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High Ester based oils

Posted By: buster

High Ester based oils - 10/30/03 09:06 PM

Would it be accurate to say that RL, S2k, GC and D1 are the oils that contain a higher percentage of esters to PAO then other synthetic oils? [Smile]
Posted By: TooSlick

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/30/03 11:15 PM

Buster,

Price per quart is the best indicator of how much ester their potentially is. Stuff that sells for $3.00-$5.00/quart is largely PAO or Group III based. If you look at ester based two stroke oils, for example, they are more like $7.00-$9.00/quart.

Amsoil is primarily using very high quality PAO's for their basestocks - I have no idea about other companies ....The term "more ester" could mean 20% rather than 10%.

Ted
Posted By: cvl

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 01:42 AM

Motul makes some 100% ester basestock oils.
Posted By: Terry

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 02:14 PM

Buster,


Molakule has listed base oil levels by brand on this site in the past, please search it and post here if you would.

VP racing fuels motor oils are nearly 100 % Ester bases. Coconut oil is a part of the mix.

Castrol makes a RS 10w-50 that has a large ester component but is limited to certain markets.

Aside from Redline the others above contain much less than 40% ester bases.

The GC 0w-30 is a unknown unless someone wants to fork over about $400 for a GC burn to determine the oils used.

TD
Posted By: cvl

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 04:48 AM

Again, Motul has a few 100% ester oils.
Posted By: Jason8691

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 04:54 AM

Neo claims their oil is 100% diester based. I have a quart and am sending of a sample to Blackstone for a VOA this weekend.
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 05:08 AM

Laboratory grade (experimental grade) synthetic esters are running at $0.035/mL or $1.05/ounce.

In some cases I make my own esters with raw materials because it's cheaper and because purchased finished products are way too expensive for low volume production.


I think GC has some some esters, but no where near the level of Redline nor are they the same type. I think GC is using a relatively old formula that Pennzoil used some time ago:
1. Two synthetsized hydrocarbon oils - PAO's and alkylated naphthalenes/benzenes
2. Some 2-ethylhexyl adipate (di-ester)
3. Improved additive package

Pennzoils old synthetic formula was superb.

[ October 31, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Posted By: G-MAN

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 06:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
I think GC has some some esters, but no where near the level of Redline nor are they the same type. I think GC is using a relatively old formula that Pennzoil used some time ago:
1. Two synthetsized hydrocarbon oils - PAO's and alkylated naphthalenes/benzenes
2. Some 2-ethylhexyl adipate (di-ester)
3. Improved additive package

Pennzoils old synthetic formula was superb.

MK, what happened to your posted opinion that the German Syntec was mostly esters based on its specs and pour point? [Confused]
Posted By: MolaKule

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 06:24 AM

As I recall, (corect me if I am wrong) I said it did contain some esters, but they had to be diesters to get that low a PP.
Posted By: Ferrari

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 07:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cvl:
Motul makes some 100% ester basestock oils.

Yes it does, but Motul is so crappy when it comes to giving out oil specs and answering customers' questions that these oils are largely ignored in NA.
Posted By: unDummy

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 07:24 AM

Like Castrol isn't crappy about oil specs [I dont know]

The only oil specs needed are UOAs vs the VOAs.

Why people constantly email/annoy/harass oil companies for info that is internal/proprietary/secret is beyond me.

Availability is the only reason why I use certain oils. Get some of these "boutique" oils in local stores and I'll buy.
Posted By: Primus

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 09:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
In some cases I make my own esters with raw materials because it's cheaper and because purchased finished products are way too expensive for low volume production.

Need partners to create the company and start commercial production ? I'm ready. Anybody else ?
The offer is valid until Monday, then all others just shareholders !

quote:
I think GC has some some esters, but no where near the level of Redline nor are they the same type. I think GC is using a relatively old formula that Pennzoil used some time ago:
1. Two synthetsized hydrocarbon oils - PAO's and alkylated naphthalenes/benzenes
2. Some 2-ethylhexyl adipate (di-ester)
3. Improved additive package

For such thoughts about M1 SS and GC some guys almost excommunicated me from our BITOG church !

Hope you have some info on Motul 300V and would help with the following questions:

1). What can be the reason of quite low Flash Point (COC) and Shear Stability Index of 300V ? The use of some "cheap" esters ? Interesting that according to CEC L-14-A-93 test 300V oils are less shear stable then 8100 or 6100, but the real engine tests show completely different picture.

2). Why do esters oils (namely Motul) usually exibit 1.5 times higher corrosivity then PAO and 2.0 times higher then mineral oils ?

................... 300V 15W-50 ... 10W-40 ... 8100 0W-40 ... 6100 5W-40
Shear stability ......... 4,3 % ..... 8,5 % ....... 1,5 % ........... 1,8 %
HT/HS .................... 5,4 ........ 3,93 ......... 3,66 ............. 3,57
NOACK .................... 8,3 ........ 6,0 ........... 9,8 .............. 11,1
Flash point .............. 218 ........ 236 .......... 226 .............. 228

0W-40 : Esters + some amount of PAO.
5W-40 : PAO + some amount of gr.III & Esters

It's also difficult to understand what Motul has changed in formulations and why, but until 2000-2002 Flash Points and NOACK were different:

15W-50 232 and 4,0 %
10W-40 218 and 6,5 %

The density of oils have been changed too.

TYI.
Posted By: tenderloin

Re: High Ester based oils - 10/31/03 11:48 AM

Torcos racing line (SR-5 $10 per qt.) and new SL rated line (SR-1 $5 per qt.)are Group lV and V. Per Torco they do not consider Group lll as true synthetics

[ October 31, 2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
Posted By: sprintman

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/01/03 06:00 PM

Terry will you have more info on the VP oils soon? I will be testing their new RS-7 two stroke oil in a kart engine in about a month when VP Oz have it. VP say it's the best two stroke available period and I see US Rotax series already picked it up as the oil of choice.
Posted By: Last_Z

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/02/03 09:40 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Terry:
Buster,


Molakule has listed base oil levels by brand on this site in the past, please search it and post here if you would.

VP racing fuels motor oils are nearly 100 % Ester bases. Coconut oil is a part of the mix.

Castrol makes a RS 10w-50 that has a large ester component but is limited to certain markets.

Aside from Redline the others above contain much less than 40% ester bases.

The GC 0w-30 is a unknown unless someone wants to fork over about $400 for a GC burn to determine the oils used.

TD

I'd be willing to send a small amount of money along with other members to do testing like this.
Anyone wanna jump in?
Rick
Posted By: Patman

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/02/03 10:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Last_Z:
quote:
Originally posted by Terry:
Buster,


Molakule has listed base oil levels by brand on this site in the past, please search it and post here if you would.

VP racing fuels motor oils are nearly 100 % Ester bases. Coconut oil is a part of the mix.

Castrol makes a RS 10w-50 that has a large ester component but is limited to certain markets.

Aside from Redline the others above contain much less than 40% ester bases.

The GC 0w-30 is a unknown unless someone wants to fork over about $400 for a GC burn to determine the oils used.

TD

I'd be willing to send a small amount of money along with other members to do testing like this.
Anyone wanna jump in?
Rick

I'm willing to chip in a few bucks!
Posted By: Last_Z

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/02/03 02:34 PM

Pat,
Let's do it....let's create some sort of treasury....we can post the names of the people who have donated money so they know their money is there.
It would be nice to see exactly what makes up this GC stuff among others....so let's do it!
Posted By: Patman

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/02/03 07:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Last_Z:
Pat,
Let's do it....let's create some sort of treasury....we can post the names of the people who have donated money so they know their money is there.
It would be nice to see exactly what makes up this GC stuff among others....so let's do it!

The best way to do this would be to Paypal Terry the money directly so he could get the tests done. So before we start doing this, we need to get a show of hands as to who exactly will contribute, and once we have a final number we can figure out how much $$$ to send in. If only 5 people decide to get in, the costs will be too high, but if 20 people agree, or even better, 40, then the cost is very low per person.
Posted By: sbc350gearhead

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/02/03 10:20 PM

I'm game. [Big Grin]
Posted By: Last_Z

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/03/03 12:10 PM

Come on people.....this is a good cause.....3 so far....we need 37 more!
Posted By: Tim_Z

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/03/03 07:51 PM

I would be in for $10. Then information would be nice to know, whether or not I use it.

Tim
Posted By: sbc350gearhead

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/04/03 07:42 AM

Patman needs to start a separate post to find the donors needed. Many people won't look at this thread.
Posted By: Patman

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/04/03 07:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
Patman needs to start a separate post to find the donors needed. Many people won't look at this thread.

I can definitely do that, but which section should we put it in, here or in VOA? I could make it a sticky thread too so it sticks to the top. I'll let you guys mull this one over, and when I get home from work (and after I eat dinner and stuff) I'll make the thread then.
Posted By: Patman

Re: High Ester based oils - 11/04/03 11:12 AM

Here is the thread:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000155


Respond in there if you wish to contribute to getting the indepth VOA on GC 0w30!
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