Home

ATF drain and fill at 19K

Posted By: parshisa

ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:14 AM

Iíll be changing engine oil tomorrow and have 4qts of Honda ATF. Iím a bit uncertain if I should swap tranny fluid as well since Iím already there. Car (Honda Pilot) is at 19K currently and havenít had ATF changed yet. Level, color, shifts are all good. Should i wait another 5k perhaps or change it tomorrow? What would yíall do if you were in my shoes?
Posted By: rooflessVW

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:18 AM

I'd probably do it.
Posted By: Linctex

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:19 AM

Factory trans fill = follow the owner's manual

If you like, you could change it 25%-30% earlier than suggested.
Posted By: Warstud

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:19 AM

Since your still running the factory fill I would change it. And every 25k there after.
Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:22 AM

Do a drain and fill. The fluid itself may be in good shape, but there will be a fair amount of wear-in metals present, so flushing some of that out would be a good idea.

Consider catching some in a clean container to send off for analysis to see how things are doing and get a better idea of when to do the next drain and fill.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:32 AM

Thanks for the feedback folks. Do you guys have anything against filling up through the dip stick hole? Fill plug location on the new pilots is totally retarded and requires several components to be removed before i can get a socket on it...donít feelnlike doing it all...especially with the left foot in the cast
Posted By: Leo99

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:36 AM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Thanks for the feedback folks. Do you guys have anything against filling up through the dip stick hole? Fill plug location on the new pilots is totally retarded and requires several components to be removed before i can get a socket on it...donít feelnlike doing it all...especially with the left foot in the cast


Many trannys don't have a fill hole. Down the tube is the only way.
Posted By: CT8

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 03:00 AM

Clean oil is happy oil.
Posted By: gregk24

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 03:17 AM

Do it, I do a drain and fill on my Honda every other oil change, and it always responds well.
Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 03:20 AM

During the warranty period, I'd wait until the MM tells you to change it
Posted By: dishdude

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 03:33 AM

19k and every other oil change just seems way too often. It's a sealed system so it's not picking up dirt, and I'm not convinced metal shavings are an issue and will drain out. Metal shavings are more likely to stick to the pan and case than anything but are more likely to be picked up by the filter.
Posted By: maxdustington

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 03:50 AM

Originally Posted By: dishdude
19k and every other oil change just seems way too often. It's a sealed system so it's not picking up dirt, and I'm not convinced metal shavings are an issue and will drain out. Metal shavings are more likely to stick to the pan and case than anything but are more likely to be picked up by the filter.


If you run 10k OCIs then that's every 20k. That might be a little premature but If I had a brand new automatic trans I would try to keep the fluid as clean as I could.

The less ferrous debris that gets stuck to/inside the solenoids, the better.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 04:20 AM

Get it out as soon as you can. Clutch and gear wear in material is what contaminates the factory fill. I would do 3 consecutive D&Fs to get most of it out, not just one.
Posted By: KrisZ

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 04:24 AM

Here is a good post showing how each drain reduced the amount of contaminants cought by the magnet. Keep in mind that there are also non ferrous material from the clutch packs that the magnet will not pick up.
Odyssey drain and fill
Posted By: Hammehead

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 04:42 AM

Too soon. Iīd wait more 19k. At that mileage, if it looks clean, it is clean.
Posted By: zorobabel

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 05:23 AM

I would change it. If it was my car I would have changed it at 10k, or installed an ATF filter within the first month of ownership.
Posted By: The Critic

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:01 AM

On Honda V6s that are in warranty, I recommend a 3x drain and refill at 30K intervals. This is especially true for the 6ATs which seem to deteriorate fluid even more quickly than the 5ATs.

I assume you have the Honda 6AT and not the ZF 9-spd.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:56 AM

I'm from the change it early camp. I did the first pan drop and fluid exchange in my Liberty at 20K and my Rubicon at 10K.
Posted By: SteveSRT8

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:58 AM

While we go with a 30k mile interval here, a normal autobox creates far more debris when new than as it ages out. So sooner is not a bad thing.

We always drop the pan and change the filter the first time and then every other time. In between I like a complete fluid exchange.
Posted By: JeffKeryk

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 01:13 PM

Can't hurt. Personally, I would wait until 25K.
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'd probably do it.


I would . I did on our Chevy Sonic . Partly because the internal filter is not DIY accessible . And I wish to keep things as clean as possible .

I figure the most amount of wear material / particles will be producer early in the life of the transmission & wanted to get rid of as many of those as I could , as soon as I could .
Posted By: Schmoe

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:08 PM

19K on factory ATF, which is Honda DW-1, and you want to change it? Why??? You're wasting good money. Honda's ATF is good. I'd stick with what the MM or manual says. Everybody is so freaked out about Honda's AT's since they had a problem back between '98 and 02. They've improved massively since. I hardly hear about any AT problems since.
Posted By: Bud

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:09 PM

Just follow your owners manual and mm. Or of course you can try and out think Honda and pick from one of the many varied opinions here.
Posted By: dgunay

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:20 PM

Change it if it makes you feel better. It won't hurt.

I'd only use Honda DW-1 until the end of warranty, and use something else like Redline D6 afterwards. Honda's transmission fluids (including MTF) isn't as good as aftermarket options, they shear down really quick after 15-20k.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 02:44 PM

Did an engine oil/filter change this morning. As well as drain and fill on the transmission. Drained around 3.5qts and refilled with the same. Fluid DID NOT look nice and clear. It was more on the brown side so I'm glad I did drain it. Here is the picture of the bolt with mag particles build up on it. I'm seriously thinking of doing two more d&f once I get more fluids.
Posted By: bmwpowere36m3

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 03:29 PM

That's what the plug looked like on the GF's Civic with 100k miles on the AT fluid.
Posted By: DGXR

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 05:20 PM

I say it depends on how you drive the Honda and if you plan to keep it long-term. If it's in severe service, you already have the fluid so do the drain/fill now. If normal service, follow the owner's manual unless it says you never need to change the fluid. That's just ridiculous.

ATF does not expire or go bad in sealed bottles. But also I suggest you don't store it all summer in a 140* shed or warehouse.
Posted By: Hammehead

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Iíll be changing engine oil tomorrow and have 4qts of Honda ATF. Iím a bit uncertain if I should swap tranny fluid as well since Iím already there. Car (Honda Pilot) is at 19K currently and havenít had ATF changed yet. Level, color, shifts are all good. Should i wait another 5k perhaps or change it tomorrow? What would yíall do if you were in my shoes?


So, you Have Pic of the brown drained fluid?
Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Did an engine oil/filter change this morning. As well as drain and fill on the transmission. Drained around 3.5qts and refilled with the same. Fluid DID NOT look nice and clear.


You're seeing a lot of normal wear-in material in the fluid and on the magnet. That will decrease with subsequent changes. Most of the wear-in is already done, and each drain and fill will remove more of the contaminants left behind.
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 08:12 PM

A Honda V6 automatic should probably be changed as early as every 15k miles if it sees mostly city miles.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 08:41 PM

I actually do, it is sitting in my garage. will grab a pic later tonight
Posted By: CKN

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
19K on factory ATF, which is Honda DW-1, and you want to change it? Why??? You're wasting good money. Honda's ATF is good. I'd stick with what the MM or manual says. Everybody is so freaked out about Honda's AT's since they had a problem back between '98 and 02. They've improved massively since. I hardly hear about any AT problems since.



Yep-a waste of money. OR-what I commonly refer to as a BITOG "money flush".
Posted By: maxdustington

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:15 PM

I read a post once that claimed that most of the junk in the ATF fluid was created in the first 15000 miles. I guess this post points to that being true.

Atta boy, OP. Those pics are high octane OCD fuel for this board.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:33 PM

Here they are. I grabbed a sample when it was draining



Posted By: dishdude

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
19K on factory ATF, which is Honda DW-1, and you want to change it? Why??? You're wasting good money. Honda's ATF is good. I'd stick with what the MM or manual says. Everybody is so freaked out about Honda's AT's since they had a problem back between '98 and 02. They've improved massively since. I hardly hear about any AT problems since.



Yep-a waste of money. OR-what I commonly refer to as a BITOG "money flush".


I call it a wallet flush but I guess we're in the minority here. I'm not dumping out perfectly good fluid or buying a car that's so fragile it needs ATF changes constantly.

I used to do this stuff, but now know better thanks to this site.

Cheap insurance = throwing away money.
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 05/31/18 10:31 PM

Around here a transmission job is around $ 2,000 for a GM V-6 transmission .

I consider it cheap insurance . But you do as you think best .
Posted By: CKN

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Around here a transmission job is around $ 2,000 for a GM V-6 transmission .

I consider it cheap insurance . But you do as you think best .


I consider it drinking the "Kool Aid".


Visually-there is nothing wrong with the fluid according to the PICS the OP posted.
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 12:40 AM

Honda V6 automatics are tough on the atf for some reason. Honda techs on other forums have recommended a simple drain and fill for them as early as 15k miles with mostly city driving. This from a Honda forum that I used to frequent all the time. Complete different story for the 4 cyl models.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:05 AM

Replacing 30% of the fluid seems a bit weird to me to be honest. Is the concept with transmission fluid same as with oil or it is different? Do really these ďregreshesĒ work?
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:12 AM

It is what Honda recommends for their transmissions because of the many, small internal passages. It doesn't take much for a small piece of debris to block one of the passages. Which is why they don't recommend flushes. I had the dealer replace a rear main seal on my Accord. Afterwards it flared from 1st to second. Took it back and they did a drain/fill. Problem solved till I sold it 80k miles later and still was fine.
Posted By: VeryNoisyPoet

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:18 AM

Transmission fluid does not get contaminated nearly as fast as engine oil, since it does not get exposed to fuel or combustion gases. Instead it slowly accumulates metal particles from gears and other material from the clutch packs. The fluid will also slowly break down from thermal oxidation and shear.

Replacing 30% does a lot, since that means there is now 30% fresh fluid that has not been broken down, and 30% of the contaminants suspended in the system have been removed.

The reason only part of the fluid comes out is that a lot remains trapped in the torque converter and the rest of the hydraulic system up inside the transmission. The only way to get the majority out is by diluting it with multiple drain and fills or flushing the transmission, whether by using the internal pump, or an external flushing machine. Flushing machines have a bad reputation for being too harsh or forcing contaminants into bad places and causing transmission problems.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:35 AM

Great info here. Would you suggest two more drains and fills within few hundred miles or singlle ones at 10-15K will suffice?
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Replacing 30% of the fluid seems a bit weird to me to be honest. Is the concept with transmission fluid same as with oil or it is different? Do really these ďregreshesĒ work?


In my mind it is diluting the " bad stuff " with new clean " good stuff " .

Back in the day , some of the brands had a drain plug on the torque converter . You could get most of the old fluid out . Those days are long gone .
Posted By: hallstevenson

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:41 AM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Great info here. Would you suggest two more drains and fills within few hundred miles or singlle ones at 10-15K will suffice?


It probably depends on the mileage.... If you bought it new, you can feel confident doing a single drain-and-fill every 15k, 20k, 30k, etc. If you have never done a drain-and-fill and the mileage is 50k or higher, multiple drain-and-fills aren't a bad idea if it makes one feel better.
Posted By: SatinSilver

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:44 AM

It's not the atf that wears out but the additives in the fluid. So you replenish about 30% of the additives which is a good thing. I'd do one more drain/fill since the fluid was discolored. Then prob every 15k miles there after.
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:45 AM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Great info here. Would you suggest two more drains and fills within few hundred miles or singlle ones at 10-15K will suffice?


In my mink , I think it would depend on how " bad " the old fluid looks and how many miles on it .
Posted By: dgunay

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 04:49 AM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Great info here. Would you suggest two more drains and fills within few hundred miles or singlle ones at 10-15K will suffice?


Just change ATF every other oil change, it will always be clean.
Posted By: Egg_Head

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 11:11 AM

Assuming a total fluid capacity of 7.1 qts. (per AMSOIL chart) and the OP said he drained 3.5 qts., here is his transmission fluid drain/refill replacement ratio:

Change #1 49.30%
Change #2 74.29%
Change #3 86.96%
Change #4 93.39%
Change #5 96.65%
Change #6 98.30%
Change #7 99.14%
Change #8 99.56%
Change #9 99.78%
Change #10 99.89%
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:09 PM

Amsoil's chart is slightly off

Posted By: JustN89

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 01:27 PM

I would've (and did) the same. I understand why some people wouldn't do this, but why call this a "waste", "wallet flush" or whatever cute nickname you want to give it. Truth is, Honda's don't have the best of reputations when it comes to their automatic transmissions and I've never seen anything that points to their fluid as being anything other than serviceable. For every one post that claims DW-1 is a good fluid, I've seen handfuls of other posts that claim people have experienced increased performance by switching to Maxlife or Amsoil ATF. It's still anecdotal, but since there's no evidence going either way, it's probably good practice to keep intervals on DW-1 reasonable and consistent as long as you're going to stick with that fluid.
Posted By: Schmoe

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 02:23 PM

Increased performance based on what? Butt meter? The evidence is there: Look up Honda AT failures POST 2005.....http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/transmission-failure/
https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/
Honda knew they had problems from faulty parts from a subcontractor. They extended their goodwill program, I used it myself when my 02 V6 AT went out at 109K, all I had to pay was 500 dollars. Good luck getting other manufacturers to step up to the plate and admit the problem...ahem...Ford spitting spark plug 4.6 and 5.4 engines......Go to any dealership and ask the mechanics about how many transmission problems they work on lately. Those problem years with Honda's AT have stayed on the radar to read that they still persist to this day. Not true, total baloney . You think of the super small percentage of Honda owners here on BITOG compared to the actual number of Honda's on the road change out their AT fluid every 10-15K miles??? No way, but yet they are still on the road.
Posted By: JustN89

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Increased performance based on what? Butt meter? The evidence is there: Look up Honda AT failures POST 2005.....http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/transmission-failure/
https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/
Honda knew they had problems from faulty parts from a subcontractor. They extended their goodwill program, I used it myself when my 02 V6 AT went out at 109K, all I had to pay was 500 dollars. Good luck getting other manufacturers to step up to the plate and admit the problem...ahem...Ford spitting spark plug 4.6 and 5.4 engines......Go to any dealership and ask the mechanics about how many transmission problems they work on lately. Those problem years with Honda's AT have stayed on the radar to read that they still persist to this day. Not true, total baloney . You think of the super small percentage of Honda owners here on BITOG compared to the actual number of Honda's on the road change out their AT fluid every 10-15K miles??? No way, but yet they are still on the road.


Quote:
It's still anecdotal, but since there's no evidence going either way, it's probably good practice to keep intervals on DW-1 reasonable and consistent as long as you're going to stick with that fluid.


I don't have to go to "any dealership and ask". I worked at a Honda dealership for more than a year. You should look up the problems Honda's had with their 9 speed auto in the Pilot (Touring and Elite trim levels). DW-1 is a decent ATF and Honda autos can be solid, especially the 6 speed, but I would do regular drain and fills on my Honda auto, especially if I had the means and skills to do it myself and save some money in labor.

Also, it seems like you are, or at least used to be, an advocate for early ATF changes if this is to be believed.

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
All the boys at F150.net forums know that you GOT to change the ATF at least every 30K, unlike the manual that says 100K, if you expect the 4R70W to make it to 100K miles.
Posted By: Schmoe

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 04:06 PM

I was that for sure back then, but after being on here for a while and reading all the wonderous things how good oils don't need to be changed out that much, I've jumped to the dark side. However, I still believe that thicker oil is better!!!! On the F150, I got that setup with the 4R70W and the towing package option, and have yet come across transmission failures because of lack of ATF change frequency. I got over 90K on mine with factory fill and pulling a boat for umpteen years.
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 07:16 PM

Ordered another 4qts of transmission fluid and will do another d&f once it arrives. From then will stick with every other oil change transmission d&f. I still have a sample of the fluid i drained ready to be sent off for analysis. In case anyone is willing to contribute fto BITOG semi-scientific research database and finance this UOA - feel free to hit me up!!
Posted By: littleant

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/01/18 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Warstud
Since your still running the factory fill I would change it. And every 25k there after.
^^^ Perfect advice here. ^^^
Posted By: parshisa

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/09/18 08:30 PM

did another drain and fill this morning with 300mi after the first one. Liquid looked much better and very little on the magnet. Plan to do d&f every 15K from now on. What y'all think?
Posted By: Warstud

Re: ATF drain and fill at 19K - 06/09/18 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Plan to do d&f every 15K from now on. What y'all think?


That's Overkill.....15k with FF is about right. 25k-30k is about right with a Honda Auto Trans since there known to be "Not To Reliable".
© 2019 Bob Is The Oil Guy