Why is Mobil 1 ESP Formula is not SN PLUS?

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I know that Mobil 1 ESP Formula is one of the best engine oil's that you can find out there, but I really don't understand why It's not rated as SN Plus? I also found that some information is not mentioned on the bottle.

For example, ACEA C2, C3; is only written on the bottle

[Linked Image]



While in the PDF Specification sheet they have ACEA A5/B5

[Linked Image]



could it be that the label is out of date? or it's different for each country?

Thanks
 
As far as I know, currently there is no Euro (ACEA) oil that has SN PLUS or any other LSPI-protection certification.

With that said, in about a year, there will be new ACEA categories (A6/B5 and G6) with LSPI protection:

Originally Posted by Gokhan
ACEA has been working on LSPI protection. LSPI protection is not part of any ACEA oil yet but it will be included in the next ACEA iteration.

ACEA 2018 is expected to be released in mid-2020 or later and a new A6/B5 or G6 category for TGDI engines that includes LSPI protection and timing-chain-wear protection is expected. An overcomplicated oil-specification system gets even more complicated. The second law of thermodynamics is in action.

https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/introducing-acea-2018-light-duty-oil-sequences/

It sounds like the ACEA specs evolve much slower than the ILSAC/API and OEM specs.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...and-emissions-considerations#Post5105186
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
As far as I know, currently there is no Euro (ACEA) oil that has SN PLUS or any other LSPI-protection certification.

With that said, in about a year, there will be new ACEA categories (A6/B5 and G6) with LSPI protection:

Originally Posted by Gokhan
ACEA has been working on LSPI protection. LSPI protection is not part of any ACEA oil yet but it will be included in the next ACEA iteration.

ACEA 2018 is expected to be released in mid-2020 or later and a new A6/B5 or G6 category for TGDI engines that includes LSPI protection and timing-chain-wear protection is expected. An overcomplicated oil-specification system gets even more complicated. The second law of thermodynamics is in action.

https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/introducing-acea-2018-light-duty-oil-sequences/

It sounds like the ACEA specs evolve much slower than the ILSAC/API and OEM specs.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...and-emissions-considerations#Post5105186



So what does that mean in regards to cars that require SN Plus spec? That this oil is not preferable to use in them?
 
Originally Posted by John344
For example, ACEA C2, C3; is only written on the bottle

...

While in the PDF Specification sheet they have ACEA A5/B5

...

could it be that the label is out of date? or it's different for each country?

Thanks

No, the label is up-to-date. They say "engine-test requirements" only, which means other requirements are not met. For example ACEA C3 has a minimum HTHS viscosity requirement of 3.5 cP and that's a maximum for ACEA A5/B5, which makes them incompatible and mutually exclusive oil specs. Also, the additive chemical limits (SAPS) are often incompatible and mutually exclusive because A5/B5 is full-SAPS and C2/C3 is mid-SAPS. Again, it passes the engine tests but doesn't necessarily meet the other specs such as HTHS viscosity or SAPS levels.
 
Originally Posted by John344
So what does that mean in regards to cars that require SN Plus spec? That this oil is not preferable to use in them?

The only difference between SN and SN PLUS is LSPI protection, which only applies to TGDI engines.

Mainly SN PLUS uses a more modern detergent (Ca & Mg mixed) but if you don't have a TGDI engine, you may not necessarily see a benefit.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by John344
So what does that mean in regards to cars that require SN Plus spec? That this oil is not preferable to use in them?

The only difference between SN and SN PLUS is LSPI protection, which only applies to TGDI engines.

Mainly SN PLUS uses a more modern detergent (Ca & Mg mixed) but if you don't have a TGDI engine, you may not necessarily see a benefit.


My 2019 Kia Cadenza has a GDI engine? what does that mean in my case? and should I use a different brand of oil? in the manual, they say to use oil that exceeds ACEA A5 or Higher.
 
Because they did not certify it. Almost every non-race formula of Mobil ! follows the low calcium non-LSPI oil formula that Mobil uses and other do. I am running it specifically for its non-LSPI formulation in my 2018 Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T that I feel had 1 LSPI event with FF, and 87 octane. I get 17 psi boost at 1,450 rpm. I have massive fuel dilution here in Minnesota and all my travels short trips. No way am I starting out at 9.X@100C I need to start out at 13.0 and I want to be at or over 3.5 HTHS. I am on boost more then most. I don't want to run Hyundai's mileage oil. Plus Hyundai gives rights to use ANY 5w-40 in their turbos, since they do not call out any specs for 5w-40 oil. When my Mobil1 ESP runs out, I think I will be running Chervon Delo XSP 5w-40 in my Hyundai turbo.
 
Originally Posted by Mainia
Because they did not certify it. Almost every non-race formula of Mobil ! follows the low calcium non-LSPI oil formula that Mobil uses and other do. I am running it specifically for its non-LSPI formulation in my 2018 Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T that I feel had 1 LSPI event with FF, and 87 octane. I get 17 psi boost at 1,450 rpm. I have massive fuel dilution here in Minnesota and all my travels short trips. No way am I starting out at 9.X@100C I need to start out at 13.0 and I want to be at or over 3.5 HTHS. I am on boost more then most. I don't want to run Hyundai's mileage oil. Plus Hyundai gives rights to use ANY 5w-40 in their turbos, since they do not call out any specs for 5w-40 oil. When my Mobil1 ESP runs out, I think I will be running Chervon Delo XSP 5w-40 in my Hyundai turbo.


5W-40 is also mentioned in the manual but I didn't find it at my local store so I had to use 5W-30, The two options for Mobil 1 brand that I found are 5W-30 ESP and 5W-30 X1. I have been told that the ESP is the newer one.
 
Your engine is not TGDI. It's GDI (no turbo). Therefore, you don't need SN PLUS. It's fine if you want to run the thicker (C3) M1 ESP 5W-30 but the regular, thinner (A5/B5) M1 5W-30 or more or less any other oil modern 5W-30 or 10W-30 is sufficient. The thicker you go, the less smooth your engine will feel and the worse your fuel economy will be.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Your engine is not TGDI. It's GDI (no turbo). Therefore, you don't need SN PLUS. It's fine if you want to run the thicker (C3) M1 ESP 5W-30 but the regular, thinner (A5/B5) M1 5W-30 or more or less any other oil modern 5W-30 or 10W-30 is sufficient. The thicker you go, the less smooth your engine will feel and the worse your fuel economy will be.


The only options I have for my car are
Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula => cSt @ 100ºC = 12.1
Mobil 1 5W-30 X1 cSt @ 100ºC = 11.0
Liquify Moly 5W-30 Special Tec LL => cSt @ 100ºC = 11.5


Which one would you suggest to use in your personal opinion? and you think it's the best?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Your engine is not TGDI. It's GDI (no turbo). Therefore, you don't need SN PLUS. It's fine if you want to run the thicker (C3) M1 ESP 5W-30 but the regular, thinner (A5/B5) M1 5W-30 or more or less any other oil modern 5W-30 or 10W-30 is sufficient. The thicker you go, the less smooth your engine will feel and the worse your fuel economy will be.

The only options I have for my car are
Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula => cSt @ 100ºC = 12.1
Mobil 1 5W-30 X1 cSt @ 100ºC = 11.0
Liquify Moly 5W-30 Special Tec LL => cSt @ 100ºC = 11.5


Which one would you suggest to use in your personal opinion? and you think it's the best?

Liquid Moly 5W-30 Special TEC LL is A3/B4, which is full-SAPS. High SAPS (sulfated ash, phosphorus, and sulfur) levels are probably not a good idea for GDI engines, which are prone to intake-valve deposits.

The dexos2 (DPF protection included) Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is C3 and has some ester in it for cleaning and is mid-SAPS, only 0.6% SA as a matter of fact. It's a premium oil. It's the best choice if you really care about engine and intake-valve deposits.

The dexos1 Gen 2 (TGDI LSPI protection included) Mobil 1 5W-30 X1 is A5/B5 and the SA is a little higher at 0.8% but is still considered mid-SAPS. It will work, too. Your engine will probably feel smoother with it because the HTHS viscosity is 3.1 cP vs. the 3.5 cP of the ESP. Fuel economy will be a little higher as well.

So, choose one of the M1s according to your price, fuel-economy, and engine-deposits criteria.
 
*Good Points - I have a Hyundai 2.4L GDI engine (non turbo) so I'm not worried about LSPI .
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by John344
So what does that mean in regards to cars that require SN Plus spec? That this oil is not preferable to use in them?

The only difference between SN and SN PLUS is LSPI protection, which only applies to TGDI engines.

Mainly SN PLUS uses a more modern detergent (Ca & Mg mixed) but if you don't have a TGDI engine, you may not necessarily see a benefit.
 
*What about Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ? Is it a low or mid SAPS oil ? Would it be equivalent to M1 ESP ?
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Your engine is not TGDI. It's GDI (no turbo). Therefore, you don't need SN PLUS. It's fine if you want to run the thicker (C3) M1 ESP 5W-30 but the regular, thinner (A5/B5) M1 5W-30 or more or less any other oil modern 5W-30 or 10W-30 is sufficient. The thicker you go, the less smooth your engine will feel and the worse your fuel economy will be.


The only options I have for my car are
Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Formula => cSt @ 100ºC = 12.1
Mobil 1 5W-30 X1 cSt @ 100ºC = 11.0
Liquify Moly 5W-30 Special Tec LL => cSt @ 100ºC = 11.5


Which one would you suggest to use in your personal opinion? and you think it's the best?
 
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*What about Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ?


Perhaps he cannot get Pennzoil in Oman?
 
Doesn't anyone else find it curious the bottle of Mobil 1 he posted is only in English and .......Polish?

It doesn't seem like they shipped the right oil to your market.
 
Why are you concerned with API SN+?

It's either suitable for your car or not, based on the myriad of other specifications that the oil carries. How many cars call out API SN+ as their only requirement?
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
How many cars call out API SN+ as their only requirement?


None that come to my mind - though I really do not follow "new" cars at all.
 
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*What about Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ? Is it a low or mid SAPS oil ? Would it be equivalent to M1 ESP ?

Low-SAPS oils are C1 and C4, which are very rare. C2, C3, and C5 are mid-SAPS.

PP Euro L 5W-30 is C3; so, it's mid-SAPS.

Ideally, with a GDI (or TGDI) engine, you want the VW 504.00 spec, which has an engine test for intake-valve deposits. VW 504.00 combines a superior base oil (such as partially ester as in M1 ESP) with lower SAPS to achieve less intake-valve deposits. M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 and PP Euro LX 0W-30 have the VW 504.00.
 
Originally Posted by John344
I know that Mobil 1 ESP Formula is one of the best engine oil's that you can find out there, but I really don't understand why It's not rated as SN Plus? I also found that some information is not mentioned on the bottle.
For example, ACEA C2, C3; is only written on the bottle
[Linked Image]

While in the PDF Specification sheet they have ACEA A5/B5
could it be that the label is out of date? or it's different for each country?
Thanks

The oil shown was bottled in June 2017...SN+ oils were not available until mid 2018.
That oil is older than the released version of the spec, although it has been under development for a long time.

M1 5W30 ESP Formula doesn't seem to be available in the US anymore, it was replaced M1 ESP 5W30 (yeah, not confusing at all!).
The new oil isn't SN+, either, according to the XOM website. No idea if it couldn't meet it or XOM just chose not to test to it.
At least M1 10W30 HM is an SN+ oil available in the US with an elevated HTHS for its grade, no idea if that is an option in Oman!
I was thinking that a HM oil might be a bad idea for my "new" car and then realized I am over 100kmiles...wow.
 
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