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"MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc

Posted By: Linctex

"MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 03:20 PM

I like MolaKule's little mystery oil quizzes.

So here is one for y'all - - would you run this in your car or truck?

YES - it is an internal combustion engine oil - - - - Spark ignition, not diesel.

The application might surprise you a bit... or a LOT!

Zinc PPM and Phosphorus PPM don't mean everything in the world of "long engine life" - .
These engines run more hours before overhaul than ANY engine you will ever own.

Attached picture HDAX3200.jpg
Posted By: kschachn

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 03:31 PM

Absolutely not. I am incapable of determining if an oil is suitable for my vehicles based on a VOA or UOA, the only way I can determine that is by whether it carries the specification or approval required by the manufacturer.

I no longer work in a research laboratory, but if I did I bet I could produce a product that gives the same values as in your chart but would wreck you engine in under a minute. For me this is a good illustration of the problem of making an oil choice based on an analysis like that.
Posted By: Imp4

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by kschachn
Absolutely not. I am incapable of determining if an oil is suitable for my vehicles based on a VOA or UOA, the only way I can determine that is by whether it carries the specification or approval required by the manufacturer.

Hmmm, while you may be incapable of determining suitability, I think the OP's intent is for a good natured brain teaser and nothing more.

Having said that, I'll throw my hat in the ring.
The acid and base numbers appear awfully low, so that provides some hesitation. I'll say 'No' I wouldn't run this in a car or truck.
But there's probably a catch here somewhere that will justify doing so...
Posted By: Linctex

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by kschachn

I no longer work in a research laboratory, but if I did I bet I could produce a product that gives the same values as in your chart but would wreck you engine in under a minute. .


EXACTLY!!

People around here throw around statements like: "Buy Quaker State Ultimate Durability, it has the most Moly for engine protection!"

Or like: "Don't run the new CK rated oils in a Ford PowerStroke, they don't have enough Zinc and Phosphorus"

I'm waiting for comments like "There's NO WAY I would run that in any engine I own; it doesn't have hardly ANY Zinc and Phosphorus!!"
Posted By: Linctex

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Imp4
, I think the OP's intent is for a good natured brain teaser and nothing more....


You are 100% correct, sir
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 04:28 PM

While I agree with kschachn (can't believe I said that) that you can't make a determination on OA alone, but I think there's some generalities I can safely say about this lubricant. (if my understanding of stuff isn't all fubar'd)...

-for starters, the reference to "run more hours" leads me to believe this is a commercial engine like in a tractor or something and not a passenger car
-its low VI indicates it's 100% mineral
-its low VI would make it unsuitable for a pcmo where loads change frequently. (lower VI's are more suitable for static loads)
-its low BN would not make it suitable for long drain intervals..so fluid exchange is done on hrs ran
-i would think it's low Phos and Zinc means the oil isn't in service too long, so the levels don't need to be sky high to account for depletion, and maybe this is not a tight tolerance engine type where the oil film thickness is super thin (it's a sae30/40..so it can't be super tight tolerance where a thicker oil with bigger molecules can actually cause wear, can it??)

Ok, go ahead and shred me.. flame 🔥 suit on!
Posted By: dave1251

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 04:29 PM

It seems this uses organic compounds for antiwear such as ester.
Posted By: Linctex

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 04:51 PM

It is a stationary commercial engine, yes.

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

-its low BN would not make it suitable for long drain intervals..so fluid exchange is done on hrs ran


I have never seen the oil get changed in one.
I need to find a more "hands on tech" and ask what the OCI interval is - - - or if there even is one.

There's a device that adds oil from a bulk tank as needed to keep the sump capacity topped off.
Sump capacity is about 10 gallons, with three large oil filters.

Base number is only needed to fight condensation from starts and stops, correct?
These engines never get shut off.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 04:55 PM

Acids are produced during the combustion process.
Posted By: bullwinkle

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:29 PM

Is it for a 2-stroke diesel engine, like a Detroit or possibly a locomotive engine? They seem to really like low additive numbers due to the silver bearings.
Posted By: bullwinkle

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:32 PM

Oil value is all in the application-there are some awesome synthetic 2-stroke (gas) oils in the world, for racing snowmobiles or motocross, but I wouldn't put them in the sump of a diesel engine!
Posted By: bbhero

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:46 PM

First question is. would you mind this in your car or truck??

No...

Normal zinc and phos are no where near API SN limits. And that is not a good thing. Nor a expected finding if it was tested by say PQIA.

And yes that does matter... Whether you like it or not.....
Why do the PQIA test chart have a expected range for zinc and phos ??

But there is no expected range for say molybdenum ?? Nope. Neither for say titanium... Nope. No expected range for boron... No range for sodium...

So... One can state that in this particular scenario in regards to these two measurable elements... A very low reading clearly indicates something is not good for use in modern vehicles.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:47 PM

I'd guess it's a 2-stroke locomotive oil.
Posted By: Needleman

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:52 PM

Nat gas low ash
Posted By: Linctex

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Needleman
Nat gas low ash


DING DING DING!!!!
Posted By: Linctex

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 06:59 PM

It's Chevron HDAX 3200

I took the picture of the label next to a turbo Waukesha inline 6, at a natural gas pumping station.

I drive by it several times a day, I have *never* seen it "not running" confused ...for years now!!

Attached picture HDAX3200full.jpg
Attached picture NATURAL.GAS.ENGINE.jpg
Posted By: Linctex

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 07:01 PM

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/663/natural-gas-engine-lubrication
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/23/19 08:42 PM


Nicely done/nice find..I suspected it was some kind of stationary engine, I just had no idea what kind. The huge sump, low heat and low rpms explains why it doesn't need huge amounts of EP additives, no??.. and there's no fuel dilution and cleaner fuel burn (NG), so TAN should be low with these things right? (no need for high BN)
Posted By: Garak

Re: "MYSTERY Oil" - 320 ppm Zinc - 08/24/19 02:54 AM

These lubes aren't all that common any longer, either. Chevron and probably Petro-Canada are among the few I can think of that still make any.
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