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5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40?

Posted By: panthermike

5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 07:37 PM

My F150 is currently in the shop getting a new Ford Long block. I bought the truck with 97K and a good history but this stuff happens! Very happy I purchased a powertrain warranty on it. Based on some recommendations from both this board as well as Ford techs(one of which is Fordtechmakuloco on YT), I will not be running 5w20. Most of the recommendations seem to be for 5w30.

My question is should I stick with a Syn 5w30 or something like M1 0w40? Any benefit in these 3 valves with the 0w40? Not trying to start a viscosity war here, just curious what some of your guys thoughts are or if anyone has experience with these motors? This motor failed at 103K, so I'm hoping to at least get another 100-150K out of her before it's retired.

Thanks for the feedback

Attached picture IMG_20190721_161455740.jpg
Posted By: Miller88

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 07:44 PM

Are you doing a HV oil pump? Or is it just going to be all stock components?
Posted By: burla

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 07:51 PM

Most 0w40's are super class oils, built right on the edge of the low limits to be a 40 weight cSt 12.5, most of them really spend most of their time as 5w30 in the sump. I wouldn't go Ford spec hunting if you are trying to gauge quality. Look at mercedes and porsche spec, those specs encourage the manu's to use higher quality base oils. Put it this way, it is easier to find a high quality 0w40 then a 5w30, because 5w30 is hamstrung with regulations thanks to CAFE and the EPA unless you move over to real boutique 5w30. IMO good move getting away from 20 weight. If you go 0w40 for higher ep/aw additives and part pao base oils, look at one with cSt less then 14 for sure, closer to 12.5 better.
Posted By: Silverado12

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 07:54 PM

I use 5W-30 in all my Fords (2000 4.6 2 valve Mustang GT, 2010 3 valve Mustang GT, 2018 5.0 4 valve Coyote Mustang GT). I'm definitely not with thin oil in these motors. They will last a long time with good maintenance, though. Even the 5.3L.
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 08:02 PM

Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 are both great oils run them and don’t look back,
Posted By: zorobabel

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 08:36 PM

A friend of mine ran 15W-50 in one of these engines. It didn't blow up.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 08:36 PM

Mobil 1 0W40 would be a great choice. I'd say ESP 0W30 or 5W30 would be great choices too, if you're looking for a "thicker full synthetic" 30 grade oil, and don't mind paying up for it.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Miller88
Are you doing a HV oil pump? Or is it just going to be all stock components?


It will be all stock components
Posted By: Silverado12

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 09:22 PM

I use 5W-30 in all my Fords (2000 4.6 2 valve Mustang GT, 2010 3 valve Mustang GT, 2018 5.0 4 valve Coyote Mustang GT). I'm definitely not with thin oil in these motors. They will last a long time with good maintenance, though. Even the 5.4L.
Posted By: ka9mnx

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 10:03 PM

5w-30 synthetic.
Posted By: Garak

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 10:37 PM

An A3/B4 type synthetic would be just fine. So would an E6 like I'm running. Of course, there's nothing wrong with 5w-20 or 0w-20, but you have chosen not to run them, and that's perfectly fine and there definitely are other choices.
Posted By: Jimmy_Russells

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 10:44 PM

What was used in the original engine, and what failed?
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 11:18 PM

If I had one of these engines I would use whatever is the best 5w30 synthetic you can find on sale, at no more than 5k miles, or 3k if it's short tripped.

These do not tolerate the extended oil changes so many on here like. Tiny oiling holes plug up and once it happens it's too late from everything I've heard.
Posted By: dblshock

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 11:37 PM

my 5/30 spec'd Toyotas run perfect on 0/40 cold and 15/40 warm weather...neither use oil.
Posted By: FastLane

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 11:48 PM

M1 5W30 is what I use in my 4.6.
Posted By: blupupher

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/12/19 11:54 PM

Of the choices posted, 5w-30.
Just curious why not going with the upgraded oil pump?

But I have no issues running 5w-20 in the 3v 5.4 (just do shorter intervals).
My brother in laws '04 with the 3v 5.4 is quieter with 5w-20 than 5w-30. I know the opposite of most, but it is. shrug
He is at 173,xxx miles on his (but his oil filter is full of metal for past 20,000 miles).
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 12:06 AM

jimmy- the truck had 5w20 prior to me owning it and 40w since i've had it. The only reason i ran a 40w was to try and prolong the inevitable, it just happened so soon!

blupupher- cost partially as well as what the warranty company will pay for. I really didn't want to fight with Ford to use my own part on their motor.
Posted By: tiger862

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 12:19 AM

So you put 40 grade oil in one spec for 20 grade and engine failed but it was fault of 20 grade oil? Don't over think it go with what is spec and sleep well. Lots of engines use 20 grade oil with hundreds of thousands miles on them still running. 3 in my family running 20 grade 178k, 90k, 10k.
Posted By: dblshock

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 12:39 AM

a few engines can handle a w/20, most not so good long term, I avoid it.
Posted By: Cujet

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 01:00 AM

My 2009 5.4L currently has 132,000 on it, and it's been on 10W-30 M1 nearly all it's life. No signs of impending doom either.

I did a little UOA testing early on and the 10W-30EP came out on top. Less shear than the M1 5W-30 and slightly lower Fe. These engines do quite well with a higher viscosity, especially in warm climates.

0W-40 is not an ideal choice when compared to some others, as it's often less shear stable due to higher levels of viscosity index improvers.

It's good to keep in mind that the newer Ford replacement parts have addressed the previous faults and are known to hold up quite well.

It's also good to understand exactly why these problems occur in the first place. The oil pumps do tend to leak from the backing plate, especially over time. The cam chain tensioners tend to "blow out" the O-ring seal and leak. The combo starves the heads for oil.

The newer Ford cam phasers have better locking pins and don't make as much noise. But again, the locking pin is designed to retract, so a tight fit is not possible and they will always make a little noise. Oil viscosity plays a role here too, as the pin is cushioned by the oil. Phaser wear can be related to oil particulates. Change your oil regularly.
Posted By: joekingcorvette

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 01:19 AM

I had an 05 F-150 that had 215,000 when I sold it and it ran perfect and used no oil. The previous owner used the Ford oil 5W-20 and I usually put in Mobil 1 0W-20. I used what the factory recommended and didn't have any problems. If you must use something different I would go with a 0W-30 or 5W-30. I run 0W-20 in my 2014 Ford 5.0 engine.
Posted By: donnyj08

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 02:15 AM

The oil choice won’t matter much. The most Important thing on a 5.4L is to keep the oil changed.


I’ve replaced chains, phasers, oil pump, and pickup tube in about a dozen of these so far.

Sludgy ones usually need it done by 100k. Well maintained ones will make it to 150-175k. The 5.4 3v is just a turd. The 2V engines were much better.

Oil type matters little. 5w20 or 5w30 are both fine. I do believe there is less timing chain and guide wear on the 30wt oils, but I don’t have proof.






Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by tiger862
So you put 40 grade oil in one spec for 20 grade and engine failed but it was fault of 20 grade oil? Don't over think it go with what is spec and sleep well. Lots of engines use 20 grade oil with hundreds of thousands miles on them still running. 3 in my family running 20 grade 178k, 90k, 10k.


I didn't say 20 grade is at fault here, not even close. Just answering Jimmy's question
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 02:30 AM

Thanks for the input fellas, it sounds like a 5w30 changed regularly would be the way to go!
Posted By: burla

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 02:41 AM

Since you are going with 5w30 which means it will be low zddp you may at least opt for a high moly oil. Many many companies are headed this way, QSUD, Truck and Gas, Amsoil, Redline, and even PYB if you are going conventional.
Posted By: tcp71

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 03:02 AM

Castrol 0w40 for years in my 2009 F150. Quiet at startup, on the highway and at hot idle when I sold it at 120k miles. Change it often, whichever you chose.
Posted By: blupupher

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by panthermike
...
blupupher- cost partially as well as what the warranty company will pay for. I really didn't want to fight with Ford to use my own part on their motor.

Ahh, OK, so not your dime, I can understand that. Even then, the newer OEM parts do address some of the issues, just not quite as well as something like the Melling pump would.

Again, I personally would just use a cheap synthetic 5w-20 and change every 4000 miles or so. It is what I am doing with my BIL truck.
I could understand the desire to use a name brand 5w-30 synthetic though, my brain still thinks that way some times, but regardless, I would lean toward shorter OCI instead of longer (or even recommended).
This is part of the reason I say use a cheap syn oil, regardless of which oil brand or weight is used, 4000 miles is about the limit on these things. the long timing chains, hydraulic adjusters, VCT solenoids, phasers, just a lot of stuff going on in these things that can be hard on oil.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by panthermike
...
blupupher- cost partially as well as what the warranty company will pay for. I really didn't want to fight with Ford to use my own part on their motor.

Ahh, OK, so not your dime, I can understand that. Even then, the newer OEM parts do address some of the issues, just not quite as well as something like the Melling pump would.

Again, I personally would just use a cheap synthetic 5w-20 and change every 4000 miles or so. It is what I am doing with my BIL truck.
I could understand the desire to use a name brand 5w-30 synthetic though, my brain still thinks that way some times, but regardless, I would lean toward shorter OCI instead of longer (or even recommended).
This is part of the reason I say use a cheap syn oil, regardless of which oil brand or weight is used, 4000 miles is about the limit on these things. the long timing chains, hydraulic adjusters, VCT solenoids, phasers, just a lot of stuff going on in these things that can be hard on oil.


Hey i appreciate the feedback, i've heard go with a shorter oci but wasn't sure how short. This helps, and makes total sense why you mention to use something cheap!
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by burla
Since you are going with 5w30 which means it will be low zddp you may at least opt for a high moly oil. Many many companies are headed this way, QSUD, Truck and Gas, Amsoil, Redline, and even PYB if you are going conventional.


Thanks, I'm liking the Truck and Gas. It looks like a good overall blend and reasonably priced at WM.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 10:24 PM

Use 5W20 and the brand doesn't matter just keep the oil level topped off and change it every 7-10K miles. Unless you are in the severe service category the 5K.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/13/19 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by panthermike
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by panthermike
...
blupupher- cost partially as well as what the warranty company will pay for. I really didn't want to fight with Ford to use my own part on their motor.

Ahh, OK, so not your dime, I can understand that. Even then, the newer OEM parts do address some of the issues, just not quite as well as something like the Melling pump would.

Again, I personally would just use a cheap synthetic 5w-20 and change every 4000 miles or so. It is what I am doing with my BIL truck.
I could understand the desire to use a name brand 5w-30 synthetic though, my brain still thinks that way some times, but regardless, I would lean toward shorter OCI instead of longer (or even recommended).
This is part of the reason I say use a cheap syn oil, regardless of which oil brand or weight is used, 4000 miles is about the limit on these things. the long timing chains, hydraulic adjusters, VCT solenoids, phasers, just a lot of stuff going on in these things that can be hard on oil.


Hey i appreciate the feedback, i've heard go with a shorter oci but wasn't sure how short. This helps, and makes total sense why you mention to use something cheap!


I would go shorter than any other engine you can think of that needs frequent oil changes, because these are one of the most likely engines to fail IMO.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/14/19 04:09 AM

No this engine is historically robust significantly more reliable than the industry average.
Posted By: Bjornviken

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/14/19 10:27 AM

Mobil1 0w-40
Posted By: FastLane

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/14/19 01:18 PM

5.4 is not robust. They fail often and early. Take care of it. There is a reason why you cant find them used. You don't need a HV oil pump. Its nice but way over priced.. I would say the standard volume Melling pump is a million times better than the Ford. I have one sitting in my garage to swap over in my 4.6 when I do the timing chains.
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/14/19 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by FastLane
5.4 is not robust. They fail often and early. Take care of it. There is a reason why you cant find them used. You don't need a HV oil pump. Its nice but way over priced.. I would say the standard volume Melling pump is a million times better than the Ford. I have one sitting in my garage to swap over in my 4.6 when I do the timing chains.


You are just plain wrong with your opinion.
Posted By: mrjlube

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/14/19 05:08 PM

How do you know that the 40 weight oil did not cause your problem? It serms everyone is scared of 5w20 oils. Stick with what the manual says and drive that sucker for 200,000 miles👍 I was scared of it also until gaining valuable knowledge on this site. This is a fun hobby for me.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/14/19 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by mrjlube
How do you know that the 40 weight oil did not cause your problem? It serms everyone is scared of 5w20 oils. Stick with what the manual says and drive that sucker for 200,000 miles👍 I was scared of it also until gaining valuable knowledge on this site. This is a fun hobby for me.


Well I think it's very unlikely that ANY weight oil caused this issue; 20 or 40. This failure is not common i would say but there are examples of this specific failure out there with the 3V. All the issues I experienced pre-failure were prior to me trying 40w and with 20w in the sump. Again though; the failure was going to happen regardless.

I normally have no issue running what is spec'd but from my reading/research the 30w works well in the 3V(or at least certainly doesn't hurt).

Here's my thread when I knew something was up:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...f-150-5-4-3v-issues-imminent#Post5064089
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by dave1251
No this engine is historically robust significantly more reliable than the industry average.


What?! You're crazy.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 11:40 AM

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/F-150/2007/engine/engine_knocking.shtml

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/F-150/2005/engine/

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/F-150/2005/engine/loud_ticking_knocking_noise_from_motor.shtml

This is the quickest place I can find some examples...but they are known in the automotive industry to not be very good at all.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 04:08 PM

Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.
Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by panthermike
Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.

OP, what's the status on your truck and new engine install?
Posted By: gfh77665

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 04:36 PM

I have always wondered what s the true likelihood of having the 5.4L problems? Is it 10% of the Fords? 5%? 1%? 0.1%?
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv



There are about 2 million examples of this engine and the failure rate before 150K miles is below 3%. Did you account for this?
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by panthermike
Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.



Think of it like this everyone in Phoenix could have one and there would be enough to give one to everyone in Tucson. There view you and Caprice is representative of a fraction of a percentage getting caught up in the micro view when making an statement as the whole is far from wise.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by panthermike
Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.



Think of it like this everyone in Phoenix could have one and there would be enough to give one to everyone in Tucson. There view you and Caprice is representative of a fraction of a percentage getting caught up in the micro view when making an statement as the whole is far from wise.



I wouldn't disagree with you there Dave. I think my feeling is more so not that it's "unreliable" but just has some weak design points as compared to the 2V. Or I guess more complexity is another way to put it. But again, I know there's a ton of these motors and a bunch with high miles. Actually there's a gentleman on YT that claims to have 600K on his '09, original engine/trans.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by panthermike
Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.

OP, what's the status on your truck and new engine install?


No updates so far this week. I was told on Saturday that the new motor should arrive by Tuesday at the latest, so I'm hoping they're working on it.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 09:42 PM

[s][/s]
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv



There are about 2 million examples of this engine and the failure rate before 150K miles is below 3%. Did you account for this?


I'm accounting for how many I personally know of failing and how many I hear in traffic clacking and the fact that most owners aren't going to report their failures (especially companies that own fleets of then of which most will probably fail eventually in construction type usage).

I'm accounting for the fact that they are known to be one of the most unreliable engines whether you will admit it or not.

I even have a good friend who's always been a Ford lover and loved these trucks, but even he admits they are junk. They are one of the reasons he switched from Ford.

The 4.6 is a good engine with some problems and a low failure rate. The 5.4 is not. And when they fail, nobody wants to work on the [censored] thing (I worked in a few garages and know this as a fact).

I would never own one because I don't have the skills to fix it and all the good mechanics I know from the industry don't want to fix it either and it's very likely to need fixing. Maybe not for the guy that bought it new for a fortune and kept it for 100k, but my budget would only allow me to get a 200k mile truck and hope to get another 100k out of it, so I guess I better stick with a 5.3 or 4.8 gm truck or something even older that can be fixed by anyone.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by panthermike
Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.



Think of it like this everyone in Phoenix could have one and there would be enough to give one to everyone in Tucson. There view you and Caprice is representative of a fraction of a percentage getting caught up in the micro view when making an statement as the whole is far from wise.


Wise is to not own one of these unless you got it for a steal. What experience do you have with them that makes you so confident in your opinion of their failure rate?
Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/15/19 11:16 PM

My son works at a Ford dealership. He was telling me earlier today that a 06 King Ranch (77K miles) with the 5.4 3V engine came in a few days ago with a loud ticking noise. It has a 100K drive train warranty. After getting the OK to work on it the cam phasers, chains, and all that goes with the repair, is being done to this engine.
He said the tech was pulling the plastic tension pieces from the oil pan and throwing them on the ground. crackmeup
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by panthermike
Hate to say it since I own one, but agree with caprice; they're not as good as the 2V for sure. Seems hit and miss though; my brother has the 3V in his '07 F150 and it has been trouble free for 175K miles, pretty ugly maintenance records to.



Think of it like this everyone in Phoenix could have one and there would be enough to give one to everyone in Tucson. There view you and Caprice is representative of a fraction of a percentage getting caught up in the micro view when making an statement as the whole is far from wise.


Wise is to not own one of these unless you got it for a steal. What experience do you have with them that makes you so confident in your opinion of their failure rate?



It is called facts and critical thinking. Again over 2 million engines and you still account for a fraction of percentage failure rate. You only have about 20000+ more examples to get to 1% and even the that is well below the industry average for engine failures.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 01:22 AM

So where you were getting your information/facts?
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 01:28 AM

Here are a couple more examples just using 2005 as a random comparison.

Attached picture Screenshot_20190815-212602.png
Attached picture Screenshot_20190815-212412.png
Posted By: dave1251

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Here are a couple more examples just using 2005 as a random comparison.



Still your not getting close to the industry average of failure also your example is complaints mostly about engine "noise". Also it's just a model there is nothing about which engine.
Posted By: Fastzntn

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 02:27 AM

OP- I bought my 2004 F150 w/ 5.4 3 valve in 2015 with 123k miles. I don’t drive much, so just change the oil yearly.

First change used Motorcraft 5w20- no noise, no issues.

Also used Mobil 1 5w30, no difference I could tell, no issues.

The last couple times it’s been Castrol Magnatec 5w30. No difference.

Mine doesn’t seem to be picky about the oil or weight (I use a motorcraft filter at each change).
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
[s][/s]
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv



There are about 2 million examples of this engine and the failure rate before 150K miles is below 3%. Did you account for this?


I'm accounting for how many I personally know of failing and how many I hear in traffic clacking and the fact that most owners aren't going to report their failures (especially companies that own fleets of then of which most will probably fail eventually in construction type usage).

I'm accounting for the fact that they are known to be one of the most unreliable engines whether you will admit it or not.

I even have a good friend who's always been a Ford lover and loved these trucks, but even he admits they are junk. They are one of the reasons he switched from Ford.

The 4.6 is a good engine with some problems and a low failure rate. The 5.4 is not. And when they fail, nobody wants to work on the [censored] thing (I worked in a few garages and know this as a fact).

I would never own one because I don't have the skills to fix it and all the good mechanics I know from the industry don't want to fix it either and it's very likely to need fixing. Maybe not for the guy that bought it new for a fortune and kept it for 100k, but my budget would only allow me to get a 200k mile truck and hope to get another 100k out of it, so I guess I better stick with a 5.3 or 4.8 gm truck or something even older that can be fixed by anyone.



I'll work on them....NO problem!! Some of the factory service procedures, Especially the Valve Timing/Timing Chain procedures are completely unnecessary!! If a tech is familiar with a 2V Modular Ford....A 3V is a walk in the park!


The old 2V procedure had you place the crankshaft keyway at 12 O'clock with the left & right camshaft gear timing marks pointed up. This put ALL 8 pistons down in their bores enough that a valve hitting a piston is impossible.

The 3V procedure has you place the keyway 12 O'clock, Remove 6 rocker arms with a special tool, Rotate the engine 'til the keyway is at 6 O'clock, Remove the chains, Remove both camshafts, Rotate the engine to #1 TDC using a special tool to locate TDC & lock the the crank in place.
Install both camshafts in their neural positions with the timing marks pointed up. Torque+Degree both VCT Phasers using a special tool to hold them still.
Now you can install the timing chains & rocker arms.

When in reality....The ONLY special tool you need is the VCT gear holders to torque/angle the bolts, You do the rest JUST like the old 2V engines with the crankshaft keyway at 12 O'clock (Pistons down in their bores).
I've done at least 50 3V engines this way, Why Ford decided to you NEED to find TDC is beyond me!

*Rattling VCT Phasers are a fact of life with the 3V engine, Ford updated the parts & isn't really an issue anymore, They can actually be changed without removing the Timing Cover but I usually recommend a full Timing Set to take advantage of Labor Combinations....I.E....It's cheaper to do everything at once than paying for doubled up labor operations later.
*Tensioner Seals blowing out & Guides coming apart ALSO affects 2V engines, The only reason it affects more 3V engine is because the VCT system has natural oil leakage through the Spool Valves in the Solenoids & the VCT Phasers themselves.Loss of pressure/volume at the tensioner bodies compounds the leakage that already there, Leaky Oil Pump plates don't help either.
*The Chains & Guides are oiled by the Tensioners via a orifice in the Plunger, The Tensioning Guides have a corresponding orifice to oil the Chain & Guide.

I haven't seen many '08 & up 3V 5.4L engines with bad guides or galled camshaft journals, Blown out Tensioner seals & failed Rockers as a result of lost oil volume is still an issue.

The failure rate of '04-'07 5.4L 3V's is PLENTY high enough, I don't know the percentage & would argue that no one actually knows.....I've never seen/heard of anyone report a failure to any entity!
Posted By: gfh77665

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 10:43 AM

That's an excellent post Cline. I would like to ask you: What should the owner of a high mileage (190K) 2007 F-150 5.4 do if the truck is not currently giving any problems?

Should there be any specific preemptive action performed?
Would any particular viscosity (maybe 10w-30?) or type of oil (like HM) help in any way?
Recommended oil change interval?
Should consider selling truck anyway?

Any general advice would be greatly appreciated.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 04:12 PM

fastznsn, thanks for sharing you're oil weight experiences; I'm still thinking a good 5w30 changed at reasonable intervals is the route i'm taking.

Update on the motor too:

I got some news that I thought wasn't good but turned out to be good.... The OEM long blocks are on 6-8 week backorder, so the warranty company is going with an engine from a supplier "Dahmer Powertrain". I wasn't too thrilled with this as I want a motor with updated quality parts.

I decided to call dahmer and much to my surprise, they use the same supplier as Ford does; AER!! So it's the same engine as the oem but with a catch; it actually has a better warranty. 3yr/100K vs what Ford offers which is 2yr/24K. I'm stoked to say the least.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/16/19 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Here are a couple more examples just using 2005 as a random comparison.



Still your not getting close to the industry average of failure also your example is complaints mostly about engine "noise". Also it's just a model there is nothing about which engine.


The noise is usually what precedes impending failure. Also the gm example also doesn't list which engine. In GM's case most will be a 5.3 or 4.8 (basically the same engine either way) and in Ford's case the majority are probably 5.4.

As I said, very few people actually make a complaint about a failure which is evidenced by the very small amount of complaints for the 2005 Silverado compared to the Ford. This is the type of difference you see when you compare a failure prone vs a non failure prone engine.

It would be the same result if you go and check the rate of engine failures on a 2011 Hyundai sonata vs a 2011 Corolla or Camry. Or rate of transmission failures on a Ford focus vs a Toyota Corolla for example.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/17/19 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by gfh77665
That's an excellent post Cline. I would like to ask you: What should the owner of a high mileage (190K) 2007 F-150 5.4 do if the truck is not currently giving any problems?

Should there be any specific preemptive action performed?
Would any particular viscosity (maybe 10w-30?) or type of oil (like HM) help in any way?
Recommended oil change interval?
Should consider selling truck anyway?

Any general advice would be greatly appreciated.


A good quality 5w30 or 10w30 at @ 5,000 mile intervals is about all you can do besides preemptively replacing the Chains, Guides, Tensioners, VCT Phasers & Oil Pump, Melling for the Oil Pump & Ford OE for everything else.
A lot of VCT Solenoids are replaced for no reason.....I clean them & put them back in service.

I pull the cab off the truck & charge 11.8 hours labor, Book time on the oil pump alone is 14.2 hours.....But using different techniques, Combining labor operations, And the fact I've done so many....I can cut the customer a break & still hit my efficiency target of 120%.

My grandfather had a saying, He was a Mechanic, Shop owner, & Trucking company owner......"You can trim a customer all you want, BUT.....You only skin them once."

What's $2,000-$2,500 compared to a new truck? Or even a used truck in this market? Though the 4R75W won't last forever & would be more inclined to spend money on a newer truck equipped with a 6R80.
Posted By: gfh77665

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/17/19 08:36 AM

Thanks again Cline. I am trying to learn all I can about my 2007 F-150. The truck runs and sounds great -- for the moment. I am aware it is a ticking time bomb. I cannot justify spending $2500 on a $5000 work truck. My local mechanic suggested 10w-30 HM oil, like MaxLife. He tells me "If he was going to guess, I should easily get another 50K out of it". It currently has 190K. He sounded pretty confident, but I think he might be overly optimistic.

Final question: in your experience, is reaching 250K even a possiblity here? Or would you think failure is almost imminent? If so, I am putting it up for sale.
Posted By: panthermike

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/17/19 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by gfh77665
Thanks again Cline. I am trying to learn all I can about my 2007 F-150. The truck runs and sounds great -- for the moment. I am aware it is a ticking time bomb. I cannot justify spending $2500 on a $5000 work truck. My local mechanic suggested 10w-30 HM oil, like MaxLife. He tells me "If he was going to guess, I should easily get another 50K out of it". It currently has 190K. He sounded pretty confident, but I think he might be overly optimistic.

Final question: in your experience, is reaching 250K even a possiblity here? Or would you think failure is almost imminent? If so, I am putting it up for sale.


I'm sure cline will answer here but my two cents are that if you are not currently having any issues keep changing it regularly with that 30w I think you'll make it. My brother is up to either 175 or 180K with poor maintenance on his'07 and that truck still runs really well. There are quite a few examples of people with 250 or 300 on these.
Posted By: caprice_2nv

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/17/19 03:03 PM

The shop I worked in replaced a vct solenoid in one that we figured the engine was toast (running terrible and knocking). Maybe the solenoid could have been cleaned and they didn't realize it, but still it was only a couple hundred dollar repair once they diagnosed it and replaced the solenoid.

I wouldn't be surprised if the engine itself did go [censored] up not too long after (if the solenoid plugged up then probably oiling holes in the engine are plugging up too). But at least the repair bought the guy some time. He was actually an employee of our company (our parts store division) otherwise it may have gone to the Ford dealer.
Posted By: clinebarger

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/18/19 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by gfh77665
Thanks again Cline. I am trying to learn all I can about my 2007 F-150. The truck runs and sounds great -- for the moment. I am aware it is a ticking time bomb. I cannot justify spending $2500 on a $5000 work truck. My local mechanic suggested 10w-30 HM oil, like MaxLife. He tells me "If he was going to guess, I should easily get another 50K out of it". It currently has 190K. He sounded pretty confident, but I think he might be overly optimistic.

Final question: in your experience, is reaching 250K even a possiblity here? Or would you think failure is almost imminent? If so, I am putting it up for sale.


Being a Mechanic....Everything I see is broke LOL. However I can just about promise you the Tensioner Seals are blown out. Poor maintenance has little or nothing to do with the seals. Pressure, Time, & Heat is all it takes.
*The lowest mileage one I've seen with blown seals had @ 90K miles.
*The Highest mileage one with intact seals had @ 160K miles.

Another 50K is a possibility especially if the engine is quiet, You could have the oil pressure checked @ HOT idle in gear....This is the best indicator of internal oil pressure loss.
Ford specs a minimum of 15 psi, I like to see no lower than 20 psi.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

Re: 5.4 3V New motor- 5w30 or 0w40? - 08/25/19 08:42 AM

OP, what's the current status with the engine replacement?
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