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Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information

Posted By: pilot1226

Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 12:31 AM

Hi all,

I am considering one of the new third row Subaru SUVís soon, the Subaru Ascent. It is powered by the FA24 direct injection turbo engine. The engine is new but built on the existing FA20 that is in Forester XT and WRXís.

My concern is the volatility and evaporability of the genuine Subaru 0w20, which is what I will be using. The oil is made by Idemitsu corporation but I donít know the specifics. Subaru has been using 0w20 in the FB series engines since around 2013, and this is the first turbo that calls for 0w20 (the FA20 requires 5w30).

The reason of my concern is because the volatility and Noack seems to be linked to carbon buildup on the DI motors in general, so I am trying to see if I can find one with a low Noack, under 7%.

Thanks!
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 12:49 AM

Under 7% is tough to get in a 0w20. https://www.ravenol.de/uploads/tx_ravenol/pdf-print/RAVENOL_DFE_SAE_0W20_1.pdf should be available in the U.S. soon. Not sure when. It's 7.6%. All PAO+POE base oil formula, expensive stuff, but with lots of spec qualifications to use for Subaru warranty purposes.
Easier to get and cheaper is Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20, which should have a NOACK at least somewhat close to the 5w30's 8.5%. I don't know what would be better other than the Ravenol DFE.
Posted By: nike360baller

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Under 7% is tough to get in a 0w20. https://www.ravenol.de/uploads/tx_ravenol/pdf-print/RAVENOL_DFE_SAE_0W20_1.pdf should be available in the U.S. soon. Not sure when. It's 7.6%. All PAO+POE base oil formula, expensive stuff, but with lots of spec qualificati to use for Subaru warranty purposes.
Easier to get and cheaper is Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20, which should have a NOACK at least somewhat close to the 5w30's 8.5%. I don't know what would be better other than the Ravenol DFE.

I liked this post as it kinda opened my eyes to the Mobil 1 AP or Annual Protection but namely the 0w-20.
Posted By: TTK

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 01:23 AM

Mobil does not publish NOACK values. Top of the line Amsoil 0w-20 is 8.5; Redline 0w-20 is 9
Posted By: mx5miata

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 01:34 AM

Maybe they recommend the 0w20 for fuel economy. I feel its a sacrafice of protection 5w30 should be the norm on turbocharged engines.
Posted By: benjy

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 02:00 AM

as usual its all about the mpg's to meet, as subaru's are not known for better mpg's. i would look into a 5-20 or better yet 5-30 that meets the specs for warranty purposes. generally the owners manual will list several accepted viscosities depending on the temps in your operating area + how you use the vehicle. girlfriends 2013 2.5 DI malibu was using a qt on a thou of the spec 5-20 oil + switching to a 10-30 reduced consumption to very little. the 10-30 was not dexos approved but a 5-30 was + not being a real synthetic the first # is the base oil. going to redline's 5-30 gives a better HTHS as well as a noack of 6 + its ester base oils are said to handle fuel dilution better which is another DI issue!!
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 02:02 AM

The Ascent should be a winner for Subaru in the fast growing three row crossover segment.

I would not get too hung up on Noack. There is a lot more to oil than volatility. Any of the SN+ / d1G2 oils that meet Subaruís specs will run just fine. I would consider a 5k or 7.5k oci for that engine.

I will admit that with a turbo I would prefer a 5w30 but you will have to abide by the Subaru warranty.
Posted By: pilot1226

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 02:30 AM

Originally Posted By: PimTac
The Ascent should be a winner for Subaru in the fast growing three row crossover segment.

I would not get too hung up on Noack. There is a lot more to oil than volatility. Any of the SN+ / d1G2 oils that meet Subaruís specs will run just fine. I would consider a 5k or 7.5k oci for that engine.

I will admit that with a turbo I would prefer a 5w30 but you will have to abide by the Subaru warranty.


Yes, the concern is that I drop close to 50k on this car I donít want any reason for a warranty issue. That being said Subaru is an exceptional company when it comes to catastrophic repairs out of warranty. They reimburse people when an issue arises in the future. I personally had my torque converter replaced under extended warranty st no cost to me. They donít have to do this. Theyíre a great company.


The Noack is more anti-carbon buildup. I really donít want to have to walnut shell blast this thing every 50k (the new timing belt service?)

Iíve used PUP in my 11 Outback but thatís a different beast as it is NA and a can of Techron will fix whatever is ailing it.

The Ascent manual suggests you can use 5w30 to top off but not to replace the oil.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 02:47 AM

Originally Posted By: pilot1226
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The Ascent should be a winner for Subaru in the fast growing three row crossover segment.

I would not get too hung up on Noack. There is a lot more to oil than volatility. Any of the SN+ / d1G2 oils that meet Subaruís specs will run just fine. I would consider a 5k or 7.5k oci for that engine.

I will admit that with a turbo I would prefer a 5w30 but you will have to abide by the Subaru warranty.


Yes, the concern is that I drop close to 50k on this car I donít want any reason for a warranty issue. That being said Subaru is an exceptional company when it comes to catastrophic repairs out of warranty. They reimburse people when an issue arises in the future. I personally had my torque converter replaced under extended warranty st no cost to me. They donít have to do this. Theyíre a great company.


The Noack is more anti-carbon buildup. I really donít want to have to walnut shell blast this thing every 50k (the new timing belt service?)

Iíve used PUP in my 11 Outback but thatís a different beast as it is NA and a can of Techron will fix whatever is ailing it.

The Ascent manual suggests you can use 5w30 to top off but not to replace the oil.




This is a new engine for Subaru so we will have to wait for any issues like fuel dilution and the such. I agree with your comment. Subaru makes a fine vehicle and you should have no worries running 0w20 if that is what they say.

A lot is going to depend on your driving habits. Obviously, highway miles are easy versus city stop and go. My suggested oci above relates to that. Mostly stop and go or short trips then I would go with 5k oci. If itís solid highway miles then you could go 7.5. Iíd might go 5k at first and see if fuel dilution will be a concern. Of course, if Subaru has their own oci schedule then abide by that.

Let us know if you do buy the Ascent. As I said it should be a big hit for Subaru.
Posted By: HKPolice

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 02:47 AM

NOACK & even oil type does not affect DI carbon buildup. EGR is the main culprit, with fuel quality playing big role in how much soot gets recirculated by the EGR.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...difference_%7C_
Posted By: bluesubie

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 12:07 PM

Subaru is very slow in having their oil updated (or tied up in a contract?). They were late with the switch to SN and theyíll probably be late at reducing calcium. IMO, carbon build-up in 2.0DITís is a bit overblown and shops are doing it as preventative maintenance to make some extra money.

I wouldnít sweat it and wouldnít stress out in trying to find the ďperfect oilĒ. Youíre an Ambassador with a 5/60k Powertrain Warranty.
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 12:18 PM

Here is some info on an Idemitsu 0W20, but I don't know if it's the same as the one that is sold with Subaru branding...they are kind enough to share a NOACK loss result with us, 11.4%

https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/idemitsu/engine-oil/0w-20

I was surprised at first to hear that Subaru is recommending 0W20 for the new 2.4l DIT, but I guess it makes sense from a fleet mileage point of view given that the Ascent should be a big runner for them compared to the niche WRXs and (now discontinued) Forester XT. I wonder how long the V6 Outback is going to be around, don't pay that much attention to that model so maybe it's already on its way out?
Subaru recommended 7.5kmile changes (non-severe duty) for my 2014, but dropped that to 6kmiles the next model year without any apparent changes to the engine...I've been going with 5k.
I am holding out some hope that the 2.4l will show up in a new Forester XT at some point, I figure at the very least it will replace the old 2.5l turbo in the WRX STI.
Posted By: Danh

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 01:41 PM

Others have pointed out that the oil vapors scavenged by the PCV system are largely composed of very fine oil droplets created by all the commotion that goes on in an internal combustion engine. This has little to do with volatility, so a low-Noack oil may not buy you much in this regard.

OEMs have come a long way since the early German DI adopters that had serious intake valve deposits and itís hard to find reports of such issues with the current generation of DI/TGDI engines. Iíd pay attention to potential fuel dilution with your Subaru, but wouldnít spend much time worrying about intake valve deposits.
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: TTK
Mobil does not publish NOACK values. Top of the line Amsoil 0w-20 is 8.5; Redline 0w-20 is 9

http://www.pqiadata.org/Mobil1_Annual_Protection_5W30.html is where I found the M1 AP 5w30 NOACK, not Mobil.
Also, Amsoil Signature Series 0w20 is not API SN approved. The same for Redline. Voids the Subaru warranty, technically. I assmume they might enforce their Owner's Manual in the event of an engine failure. ... Good oils by all accounts, its just that these companies sometimes can't be bothered getting actual spec approvals done. That's why I was saying use Ravenol DFE 0w20 when it comes to America (soon?) if you want an expensive, high performance oil in your engine. M1 Annual Protection is Exxon-Mobil's best effort, and the numbers show it, so it may be worth the little bit extra; and its EZ to get now.
Posted By: racin4ds

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 03:37 PM

Wouldn't catch me putting anything 0W20 in a high HP/liter turbocharged engine no matter what the manual calls for! Unless its a lease and you aren't intending to keep it...
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Wouldn't catch me putting anything 0W20 in a high HP/liter turbocharged engine no matter what the manual calls for! Unless its a lease and you aren't intending to keep it...




Broken record.
Posted By: mpersell

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 04:08 PM

I've got a 2017 Tundra and it calls for 0w20. I run the SS Amsoil 0w20 and I would much rather run the 5w20. Toyota is adamant about 0w20 though. Even to the point of saying if you can't find 0w20, you can run 5w20 for one oil change.

The NOACK on the 0w20 is not where I would like it to be. I will probably try Amsoil SS 5w20 after the warranty is up to see how the VVT works but until then I'm just sitting on my hands.
Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Wouldn't catch me putting anything 0W20 in a high HP/liter turbocharged engine no matter what the manual calls for! Unless its a lease and you aren't intending to keep it...




Broken record.


Me neither. Proven track record of not working even in MY N/A engines and a lot of issues were Subaru Too. I think the Crosstrek with the FB20 was the first Subaru we've had recently that didn't eat oil after a couple years.

NOACK, don't even consider that in choosing a 0w20 oil.
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/06/18 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: mpersell
I've got a 2017 Tundra and it calls for 0w20. I run the SS Amsoil 0w20 and I would much rather run the 5w20. Toyota is adamant about 0w20 though. Even to the point of saying if you can't find 0w20, you can run 5w20 for one oil change.
You just violated your engine warranty. SS Amsoil is not API certified, nor is it SN. Toyota could deny coverage. Not saying they neccesarily would, maybe they wouldn't check or don't care or are in a good mood that day. Just so you know.

For those above concerned about a 0w20 in a turbo engine, just do this: Put in M1 AFE 0w20, except leave room for 1 quart of M1 20w50 V-Twin Motorcyle oil, problem solved. It thickened a bit, but not too much, and you can show receipts for all that 0w20 stuff to meet warranty in case they ever ask.
Posted By: bluesubie

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 01:41 AM

Pilot - Have you seen an ownerís manual or just looked at the oil cap? Iím curious if the language in the ownerís manual will be the same as other current models.
Posted By: Garak

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: mpersell
I've got a 2017 Tundra and it calls for 0w20. I run the SS Amsoil 0w20 and I would much rather run the 5w20. Toyota is adamant about 0w20 though. Even to the point of saying if you can't find 0w20, you can run 5w20 for one oil change.
You just violated your engine warranty. SS Amsoil is not API certified, nor is it SN. Toyota could deny coverage. Not saying they neccesarily would, maybe they wouldn't check or don't care or are in a good mood that day. Just so you know.

I dare you to show that post to Pablo.
Posted By: pilot1226

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 03:57 AM

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Pilot - Have you seen an ownerís manual or just looked at the oil cap? Iím curious if the language in the ownerís manual will be the same as other current models.


Yes the manualís public now on the site. Basically itís 0w20, but if you need to top off you can use other viscosity if you canít find 0w20.

Saw a couple videos on YouTube that describe why Noack is important for DI. Yes EGR is the main issue but if the oil doesnít evaporate youíve got a better oil.
Posted By: mpersell

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 09:28 AM

According to the 2018 data sheets it is API Certified and SN.
Posted By: bluesubie

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: pilot1226
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Pilot - Have you seen an ownerís manual or just looked at the oil cap? Iím curious if the language in the ownerís manual will be the same as other current models.


Yes the manualís public now on the site. Basically itís 0w20, but if you need to top off you can use other viscosity if you canít find 0w20.

Saw a couple videos on YouTube that describe why Noack is important for DI. Yes EGR is the main issue but if the oil doesnít evaporate youíve got a better oil.

Thanks. Language is the same.

https://cdn.subarunet.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/MSA5M1900A_STIS.pdf

Page 446:

Quote:
NOTE
Engine oil viscosity (thickness) affects fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine.


And 483:

Quote:
0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.

*: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-30 conventional oil may be used if replenishment is needed but should be changed to 0W-20 synthetic oil at the next oil change.


As per the other manuals, they do not clearly define what is considered "hot temps" or "thicker viscosity". Also, only 0W-20 is noted on the viscosity chart.

Even if there are conditions/applications where a 5W-30 would be a better fit, the numbers are probably small compared to paying CAFE fines or giving up CAFE credits when the entire Subaru fleet is considered. Try to get SoA to provide clarity on the hot temps and thicker viscosity and they will tell you to use 0W-20. In stock form, the 2.0 DIT's have been showing low uoa wear metals on very short intervals despite having fuel dilution of 2-5%.

If your concern is more volatility and IVD over viscosity, I really wouldn't sweat it. Although, if you intend to keep it beyond the Powertrain Warranty, I would definitely consider an extended warranty from Subaru and resist any mods (e.g. Cobb Stage I). Especially on a first year turbo. Being a beta tester for Subaru definitely affected my wallet. You should look up Dyson Analysis if you intend to get into uoa's. His guidance would be very valuable. Or just do oil changes every 3,000 miles and save money on uoa's.
Posted By: oil_film_movies

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: mpersell
According to the 2018 data sheets it is API Certified and SN.
They fooled you. That is their goal. They say "can be used for", which is not the same as "this oil is certified officially". So it's Amsoil saying their oil is good enough, period.

Originally Posted By: Garak
I dare you to show that post to Pablo.
Why? Pablo knows Signature Series oil is not SN or API. The question is whether Subaru or Toyota or any automaker would deny warranty coverage in the event of an engine failure because the owner did not follow the Owner's Manual instructions to use an actual SN API oil. Besides, one could avoid the SS Amsoil and just use the lesser XL or OE Amsoil brews if the Owner's Manual requires an SN oil (note no dexos1 though).
Posted By: kschachn

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 04:47 PM

One can also check the API directory at:

https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch
Posted By: kaesees

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 05:17 PM

I think the FA24 has a much less aggressive tune and lower boost pressure than the FA20 - the specific power is substantially lower. I assume they wanted the whole system to be less stressed due to the different market segment, as well as the tow rating requirements than an Ascent has that a WRX doesn't.

While I would rather have a 3.0L or 3.6L NA 6-cylinder boxer than a 2.4L turbo 4-cylinder boxer if I were going to be towing regularly, I can understand that fuel economy requirements have forced their hand here. Hopefully the beefed-up CVT they developed for this behemoth can hold up long-term. Are they planning on mating a transmission cooler to it?
Posted By: Garak

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/07/18 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Why? Pablo knows Signature Series oil is not SN or API. The question is whether Subaru or Toyota or any automaker would deny warranty coverage in the event of an engine failure because the owner did not follow the Owner's Manual instructions to use an actual SN API oil. Besides, one could avoid the SS Amsoil and just use the lesser XL or OE Amsoil brews if the Owner's Manual requires an SN oil (note no dexos1 though).

An engine failure, where such failure was called by oil. If an engine is spitting out spark plugs, for instance, I don't think an OEM is going to have much of a leg to stand on to deny warranty based upon SN 0w-20 versus SS 0w-20.
Posted By: d00df00d

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/08/18 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: TTK
Mobil does not publish NOACK values. Top of the line Amsoil 0w-20 is 8.5; Redline 0w-20 is 9

Luckily, PQIA has tested a couple of Mobil 1 0W-20s.

Two tests of plain-Jane Mobil 1 0W-20:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/exmoM1.htm
http://www.pqiadata.org/Mobil10W20dexos.html

And one of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-20:
http://www.pqiadata.org/Mobil1_0W20_dexos.html

Noacks from 10.1% to 10.7%.
Posted By: ka9mnx

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/08/18 10:03 AM

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: pilot1226
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Pilot - Have you seen an ownerís manual or just looked at the oil cap? Iím curious if the language in the ownerís manual will be the same as other current models.


Yes the manualís public now on the site. Basically itís 0w20, but if you need to top off you can use other viscosity if you canít find 0w20.

Saw a couple videos on YouTube that describe why Noack is important for DI. Yes EGR is the main issue but if the oil doesnít evaporate youíve got a better oil.

Thanks. Language is the same.

https://cdn.subarunet.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/MSA5M1900A_STIS.pdf

Page 446:

Quote:
NOTE
Engine oil viscosity (thickness) affects fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine.


And 483:

Quote:
0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.

*: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-30 conventional oil may be used if replenishment is needed but should be changed to 0W-20 synthetic oil at the next oil change.


As per the other manuals, they do not clearly define what is considered "hot temps" or "thicker viscosity". Also, only 0W-20 is noted on the viscosity chart.

Even if there are conditions/applications where a 5W-30 would be a better fit, the numbers are probably small compared to paying CAFE fines or giving up CAFE credits when the entire Subaru fleet is considered. Try to get SoA to provide clarity on the hot temps and thicker viscosity and they will tell you to use 0W-20. In stock form, the 2.0 DIT's have been showing low uoa wear metals on very short intervals despite having fuel dilution of 2-5%.

If your concern is more volatility and IVD over viscosity, I really wouldn't sweat it. Although, if you intend to keep it beyond the Powertrain Warranty, I would definitely consider an extended warranty from Subaru and resist any mods (e.g. Cobb Stage I). Especially on a first year turbo. Being a beta tester for Subaru definitely affected my wallet. You should look up Dyson Analysis if you intend to get into uoa's. His guidance would be very valuable. Or just do oil changes every 3,000 miles and save money on uoa's.



On June 26, 2000 the EPA replied in a letter to Ford and Honda to a request to use SAE 5w-20, GF-3 oil for certification in fuel economy and emission testing. In the letter the EPA stated that they would grant the request but they were quite specific about the requirements that Ford and Honda must meet. In general:

1. No other oil can be recommended or suggested in the owners manual. It must specify SAE 5w-20, GF-3.
2. SAE 5w-20, GF-3 must be available from the dealer.
3. SAE 5w-20, GF-3 must be available from quick lube shops.
4. SAE 5w-20, GF-3 must be available from retail stores.

I have a copy of this letter but I cannot find a link to it on the net (where I got it from).
Posted By: pilot1226

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/12/18 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: kaesees
I think the FA24 has a much less aggressive tune and lower boost pressure than the FA20 - the specific power is substantially lower. I assume they wanted the whole system to be less stressed due to the different market segment, as well as the tow rating requirements than an Ascent has that a WRX doesn't.

While I would rather have a 3.0L or 3.6L NA 6-cylinder boxer than a 2.4L turbo 4-cylinder boxer if I were going to be towing regularly, I can understand that fuel economy requirements have forced their hand here. Hopefully the beefed-up CVT they developed for this behemoth can hold up long-term. Are they planning on mating a transmission cooler to it?


Yes, it's tuned for 87 rather than 93 like the FA20DIT's, and the CVT is tuned to maintain around 2000-2500 RPM since this provides excellent torque. As you suggested, the market for the Ascent is generally people not looking to vroom vroom - that's what the 'Rex is for. However, they've also discontinued the Foz XT going forward, meaning you'll only find the FA20DIT in the 'Rex going forward. For now.

The CVT itself requires a specific and unique CVTF compared to the High-Torque CVT fluids found in the 3.6R (OB, Legacy) and the HTCVT in the 'Rex and XT's. From what I understand, it does have a transmission cooler - there's a difference in towing capacity between the Base and higher trims that I think comes into play because of this - but the Ascent forums are peering over a bunch of articles in which we thought there was a second transmission cooler which is appearing to be more of an oil-air separator of some kind, which is going to also help limit the issues related to DI and carbon buildup.

@Jag posted an interesting thread about a "carbon cleaning" type of Valvoline oil going forward, since it's his assertion (probably correct) that modern oils don't "reverse" the carbon deposits but are designed to "prevent" said deposits, so I'd be curious if there's something like this down the road (years and years).

I'm not looking to buy at the moment, as a better financial time would be sometime after next Spring (2019) because of other expenses I have going, including the Mrs.'s car payment, but, I'd be planning on getting an extended warranty regardless to protect myself from catastrophic damage. So, I'd get the $100 or $250 deductible program out to 100k miles and 10 years backed by Subaru itself.

It's also worth noting that Subaru is the type of car company that just might extend everyone's warranty out to 10/100 for powertrain components as needed because of unforeseen issues. I'm a perfect example of that - they just replaced my torque converter, at 85k miles and 7 years of ownership, for free because of an extended warranty. I have one of the first generation Lineatronic CVT's in the Outback. It was great customer-forward thinking that saved me from having to spend around $2000 on a car that's KBB'ed around $8000.

Peace of mind is worth something too. I may just run OEM Idemitsu oil in it for a while, even if I do the changes myself. From what I remember from looking at other UOA's, the OEM Idemitsu oil is generally good stuff, with good specs - but we don't know how it'll run in a FA24DIT yet since they haven't been launched yet.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/12/18 05:09 PM

My parent's neighbor has one on order - if anything Subaru should have learned from the FB20/25 oil consumption issues and the EJ2xT boost issues but the FA24 is entering new territory even for them but I don't think the typical Ascent owner will flash over PCM with a Cobb or Vishnu tune.

Idemitsu's plain-jane moly 0-20 has a lower NOACK value than their D1G2 oil and it was me, I'd run only D1G2 oils. If I had one, I might even consider a xw-30. Subaru Japan is selling a Total-made 0w-30 that has their blessing across the line.

I'm personally looking forward to the new XV Crosstrek Hybrid that supposedly uses the battery and on-board charging architecture as the Prius Prime, and I assume a Subaru-adapted Lexus GS450h/LS600hL drive unit. Not looking to buy, I want to plan ahead for the next 10 years first.
Posted By: pilot1226

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/12/18 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: nthach
My parent's neighbor has one on order - if anything Subaru should have learned from the FB20/25 oil consumption issues and the EJ2xT boost issues but the FA24 is entering new territory even for them but I don't think the typical Ascent owner will flash over PCM with a Cobb or Vishnu tune.

Idemitsu's plain-jane moly 0-20 has a lower NOACK value than their D1G2 oil and it was me, I'd run only D1G2 oils. If I had one, I might even consider a xw-30. Subaru Japan is selling a Total-made 0w-30 that has their blessing across the line.

I'm personally looking forward to the new XV Crosstrek Hybrid that supposedly uses the battery and on-board charging architecture as the Prius Prime, and I assume a Subaru-adapted Lexus GS450h/LS600hL drive unit. Not looking to buy, I want to plan ahead for the next 10 years first.


The oil consumption on the 25, I believe, was caused primarily by bad oil control rings which they ended up changing the supply company. I think.
Posted By: d00df00d

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/12/18 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Under 7% is tough to get in a 0w20. https://www.ravenol.de/uploads/tx_ravenol/pdf-print/RAVENOL_DFE_SAE_0W20_1.pdf should be available in the U.S. soon. Not sure when. It's 7.6%. All PAO+POE base oil formula, expensive stuff, but with lots of spec qualifications to use for Subaru warranty purposes.
Easier to get and cheaper is Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20, which should have a NOACK at least somewhat close to the 5w30's 8.5%. I don't know what would be better other than the Ravenol DFE.

FWIW, Ravenol ECS is a hair under that at 7.4%.
Posted By: pilot1226

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/14/18 03:01 PM

Interesting. Perhaps even pursuing an SN+ type of oil is better yet, since that helps with LSPI events, which are bad bad bad for a turbo.
Posted By: nthach

Re: Subaru Genuine 0w20 & Noack information - 06/14/18 05:43 PM

I think D1G2 oils will be just fine, IIRC GM set even higher standards with dexos compared to API SN+.

Kendall, Warren(via ServicePro and a few of the brands they supply), SOPUS and Castrol are already rolling out SN+ oils especially in high mileage. The HM stuff isn't D1G2 approved, probably for the sake of pricing as GM via CQA wants a licensing fee and testing.
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