now as we speak.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Shannow
Hi all, just want you to know how appreciative I am of threads like these...


I love threads like this as I learn and gain info as I go. I was late to the party... mattd deserves the thanks for posting this thread with all the great pics of the 6R140 Trans parts.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by daved5150
I figured you would say that... To disregard the pan "upgrade." I asked a diesel mechanic familiar with Ford's and he said the same thing.

You're putting about 3k miles less than me a year at 15k miles (90k ÷ 6 years) but you're towing. So you essentially cut the 30k mile OCI in half. Do you also change out the transfer case fluid as well at this interval? I forget if I mentioned it but I changed mine.

I remember reading somewhere that the earlier MY 6r140s had more clutch and steel plate counts than the later MYs. Is this true?

About deleting, I did purchase an extended warranty of 7/125k which looking back, I should have saved my money but down the road if I experience emission component failures, I plan on deleting. I'm not looking for crazy power, probably just a modest tow tune. I'm collecting info now as we speak.


I change my transfer case fluid every 50k miles. The only difference as far as clutch plates was direct clutch used 5 thinner steel plates in early builds (.083”) vs 4 steels in late builds (.118”). Both early and late builds used the same amount of frictions (.078”). Intermediate friction material was changed along with the center support design in late builds as well. There are also different reverse piston designs early vs late.
Posted By: Env1ous

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 06:16 PM

Just because you are very familiar with Fords. I have a 13 F150 with the 6r80. I have 82k miles right now. I dropped the pan and replaced fluid and the filter 2 years ago around 60k miles. What service interval would you recommend to keep it healthy and happy? I have the ecoboost and it is tuned so it does see a fair share of abuse lol
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 06:19 PM

Did you have the transmission tuned to go with the engine tunes? That is most important to make it live.

I would do a pan drop every 30k or so unless you notice the fluid getting darker or burnt faster than it should.
Posted By: Env1ous

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 06:22 PM

Correct sir. Most of the tunes do change the trans tuning as well. Not many leave the trans stock.
I really do like this trans a lot. A few guys are putting a lot of power through the stock units and you don't see many upgrade options besides upgraded clutch packs.

Awesome! Thank you. That is the type of schedule I was following. Would it hurt to maybe do two drain and fills this year to get a lot of the older fluid out?
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 07:08 PM

Clean fluid will only help. What’s the fluid look/smell like? If it’s clean and smells fine leave it alone if not go ahead and change it
Posted By: Env1ous

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/26/19 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by mattd
Clean fluid will only help. What’s the fluid look/smell like? If it’s clean and smells fine leave it alone if not go ahead and change it


A little dark. Not a cherry red. I think the pan drop and exchange will be fine. But ill get more of an indepth look when I actually drop it! lol hornets
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/27/19 04:06 PM

Thanks mattd. I'm still learning about whats going on inside auto Transmissions. Not like I'm going to rebuild them. It's just interesting to learn what's going on inside.
Is there any longevity increase in the redesigned later MYs? Out of curiosity, have you seen inside one of the 17+ 6R140s?

What is your opinion on what the life of a stock 6r140 would be with regular fluid drops and filter changes?

What's your opinion of the factory trans filter and should it be changed at same time of trans pan fluid drop?

About the fluid itself, Mercon LV, is it true it gets dark red rather quickly because of heat? When I changed mine out, it was dark red but didn't have the burned smell. Here's a pic of the fluid when I changed it. Also a picture of the small magnets I used on the bottom of the pan.

Attached picture 0913181351.jpg
Attached picture 0913181405.jpg
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/27/19 04:11 PM

Here's a pic of the magnets where I placed them in the pan.

Attached picture 0913181412.jpg
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 02/27/19 10:21 PM

Time will tell about longevity increase in later model years. I haven’t been inside a 17+ yet they are too new and al under factory warranty still. We have a 17 and 2 18s that are piling on the miles fast so we will see. The transmissions I overhaul are essentially what’s inside a 2018 trans. I install all the updated parts.

The fluid does tend to darken fast. One of the 2018s we have has 12000 miles and is already a maroon color on the dipstick. However once difference I did notice on the 17+ transmissions is they did away with a drain plug on the pan. You must now remove the pan to drain any fluid.

I personally use valvoline max life LV rated fluid and it stays pink more or less the entire interval on my 5R110. I either use the motor craft LV fluid or the bulk oilzum synthetic atf for the fleet vehicles.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/02/19 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by mattd
Time will tell about longevity increase in later model years. I haven’t been inside a 17+ yet they are too new and al under factory warranty still. We have a 17 and 2 18s that are piling on the miles fast so we will see. The transmissions I overhaul are essentially what’s inside a 2018 trans. I install all the updated parts.

The fluid does tend to darken fast. One of the 2018s we have has 12000 miles and is already a maroon color on the dipstick. However once difference I did notice on the 17+ transmissions is they did away with a drain plug on the pan. You must now remove the pan to drain any fluid.

I personally use valvoline max life LV rated fluid and it stays pink more or less the entire interval on my 5R110. I either use the motor craft LV fluid or the bulk oilzum synthetic atf for the fleet vehicles.


So I'm assuming the upgraded parts you are rebuilding with are factory parts?

Looks like the penny pitchers at corporate were looking to save money by not installing a drain bolt in the pans. That sucks for people who work on them. Not like I'm a full time mechanic, just a backyard guy who learned from his father, but there is nothing worse than laying on the ground lowering a trans pan down full of ATF that has no drain bolt plug. It's obviously easier for you with a lift though.

I see the Valvoline MaxLife ATF Mercon LV stuff at Advance for $29 for the gallon bottle. Wal-Mart has it for $18. I just checked my wife's transaxle in her 2009 Ford Escape today. I changed it about 46k miles ago and to be honest, I have forgotten about it as I would have changed it out earlier again. I checked my notepad that I keep for the Escape and I used Valvoline MaxLife. It was darker in color and had no burned smell to it. So I think I'm going to drop 8 quarts of MaxLife into my truck for the next pan drop. I'm kind of impressed that it was still in decent shape after 46k miles.

I never heard of Oilzum so I'll have to check them out for FYI.

I can't wait to see what guys are going to be saying about the new 10r140, if that's going to be the name, and the 6.7 and what kind of mileage it's going to yield with 4 extra gears. We shall see.
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/02/19 03:05 AM

I will have to do some research on the new 10 speed. I heard rumors it was going to be a 6R140 with an extra 4 pinion planetary but we will see.

In my opinion there’s no need for a 10 speed transmission with the power the 6.7 produces. I feel that it is very well geared the way it is.

I buy the maxlife atf at Walmart it is cheapest there.

The oilzum was not my decision to buy that’s what the shop buys here is a link
https://denlube.com/site/wp-content/uploads/Oilzum-Synthetic-ATF-PDS.pdf

And yes, all the updated parts I use are factory parts.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/03/19 11:58 PM

The reason I believe they are going with more gears is to try to get as much mileage out of the New trucks as possible. With more gears, the engine stays in the power band and uses less fuel because the 6.7 doesn't have to work so hard because of less RPM drop. Just my 2 cents. But my 16 feels pretty good with the 6 speed box. I do wonder how it would roll with 2 extra gears though...

That Oilzum sounds just like the MaxLife, a multi use ATF. Thanks for the link. So why don't you think it's a good ATF?

And about rebuilding the 6R140, you sound like you have a lot of knowledge about it. How far are you from Western New York if I need mine done down the line? grin
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/04/19 03:58 AM

I’m about 8 hrs from niagra falls or about 1.5 hrs from Hartford CT, 2.5 hrs or so from NYC. I’d be happy to help you out if the need ever arose.

I never said it wasn’t a good atf I just was saying it wasn’t my decision to buy it. We haven’t had any fluid related issues with any of the units we use it in including big stuff like Allison 4000 transmissions.

I understand what ford is trying to achieve but i feel like it would ruin the driving experience because it would be shifting so frequently. That’s just my personal opinion.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/05/19 12:16 AM

I live south of Buffalo or about 45 minutes from Niagara Falls. You're not far from me at all. I appreciate the welcome. I plan on maintaining this truck and keeping it after it's paid off. These trucks are too expensive to upgrade all the time, but some guys like new trucks with new payments. I like to maintain what I have and not have the big payment.

About the 10 speed, I'm just speculating as you know more, way more, than I do about the operation of automatic transmissions. But what you say makes sense too. More parts with more things to fail, maybe more gear hunting. My truck runs good as is but not that I'm fond of the factory shifting strategy. The trans upshifts way too fast which makes the engine lug at the lower speeds when in 5th and 6th gears. I keep it in tow/haul mode which helps slow the truck on the hills I encounter. I also lock out 6th gear when I'm not on the highway. The regens are out at 500 miles so I believe what I do helps reduce soot. There is no harm to the trans in what I'm doing, is there?
Posted By: mattd

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/05/19 01:53 AM

No there is no harm, it’s just going to change the shift strategy. I too agree these trucks are far too expensive to cycle out all the time, hence the reason why I drive a 12 year old truck with 230k haha. Rot will be the killer of my truck it is in mechanically excellent condition.

If you get custom tunes you can fine tune the transmission changing shift feel as well as different shift Patterns as far as vehicle speed. It would fix the lugging issue without a doubt. Not sure how friendly your local ford dealer is with tuning/deletes and warranty work though.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/05/19 02:10 PM

This is my first diesel. I've been subscribed to Diesel Power magazine for years. I've always said I'm a diesel truck owner that hasn't bought the truck yet. My dad drove truck and I used to go with him as a kid. I used to love the sound of the engine and the smell of grease, diesel fuel and exhaust fumes. But anyways, my truck has sentimental value because I bought it when I sold the house I grew up in and could finally swing a new diesel pickup. I know my late father trucks with me when I drive it. He would have loved it.

I get my truck oiled every year. That salt is a killer of vehicles no doubt. When I owned my first Ford, an OBS 96 F350 351w 4x4, mechanics and friends couldn't believe how clean it was underneath. But that was oiled each year also. But I used to wash off the truck also a lot during winter when the roads dried up.

I bought an extended warranty for my truck, 7 year or 125k mile, thinking that would extend the emissions warranty. WRONG. I found out the emissions warranty only goes to 50k. What a kick in the b*lls. It is what it is. I really haven't discussed it yet with my dealer. I'm doing research now on deleting. Down the line, if start having any emissions related problems, I plan deleting. While I do like the truck as it is, stock, I wouldn't do it to add huge power or blow black smoke. Those coal rollers are idiots. They give all diesel truck owners a bad image. I would do it to gain engine reliability and hopefully gain some MPG.

What I would do is most likely a conservative tow tune to keep smoke to a minimum. I like to fly under the radar. I would keep the stock tailpipe as I like the look and it's stock so it won't draw any law enforcement attention.

I have looked at emissions on tuners. 5 Star Tuning and DP-Tuner. They both have A trans only tune in their tunes. I'm really curious about how the trans would feel with an aftermarket trans tune. I heard that a red flag pops up hidden in the ECM software if the engine makes more than stock power. So I keep going back and forth with the idea. They both get great reviews on another forum I belong to. There's no doubt that the factory trans tuning is lacking.
Posted By: DoubleWasp

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/05/19 02:17 PM

Honestly, the lame emissions warranties are my only real gripe with emissions. If they want you to run it for the life of the vehicle, warranty it as such, or at least make it affordable.

Most of the latest DPFs have almost no scrap value at all, so they have obviously figured out how to make them with little or not high ticket materials. So why still a bazillion dollars?

Gotten insane already.
Posted By: daved5150

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission - 03/06/19 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Honestly, the lame emissions warranties are my only real gripe with emissions. If they want you to run it for the life of the vehicle, warranty it as such, or at least make it affordable.

Most of the latest DPFs have almost no scrap value at all, so they have obviously figured out how to make them with little or not high ticket materials. So why still a bazillion dollars?

Gotten insane already.


I agree. You spend all this money on the truck, and the govt mandated equipment is not covered the same as the drivetrain. And the cost of replacement is crazy. I think the gov't should warranty it since they mandate it. JMHO. It'll never happen though.
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