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Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ?

Posted By: ChrisD46

Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/08/19 11:00 PM

WM has both on roll back where I live within pennies of each other ... The Castrol Edge 5W30 touting 20K mile protection while the M1 EP 5W30 staying with 15K mile protection .
I figure both are good for between 10K ~ 12K mile OCI under normal mixed driving conditions . *The M1 site shows the 5W30 EP to be rated for D1 / Gen 2 while the Castrol site did not show D1 / G2 for the Edge 5W30 EP (yet it is rated for 20K miles) . What gives ? Admittedly Castrol's web site is such that I'm never sure with geographic site I'm looking at ... Besides marketing , does one have a better add pack or base oil or do you just pick based on what's available to read (i.e. marketing / PDS sheets) ? Lastly , has anyone seen a UOA on either 5W30 oil out to 15K ~ 20K miles ? ... In mixed driving conditions I am curious how these two EP oils degrade versus say regular M1 5W30 or Edge 5W30 ?
Posted By: LotI

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/08/19 11:47 PM

I don’t think anyone is courageous enough to take them up on the 15-20k mile claims. If I still had my ‘12 Accord with a K24 and port injection I would be tempted to take it to 15k. My driving isn’t typical at 36k/yr and 90% highway.

Mixed driving like most people, stick to the manufacturers recommendation or less!

My current thinking is 5k oil, 10k filters on a healthy engine. The oil is less important than the oil change.
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 12:10 AM

Both are great. Castrol is in the process of having EDGE EP D1G2 certified.

Castrol makes some interesting claims for EDGE:
Improves oil film strength by 30% and reduces power robbing friction
Ten times stronger against high temperature oil thickening to unlock maximum performance** (based on SEQ IIIH)
Six times stronger against wear vs the industry benchmark*** (based on SEQ IVA)

The proprietary Ti additive they are using was developed over a 10 year period. I have never been a fan of Castrol due to their marketing, however I do believe EDGE is a top notch oil. Mobil 1 is always one of the best.

Posted By: painfx

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 01:12 AM

Castrol Edge Titanium seems to have a higher TBN and a higher NOACK number. There is no info on the Mobil 1 EP though.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 01:14 AM

The oils may be capable but will your engine let them run 15k-20k?

I wouldn’t run that far on a GDI engine.
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by PimTac
The oils may be capable but will your engine let them run 15k-20k?

I wouldn’t run that far on a GDI engine.


I wouldn't either.
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by PimTac
The oils may be capable but will your engine let them run 15k-20k?

I wouldn’t run that far on a GDI engine.


I wouldn't either.



+2...

Y'all both are right in my opinion too.
Posted By: IndyFan

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 02:13 AM

I guess this is another reminder that I'm getting old. I remember when everyone said the oil companies were scamming us into buying more oil by recommending 3k mile oil changes. Now they tell us we can go as high as 20k and nobody wants to believe them.

My how things change. Lol! LOL
Posted By: Marco620

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 05:40 AM

TBN isnt everything though.It could be high and free fall all of a sudden. Both are good choices.
Posted By: Marco620

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 05:41 AM

Agreed. 6-8K on a GDi
Posted By: OilUzer

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 07:25 AM

I've used and have some M1 EP 5Wx30 and 10Wx30 and really like it. Like to try the Castrol 0W30 that has the higher hths but it is pricey ... It's the black bottle and about $9 /qt. Forgot what they call it. Euro or Belgium or old German Castrol. Only seen it on Amazon. It has the MB and VW and LL ratings ... I would try that before the extended edge . But I think it's only api sm or even sl. Not sure.
Posted By: avi1777

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 07:59 AM

correct me if im wrong but regardless to the oil i dont think the filter will be efficient at 20k.
Posted By: ChrisD46

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 09:53 AM

*I recall reading not long ago where a M1 spokesperson said that the EP version would maintain / hold it's additives out to 20K+ miles . Conversely , you would need to change your oil filter at least once (unless using a Fram Ultra) . The way I now see it : For mixed driving with my GDI Sonata I would use black bottle Edge 5W30 or regular M1 out to 5K mile OCI max ; with the EP versions of each oil I would run out to 7.5K to 8K miles max . *With a GDI engine there are fuel dilution , soot , etc. issues to contend with thus a EP version of Castrol or M1 will only be ideal for so long in those engines .
Posted By: PWMDMD

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by avi1777
correct me if im wrong but regardless to the oil i dont think the filter will be efficient at 20k.


Mobil makes a 20K filter too.
Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 02:04 PM

Don't leave Valvoline Advanced Synthetic out of the conversation.

It Could out-perform the two mentioned.

Knocked my socks off - twice.
Posted By: DGXR

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 04:30 PM

Mobil 1 EP is tried and true claiming 15k, Castrol Edge EP is the new kid claiming 20k. Guess which one I would suggest.

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Don't leave Valvoline Advanced Synthetic out of the conversation.

It Could out-perform the two mentioned.

Knocked my socks off - twice.

Do tell!
Posted By: OilUzer

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/09/19 06:06 PM

Highest I've seen is Amsoil SS @25K.
Posted By: avi1777

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/10/19 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Don't leave Valvoline Advanced Synthetic out of the conversation.

It Could out-perform the two mentioned.

Knocked my socks off - twice.

how come it can out perform them?
tnx
Posted By: ChrisD46

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/10/19 01:09 PM

ARCOgraphite : I have Valvoline 5W30 Advanced Synthetic 5W30 in my Hyundai 2.4L GDI engine now with an expected OCI of 4K miles .. *Tell me about your two experiences running the Valvoline Advanced ?.
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Don't leave Valvoline Advanced Synthetic out of the conversation.

It Could out-perform the two mentioned.

Knocked my socks off - twice.
Posted By: Ddub

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/10/19 02:51 PM

Anecdotal evidence only with no UOAs, but I've used Castrol EP exclusively in our Mazda 6 since it has been out of warranty with no issues at all. We go 8K-10K miles or 1 year (whichever comes first) with a long life filter (currently Fram Ultra, previously Bosch Distance Plus). It's current fill is the new 20K version of Castrol EP 5W-30 with a Fram Ultra filter. It was changed at 80K and will change again at 90K or next August. While I'll never run it out to 15-20K, I do have some piece of mind knowing that if I go 12K miles or 14-15 months, I have a margin of error and am most likely not hurting anything.
Posted By: Ignatius

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/10/19 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Marco620
Agreed. 6-8K on a GDi


I use Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 in my 2012 Hyundai Accent with the 1.6L GDI even though that is one of the most robust 5w30 oils available I don't want to push it beyond a 7500 mile OCI. I have a jug of M1 EP I am going to try out as well and I could care less about the 15,000 mile OCI claim, I won't trust it beyond 7500 miles in a Hyundai GDI.
Posted By: Ignatius

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/10/19 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Marco620
Agreed. 6-8K on a GDi


I use Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 in my 2012 Hyundai Accent with the 1.6L GDI and even though that is one of the most robust 5w30 oils available I don't want to push it beyond a 7500 mile OCI. I have a jug of M1 EP I am going to try out as well and I could care less about the 15,000 mile OCI claim, I won't trust it beyond 7500 miles in a Hyundai GDI.
Posted By: Direct_Rejection

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/11/19 11:32 PM

So what does Castrol do to get this oil to a 20k mile OCI capability ?
We know Mobil does it chiefly with high quality base stocks (go back and look at M1 EP vs M1 vanilla.)
The obvious answer would be beefy add pack, but I don't think so.
I am guessing that Castrol has some secret hydrocracking method.
What is the density of Castrol Gold Bottle ?
I have become sold on "Fluid Strength" and "Titanium."
We have been dismissive of Castrol because in the recent past, the 5 quart jugs at Walmart have been a few dollars more than other oils.
I noticed a while ago that Castrol EP is cheaper than M1 AP, so there is your value oil.
Posted By: buster

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/11/19 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
So what does Castrol do to get this oil to a 20k mile OCI capability ?
We know Mobil does it chiefly with high quality base stocks (go back and look at M1 EP vs M1 vanilla.)
The obvious answer would be beefy add pack, but I don't think so.
I am guessing that Castrol has some secret hydrocracking method.
What is the density of Castrol Gold Bottle ?
I have become sold on "Fluid Strength" and "Titanium."
We have been dismissive of Castrol because in the recent past, the 5 quart jugs at Walmart have been a few dollars more than other oils.
I noticed a while ago that Castrol EP is cheaper than M1 AP, so there is your value oil.


That's a very good question. I don't know what base oils Castrol is using in Edge EP. They do make some significant claims based on the IIIH, IVA and Kurt Orbahn tests, all of which are industry reputable and required.

"Castrol EDGE contains a liquid Titanium molecule which provides added strength to oils by reducing wear and increasing deposit-control performance. This dynamic system of fluid strength technology continuously responds to your engine’s every need under all conditions to deliver maximum performance."

In addition to moly and boron, they are also using this Ti additive. I felt Castrol really improved since API SN. Around 2013 they also went with a Mg/Ca additive system. I'd still give the edge on oxidation stability to Mobil 1, but Edge has the added Ti additive. I also confirmed that Edge EP has the same molecules found in Magnatec as well.
Posted By: Mad_Hatter

Re: Castrol Edge EP vs. M1 EP (5W30) ? - 09/12/19 01:51 AM

To achieve extended drains, not only must a quality add pak be used but the base oil(s) must also be of high quality in order to resist oxidative and thermal degradation over long drain intervals.(add pks assist the oil, not do it's job)

There's no way to know for certain what Castrol uses for it's EP as far as base oil(s), but I'd guess it has to be (at minimum) a grp3+ or better possibly w/grp5 ester.

I believe M1's VISOM is a grp3+ as well as Shell's GTL. These synthetics (grp3+) have near PAO (grp4) viscosity indices.
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