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Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week

Posted By: Crashpuppy

Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 12:11 PM

Greetings all,

For my first post, I thought I'd let Castrol fans know that new PDS's dated this week are up on the Castrol US website, at least for GTX Magnatec 0W-20, 5W-20 and 5W-30. Aside from the news that all three now meet both D1G2 and the new SN Plus specs, the company has actually provided NOACK numbers:
0W-20 - 11.8
5W-20 - 9.7
5W-30 - 8.9 (not bad, even for GDI and T-GDI engines)

FWIW, I have been using GTX Magnatec in my port-injected '17 Elantra SE since I dumped the factory fill at 1,800 miles. Two runs of about 3,000 miles each (new car warranty requirements, you know), first on 5W-20 D1 and now on 5W-30 D1G2, with OEM filter. It has been very quiet and smooth on both, and overall gas mileage has been right in line with EPA estimates - no small accomplishment on our chronically clogged and torn up Pittsburgh area roads, which is basically all the car ever sees.

I'm really happy with it, and for the price for a 5 quart jug at Wally World, I think it's pretty hard to beat for a not-very-demanding, old-dirt driver who wants to use a modern full synthetic without having to tap the 401(k) to do it.

Enough rambling for a first-time BITOGer...
Posted By: Danh

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 12:44 PM

Thanks for posting. First major brand 0w-20 I've seen that claims an HTHS over 2.7 (TDS says 2.75). Going the extra decimal point is interesting. Middling Noack but still looks like a good choice.
Posted By: CT8

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 12:59 PM

GP III oils.
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 01:11 PM

I have some 5w30 going in my Tacoma in a couple of weeks. The specification for the 10w30 is awesome too but it is currently unobtainable for a decent price. Maybe a new run will be hitting retailers.
Posted By: Onug

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 03:07 PM

Anyone know if the oil formulation was changed or if the existing mix just passed the tests? I’ve got 30qts of the “full” synthetic 5W-30 in my garage and curious if it meets these latest standards.
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Onug
Anyone know if the oil formulation was changed or if the existing mix just passed the tests? I’ve got 30qts of the “full” synthetic 5W-30 in my garage and curious if it meets these latest standards.


I believe it should have changed, since Magnatec had high Ca and little or no Mg.
Posted By: wemay

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: CT8
GP III oils.


Not a surprise. It's priced below Edge.

Op, thanks for info. Good stuff.
Posted By: Onug

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Onug
Anyone know if the oil formulation was changed or if the existing mix just passed the tests? I’ve got 30qts of the “full” synthetic 5W-30 in my garage and curious if it meets these latest standards.


I believe it should have changed, since Magnatec had high Ca and little or no Mg.


I’m thinking the same thing. Guess we will have to wait for the first analysis with the new designation.
Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 06:04 PM

When is Castrol going to get real rebates I have plenty of hats?
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Onug
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Onug
Anyone know if the oil formulation was changed or if the existing mix just passed the tests? I’ve got 30qts of the “full” synthetic 5W-30 in my garage and curious if it meets these latest standards.


I believe it should have changed, since Magnatec had high Ca and little or no Mg.


I’m thinking the same thing. Guess we will have to wait for the first analysis with the new designation.


At the end of the day, the VOA doesn’t really matter. What matters is the d1g2 license and label on the bottle.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: CT8
GP III oils.


Not a surprise. It's priced below Edge.

Op, thanks for info. Good stuff.


Is Castrol Edge better base stock than Group III?
Posted By: double vanos

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 09:04 PM

First off, welcome !!! So what if Magnatec is a Grp 3 product? After seeing KJ Smiths’ UOAs on his Ecoboost truck taken at nearly 10k miles, I’d say this Grp 3 oil is just fine for our consumption. I’m using it in the wife’s EB Expedition. One thing about it though, it has a smell to it that makes it seem to be rich with additives. Any other Magnatec users notice that?
Posted By: The_Nuke

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 09:50 PM

Any mention of magnets?

Their hokey displays at Walmart certainly use them to try to sell the product
Posted By: wemay

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: double vanos
First off, welcome !!! So what if Magnatec is a Grp 3 product? After seeing KJ Smiths’ UOAs on his Ecoboost truck taken at nearly 10k miles, I’d say this Grp 3 oil is just fine for our consumption. I’m using it in the wife’s EB Expedition. One thing about it though, it has a smell to it that makes it seem to be rich with additives. Any other Magnatec users notice that?


Agreed
Posted By: SR5

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 11:46 PM

Welcome !!!
Castrol Magnatec is one of the best bang-for-your-buck oils out there.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: SR5
Welcome !!!
Castrol Magnatec is one of the best bang-for-your-buck oils out there.




Exactly. Considering the stellar analysis reports we’ve seen here, I wonder about the value of Edge except in extended oci instances with the Gold bottle.
Posted By: John_Dude

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/26/18 11:54 PM

These numbers are wrong.
5w30 has 100c viscosity of 10.46 and 10w30 is 11.6 cst

As per the Castrol site currently
Posted By: PimTac

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 12:01 AM

Op’s Numbers are NOACK numbers.
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 12:35 AM

I find it nice they are including HTHS actual numbers rather than listing the specification minimu
Posted By: cheesepuffs

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 03:41 AM

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: CT8
GP III oils.


Not a surprise. It's priced below Edge.

Op, thanks for info. Good stuff.


Is Castrol Edge better base stock than Group III?


Says on the Safety Data Sheet that Edge is hydrotreated basestock, so it’s also Group III. I see Edge as being a poor value compared to say Pennzoil Platinum with its GTL basestock or even Mobil 1 EP for maybe a few dollars more that contains PAO/Group IV.
Posted By: wemay

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 11:11 AM

Sorry if i wasn't clear since that was my point too. Not that Edge (black) is GrpIV, but that Magnatec is priced lower so it should be a Grp III as well. Either way, they both work. Here are the EDGE (black) 10w30 and 5w30 numbers...






Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 02:57 PM

They both look pretty good to me.
Posted By: Triple_Se7en

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Crashpuppy
Greetings all,

For my first post, I thought I'd let Castrol fans know that new PDS's dated this week are up on the Castrol US website, at least for GTX Magnatec 0W-20, 5W-20 and 5W-30. Aside from the news that all three now meet both D1G2 and the new SN Plus specs, the company has actually provided NOACK numbers:
0W-20 - 11.8
5W-20 - 9.7
5W-30 - 8.9 (not bad, even for GDI and T-GDI engines)

FWIW, I have been using GTX Magnatec in my port-injected '17 Elantra SE since I dumped the factory fill at 1,800 miles. Two runs of about 3,000 miles each (new car warranty requirements, you know), first on 5W-20 D1 and now on 5W-30 D1G2, with OEM filter. It has been very quiet and smooth on both, and overall gas mileage has been right in line with EPA estimates - no small accomplishment on our chronically clogged and torn up Pittsburgh area roads, which is basically all the car ever sees.

I'm really happy with it, and for the price for a 5 quart jug at Wally World, I think it's pretty hard to beat for a not-very-demanding, old-dirt driver who wants to use a modern full synthetic without having to tap the 401(k) to do it.


There once was a time here at BITOG and not that many years ago, when it was a sin to announce that GrpIII was a full-synthetic oil.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: wemay
Here are the EDGE (black) 10w30 and 5w30 numbers...





Is that data off of Castrol's website? When I collected data not long agp when comparing 5W30 they didn't show HTHS or NOACK for Edge. Guess they updated that info.
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/27/18 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: Crashpuppy
Greetings all,

For my first post, I thought I'd let Castrol fans know that new PDS's dated this week are up on the Castrol US website, at least for GTX Magnatec 0W-20, 5W-20 and 5W-30. Aside from the news that all three now meet both D1G2 and the new SN Plus specs, the company has actually provided NOACK numbers:
0W-20 - 11.8
5W-20 - 9.7
5W-30 - 8.9 (not bad, even for GDI and T-GDI engines)

FWIW, I have been using GTX Magnatec in my port-injected '17 Elantra SE since I dumped the factory fill at 1,800 miles. Two runs of about 3,000 miles each (new car warranty requirements, you know), first on 5W-20 D1 and now on 5W-30 D1G2, with OEM filter. It has been very quiet and smooth on both, and overall gas mileage has been right in line with EPA estimates - no small accomplishment on our chronically clogged and torn up Pittsburgh area roads, which is basically all the car ever sees.

I'm really happy with it, and for the price for a 5 quart jug at Wally World, I think it's pretty hard to beat for a not-very-demanding, old-dirt driver who wants to use a modern full synthetic without having to tap the 401(k) to do it.


There once was a time here at BITOG and not that many years ago, when it was a sin to announce that GrpIII was a full-synthetic oil.


Thinks have progressed and semantics matter less than performance.
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/28/18 12:24 AM

I like what I'm seeing in this new version! I really want to try this..

The big question is.. What retailer is selling this version (5w30, SN Plus) of Magnatec? Anyone know? ???
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/28/18 12:36 AM

Got me a six pac Of 5w30 off of amazon it was delivered Monday.
Posted By: 53' Stude

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/28/18 01:09 AM

Originally Posted By: researcher
I like what I'm seeing in this new version! I really want to try this..

The big question is.. What retailer is selling this version (5w30, SN Plus) of Magnatec? Anyone know? ???


Wal Mart. I got a jug this morning. Then returned it as Wal Mart com has it for. $17.88. Beats $21.44 in store price. I ordered 3 jugs smile
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/28/18 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Got me a six pac Of 5w30 off of amazon it was delivered Monday.


Originally Posted By: car51

Wal Mart. I got a jug this morning. Then returned it as Wal Mart com has it for. $17.88. Beats $21.44 in store price. I ordered 3 jugs smile



Thanks for the info!! but to make 100% sure.. it *IS* the SN Plus version? I'll be over at walmart tomorrow I'll look.. smile
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/28/18 01:47 AM

Yes it is out I should have photographed the bottles
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/28/18 05:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Yes it is out I should have photographed the bottles


awesome! Makes my "hunt" a lot easier! I appreciate the info, thanks. thumbsup
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/29/18 11:34 AM

UPDATE: I did go to a couple local walmarts and they did not have the SN Plus version of 5w30 magnatec. Guess my area isn't that lucky to have it yet! frown

So I guess amazon might be my next step to get the SN Plus version?
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 05/31/18 06:14 PM

UPDATE: Could someone take a picture of the new labels for this "Recipe" of Magnatec? I just want to make sure I'm getting the same one as this product data sheet shows (in this thread).. thanks!
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/04/18 08:21 AM

To update my own post.. I went searching around local walmarts and auto parts stores this past weekend. None of the regular auto parts stores had the newer version of Magnatec, but I did find it at a walmart (finally)!

The new front label on the 5 quart and the 1 quart say "Superior GDI Turbo Formula" and on the back it refers to SN Plus, but it is NOT in the API circle, it's written below it.

Here's a picture I found of the 1 quart bottle for those looking for the new formula. Hope this helps for the people looking for it, like I was.

Posted By: LEADED

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/04/18 10:27 AM

One of the SPEC that impressed me the most is 5w 20 VI @ 134 must be one of the lowest . Maybe have something to do why we're seeing such great UOA with MAGNATEC .Using in 2 Ecoboost Ford that Spec 945 after a run of 8200 KM no oil loss or smell of fuel . Will keep using 5W 20 .
Posted By: Virtus_Probi

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/04/18 01:30 PM

Was also thinking about trying Magnatec 5W30, but it's not carried at the Walmarts near me anymore.
Ended up going with good ol M1 5W30 for the rebate.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/04/18 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: LEADED
One of the SPEC that impressed me the most is 5w 20 VI @ 134 must be one of the lowest . Maybe have something to do why we're seeing such great UOA with MAGNATEC. Using in 2 Ecoboost Ford that Spec 945 after a run of 8200 KM no oil loss or smell of fuel . Will keep using 5W 20.


From this article: http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm

Sounds like a higher VI is better than a lower VI.

What is Viscosity Index (VI)?

It is the rate of change of viscosity between two temperatures. The lower the VI, the more the drop in viscosity
as the oil warms up. The higher the VI value, the less the drop in viscosity as the oil warms up.
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/04/18 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LEADED
One of the SPEC that impressed me the most is 5w 20 VI @ 134 must be one of the lowest . Maybe have something to do why we're seeing such great UOA with MAGNATEC. Using in 2 Ecoboost Ford that Spec 945 after a run of 8200 KM no oil loss or smell of fuel . Will keep using 5W 20.


From this article: http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm

Sounds like a higher VI is better than a lower VI.

What is Viscosity Index (VI)?

It is the rate of change of viscosity between two temperatures. The lower the VI, the more the drop in viscosity
as the oil warms up. The higher the VI value, the less the drop in viscosity as the oil warms up.


Your assumption is incorrect in a formulated lube that depends on improvers tomdeveelop VI
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 12:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LEADED
One of the SPEC that impressed me the most is 5w 20 VI @ 134 must be one of the lowest . Maybe have something to do why we're seeing such great UOA with MAGNATEC. Using in 2 Ecoboost Ford that Spec 945 after a run of 8200 KM no oil loss or smell of fuel . Will keep using 5W 20.

From this article: http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm

Sounds like a higher VI is better than a lower VI.
What is Viscosity Index (VI)?

It is the rate of change of viscosity between two temperatures. The lower the VI, the more the drop in viscosity
as the oil warms up. The higher the VI value, the less the drop in viscosity as the oil warms up.

Your assumption is incorrect in a formulated lube that depends on improvers tomdeveelop VI


It's not my assumption ... it's explained the same way in many places explaining the Viscosity Index. A lower VI value means the oil thins out more with the same temperature change than an oil with a higher VI.

You have a source that says it doesn't mean what that article says? The VI is a measure of how much the viscosity changes with temperature ... regardless of the formulation.
Posted By: Bryanccfshr

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 01:44 AM

I am not going to argue the semantics of the definition, I have other intrest tonight.I will argue that a Higher viscosity index does not make an oil superior.
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I am not going to argue the semantics of the definition, I have other intrest tonight.I will argue that a Higher viscosity index does not make an oil superior.


+1
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 03:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I am not going to argue the semantics of the definition, I have other intrest tonight.I will argue that a Higher viscosity index does not make an oil superior.


Don't know if a high VI is better or not, but based on the definition I'd think less viscosity change (a higher VI number) between say 40C and 100C would be more ideal.
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 04:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Was also thinking about trying Magnatec 5W30, but it's not carried at the Walmarts near me anymore.
Ended up going with good ol M1 5W30 for the rebate.


Not in the league of Edge IMO … 2013 Pentastar … roughest looking oil (thick goo, and coal black 5w20 with just 3k) I have seen in decades of at work or DIY OCI … nothing like that for the first 45k on either M1 or PP … have another Magnatec fill in it now, (already purchased) and looks normal at 2k … have 2 jugs 5w20 QSUD on deck …
No more MT …two OCI runs of that should help clean it out …
Then M1, PP, QSUD, PG etc …
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 04:38 AM

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I am not going to argue the semantics of the definition, I have other intrest tonight.I will argue that a Higher viscosity index does not make an oil superior.


Don't know if a high VI is better or not, but based on the definition I'd think less viscosity change (a higher VI number) between say 40C and 100C would be more ideal.


zeeOsix - I do agree with you, seems lately we have people spouting off information and insulting others on this forum as if THEY are *THE PROFESSOR OF OIL*. Typical internet. Where "everybody is an expert". Funny that when challenged they dismissed your questions. No need to even acknowledge that type of behavior!

Fact is.. the VI or Viscosity Index began in 1929 to study the stability of the oil. Highly refined oils and even synthetics receive a higher score on the index. It is usually an indication of the quality of the base stock.

In my own UOA's I've seen lower VI numbers result in shearing that happened quicker than an oil with a higher VI. Yes there are other factors at play but I can make a blanket conclusion that you'd want something with a higher VI than 134.

When I saw that the 5w20 version of magnatec had that I laughed and said "no thank you". Mobil had been pulling this same cheap approach no matter who defends it as normal, it's cheap and its the bean counters at work. You sure don't see full synthetic makers trying to lower the bar like this.

So yes you are correct in believing a lower VI is not something you'd want to have. I usually draw the line around 150 for a VI.

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Was also thinking about trying Magnatec 5W30, but it's not carried at the Walmarts near me anymore.
Ended up going with good ol M1 5W30 for the rebate.


Not in the league of Edge IMO … 2013 Pentastar … roughest looking oil (thick goo, and coal black 5w20 with just 3k) I have seen in decades of at work or DIY OCI … nothing like that for the first 45k on either M1 or PP … have another Magnatec fill in it now, (already purchased) and looks normal at 2k … have 2 jugs 5w20 QSUD on deck …
No more MT …two OCI runs of that should help clean it out …
Then M1, PP, QSUD, PG etc …


So this was the older version of magnatec not this new recipe/formula it sounds like. Interesting you had goo when all of the people I know in person have never had that issue, ever. Do you have a UOA to accompany this story of goo?
Posted By: 4WD

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 04:47 AM

Originally Posted By: researcher
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I am not going to argue the semantics of the definition, I have other intrest tonight.I will argue that a Higher viscosity index does not make an oil superior.


Don't know if a high VI is better or not, but based on the definition I'd think less viscosity change (a higher VI number) between say 40C and 100C would be more ideal.


zeeOsix - I do agree with you, seems lately we have people spouting off information and insulting others on this forum as if THEY are *THE PROFESSOR OF OIL*. Typical internet. Where "everybody is an expert". Funny that when challenged they dismissed your questions. No need to even acknowledge that type of behavior!

Fact is.. the VI or Viscosity Index began in 1929 to study the stability of the oil. Highly refined oils and even synthetics receive a higher score on the index. It is usually an indication of the quality of the base stock.

In my own UOA's I've seen lower VI numbers result in shearing that happened quicker than an oil with a higher VI. Yes there are other factors at play but I can make a blanket conclusion that you'd want something with a higher VI than 134.

When I saw that the 5w20 version of magnatec had that I laughed and said "no thank you". Mobil had been pulling this same cheap approach no matter who defends it as normal, it's cheap and its the bean counters at work. You sure don't see full synthetic makers trying to lower the bar like this.

So yes you are correct in believing a lower VI is not something you'd want to have. I usually draw the line around 150 for a VI.

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Was also thinking about trying Magnatec 5W30, but it's not carried at the Walmarts near me anymore.
Ended up going with good ol M1 5W30 for the rebate.


Not in the league of Edge IMO … 2013 Pentastar … roughest looking oil (thick goo, and coal black 5w20 with just 3k) I have seen in decades of at work or DIY OCI … nothing like that for the first 45k on either M1 or PP … have another Magnatec fill in it now, (already purchased) and looks normal at 2k … have 2 jugs 5w20 QSUD on deck …
No more MT …two OCI runs of that should help clean it out …
Then M1, PP, QSUD, PG etc …


So this was the older version of magnatec not this new recipe/formula it sounds like. Interesting you had goo when all of the people I know in person have never had that issue, ever. Do you have a UOA to accompany this story of goo?


Older version …? Bought and used in 2017-2018 … even more interesting to me, I bought that car …
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 05:26 AM

Originally Posted By: researcher
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Don't know if a high VI is better or not, but based on the definition I'd think less viscosity change (a higher VI number) between say 40C and 100C would be more ideal.


zeeOsix - I do agree with you, seems lately we have people spouting off information and insulting others on this forum as if THEY are *THE PROFESSOR OF OIL*. Typical internet. Where "everybody is an expert". Funny that when challenged they dismissed your questions. No need to even acknowledge that type of behavior!

Fact is.. the VI or Viscosity Index began in 1929 to study the stability of the oil. Highly refined oils and even synthetics receive a higher score on the index. It is usually an indication of the quality of the base stock.

In my own UOA's I've seen lower VI numbers result in shearing that happened quicker than an oil with a higher VI. Yes there are other factors at play but I can make a blanket conclusion that you'd want something with a higher VI than 134.

When I saw that the 5w20 version of magnatec had that I laughed and said "no thank you". Mobil had been pulling this same cheap approach no matter who defends it as normal, it's cheap and its the bean counters at work. You sure don't see full synthetic makers trying to lower the bar like this.

So yes you are correct in believing a lower VI is not something you'd want to have. I usually draw the line around 150 for a VI.


Thanks for added the info on VI.
Posted By: weasley

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 08:30 AM

A higher VI doesn't necessarily make an oil better, but a higher VI is preferable if all other factors are equivalent. You need the oil to be a given viscosity at its working temperature. A higher VI oil will be thinner when cold than a lower VI one, so during that period of time spent in the sub-optimal warm-up phase when the oil is thinning down, the higher VI oil will start from a lower viscosity and hence be closer to optimum to start with.

How this higher VI is achieved can impact the oil's performance though. If it is with lots of VM then there are issues around shear stability, piston deposits and so forth. If it is done with high VI base stock you have a more 'robust' VI, but more expensive.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 08:59 AM

Originally Posted By: researcher
zeeOsix - I do agree with you, seems lately we have people spouting off information and insulting others on this forum as if THEY are *THE PROFESSOR OF OIL*. Typical internet. Where "everybody is an expert". Funny that when challenged they dismissed your questions. No need to even acknowledge that type of behavior!

Fact is.. the VI or Viscosity Index began in 1929 to study the stability of the oil. Highly refined oils and even synthetics receive a higher score on the index. It is usually an indication of the quality of the base stock.

In my own UOA's I've seen lower VI numbers result in shearing that happened quicker than an oil with a higher VI. Yes there are other factors at play but I can make a blanket conclusion that you'd want something with a higher VI than 134.

When I saw that the 5w20 version of magnatec had that I laughed and said "no thank you". Mobil had been pulling this same cheap approach no matter who defends it as normal, it's cheap and its the bean counters at work. You sure don't see full synthetic makers trying to lower the bar like this.

So yes you are correct in believing a lower VI is not something you'd want to have. I usually draw the line around 150 for a VI.


VI was developed to sort base-stocks...basestocks that had a lower change in viscosity with temperature were considered (quite accurately) to be superior. The arbitrary 0 and 100 ratings were based on the best and worst "natural" oils that could be dug up.

Note, it was just the difference in the change in viscosity, not necessarily indicative of other "qualitiies".

As refining, synthesising technology, GTL, novel basestocks evolved, numbers over 100 came to be common(ish)ly available..and again were desirable.

When Viscosity Modifiers came into existance, these chemicals that thicken thinner basestocks, and modify their viscosity change with temperature came into use...they worked on paper, and they worked at the shear rates that were used for the Kinematic Viscosity type tests.

As Weasley said, they started also to demonstrate other undesirable traits
* deposits
* not providing the protection that their Kinematic viscosities (and W grades) would indicate on paper
* extreme cases, turning to a block of rubber in the sump.

Those were the reasons for the absolutely deserved poor rap that the 10W40 grade received in the 60s and 70s...I read the SAE papers while at Uni (on microfiche).

The middle issue, not providing the protection that the KV100 and thus grade would otherwise indicate received a lot of scrutiny and testing, and it was found that there was a shear rate at which the polymers (sort of) flattened out, and the apparent viscosity in high shear regimes dropped, often markedly.

That's the "High Temperature High Shear Viscosity", which is the actual indicator of bearing oil film thickness and protection...for this reason, it was added to SAEJ300 with a minimum spec. Until relatively recently, xW-40s (x being 0W, 5W, and 10W) had a minimum spec of 2.9, exactly the same as an xW-30...

That's potentially how poor chasing Viscosity Index in a multigrade were with the products at the time. No more protection than a 30, but all of the downsides of loading the oils up with polymers.

High Viscosity Index is a good thing...provided, as a previous poster stated that it doesn't introduce too many compromises.

Re an arbitrary lower VI cut-off...look at this oil
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g27.pdf
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=413394&docFormat=PDF

Virtually all basestock, and no polymers...they are technically virtually unshearable, and carry none of the penalties of polymer additives...but they don't meet your bar of 150, in spite of the above.
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 09:33 AM

Thank you Weasley for that very informative answer.

Great to have someone on here with your tremendous knowledge base and experience.
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 09:34 AM

And thank Shannow for that informative and great answer as well. It is always good to see you on here. I learn a lot from your charts by the way smile
Posted By: LEADED

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 11:47 AM

I always choose a PCMO with lowest VI in narrow grades in modern formulated lubes ,hence I aim of having less VII , less burnoff Quality Baseoil is what lubricte not a load of VII that burn up faster ,not all . Lot of formulators go that route including CASTROL,Magnatec proof that point . Next UOA will be @ 9000 KM will increase till I find sweet spot & out of Ford Warranty . Magnatec has delivered for me
Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Thanks for added the info on VI.


you're welcome

Originally Posted By: weasley
A higher VI doesn't necessarily make an oil better, but a higher VI is preferable if all other factors are equivalent. You need the oil to be a given viscosity at its working temperature. A higher VI oil will be thinner when cold than a lower VI one, so during that period of time spent in the sub-optimal warm-up phase when the oil is thinning down, the higher VI oil will start from a lower viscosity and hence be closer to optimum to start with.

How this higher VI is achieved can impact the oil's performance though. If it is with lots of VM then there are issues around shear stability, piston deposits and so forth. If it is done with high VI base stock you have a more 'robust' VI, but more expensive.




Thank you weasley and Shannow! thumbsup I knew the basics about VI but both of your comments definitely knocked it out of the park!

Originally Posted By: Shannow


VI was developed to sort base-stocks...basestocks that had a lower change in viscosity with temperature were considered (quite accurately) to be superior. The arbitrary 0 and 100 ratings were based on the best and worst "natural" oils that could be dug up.

Note, it was just the difference in the change in viscosity, not necessarily indicative of other "qualitiies".

As refining, synthesising technology, GTL, novel basestocks evolved, numbers over 100 came to be common(ish)ly available..and again were desirable.

When Viscosity Modifiers came into existance, these chemicals that thicken thinner basestocks, and modify their viscosity change with temperature came into use...they worked on paper, and they worked at the shear rates that were used for the Kinematic Viscosity type tests.

As Weasley said, they started also to demonstrate other undesirable traits
* deposits
* not providing the protection that their Kinematic viscosities (and W grades) would indicate on paper
* extreme cases, turning to a block of rubber in the sump.

Those were the reasons for the absolutely deserved poor rap that the 10W40 grade received in the 60s and 70s...I read the SAE papers while at Uni (on microfiche).

The middle issue, not providing the protection that the KV100 and thus grade would otherwise indicate received a lot of scrutiny and testing, and it was found that there was a shear rate at which the polymers (sort of) flattened out, and the apparent viscosity in high shear regimes dropped, often markedly.

That's the "High Temperature High Shear Viscosity", which is the actual indicator of bearing oil film thickness and protection...for this reason, it was added to SAEJ300 with a minimum spec. Until relatively recently, xW-40s (x being 0W, 5W, and 10W) had a minimum spec of 2.9, exactly the same as an xW-30...

That's potentially how poor chasing Viscosity Index in a multigrade were with the products at the time. No more protection than a 30, but all of the downsides of loading the oils up with polymers.

High Viscosity Index is a good thing...provided, as a previous poster stated that it doesn't introduce too many compromises.

Re an arbitrary lower VI cut-off...look at this oil
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g27.pdf
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=413394&docFormat=PDF

Virtually all basestock, and no polymers...they are technically virtually unshearable, and carry none of the penalties of polymer additives...but they don't meet your bar of 150, in spite of the above.


And Shannow.. I only used 150 as a base for my own consideration, as you pointed out there's MUCH more to it.. My experience was only in regards to what I saw with the quality of the oil, shearing over time. But thanks for completing the rest of the "equation". I do appreciate it.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/05/18 11:54 PM

Sweet, no problems at all.

My target is typically the lowest "grade" spread (15W gets you going anywhere in Australia), and anything over 170VI I avoid. Like the "Harman Index" (Ratio of HTHS to the (calculated, it's not exact) "Newtonian" viscosity at 150C) to be in the 90s.

An ACEA A3/B4, or C3 10W30 full synth would be my go to, but those beasts don't live here, so 5W30 A3/B4, or C3 synthetic are what I typically buy...
Posted By: SR5

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 12:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Sweet, no problems at all.

My target is typically the lowest "grade" spread (15W gets you going anywhere in Australia), and anything over 170VI I avoid. Like the "Harman Index" (Ratio of HTHS to the (calculated, it's not exact) "Newtonian" viscosity at 150C) to be in the 90s.

An ACEA A3/B4, or C3 10W30 full synth would be my go to, but those beasts don't live here, so 5W30 A3/B4, or C3 synthetic are what I typically buy...


How about an A5/B5 10W30 ?

Any good to you ?

You can get that here as Castrol Edge, in fact I'm a bit torn between Edge 5W30 A3/B4 and Edge 10W30 A5/B5.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 12:36 AM

Nah, I want 3.5+ HTHS

Could mix it with 25W-50 smile
Posted By: John_Dude

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 12:52 AM

I've ran magnatec 5w30 full and partial synthetics out to 8-9.5k miles without any "goop". The engine consumes about 1 quart of oil over that time period. Whoever had goop must have had a separate issue, like blowby turned the oil black and a head gasket crack created the goop.

The magnatec 5w30 fill in my zx2 is at 3k miles and 6 months right now and it looks nearly as clear as new. My Cobalt turns oil dark much much faster than my zx2, and that's the rig I ran magnatec to 8-9.5k miles. My zx2 gets an oil change once every 6 months due to severe duty, mostly trips of 1-2 miles.

Posted By: researcher

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Sweet, no problems at all.

My target is typically the lowest "grade" spread (15W gets you going anywhere in Australia), and anything over 170VI I avoid. Like the "Harman Index" (Ratio of HTHS to the (calculated, it's not exact) "Newtonian" viscosity at 150C) to be in the 90s.

An ACEA A3/B4, or C3 10W30 full synth would be my go to, but those beasts don't live here, so 5W30 A3/B4, or C3 synthetic are what I typically buy...


Interesting info.. I did plug in all the data using the "Harman Index" which uses the Widman Operational Viscosity calculator, etc.. Results are a 0.95 or 95 for the Magnatec 5w20(new formula sn plus). I see your point about VI and modifiers. Since the VI of the 5w20 Magnatec is a 134!

I plugged in the data for the 5w30 Magnatec and got 0.932. And that has a VI of 170!

So if I am to interpret these results correctly, looks like the 5w30 magnatec doesn't contain that many VI modifiers, and the base stock is just that much refined. Let me know Shannow if my interpretation is correct.

I'm re-learning what I had previously believed.. Cool! cheers

EDIT: a score of 1 would mean there are no VI modifiers in that oil. Closer you get to 1, the less modification.
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 01:58 AM

The Harmon Index is an approximation built on assumptions. I’m not a mathematician, but there needs to be “error bars” associated with any calculation. Probably something like +- 2. We don’t have enough information to conclude if Magnatec 5W-20 is higher than 5W-30. It could very well be lower.
Posted By: Shannow

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 02:03 AM

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The Harmon Index is an approximation built on assumptions. I’m not a mathematician, but there needs to be “error bars” associated with any calculation. Probably something like +- 2. We don’t have enough information to conclude if Magnatec 5W-20 is higher than 5W-30. It could very well be lower.


First point yes...

second point no...you have to use your head as well to see if the results are rational.

136 VI you can get almost solely with basestocks...170 you simply can't.

Edge 25W-50 comes out as 1
Nulon 25W60 comes out as 1
TGMO comes out in the 0.8s

They all tell you something without error bars.
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 02:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The Harmon Index is an approximation built on assumptions. I’m not a mathematician, but there needs to be “error bars” associated with any calculation. Probably something like +- 2. We don’t have enough information to conclude if Magnatec 5W-20 is higher than 5W-30. It could very well be lower.


First point yes...

second point no...you have to use your head as well to see if the results are rational.

136 VI you can get almost solely with basestocks...170 you simply can't.

Edge 25W-50 comes out as 1
Nulon 25W60 comes out as 1
TGMO comes out in the 0.8s

They all tell you something without error bars.


In this case I completely agree with you. I guess my comment was more to warn that it has limits, especially within grades.
Posted By: LEADED

Re: Castrol Magnatec (US) - updated PDS out this week - 06/06/18 11:32 AM

Mr Shannow et all , it was posted before that with group 3 base oil it feasable to formulate a 5W -20 grade with little help from VII up to 140 VI, is this what we're seeing from MAGNATEC ? .Thank you
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