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PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30

Posted By: wemay

PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 02:19 AM

http://pqiadata.org/Ravenol_DXG_5W30.html


Posted By: PimTac

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 02:28 AM

The presence of sodium plus higher calcium than other oils in this class make me wonder if this is suitable for combating LSPI.
Posted By: wemay

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 02:41 AM

I think the nice dose of Zinc and Moly would help.
Posted By: daves87rs

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By: wemay
I think the nice dose of Zinc and Moly would help.


+1
Posted By: PimTac

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 02:54 AM

So higher levels if zinc and moly compensate for the sodium and higher calcium?
Posted By: wemay

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 03:22 AM

Yes, in some SAE papers, this is dicussed. It's posted on bitog somewhere but I'm having difficulty finding it.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 04:44 AM

Low end hot viscosity, but Noack is nice and low.
Posted By: bbhero

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 05:12 AM

Yeah PimTac Wemay is right about that phenomenon.

I saw this test result yesterday and I was like holy cow shocked2

That is a great NOACK number. In old school Pennzoil Ultra territory.
Posted By: two4spooky

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 12:47 PM

This thread is a happy coincidence for me as I have 7 liters of DXG on the shelf about to be used. I was second guessing my choice because of lack of independent information on this oil, having only the RAVENOL data sheet to go by. Vehicle is a new 2018 4Runner. I am wanting to use a lite 5w-30 or possibly 0w-30. Per this PQIA test the DXG seems acceptable being even a little lighter than the RAVENOL data sheet claims.
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 12:53 PM

Originally Posted By: PimTac
The presence of sodium plus higher calcium than other oils in this class make me wonder if this is suitable for combating LSPI.

The latest version of this oil is dexos1 Gen 2, but I'd guess this is probably the older dexos1 version.
I was a bit surprised by the low viscosity at 100C, but it really wouldn't bother me as long as the HTHS is reasonable...I am also surpised that the PQIA looked at this oil at all, not exactly the dollar/convenience store Brand X stuff that consumers might have to watch out for.
Thanks to the OPer for sharing!

Looked it up, Ravenol says the HTHS is 3.1...one could argue that this is a good gas mileage oil given that the HTHS is pretty solid for SN/GF5 while the 100C (roughly normal operating temp) viscosity is low. The manufacturer also claims a still outstanding NOACK loss of 6% for the d1G2 version.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 12:59 PM

Extremely impressive Noack figure! thumbsup
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/04/18 02:21 PM

All, this is the dexos gen1 version, not gen2.
Posted By: wemay

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/05/18 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Extremely impressive Noack figure! thumbsup


Very nice
Posted By: BobFout

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/05/18 02:00 PM

This oil, like some other Ravenol oils, uses tungsten as an additional additive. It is also designed to mitigate LSPI.
Posted By: wemay

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/05/18 06:40 PM

Interesting, thanks. Do you know if the Tungsten is specially for that purpose?
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/06/18 12:30 AM

I just ordered a jug of this for my Fusion. Should be interesting to see a UOA since I've got 100k of UOAs on PP/PUP xW20s to compare it against. This is the first xW30 that has really caught my eye, picked up the 5L jug for $39.99!
Posted By: BobFout

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/06/18 05:21 AM

Originally Posted By: wemay
Interesting, thanks. Do you know if the Tungsten is specially for that purpose?


I should have made my post more clear. The only information I have is from Ravenol's product page on this oil. Tungsten is not specifically mentioned as being related to LSPI, it's just mentioned as one of the additives used.
Posted By: wemay

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/06/18 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: wemay
Interesting, thanks. Do you know if the Tungsten is specially for that purpose?


I should have made my post more clear. The only information I have is from Ravenol's product page on this oil. Tungsten is not specifically mentioned as being related to LSPI, it's just mentioned as one of the additives used.


Got it, thanks.
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/07/18 12:38 AM

Surprising how PQIA would pick an obsolete-spec oil. This is the old dexos1 Gen1 version, not the current Gen2 one.
Same mistake they made earlier this year when they even took an old-stock AC-Delco dexos1 Gen1 oil and tested it. Hasn't anyone told them that those aren't being produced anymore? http://pqiadata.org/ACDelco_0W20.html for the other mistake, note its GM's own Gen1 oil!

It is interesting that the old Ravenol DXG was high-Ca and high-Na, like our Valvoline was in Gen1. Valvoline was forced to drop the Na completely, and I predict Ravenol DXG dexos1 Gen2 will have almost no Na as well. Ravenol does make great oil, but if you want LSPI-resistant sauce, opt for the one in production right now....
Posted By: Garak

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/07/18 01:22 AM

PQIA does follow a chain of custody procedure in their testing. Note that this bottle was purchased almost three months ago. I'm sure I could still find dexos1 Generation 1 oils on the shelves here without too much trouble.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/07/18 03:35 PM

Just for comparison, here is the product sheet for the DXG from Ravenolís German page.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-dxg-sae-5w-30.html



I do wonder if the product that will be sold in the States will be the same as the German product?
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/07/18 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Garak
PQIA does follow a chain of custody procedure in their testing. Note that this bottle was purchased almost three months ago. I'm sure I could still find dexos1 Generation 1 oils on the shelves here without too much trouble.
Fine, true, yet what kind of future does an oil have that has already been out-of-production for 9 months? So PQIA gives us a VOA on an oil with no future. Real Brainiacs working over there at PQIA. They've done this twice now.
Posted By: Garak

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/07/18 10:54 PM

The PQIA is here to ensure that on oil on the shelf is nominally compliant with the API service category and that it falls within the viscosity norms of SAE J300 for the grade on the label. They are not in operation to provide free VOAs for BITOG entertainment, as much as we appreciate them. They're also not here to ensure dexos1 compliance. That's the job of General Motors.

From a PQIA perspective, this is fine. If Ravenol can make an SN/GF-5 dexos1 product, I'm sure the SN/GF-5 dexos1 Generation 2 product replacing it will still be SN/GF-5 compliant and within grade, which is PQIA's mandate. If you ask me, from a nitpicking standpoint, PQIA shouldn't be testing ANY dexos1 licensed products. Any officially licensed dexos1 product will already be well within SN/GF-5 and fall within grade, and GM took responsibility for policing this when they took on royalty fees.
Posted By: two4spooky

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/08/18 04:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Garak
PQIA does follow a chain of custody procedure in their testing. Note that this bottle was purchased almost three months ago. I'm sure I could still find dexos1 Generation 1 oils on the shelves here without too much trouble.
I would agree. I purchased the 7 liters(3 containers) I have less than three weeks ago online and received them less than two weeks ago. All 3 bottles have 2017 manufacture date and show Dexos1(original first generation) mark. I'm good with that. I think DXG will work well for my use, either Dexos1 or Dexos1 gen2. I would also think the differences in DXG formulation between meeting Dexos1 and Dexos1 gen2 would be slight. If I understand correctly, DXG's Dexos1(original first generation) approval expired 31.08.17(per Ravenol's web catalog) so would have to be renewed anyway.
Posted By: Garak

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/08/18 10:21 AM

I believe dexos1 Gen 1 is obsolete in any event. Whether the differences in Ravenol's formulation between Gen 1 and 2 are big or small, being an actual licensed product would mean it's going to be just fine.

Ravenol isn't in the position to be playing silly games given what it's trying to accomplish over the next couple years.
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/08/18 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Garak
Ravenol isn't in the position to be playing silly games given what it's trying to accomplish over the next couple years.


Curious, what is it?
Posted By: Garak

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/08/18 10:03 PM

They intend to become a full blown F1 petroleum supplier starting next season. That's some serious marketing and some serious R&D.
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/10/18 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: two4spooky
I would agree. I purchased the 7 liters(3 containers) I have less than three weeks ago online and received them less than two weeks ago. All 3 bottles have 2017 manufacture date and show Dexos1(original first generation) mark. I'm good with that. I think DXG will work well for my use, either Dexos1 or Dexos1 gen2. I would also think the differences in DXG formulation between meeting Dexos1 and Dexos1 gen2 would be slight. If I understand correctly, DXG's Dexos1(original first generation) approval expired 31.08.17(per Ravenol's web catalog) so would have to be renewed anyway.


The new old-stock (NOS) Ravenol DXG dexos1 Gen1 oil you got is fine for non-Turbo-GDI engines. Great stuff actually.
A lot of online retailers actually buy old left-over stock and sell it online. I really think they should divulge that, but thats an ethics issue some are not on-board with. Selling old oil is not generally any safety issue, like when TireRack has 4 year old overstock tires on sale, they divulge it right on the website, and that would be a bigger problem than old oil.

The Gen1 formula has too much calcium and sodium, which makes it a bad choice to pass the new dexos1 Gen2 LSPI tests, that's all. Not a problem for many engines out there. Of course the presence of at least some POE in the old Ravenol does help lower LSPI events, although probably not enough to overcome the Ca+Na problem.

You can bet the Ravenol DXG formula has changed, due to LSPI pressure alone.
Posted By: bigj_16

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/11/18 12:39 AM

The "offsetting" effect of the zinc and moly doesn't even come close to negating the LSPI causation effect of the calcium and sodium. LSPI is real, and calcium and sodium are major culprits. The way to negate LSPI is get rid of the sodium and calcium, not add zinc and moly. That is exactly what the oil manufacturers have done.
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/11/18 01:15 AM

So why is LSPI only seeming to be an issue on DIT engines in North America? Europe and the rest of the world don't seem to suffer LSPI and Euro/Australian formula oils that I've seen PDS or VOA/UOA for generally have much more calcium than Dexos or SN formulae?
Posted By: Brigadier

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/11/18 04:15 AM

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
So why is LSPI only seeming to be an issue on DIT engines in North America? Europe and the rest of the world don't seem to suffer LSPI and Euro/Australian formula oils that I've seen PDS or VOA/UOA for generally have much more calcium than Dexos or SN formulae?


Our gas has 10% ethanol? Transmission programs aimed at delayed downshifts for CAFE standards?
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/13/18 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Our gas has 10% ethanol? Transmission programs aimed at delayed downshifts for CAFE standards?


Brig, that was my point. Because of the clowns making emissions and CAFE requirements, the chemistries of the oils are having to change, and are very different than what has worked in the past. Europe has higher detergent levels to help better protect (I think most here at BITOG would run an A3/B4 oil long before an SN/Dexos oil if it met vehicle specs... because it is more robust.

Market demand should drive innovation and new technologies, not regulations and restrictions.
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/15/18 11:01 PM

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Our gas has 10% ethanol? Transmission programs aimed at delayed downshifts for CAFE standards?

Brig, that was my point. Because of the clowns making emissions and CAFE requirements, the chemistries of the oils are having to change, and are very different than what has worked in the past. Market demand should drive innovation and new technologies, not regulations and restrictions.


We'll mark you down as disliking clean air and conservation of resources. Ridiculous....
The oil is there to serve the needs of the engine and performance requirements, not the other way around.
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 06/16/18 05:13 AM

oil_film, would you not agree that Europe has a much higher population per square mile, in general, than the US? I would:
[img]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density#/media/File:Countries_by_population_density.svg[/img]

If things were like you said, Europe should have much worse smog, but I haven't seen any pictures lately of the Alps shrouded in a brown haze...
Posted By: Mainia

Re: PQIA: RAVENOL DXG FULLSYNTH 5W-30 - 10/25/18 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
oil_film, would you not agree that Europe has a much higher population per square mile, in general, than the US? I would:
[img]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density#/media/File:Countries_by_population_density.svg[/img]

If things were like you said, Europe should have much worse smog, but I haven't seen any pictures lately of the Alps shrouded in a brown haze...


Good point, and Old Movies you remember here in Minnesota when we completely wasted our tax payer money for automotive testing stations and 5 years later and unbelievable thing happened in our progressive state, "THEY" were pragmatic that the testing stations are a waste of money and closed them down. Thank God. There is still some hope for this extreme liberal state.
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