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Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits

Posted By: buster

Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:33 AM

Link

I'm on a Castrol kick....

hmmm, is this article new? Says 2019, but this appears to be the same Ti.

Quote
Dr Rebecca Yates continues: “This formulation is rooted in tribology. From the additives that we have selected, to the creation of Fluid TITANIUM Technology and the robust testing process that this product has been through, high-pressure chemistry is at its core. Castrol EDGE with Fluid TITANIUM Technology can confidently say that it reduces performance robbing friction by up to 20 per cent, the greatest advancement of anti-friction lubricant currently in the market.”

Posted By: CT8

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:42 AM

Bitog guys are suckers for marketing claims.
Posted By: GumbyJarvis

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by CT8
Bitog guys are suckers for marketing claims.


This x1,000,000

Same ole Titanium

Edit: not just Titanium, but TITANIUM
Posted By: donnyj08

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:47 AM

Mobil Super 5000 used to use TI as did many ConocoPhillips oils.

Edge is a quality product. That article is marketing, telling us what we already know...Castrol spends millions on R&D
Posted By: GumbyJarvis

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by donnyj08
Mobil Super 5000 used to use TI as did many ConocoPhillips oils.

Edge is a quality product. That article is marketing, telling us what we already know...Castrol spends millions on R&D


Did you know that a lot of money that goes into R&D also ends up being used as marketing?

A lot of times information found using money spent on R&D is actually used solely for marketing purposes. It's not industry specific either.


To make it semi simple

Marketing Team: Man, our Titanium oil needs a new refresher, our sales are slipping! Get R&D on it!

R&D team: we just found out Titanium is 0.00007% more effective at preventing wear

Marketing Team: alright alright alright! New commercial:
"X BRAND OIL, USING TITANIUM WHICH HAS NOW BEEN FOUND TO PREVENT EVEN MORE WEAR PROTECTION!"

Your average person is going to just buy it because of the key words and statements: Titanium, even more, wear protection.

These words will resonate. Theyll go buy oil and look and immediately see a bottle with Titanium on it and go "YIPPEE that's the stuff!"

Little do they know, it's the same stuff, and since they're average persons and not someone like a BITOGer, I doubt they're looking at VOAs, PDS', etc.



- Marketing graduate
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:54 AM

Filter through the hyperbole and what you've distilled is titanium, like some other transition metals, is an effective EP additive. Not exactly ground breaking news but how else would you expect Castrol to tout their use of titanium? (spoiler alert: all oil mfgs do it; use hyperbolic language in their press releases and marketing literature)
Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:55 AM

What I want to know is did it drop their price?
Posted By: Warstud

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:55 AM

Can't do better than Magnatec never....never....never
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 01:56 AM

Hey, maybe they should back that up by Project Farm! LOL
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Warstud
Can't do better than Magnatec never....never....never

That one lube consistently turns in good UOA's in a broad array of engines.. pretty impressive, and I'm not a Castrol fanboy.
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by donnyj08
Mobil Super 5000 used to use TI as did many ConocoPhillips oils.

Edge is a quality product. That article is marketing, telling us what we already know...Castrol spends millions on R&D


Castrol uses their own, proprietary Ti additive.

ya it's marketing. I don't think this additive gives Castrol an edge grin2 over the competition, but it is interesting. All oils today control wear very well.
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by donnyj08
Mobil Super 5000 used to use TI as did many ConocoPhillips oils.

Edge is a quality product. That article is marketing, telling us what we already know...Castrol spends millions on R&D


Castrol uses their own, proprietary Ti additive.

ya it's marketing. I don't think this additive gives Castrol an edge grin2 over the competition, but it is interesting. All oils today control wear very well.

True... and the formulator may choose one AW/EP additive over another for not just it's friction reducing properties but also for it's antioxidant capabilities.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:46 AM

Their oil has to be better than their website.
Posted By: leeharvey418

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
Originally Posted by CT8
Bitog guys are suckers for marketing claims.


This x1,000,000

Same ole Titanium

Edit: not just Titanium, but TITANIUM

You’re sure it’s not:

T I T A N I U M
I
T
A
N
I
U
M

?
Posted By: Mainia

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 03:02 AM

No, No it's TITANIUM with a T, a NEW T.
Posted By: RazorsEdge

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 03:08 AM

sleep
Posted By: csandste

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 05:57 AM

Let's keep it clean. It's BREASTANIUM.
Posted By: Gokhan

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by buster

Regarding diamond anvil cells and structural phase transitions of materials under extreme pressures (gigapascal range), this used to be my research area. In particular I was looking at lanthanides and actinides such as cerium (Ce) that suddenly experience a volume collapse of 15% or even more because of phase transitions under extreme pressure. This is pure science and it's interesting that Castrol scientists actually went to such great lengths to understand the mechanism of their tribofilms. Right on!

buster, as for the new discovery, I don't think they are referring to a new titanium additive but I think they are referring to the discovery of the underlying mechanism of how the titanium additive works.
Posted By: zeng

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by buster

Regarding diamond anvil cells and structural phase transitions of materials under extreme pressures (gigapascal range), this used to be my research area. In particular I was looking at lanthanides and actinides such as cerium (Ce) that suddenly experience a volume collapse of 15% or even more because of phase transitions under extreme pressure. This is pure science and it's interesting that Castrol scientists actually went to such great lengths to understand the mechanism of their tribofilms. Right on!

I wonder how this pressure-activation works and have been of the thought that Ti is basically a solid lubricant that provides higher MOFT.
Appreciate if you care to provide link(s) on the diamond thing and its mechanism ?
Posted By: OilUzer

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 06:50 AM

Reduces friction by %20 ...

Let assume that friction was 0 to begin with. Not realistic but for the sake of the argument ...
Reduce that by %20 and you get %0 reduction. Meaning no reduction!

in a more realistic case, reducing a very low number and/or a relatively insignificant number by %20, will result in an insignificant reduction! Meaning marketing at work shocked2

Not saying the oil is bad. I have 2x5 qt. of intelligent molecules in my garage but you gotta know the real numbers and do the math grin2
Posted By: wemay

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 06:50 AM

buster, thanks for sharing.
Posted By: Gokhan

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by zeng
Appreciate if you care to provide link(s) on the diamond thing and its mechanism ?

Diamond anvil cell is a device that uses a gasket around two sharp diamond tips (anvils) to apply pressure to the material inside so that the material's physical properties under gigapascal pressures can be studied. Such pressures can be experienced in the camshaft etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_anvil_cell

[Linked Image from upload.wikimedia.org]

Here the electromagnetic radiation is the X-rays originating from the synchrotron mentioned in the article, which can generate a very "bright" (high-intensity) X-ray. They can then use various techniques to study the structural changes of the material (Castrol oil in this case) under varying pressures in the gigapascal range.

This is the experimental device they used. However, they didn't provide any reference to a publication and I couldn't find a publication. Therefore, this could be an internal study and we are in dark as to what the mechanism of action is -- we don't know what kind of structural phase transition happens, let alone know how it happens.

Such structural phase transitions sometimes can be modeled using ab initio density functional theory (DFT) but that doesn't always work, especially if electron - electron interactions in the material are too strong, which results in complicated quantum mechanics that no one really knows how to approximate and solve.
Posted By: tahoe_hybrid

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 09:05 AM

marketing wank


motorkote seems to work
though
have you seen the PF video?

he ran that engine on water
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by OilUzer
In a more realistic case, reducing a very low number and/or a relatively insignificant number by %20, will result in an insignificant reduction! Meaning marketing at work shocked2

Doesn't seem insignificant to me when all that's separating two moving parts is a 1 micron thick film of oil, as can be found in places in the engine. In those boundary areas I'll take any reduction in friction from an EP additive I can get...

Originally Posted by zeng
I wonder how this pressure-activation works and have been of the thought that Ti is basically a solid lubricant that provides higher MOFT.
Appreciate if you care to provide link(s) on the diamond thing and its mechanism ?

I believe the Ti additive interacts with the metal (not the oil) at these high pressure/temperatures area to form a sacrificial layer between surface asperities, thereby reducing friction.

Typically this contact in surface asperities (boundary area) occurs when the MOFT has broken down. In effect, the EP additive is your last defense against metal to metal contact.

(Gokhan/Mola???)
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 09:50 AM

It’s an expensive material so figured the amount in a jug fits on the pointed end of a stick pin

You read the part where the R&D was not done with the exact amount you get in a Walmart jug in Florida
Posted By: zeng

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 10:35 AM

Thanks, mate.
Learn a new thing (to me) today.
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by buster

Regarding diamond anvil cells and structural phase transitions of materials under extreme pressures (gigapascal range), this used to be my research area. In particular I was looking at lanthanides and actinides such as cerium (Ce) that suddenly experience a volume collapse of 15% or even more because of phase transitions under extreme pressure. This is pure science and it's interesting that Castrol scientists actually went to such great lengths to understand the mechanism of their tribofilms. Right on!

buster, as for the new discovery, I don't think they are referring to a new titanium additive but I think they are referring to the discovery of the underlying mechanism of how the titanium additive works.


Thanks Gokhan, think you're right.

Pretty cool you were working in that area too.

This is science for sure.

Agree on Castrol's website. It's always been pretty bad. Not as bad as trying to find one of their PDSs though.
Posted By: dervdave

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by 4WD
It’s an expensive material so figured the amount in a jug fits on the pointed end of a stick pin




Might be all you need ?
Posted By: SubieRubyRoo

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 10:59 AM

Is there a thing as non-performance-robbing friction?

And based on that statement, it sounds like Ms. Rebecca Yates has her Ph.D. in marketing, not science. Edit: Went searching on LinkedIn. Rebecca Yates, "Procurement Manager" for BP, has a blank, empty profile other than the supposed position. Since you can't find anything other than Castrol press releases with her, it's almost like she's a figment of their marketing team's imagination?

"Rebecca Yates" LinkedIn Profile
Posted By: aquariuscsm

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Is there a thing as non-performance-robbing friction?

And based on that statement, it sounds like Ms. Rebecca Yates has her Ph.D. in marketing, not science. Edit: Went searching on LinkedIn. Rebecca Yates, "Procurement Manager" for BP, has a blank, empty profile other than the supposed position. Since you can't find anything other than Castrol press releases with her, it's almost like she's a figment of their marketing team's imagination?

"Rebecca Yates" LinkedIn Profile


Aw man! I was hoping to see if she's hot! wink
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Is there a thing as non-performance-robbing friction?

And based on that statement, it sounds like Ms. Rebecca Yates has her Ph.D. in marketing, not science. Edit: Went searching on LinkedIn. Rebecca Yates, "Procurement Manager" for BP, has a blank, empty profile other than the supposed position. Since you can't find anything other than Castrol press releases with her, it's almost like she's a figment of their marketing team's imagination?

"Rebecca Yates" LinkedIn Profile

So she's a master of the fine art of hyperbole?😂

Typical of the marketing dept.. give them a little data and boom, they run with it!😂

But in all seriousness, I agree with Gokhan - at it's core it's cool science.
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by buster
Link
I'm on a Castrol kick....
hmmm, is this article new? Says 2019, but this appears to be the same Ti.
Quote
Dr Rebecca Yates continues: “This formulation is rooted in tribology. From the additives that we have selected, to the creation of Fluid TITANIUM Technology and the robust testing process that this product has been through, high-pressure chemistry is at its core. Castrol EDGE with Fluid TITANIUM Technology can confidently say that it reduces performance robbing friction by up to 20 per cent, the greatest advancement of anti-friction lubricant currently in the market.”


Reduces friction by 20% compared to what?
Peanut butter?
;^)

JK, I'm sure Edge is really good oil...
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 12:22 PM

Ok let's clear something up here.....too many people on BITOG love the word "marketing". It's not the answer for everything like many think it is. Of course ANY company has to market their product. They often do it in really ridiculous ways too, especially Castrol. However, there is legit science behind this stuff. It's chemistry and physics. Ti is real. The Earth is actually round. Whether it is any better than what others are using I could not tell you. I do believe that Castrol/BP worked with Universities on developing this proprietary additive. Castrol uses an in-house version and it is not the same as what is found in other products. smile
Posted By: dbias

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:03 PM

Extreme heat and pressure can have wild effects upon a substance. Some think it may be raining diamonds on Uranus right now. Break out the preparation H. LOL
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by dbias
Extreme heat and pressure can have wild effects upon a substance. Some think it may be raining diamonds on Uranus right now. Break out the preparation H. LOL

Don't know about diamonds (actually it does) but I've been told that if you bend over and look at the night sky through your legs, it's possible to see Uranus 😉
Posted By: Sayjac

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by CT8
Bitog guys are suckers for marketing claims.
Not I. Otoh, a sucker for a great deal (often rebated) on any of the major's synthetic oil...that would be me. Or a really exceptional deal on a closeout synthetic like Idemitsu at AAP, ~$2.84/gal.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by buster
Link

I'm on a Castrol kick....

hmmm, is this article new? Says 2019, but this appears to be the same Ti.

Quote
Dr Rebecca Yates continues: “This formulation is rooted in tribology. From the additives that we have selected, to the creation of Fluid TITANIUM Technology and the robust testing process that this product has been through, high-pressure chemistry is at its core. Castrol EDGE with Fluid TITANIUM Technology can confidently say that it reduces performance robbing friction by up to 20 per cent, the greatest advancement of anti-friction lubricant currently in the market.”



By up to 20 percent eh? Is that 20 percent compared to sand? hide
Posted By: CR94

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by buster
Quote
Dr Rebecca Yates continues: “... Castrol EDGE with Fluid TITANIUM Technology can confidently say that it reduces performance robbing friction by up to 20 per cent, the greatest advancement of anti-friction lubricant currently in the market.”

By up to 20 percent eh? Is that 20 percent compared to sand?
Besides which, "up to 20%" is classic advertising double-talk to make "less than 20%" sound good. It could be only 2% and still fit within that deceptive claim. If she'd instead said "reduces friction by more than 10%," that would have more meaning----and be easier for a competitor to disprove, if it's not realistic.
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 08:37 PM

True.

The claims made by Castrol are:
Improves oil film strength by 30% and reduces power robbing friction
Ten times stronger against high temperature oil thickening to unlock maximum performance
Six times stronger against wear vs the industry benchmark

Tested in Seq IIIH test vs. API SN PLUS Limit
Tested in Seq IVA test vs API SN PLUS Limit
Per the Kurt Orbahn test in the 5W-30 vis- grade
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/11/19 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Is there a thing as non-performance-robbing friction?

And based on that statement, it sounds like Ms. Rebecca Yates has her Ph.D. in marketing, not science. Edit: Went searching on LinkedIn. Rebecca Yates, "Procurement Manager" for BP, has a blank, empty profile other than the supposed position. Since you can't find anything other than Castrol press releases with her, it's almost like she's a figment of their marketing team's imagination?

"Rebecca Yates" LinkedIn Profile

So she's a master of the fine art of hyperbole?😂

Typical of the marketing dept.. give them a little data and boom, they run with it!😂

But in all seriousness, I agree with Gokhan - at it's core it's cool science.



She has no picture... So she did not happen... She is not real LOL
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/12/19 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by bbhero
She has no picture... So she did not happen... She is not real LOL

Great... another fig newton of my imagination!😂
Posted By: AnthemBassMan

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/12/19 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mainia
No, No it's TITANIUM with a T, a NEW T.


Correct. The original T in Titanium was a typo because it was accidentally put in backwards. The T in new Titanium spelling has been correctly typed to remove the error.

L8R,
Matt
Posted By: Direct_Rejection

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/12/19 10:04 PM

Clearly, this is an argument for thin oil.
If you have "film strength" and you have "Titanium,"
you don't even need extra viscosity.



drive
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/13/19 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by bbhero
She has no picture... So she did not happen... She is not real LOL

Great... another fig newton of my imagination!😂



Hey... I really like Fig Newtons LOL
Posted By: buster

BP - Castrol’s lubricants on the EDGE - 09/15/19 12:08 AM

BP Ti


This technology journey began several years ago in a laboratory in New Jersey, US. “We’re always looking at different chemistries or components that may allow us to enhance performance attributes of our lubricants,” says Mario Esposito, Castrol’s team leader for polymer development and passenger car oils, at the Wayne Technology Center.

“We formulate our lubricants around individual, proprietary ingredients, creating a ‘hand crafted’ differentiated offer, and with Castrol EDGE, we aimed to develop a performance additive that made the lubricant stronger.”

“We test parameters such as impact on engine wear, sludge build-up and piston cleanliness. Some tests can take several weeks to run – the longest was a 900-hour engine test. These are extreme by nature, creating conditions that will never be seen in a car on the road.”

Tests also followed with original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) and other research facilities. “We worked with a Scottish university to independently test the additive under very high pressure,” says senior technologist, Gareth Dowd. “This confirmed that adding the titanium improved fluid strength by changing its physical behaviour.”
Castrol’s team of chemists built that molecule from scratch, as polymer research manager, Richard Sauer explains: “We were assessing a range of transition elements, trying to identify which one would bring value to a finished oil. We needed to assess the advantages of each element, looking at factors such as engine deposits and wear control.
Posted By: Bjornviken

Re: Castrol announces discovery of new Fluid TITANIUM Technology benefits - 09/15/19 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
Their oil has to be better than their website.



I hope so...
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