I'm still reading post on other forums about Pennzoil sludging/gumming up engines due to parrafin?
What started Pennzoil dino sludge rumors?
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Rumors maybe but, I have seen and own a car that had a steady diet of Pennzoil. The car is a 1976 Buick Lesabre with a 350 4 barrel in it. It was owned by my in laws since brand new. It was maintained very well with all oil changes done every 3,000 miles.
I can state for a fact that when I was given the car, I went and pulled the valve covers and found sludge. Not a massive amount but, I did find it. Along with the sludge I also found a burned ash type material under the valve covers. Yes, the PCV valve along with everything else had been replaced at regular intervals.
In the past I have also seen other vehicles of same and other makes with the so called sludge. I will be removing the oil pan in the future to replace the pan gasket. I'm betting the oil pan is coated with the same stuff.
I don't hate Pennzoil but, have seen the results of it's use. I'd bet it is a far better product nowadays.
I can state for a fact that when I was given the car, I went and pulled the valve covers and found sludge. Not a massive amount but, I did find it. Along with the sludge I also found a burned ash type material under the valve covers. Yes, the PCV valve along with everything else had been replaced at regular intervals.
In the past I have also seen other vehicles of same and other makes with the so called sludge. I will be removing the oil pan in the future to replace the pan gasket. I'm betting the oil pan is coated with the same stuff.
I don't hate Pennzoil but, have seen the results of it's use. I'd bet it is a far better product nowadays.
The people on the other forums don't know what they are talking about.
The rumors are from way back in the day. Without parrafin we wouldnt have motor oil sooo... guess that rules that out. I believe it was in the 70's era when it became a big thing. In todays market Pennzoil has shown that its a top notch product and many people on here will agree.
Despite how much we like to talk about our favorite oils, I think for most engines, ANY oil that meets the min spec will work just fine.
From what I see, all oils(meeting API specs) have pretty high standards of performance. I just can't see someone getting towed into a shop with a dead Civic and being confronted, "you used Castrol in this didn't you?!? I TOLD you....Havoline ONLY!!!".
Some oils may have a lead on others in certain aspects but I think most oils within each grade are just about equal when it comes to basic levels of performance.
From what I see, all oils(meeting API specs) have pretty high standards of performance. I just can't see someone getting towed into a shop with a dead Civic and being confronted, "you used Castrol in this didn't you?!? I TOLD you....Havoline ONLY!!!".
Some oils may have a lead on others in certain aspects but I think most oils within each grade are just about equal when it comes to basic levels of performance.
If one is talking about motor oils produced and marketed today, then probably singling out one particular brand of oil as a sludge maker is only a rumor. No doubt an old rumor, based on known cases where certain oil brands were known to sludge an engine. Since I was a maturing adult in the mid-60's and into 70's I know that some brands did produce sludge because I've had it happen to me. It was pretty well known that motor oils produced from some Pennsylvania crude oils were sludge makers. Gulf, Texaco, Esso (now Exxon-Mobil) and a few others, reportedly not refined from Pennsylvania crude oils, did not have such reputations.
Since we are talking about the past and since few companies today refine and market oil exclusively from Pennsylvania crude, the "sludge rumor" is probably unfair, but there is a lingering rumor hangover from that earlier era. I still have such a "hangover" about Quaker State that it would be just about the last motor oil that I would buy. Even though we all know that QS has new owners and different oil production processes.
Since we are talking about the past and since few companies today refine and market oil exclusively from Pennsylvania crude, the "sludge rumor" is probably unfair, but there is a lingering rumor hangover from that earlier era. I still have such a "hangover" about Quaker State that it would be just about the last motor oil that I would buy. Even though we all know that QS has new owners and different oil production processes.
I never knew why Pennzoil of old did what it did, but I did see a lot of sludged up Pennzoil engines in the 70s and 80s. Since Pennz was so popular, you obviously were going to have more cars running it, and more problems reported with that oil due to the sample size.
I look back on it as funny now, but at the shops I worked in the techs avoided Pennzoil like the plague. The running joke in one shop among the heavy line guys when they opened up a sludged engine, "Hey, I found those Pennstar molecules".
I look back on it as funny now, but at the shops I worked in the techs avoided Pennzoil like the plague. The running joke in one shop among the heavy line guys when they opened up a sludged engine, "Hey, I found those Pennstar molecules".
Not sure about where the rumors started, but I'm sure Johnny will be checking in soon to clear the air.
I ran Pennzoil dino exclusively in the 80's, 90's, and up until last year, when I switched to TropArtic and now Motorcraft and PP. (Because I wanted to try a syn blend and then full syn on the Honda.) I can tell you that without hesitation that it was exceptional. I never had the first sludge problem, and the engines ran as good the day I got rid of the cars as they did the day I got them, and I almost always kept vehicles well past 100K miles. Anecdotal, I know. But you won't convince me that PZ isn't as good as any dino on the market.
I ran Pennzoil dino exclusively in the 80's, 90's, and up until last year, when I switched to TropArtic and now Motorcraft and PP. (Because I wanted to try a syn blend and then full syn on the Honda.) I can tell you that without hesitation that it was exceptional. I never had the first sludge problem, and the engines ran as good the day I got rid of the cars as they did the day I got them, and I almost always kept vehicles well past 100K miles. Anecdotal, I know. But you won't convince me that PZ isn't as good as any dino on the market.
I agree with punisher. I also wrenched for a living in the '70s and '80s. I worked for a Ford dealer then and saw lots of sludged up Ford engines using Pennzoil. I'm ashamed to admit I was also into the anti Pennz camp. Quaker State too. We called it Pennz "Pe-is oil." QS was "Quacker Pate." Are the clicks I just heard the igniters on flamethrowers? Based on what I have learned since, I think it was a combo of the engine technology of the day, the first forays into extended drain intervals and the lower state of oil technology then. It wasn't exclusive to Pennzoil, but Pennzoil always took the rap.
10W-40.... Pennzoil and Quaker State were the most popular brands.
The VII of the time was just not up to handling that kind of spread using the the low quality GI Basestocks of the period.
Someone (G-Man?) posted a link for an oil ad from the early 20th Century claiming lubricant made from Texas Oil was less sludge prone.
My favorite are people who claim Pennzoil is parrafin based like other oils are not...
The VII of the time was just not up to handling that kind of spread using the the low quality GI Basestocks of the period.
Someone (G-Man?) posted a link for an oil ad from the early 20th Century claiming lubricant made from Texas Oil was less sludge prone.
My favorite are people who claim Pennzoil is parrafin based like other oils are not...
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Not sure about where the rumors started, but I'm sure Johnny will be checking in soon to clear the air.
Nothing to clear as for as I'm concerned. My Dad used Pennzoil in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's. I never heard him say anything about sludge and I never saw any sludge after I was old enough to know what oil was. He worked for Mobil for 40 years and he used Pennzoil.
I went to work for Pennzoil in 1985 and I have heard every horror story you can come up with. Was it the oil, don't know, I didn't have anything to do with in before 1985, but I doubt that was the total blame. As has been mentioned, lot of factors cause sludge, the least of them is the oil. Oil was not designed to cause sludge. And the pariffin story is so old I just want to
I chalk it up to several things, one being poor maintance by vehicle owners, whether they want to admit it or not, and the fact that more Pennzoil is used than any other brand. Kind of like Chevrolet. Go to any repair shop and you will always see more Chevrolets in there than any other brand. Not because their bad, just because there are so many of them.
Let me give you an example. Pennzoil has been the number one selling motor oil in North America since 1983. Quaker State has been number two and Valvoline has been number three. To give you some kind of idea of volumes, there is more Pennzoil sold than Quaker State and Valvoline put together. So, somewhere down the line someone is going to have a problem. That's just the way it is.
Pennzoil was a leader in technology for many years. It was the first PCMO that was turbo approved in all viscosities. Pennzoil was using Group II basestocks in EVERY product they made 6-years before anyone else. It was Chevron that came up with the process to make Group II basestocks, but at the time they were only using it in the Delo 15W40 that they sold on the west coast. As others have said, since GF-4 and API SM most all oils are now made with Group II or better basestocks, so the playing field has been leveled.
It was Pennzoil that worked with Ford Motor Company to formulate 5W20. I was there when they tested it in Dearborn. Due to contracts between Ford and Conoco and contracts and partnerships between Conoco and Pennzoil, Conoco made the final product for Ford.
While I was there several large engine mfg wanted Pennzoil to make their oil. The three that come to mind were CAT, MACK, and Cummins. Pennzoil was ready to do that but they had one stipulation, somewhere on the containers in small print it had to say it was made by Pennzoil. The mfg would not go for that and the rest is history. If Pennzoil was going to make a product they were going to put their name on it. Times have changed since then and who know what the new owners are doing.
I use to really get ticked at all the dumb rumors and let it get to me. Not anymore. I'm RETIRED and I DO NOT CARE.
My family has used Pennzoil for over 76 years and it has never let us down. When I'm dead and gone, I could care less what my kids use in their cars. But as long as I'm here, they will use PENNZOIL.
In the very early days of refining technology, when motor oil had no additives, ALL oil caused sludge. It was an accepted fact and there were various ways of dealing with it (like flushing the crankcase out with kerosene at every oil change). Before oil was discovered in Texas and other parts of the US, the oil fields in PA, NY, OH, and WV were the sole producers. The oil from these fields was paraffin rich, and it was known from the late 19th century that this oil exhibited superior lubricating properties for machinery. Just about the time the car and motorcycle craze hit its stride in the US, oil was discovered in Texas. But it was immediately apparent this stuff was vastly different from the "Pennsylvania Grade" crude Standard and what few independents there were had been refining and selling. The Texas crude was highly naphthenic, which means its inherent solvency was better than the paraffin rich Penn Grade crude. So...
(Those of you who have a basic understanding of how motor oil works at the molecular level should already see where this story is going.)
Once motor oil started being refined from this naphthenic crude mechanics began to notice that the sludge level was generally less and the sludge was somewhat easier to flush out. This was due to the inherent higher solvency of the naphthenic crude because the oil had more polar and aromatic content than oil refined from Penn Grade crude. By now the Standard Oil Trust had been broken up and the oil companies that refined nothing but Texas crude began to advertise their motor oil as less sludge prone than oil made from Penn Grade. (See my previous post with the old Gulf ad.) The prime candidates for targeting such ads were the larger oil companies that made a point of advertising that their oils were made with only Penn Grade crude: Pennzoil, Quaker State, Penzbest (Kendall), and Valvoline.
So, as with most myths there is a kernel of truth in the "Pennzoil causes sludge" myth. The kernel is the fact that when refining was rudimentary and no additives were used in the finished product, ALL oil caused sludge. Once the more solvent crude from Texas began to be used by some companies to make motor oil, the sludge produced was LESS than that normally seen in engines using oil made from Pennsylvania Grade Crude. Marketing took over and this fact was used as a selling point. By the time motor oils were more or less equal in their performance capabilities (40s-50s) the marketing slogans and anecdotal stories passed between mechanics over the past quarter century were so ingrained that the oils made from Penn Grade crude continued to get a bad reputation. And as we continually see here on BITOG, the myth is still alive and well almost 100 years from its inception.
Class dismissed.
(Those of you who have a basic understanding of how motor oil works at the molecular level should already see where this story is going.)
Once motor oil started being refined from this naphthenic crude mechanics began to notice that the sludge level was generally less and the sludge was somewhat easier to flush out. This was due to the inherent higher solvency of the naphthenic crude because the oil had more polar and aromatic content than oil refined from Penn Grade crude. By now the Standard Oil Trust had been broken up and the oil companies that refined nothing but Texas crude began to advertise their motor oil as less sludge prone than oil made from Penn Grade. (See my previous post with the old Gulf ad.) The prime candidates for targeting such ads were the larger oil companies that made a point of advertising that their oils were made with only Penn Grade crude: Pennzoil, Quaker State, Penzbest (Kendall), and Valvoline.
So, as with most myths there is a kernel of truth in the "Pennzoil causes sludge" myth. The kernel is the fact that when refining was rudimentary and no additives were used in the finished product, ALL oil caused sludge. Once the more solvent crude from Texas began to be used by some companies to make motor oil, the sludge produced was LESS than that normally seen in engines using oil made from Pennsylvania Grade Crude. Marketing took over and this fact was used as a selling point. By the time motor oils were more or less equal in their performance capabilities (40s-50s) the marketing slogans and anecdotal stories passed between mechanics over the past quarter century were so ingrained that the oils made from Penn Grade crude continued to get a bad reputation. And as we continually see here on BITOG, the myth is still alive and well almost 100 years from its inception.
Class dismissed.
Wasn't Pennzoil one of the most commonly used oils in an era dominated by high horsepower/high heat engines?
Seemed like many, if not all, of the 10w40s designed to address those engines were not the quality we take for granted today.
Pennzoil took the heat - pardon the pun- for many issues that they might not have deserved. The snowball grows as it moves downhill and the Pennzoil myth with it.
How do the sludge people explain all those Pennzoil cars and trucks with 2, 3, and 400,000 miles on them?
Seemed like many, if not all, of the 10w40s designed to address those engines were not the quality we take for granted today.
Pennzoil took the heat - pardon the pun- for many issues that they might not have deserved. The snowball grows as it moves downhill and the Pennzoil myth with it.
How do the sludge people explain all those Pennzoil cars and trucks with 2, 3, and 400,000 miles on them?
I've heard the exact same thing with QS years ago. While watching spike tv on Trucks. Tracey pulled apart this old engine. It showed sludge everywhere. He claimed that back in "the day," the oil manufacturers used a lot more parrafin than they do now and if you didn't change your oil religiously then, your expected to see this type of sludge with older engines. Goes inline with what some of the members are saying on here.
Not really. All motor oil has some paraffin content, the more the better. The whole "paraffin=bad" mentality goes right back to the early 20th century marketing which equated the paraffin rich Penn Grade oils with sludge. It has no basis in fact. If it did, modern Group II and Group III oils would be monster sludge makers. The whole point in hydrocracking crude is to destroy as much of the aromatic content as possible and convert the remainder to nothing but paraffinic content. PAO is 100% paraffinic with absolutely no polar/aromatic content at all. Why don't PAO based oils have a bad reputation for causing sludge?
"...By the time motor oils were more or less equal in their performance capabilities (40s-50s) the marketing slogans and anecdotal stories passed between mechanics over the past quarter century were so ingrained that the oils made from Penn Grade crude continued to get a bad reputation. And as we continually see here on BITOG, the myth is still alive and well almost 100 years from its inception...."
LOL! It just shows that many mechs around still stuck with 100 year old housewife's tales ...makes you wonder if they still stuck with old mech's tricks when dealing with modern EFI cars though....
*grin*
Q.
LOL! It just shows that many mechs around still stuck with 100 year old housewife's tales ...makes you wonder if they still stuck with old mech's tricks when dealing with modern EFI cars though....
*grin*
Q.
I had a '86 Chevt Nova ( Corolla ) hatchback w/ the 1.6 ltr. that we purchased used at 100,000 miles and ran mostly PENNZOIL . Traveling over 100 miles per day , 365 days of the year , mostly for paper delivery and the the car finally died a 274,000 miles . Would use VALVOLINE on occasion , but probably 95 % of use was PENNZOIL ( could use flashlight to look into valve cover thru the oil fill and the camshaft , etc. was clean as coould be ). Also used SLICK 50 at 25,000 mile intervals w/o a hitch . There's another rumour to debate . So, talk about double trouble , PENNZOIL and SLICK 50 used at the same time , surely killed that engine a 274,000 miles , well before it's time .
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talk about double trouble , PENNZOIL and SLICK 50 used at the same time , surely killed that engine a 274,000 miles , well before it's time .
Didn't mean to stir the pot.
I really did read the Pennzoil sludge opinons on another forum very recently.
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