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-40 Celsius and 5w30

Posted By: apollo18

-40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:48 AM

Hello so this winter here in edmonton I was thinking of trying a 0w30 rather then a 5w30 but the gm dealership only had there 5w30 full synthetic and said that’s what they use for every vehicle year round. I guess this winter is colder then the past and it’s currently -36 outside without windchill and later in the week we going to be hitting -40 Celsius to -38 Celsius without wind chill. I always plug the block heater In and I hope it’s actuallt working but lately the truck has started fine when I remote start it. I was wondering if I made a big mistake going the 5w30 router rather then
0w30? Or Is the difference not that signification/only matters more at colder temps?

Thx
Posted By: Char Baby

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 08:17 AM

I believe the fact that you have a synthetic 5W30 is the key as synthetic can still flow when it's even colder outside. Maybe even closer to -50 C. so I think you're fine and your dealership is confident. And my thinking is, what did we do before 0W oils?
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 08:33 AM

You said you have a block heater so I wouldn't worry about it but fwiw your truck will still start up but might turnover a bit slower at that low temp. You may not even notice it. I'd be more worried about my battery than the oil (a 5wX).

Originally Posted by Char Baby
And my thinking is, what did we do before 0W oils?

We stayed home and drank..😂
Posted By: dave1251

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 08:36 AM

The fact you are using a synthetic is the biggest factor supporting you. About 40 years ago your options would be limited to a 10W30 group I and engines started and ran fine.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 08:37 AM

-40, I'd personally got for the 0W.

That being said, the limit for the CCS and MRV for dexos are just over half the allowable, which should make a synthetic pretty close to a 0W (doubling of CCS/MRV per 5C).

A qualified oil is allowed to slip a grade in service, which should be moot with a proper synthetic...

You'll be fine, I'm sure...Iwould prefer 0W 'though.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Char Baby
I believe the fact that you have a synthetic 5W30 is the key as synthetic can still flow when it's even colder outside. Maybe even closer to -50 C. so I think you're fine and your dealership is confident. And my thinking is, what did we do before 0W oils?

That depends on pour point. Not all synthetics are created equal. Group III base stocks are not going to perform as well as Group IV, V or GTL. Many 5W30 oils have pour point around -40. For example Mobil1 5W30 Extended Performance has -42c bcs. it has healthy does of PAO base stocks. Many ILSAC GF-5 oils however will have higher pour point, somewhere around -38, -39c.
In Edmonton? I would run 0W30 all the time.
Posted By: OilUzer

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 10:14 AM

I am a thickie but during -40° winter and if I request 0W30, I wouldn't complain if 0W20 accidentally went in any of my newer cars shocked2 I would complain however if 5W went in by mistake!

btw, I would try to use block heater as much as possible plus 0W ...
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by OilUzer
I am a thickie but during -40° winter and if I request 0W30, I wouldn't complain if 0W20 accidentally went in any of my newer cars shocked2 I would complain however if 5W went in by mistake!

If vehicle is specifying ILSAC GF-5 oils, than probably 0W20 might be good option.
Not sure what vehicle we are talking about?
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 10:34 AM

I'd run a 0W-xx oil.
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 11:26 AM

You will be fine with the block heater and even if you have to do a cold start at work or somewhere else it will still start. However, for next winter I would suggest you try a 0w30 as they are now more commonly available. I have Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 in my Burb. There is a whole selection of 0w30s out there to chose from. You can use one of those infrared laser heat guns to check if your block heater is working or simply put you hand on a valve cover to feel for the warmth. smile
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Shannow
-40, I'd personally got for the 0W.

That being said, the limit for the CCS and MRV for dexos are just over half the allowable, which should make a synthetic pretty close to a 0W (doubling of CCS/MRV per 5C).

A qualified oil is allowed to slip a grade in service, which should be moot with a proper synthetic...

You'll be fine, I'm sure...Iwould prefer 0W 'though.


This. Completely correct. But I had to pause because the Aussie is telling a guy from Edmonton how to start a car in -40 weather. Shannow is a man of many talents. smile
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 01:23 PM

I think that all that can be said for sure is that a 0W30 is going to give you a better shot to start in an extreme cold condition than a 5W30 with the same mileage/usage.
With a block heater, assuming that it is working, 0W vs. 5W isn't going to make a difference.
If the power goes out or your block heater fails, you might be fine in your conditions with a 5W30...but a 0W30 is a better percentage play.
As somebody else mentioned above, your battery condition is probably even more important than your oil choice!
Good luck!
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by Shannow
-40, I'd personally got for the 0W.
That being said, the limit for the CCS and MRV for dexos are just over half the allowable, which should make a synthetic pretty close to a 0W (doubling of CCS/MRV per 5C).
A qualified oil is allowed to slip a grade in service, which should be moot with a proper synthetic...
You'll be fine, I'm sure...Iwould prefer 0W 'though.

This. Completely correct. But I had to pause because the Aussie is telling a guy from Edmonton how to start a car in -40 weather. Shannow is a man of many talents. smile

Going totally off topic here, but, have you been affected by the wildfires, Shannow?
Heartbreaking to see the pics on the news here in the US...
Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
You said you have a block heater so I wouldn't worry about it but fwiw your truck will still start up but might turnover a bit slower at that low temp. You may not even notice it. I'd be more worried about my battery than the oil (a 5wX).

Originally Posted by Char Baby
And my thinking is, what did we do before 0W oils?

We stayed home and drank..😂



Oh my Goodness another male bonding event that has gone by????
Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by dave1251
The fact you are using a synthetic is the biggest factor supporting you. About 40 years ago your options would be limited to a 10W30 group I and engines started and ran fine.


I missed school a couple times the old '65 buick didn't turn over.

I think I had Esso gold 10W30 or Sinclair in there.

I think you are forgetting that cars use to be hard to start in the extreme cold.

But maybe you didn't live in a cold area in the 60's and 70's
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 04:25 PM

It's -36c here at the moment. I'm pretty happy that I went with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in my truck right now. I don't have a plugin outside the house at the moment and haven't been able to use the block heater or the battery blanket at all. The crank time before starting is marginally longer than when it's close to 0c and I'm surprised to say the least.

As others have mentioned not all synthetics are created equal. Some do have better cold flow characteristics than others, but we are light years ahead of the days where 10w30 conventional was the norm. From the limited amount of information I was able to gather on cold flow properties, Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum were near the best.
Posted By: geeman789

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 04:48 PM

Like this ... ? Not a good day for all the 15w40 truck boys ...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: geeman789

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by nlife


It's -36c here at the moment ... I don't have a plugin outside the house at the moment and haven't been able to use the block heater or the battery blanket at all.



A battery at -36*c has roughly 20 % of its power. And your engine can be twice as hard to turn over as the oil thickens exponentially at these temps. The battery is what will fail. At these temps, an 0w oil can be the difference between the battery having just enough juice to start the engine, or not. And, you often get ONE CHANCE ONLY at getting it started before the battery dies.

If I had to pick one, it would be a battery blanket.
Posted By: benjy

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 05:56 PM

the cold oil spec is tested @ 40C thats 104 FAHRENHEIT!!!! from there everything is downhill! on machinery lubrication it showed how much THICKER an oil gets from there + it notes REAL synthetic PAO + Ester oils thicken a LOT less, so open your wallet + buy Redline or similar for faster flow that protects critical parts needing lubrication, of course other things help as well in some instances + locations.
Posted By: WyrTwister

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by apollo18
Hello so this winter here in edmonton I was thinking of trying a 0w30 rather then a 5w30 but the gm dealership only had there 5w30 full synthetic and said that’s what they use for every vehicle year round. I guess this winter is colder then the past and it’s currently -36 outside without windchill and later in the week we going to be hitting -40 Celsius to -38 Celsius without wind chill. I always plug the block heater In and I hope it’s actuallt working but lately the truck has started fine when I remote start it. I was wondering if I made a big mistake going the 5w30 router rather then
0w30? Or Is the difference not that signification/only matters more at colder temps?

Thx


Be sure you have a GOOD battery . Yes , wire up a timer to feed the block heater . Hopefully , the vehicle will be nice and warm when you drive off , and the heater is working well .

Best of luck to you ! :-)

Would not trade location with you for all the tea in China . High yesterday was 70F , here . :-)
Posted By: PimTac

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by benjy
the cold oil spec is tested @ 40C thats 104 FAHRENHEIT!!!! from there everything is downhill! on machinery lubrication it showed how much THICKER an oil gets from there + it notes REAL synthetic PAO + Ester oils thicken a LOT less, so open your wallet + buy Redline or similar for faster flow that protects critical parts needing lubrication, of course other things help as well in some instances + locations.




More hogwash.
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by nlife


It's -36c here at the moment ... I don't have a plugin outside the house at the moment and haven't been able to use the block heater or the battery blanket at all.



A battery at -36*c has roughly 20 % of its power. And your engine can be twice as hard to turn over as the oil thickens exponentially at these temps. The battery is what will fail. At these temps, an 0w oil can be the difference between the battery having just enough juice to start the engine, or not. And, you often get ONE CHANCE ONLY at getting it started before the battery dies.

If I had to pick one, it would be a battery blanket.



I won't argue any of what you said. I have the truck going in for the 24,000 km service this Thursday. It's a 2018 that I bought new this summer and I've already flagged the battery as a potential issue with the dealer since I had a few charging faults pop up in the fall. Regardless of the dealer does, it appears as though the weather has decided that it wants to test the battery.

I did buy a porch light fixture that has a plug in on it, but I haven't installed it yet. Likely install it this Saturday when it warms up a tad. Then I'll be able to see how the battery blanket and block heater work as they came with the truck.
Posted By: RamFan

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I have Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 in my Burb. There is a whole selection of 0w30s out there to chose from.



PP Euro LX is a great oil, probably one of the “better “ 0w-30 oils out there. BUT, cold flow is one of its shortcomings. It’s one of the thicker 0w-30s out there, nearing w40 territory.

Ravenol or M1 offer thinner 0w-30 options if that is the objective.
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by benjy
the cold oil spec is tested @ 40C thats 104 FAHRENHEIT!!!! from there everything is downhill! on machinery lubrication it showed how much THICKER an oil gets from there + it notes REAL synthetic PAO + Ester oils thicken a LOT less, so open your wallet + buy Redline or similar for faster flow that protects critical parts needing lubrication, of course other things help as well in some instances + locations.


Cold Cranking Simulator


Quote
Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS)

Please note we do not manufacture or sell testing equipment. We use the CCS to help validate our products and provide our customers with data.
What is it?

The Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) measures the apparent viscosity of oils at temperatures from –35°C to –5°C. It is a high shear method and is designed to simulate the oil viscosity under cold starting (cranking) conditions. The test method used is ASTM D5293.

Why do we use it?

The low temperature cranking viscosity is one of the four basic viscosity measurements in SAE J300 which defines the rules around engine oil viscosity grades. It is necessary to measure the CCS value of every formulated engine oil in order to check that it is within the viscosity grade.

How does it work?

The CCS contains a temperature controlled (glycol cooled) pot test chamber. The motor controlled stator is housed within the chamber. The CCS uses a vacuum pump to inject the test sample into the test chamber, where it is cooled to the required test temperature. A motor stator with a constant current is started. The resistance of the stator in the sample at the test temperature is converted into viscosity in mPa.s.

CCS Test Limits in SAE J300:

SAE Viscosity Grade : CCS (mPa.s)

0W : 6200 @ -35ºC
5W : 6600 @ -30ºC
10W : 7000 @ -25ºC
15W : [email protected] -20ºC
20W : 9500 @ -15ºC
25W : 13000 @ -10ºC
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by benjy
the cold oil spec is tested @ 40C thats 104 FAHRENHEIT!!!! from there everything is downhill! on machinery lubrication it showed how much THICKER an oil gets from there + it notes REAL synthetic PAO + Ester oils thicken a LOT less, so open your wallet + buy Redline or similar for faster flow that protects critical parts needing lubrication, of course other things help as well in some instances + locations.




More hogwash.

I'm not even sure what he's saying...😂
Posted By: OilUzer

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:41 PM

Regarding the title: -40 Celsius and 5W30

another secret some may not know but I share it with fellow bitogers. I have a scientist co-worker who told me that ALL engine oils (syn or EVEN dino), perform exactly the same @ -40°F vs. -40°C shocked2 crzy
I think it has to do with oil molecular structure but I am not a chemist. grin2
Posted By: kschachn

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Regarding the title: -40 Celsius and 5W30

another secret some may not know but I share it with fellow bitogers. I have a scientist co-worker who told me that ALL engine oils (syn or EVEN dino), perform exactly the same @ -40°F vs. -40°C shocked2 crzy
I think it has to do with oil molecular structure but I am not a chemist. grin2

Sort of smile

They all don't all perform the same, but they all perform the same at -40F as they do at -40C.
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Regarding the title: -40 Celsius and 5W30

another secret some may not know but I share it with fellow bitogers. I have a scientist co-worker who told me that ALL engine oils (syn or EVEN dino), perform exactly the same @ -40°F vs. -40°C shocked2 crzy
I think it has to do with oil molecular structure but I am not a chemist. grin2

Yes but when you're south of the equator like in Australia... it'll kill ya, because everything in Aus' wants to kill ya...even oil.😂
Posted By: kschachn

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Yes but when you're south of the equator like in Australia... it'll kill ya, because everything in Aus' wants to kill ya...even oil.😂

Do you have to tip the bottle the opposite way down there?
Posted By: Passport1

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 09:07 PM

Let's see, 77f or about 25c for those north of the border here right now. 5W-30 is perfect.
Posted By: geeman789

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by OilUzer


... I have a scientist co-worker who told me that ALL engine oils (syn or EVEN dino), perform exactly the same @ -40°F vs. -40°C



Unfortunately, we may get to test that theory tonight ... the second number is windchill, in Celsius, which at these temps, is about the same as Fahrenheit.

Have mercy ...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Yes but when you're south of the equator like in Australia... it'll kill ya, because everything in Aus' wants to kill ya...even oil.😂

Do you have to tip the bottle the opposite way down there?

From what I'm told yes.. crazy thing Australia is!😂
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/14/20 10:23 PM

They're calling for -34 to -36c for my area tonight. Come Saturday morning it's predicted to be downright balmy at -2c. May have to get out the sandals and shorts!
Posted By: userfriendly

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 05:16 AM

I just arrived in Hinton 30 minutes ago. It's a balmy -36C. It was down to -40 through Jasper Park.
The 6L 2017 GMC I drove up here in has 5W30 Dexos fast lube whatever.
I'm quite sure I put 5W40 in the 6L pulp mill truck that I use when I'm up here. Neither have block heaters and sit out all night.
I brought some 5W30 Mobil with me to do an oil change.
0W40 M-1 Euro blend is always my 1st choice.
I'll check Cambodian Tire and Wal*Mart for 0Wxx tomorrow.
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I have Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 in my Burb. There is a whole selection of 0w30s out there to chose from.



PP Euro LX is a great oil, probably one of the “better “ 0w-30 oils out there. BUT, cold flow is one of its shortcomings. It’s one of the thicker 0w-30s out there, nearing w40 territory.

Ravenol or M1 offer thinner 0w-30 options if that is the objective.


Yes, agree. Since the Burb has 200,000 miles I decided to run a slightly thicker oil, and just get a lower CCS number by going to 0w instead of 5W.
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 05:48 AM

These temps are in Celsius. We usually set the night time temp to 18 then the house temp slowly coasts down to 18 by 2:00 AM. With a -16 temp and strong wind, it hit 18 by 10:30 PM. Going to burn some propane tonight. Calgary has it cold at -34 C.

Attached picture 11864283-30E2-4A89-A196-5A045E457EA4.jpeg
Posted By: userfriendly

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 06:11 AM

I lived in Cranbrook for a year. The Tamarack Mall was opened, Elvis died and a 737 hit a snowplow at the Kimberly airport.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I have Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 in my Burb. There is a whole selection of 0w30s out there to chose from.



PP Euro LX is a great oil, probably one of the “better “ 0w-30 oils out there. BUT, cold flow is one of its shortcomings. It’s one of the thicker 0w-30s out there, nearing w40 territory.

Ravenol or M1 offer thinner 0w-30 options if that is the objective.

Ok, I want to hear this:
What 0W has to do with W40? Or what KV100 of LX0W30 has to do with cold flow?
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I have Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 in my Burb. There is a whole selection of 0w30s out there to chose from.



PP Euro LX is a great oil, probably one of the “better “ 0w-30 oils out there. BUT, cold flow is one of its shortcomings. It’s one of the thicker 0w-30s out there, nearing w40 territory.

Ravenol or M1 offer thinner 0w-30 options if that is the objective.

Ok, I want to hear this:
What 0W has to do with W40? Or what KV100 of LX0W30 has to do with cold flow?


Hi fellows. I can solve this. Here is the PDS for Pennzoil Euro LX 0W30. The CCS Viscosity is 5800 at -35 C which is an excellent cold flowing oil. Even I did not realize this at first.

Attached picture Pennzoil Euro SDS 0w30.PNG
Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:00 PM

Those are usually majority PAO base blend - so there you go.

Welcome to the REAL synthetic, high performance arena again.

Me I'm not going outside or driving anywhere if its colder than -15F/-26C

Its going to be -15C in a coupe days in the N.E. USA with another Arctic blast.
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:00 PM

And here is the Mobil SDS for 0w30. They didn't say what the CCS Viscosity was. Their MRV Viscosity was a bit lower but what the hey, let's look at pour point. -51 vs -50 for a Pennzoil win.

Attached picture Mobil 0w30 SDS.PNG
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:05 PM

It's currently -33 F in Edmonton, a city of over a million people. That's a lot of block heaters. laugh
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
And here is the Mobil SDS for 0w30. They didn't say what the CCS Viscosity was. Their MRV Viscosity was a bit lower but what the hey, let's look at pour point. -51 vs -50 for a Pennzoil win.

We know the M1's CCS viscosity had to be 6200 cP or less at -35C since it is a 0WXX...even right at 6200 it's less than 7% higher that the LX result.
Based on comments by Shannow, the lower MRV result for the M1 suggests that it has less pour point depressant than the LX unless its CCS viscosity is much lower than 5800. Shannow suggested the the ratio of MRV to CCS viscosity would be 2 for an oil with no PPD.
Multiple discussions on here have established that pour point has little to do with getting a car started in the cold. We see plenty of 5W30s with super low pour points, but they are still 5Ws and will not outperform a 0W in extremely cold conditions.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
It's currently -33 F in Edmonton, a city of over a million people. That's a lot of block heaters. laugh





Good thing they have plenty of solar and wind power generation. 😂😂
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
And here is the Mobil SDS for 0w30. They didn't say what the CCS Viscosity was. Their MRV Viscosity was a bit lower but what the hey, let's look at pour point. -51 vs -50 for a Pennzoil win.

We know the M1's CCS viscosity had to be 6200 cP or less at -35C since it is a 0WXX...even right at 6200 it's less than 7% higher that the LX result.
Based on comments by Shannow, the lower MRV result for the M1 suggests that it has less pour point depressant than the LX unless its CCS viscosity is much lower than 5800. Shannow suggested the the ratio of MRV to CCS viscosity would be 2 for an oil with no PPD.
Multiple discussions on here have established that pour point has little to do with getting a car started in the cold. We see plenty of 5W30s with super low pour points, but they are still 5Ws and will not outperform a 0W in extremely cold conditions.
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 03:51 PM

Yep, pour point was a “what the hey comment”. CCS rules for the real life experience. The guys in Edmonton will experience that tonight as it is going to -37 F.
Posted By: Jackson_Slugger

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 04:16 PM

The older, pre-Dexos GM manuals tended to call for either 0W-30 or synthetic 5W-30 in colder conditions. I.E I think it was -20F/-29C. I am surprised they don't offer a 0W-30 syn though...
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
And here is the Mobil SDS for 0w30. They didn't say what the CCS Viscosity was. Their MRV Viscosity was a bit lower but what the hey, let's look at pour point. -51 vs -50 for a Pennzoil win.



Pour point is irrelevant, I'm surprised at the difference in MRV (pumpability) however.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
It's currently -33 F in Edmonton, a city of over a million people. That's a lot of block heaters. laugh





Good thing they have plenty of solar and wind power generation. 😂😂


LMAO!!!

This was Alberta yesterday. Wind was completely AWOL:
[Linked Image]

This was also the case, all the way across the other end of the country, in coastal Nova Scotia:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 04:31 PM

When I was looking up numbers for 5w30 oils for my G2 3.5L Ecoboost from UOA/VOA I found some on CCS and MRV.

CCS -30c
  • Quaker S UD 3800
  • AmsOil SS 3968
  • PUPP 4000
  • PPPP 4480
  • Castrol Edge 5800
  • Valvoline Full SYN 6000
  • Ford Motorcraft SynBlend 6191


Not everyone lists the CCS and the numbers are drastically higher when you drop to -35c.
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
It's currently -33 F in Edmonton, a city of over a million people. That's a lot of block heaters. laugh





Good thing they have plenty of solar and wind power generation. 😂😂


LMAO!!!

This was Alberta yesterday. Wind was completely AWOL...



Way to drop the ball WIND POWER! LOL
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by nlife
When I was looking up numbers for 5w30 oils for my G2 3.5L Ecoboost from UOA/VOA I found some on CCS and MRV.

CCS -30c
  • Quaker S UD 3800
  • AmsOil SS 3968
  • PUPP 4000
  • PPPP 4480
  • Castrol Edge 5800
  • Valvoline Full SYN 6000
  • Ford Motorcraft SynBlend 6191


Not everyone lists the CCS and the numbers are drastically higher when you drop to -35c.


CCS and MRV roughly double/halve for every 5C increment. CCS is typically why a 5w-30 is a 5w-30 and not a 0w-30.
Posted By: gfh77665

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:20 PM

"Good thing they have plenty of solar and wind power generation."..?

"Carbon intensity in the last 24 hours"...?

POLITICS.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by gfh77665
"Carbon intensity in the last 24 hours"...?

POLITICS.


Emissions intensity isn't political LOL
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
And here is the Mobil SDS for 0w30. They didn't say what the CCS Viscosity was. Their MRV Viscosity was a bit lower but what the hey, let's look at pour point. -51 vs -50 for a Pennzoil win.



Pour point is irrelevant, I'm surprised at the difference in MRV (pumpability) however.

Pour point is irrelevant until we talk -40 and lower.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:34 PM

I guess if you can’t pour the oil into your oil burning engine then pour point matters.

It’s not relevant for what happens inside the motor.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
I guess if you can’t pour the oil into your oil burning engine then pour point matters.

It’s not relevant for what happens inside the motor.

I understand gravity measurement, but at that temperature that is only measurement we have among these oils.
Posted By: OVERKILL

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
I guess if you can’t pour the oil into your oil burning engine then pour point matters.

It’s not relevant for what happens inside the motor.

I understand gravity measurement, but at that temperature that is only measurement we have among these oils.


-5W measured at -45C and -40C respectively? LOL!!
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
I guess if you can’t pour the oil into your oil burning engine then pour point matters.

It’s not relevant for what happens inside the motor.

I understand gravity measurement, but at that temperature that is only measurement we have among these oils.


-5W measured at -45C and -40C respectively? LOL!!

OK, you got me here. LOL
Posted By: PimTac

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 10:58 PM

At those kinds of temps and even before that it just makes good sense to take proactive measures like a block or pan heater along with other actions.
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Yep, pour point was a “what the hey comment”. CCS rules for the real life experience. The guys in Edmonton will experience that tonight as it is going to -37 F.

I actually enjoy a cold winter, but I'm glad that this air mass is not quite going to make it into New England.
Too warm here lately, but I know the wind chills are going way down soon (but nothing like Edmonton).
Posted By: nlife

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
At those kinds of temps and even before that it just makes good sense to take proactive measures like a block or pan heater along with other actions.



Oooh you got that right. I find that with a good battery and decent oil you're generally OK to let the vehicle do it's thing up until about -25c as it tends to be for rather short stints at that temp around my area. After that it seems to really benefit from block heaters, battery blankets, oil pan heaters etc.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/15/20 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
At those kinds of temps and even before that it just makes good sense to take proactive measures like a block or pan heater along with other actions.

one of the reasons I miss my X5 35d is that it had PTC heater. I cranked that thing as low as -37c, put full heat and in 5sec it is there.
Not sure how much would be PTC heater to install as OE in cars, but it is best thing for cold areas.
Posted By: Tikka

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/16/20 12:01 AM

Hi Lads
It is difficult for me to even imagine the kind of temperatures you lads have to endure. Coldest I have experienced was -20c when hunting in Scotland.

When I was a lad back in the 60s and early 70s we had lots of snow. We can go whole winters now with nothing. Climate change is real.
All the cars back then ran 20w-50!

Sorry for swerving off topic slightly. Keep safe lads.
Posted By: Marco620

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/16/20 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
It's currently -33 F in Edmonton, a city of over a million people. That's a lot of block heaters. laugh





Good thing they have plenty of solar and wind power generation. 😂😂


LMAO!!!

This was Alberta yesterday. Wind was completely AWOL:
[Linked Image]

This was also the case, all the way across the other end of the country, in coastal Nova Scotia:
[Linked Image]



Awesome data unless your on the Greta boat.
Posted By: Marco620

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/16/20 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Lads
It is difficult for me to even imagine the kind of temperatures you lads have to endure. Coldest I have experienced was -20c when hunting in Scotland.

When I was a lad back in the 60s and early 70s we had lots of snow. We can go whole winters now with nothing. Climate change is real.
All the cars back then ran 20w-50!

Sorry for swerving off topic slightly. Keep safe lads.



I thought it was global warming?
Posted By: edyvw

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/16/20 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Lads
It is difficult for me to even imagine the kind of temperatures you lads have to endure. Coldest I have experienced was -20c when hunting in Scotland.

When I was a lad back in the 60s and early 70s we had lots of snow. We can go whole winters now with nothing. Climate change is real.
All the cars back then ran 20w-50!

Sorry for swerving off topic slightly. Keep safe lads.



I thought it was global warming?

I am not sure you guys in KS experience this, since things generally avoid KS.
Posted By: Duffyjr

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/16/20 04:28 PM

-7F here this morning but luckily no wind, even the snow was shivering so I can only imagine what you guys up there go thru.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/17/20 01:38 AM

Just got back from a delivery to Saskatoon. Stayed in the truck overnight at -22F. Not too bad, since I let it idle all night. I didn't even get in the sleeping bag; just used a light blanket. I was glad to get the delivery done on Monday, since it was going down to -26F on Tuesday, and -33F Wednesday.
Posted By: Tikka

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/18/20 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Lads
It is difficult for me to even imagine the kind of temperatures you lads have to endure. Coldest I have experienced was -20c when hunting in Scotland.

When I was a lad back in the 60s and early 70s we had lots of snow. We can go whole winters now with nothing. Climate change is real.
All the cars back then ran 20w-50!

Sorry for swerving off topic slightly. Keep safe lads.



I thought it was global warming?


Hi Marco
Well I can't speak for you lads in the states but the climate is definitely changing in Britain. We can go whole Winters now with only insignificant snowfall whereas back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s we would have significant falls every Winter. I am not convinced the change is man made but it is happening here.
Britain has the same latitude as Canada but we are warmed by the Gulf Stream. Maybe something is happening there.
Posted By: madeej11

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/21/20 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by OilUzer


... I have a scientist co-worker who told me that ALL engine oils (syn or EVEN dino), perform exactly the same @ -40°F vs. -40°C



Unfortunately, we may get to test that theory tonight ... the second number is windchill, in Celsius, which at these temps, is about the same as Fahrenheit.

Have mercy ...

[Linked Image]



In case it hasn't been noted I don't believe engine oil in a sump or anywhere else for that matter is affected by wind chill. Also (side note) at -40 degrees is where Celsius catches up to and surpasses farenheit temps, eg: -50c = -58f
Posted By: Bjornviken

Re: -40 Celsius and 5w30 - 01/21/20 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Lads
It is difficult for me to even imagine the kind of temperatures you lads have to endure. Coldest I have experienced was -20c when hunting in Scotland.

When I was a lad back in the 60s and early 70s we had lots of snow. We can go whole winters now with nothing. Climate change is real.
All the cars back then ran 20w-50!

Sorry for swerving off topic slightly. Keep safe lads.



I thought it was global warming?



-2 to +10 celsius overhere...zero snow and winter in january.
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