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Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? #857855
03/15/07 05:39 AM
03/15/07 05:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
Griz95 Offline OP
Griz95  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
This is my first post on this forum so bare with me I am using a Baldwin B-164 by-pass filter. My goal is to extend my drain intervals which in my mind means to filter out all the harmful crud and drain all the oil once a year. I am averaging 10K miles per year and approximately 3K of that is towing a 6K trailer. I have been replacing the B-164 every 3K miles and the Donaldson full flow every 6K miles. I am interested in your comments.

Thanks,


02 F250, 4X4, 4R100, 7.3L Diesel, 3.73, Edge CTS Digital Gage, Tymar 4" exhaust & HPX. IH Bellowed Up-Pipes.
Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: Griz95] #857856
03/15/07 07:33 AM
03/15/07 07:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,756
RI
unDummy Offline
unDummy  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,756
RI
What engine? year make model? what size orifice on the B164?

Many vehicles go 10k now on normal oil. Adding a B164 should only help. I see no reason why the B164, the full flow, and the oil, shouldn't last the entire year.
You probably won't even need to change the filters at all during the year(vehicle specifics dependent).

A 6 month UOA, with TBN, will give you a good look at your oil and whether you can go the full year safely or pick a different interval.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: unDummy] #857857
03/15/07 08:42 AM
03/15/07 08:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 302
Idaho
md_lucky_13 Offline
md_lucky_13  Offline
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 302
Idaho
Sit down, grab a beer, and get ready to do some reading!

This is a B50.. Same thing as the B164, just smaller in size.

Read everything with an open mind, beleive what you want in the end.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...e=0&fpart=1

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...7272#Post842057

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: md_lucky_13] #857858
03/15/07 05:58 PM
03/15/07 05:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 39,806
Pottstown, PA
Gary Allan Offline
Gary Allan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 39,806
Pottstown, PA


I'll preface everything with recommending UOA.

I think that you could lighten up a great deal on the filter changes. Assuming that you're in tune and there are no insidious mechanical issues, you should be good for the entire 10k without filter changes. I don't know how the oil works with your service, but, with all the aforementioned qualifications, your filtration should be up to the task with capacity to spare.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: unDummy] #857859
03/15/07 08:55 PM
03/15/07 08:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
Griz95 Offline OP
Griz95  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
Quote:

What engine? year make model? what size orifice on the B164?



This is for a 1995 Ford F250 4x4. I haven't measured the size of the orfice. I would have to say what ever the stock orfice size is in a B-164. Is there different sizes and if so what size should I be using?
Quote:

A 6 month UOA, with TBN, will give you a good look at your oil and whether you can go the full year safely or pick a different interval.


I just sent Blackstone some used oil for a UOA/TBN report. I haven't received their reports yet.


02 F250, 4X4, 4R100, 7.3L Diesel, 3.73, Edge CTS Digital Gage, Tymar 4" exhaust & HPX. IH Bellowed Up-Pipes.
Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: Griz95] #857860
03/15/07 08:56 PM
03/15/07 08:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
Griz95 Offline OP
Griz95  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
I forgot to mention this is for a Power Stroke engine


02 F250, 4X4, 4R100, 7.3L Diesel, 3.73, Edge CTS Digital Gage, Tymar 4" exhaust & HPX. IH Bellowed Up-Pipes.
Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: Griz95] #857861
03/16/07 12:29 AM
03/16/07 12:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,756
RI
unDummy Offline
unDummy  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,756
RI
How is it plumbed?

Someone on the internet mentioned that the b50/164/341 have 1/16 orifices built into the filter. That should be small enough for a big powerstroke as long as oil pressure isn't low. Contact baldwin for specifics.

For anyone that plans on using this on their vehicle, consider a <~.040 restrictor in the mount or plumbing.

The UOA will answer your questions.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: unDummy] #857862
03/16/07 04:50 AM
03/16/07 04:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 39,806
Pottstown, PA
Gary Allan Offline
Gary Allan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 39,806
Pottstown, PA
Oh!! A diesel!! (Oh-jedi master. You seek Yoda!)

Soot control. I'll bow out to the diesel jocks. Homey hasn't done diesel in a long while. I have no idea if your engine loads one of these filters over any time frame.

As undummy says, UOA will be your guide.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: Gary Allan] #857863
03/16/07 05:04 AM
03/16/07 05:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Silver Lake Dunes, MI
tjbeggs Offline
tjbeggs  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Silver Lake Dunes, MI
I know of a number of people running them on powerstrokes as a bypass filter. they are rated at 2 microns at 50% and 15 micron at 98 something% not terribly great but for the money its a decent way to go. Also if you are familiar with dale Isley at Tymar Performance he sells a kit and I beileve it is based on the B-164. they B-164 is rated at around .5 GPM so the flow control orfice will be perfect.

I was planning to use this setup but won a frantz TP filter on ebay so I am going to run that. The only draw back to this is service intervals. the TP filter will need changed at around 3k and the b-164 you should be able to easily go 10k with UOA for the first few times.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: tjbeggs] #857864
03/16/07 05:30 AM
03/16/07 05:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
Griz95 Offline OP
Griz95  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 162
Bremerton, WA
I bought this kit from Dale at Tymar. I guess I'll wait until I hear from Blackstone to see how affective this kit is. I am a little concerned about the micron rating of this setup. I am under the impression that harmful curd is anything 5 microns and above. So does that mean the B-164 isn't a very good bypass?


02 F250, 4X4, 4R100, 7.3L Diesel, 3.73, Edge CTS Digital Gage, Tymar 4" exhaust & HPX. IH Bellowed Up-Pipes.
Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: Griz95] #857865
03/16/07 05:45 AM
03/16/07 05:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Silver Lake Dunes, MI
tjbeggs Offline
tjbeggs  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Silver Lake Dunes, MI
not by the ratings its not. but if your goal is 10k oil changes it will probably do just what you want it to.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: tjbeggs] #857866
03/16/07 06:17 AM
03/16/07 06:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 751
Texas
RalphPWood Offline
RalphPWood  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 751
Texas
That's one advantage to filters that don't work. You don't need to change them as often. the Frantz will clean the oil about 20 times better. Why not install the Frantz and change the oil and both filters once a year. The reason you change the submicronic bypass filters more often is so you don't need to drain the oil. If your bypass filter is any good there is no reason to change the full flow filter more than once a year. There is no free lunch with filters. if they clean oil they need to be changed or the oil will get dirty and need to be changed.

Ralph


[b]Ralph Wood [b]
Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: unDummy] #857867
03/16/07 08:30 AM
03/16/07 08:30 AM

Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

How is it plumbed?

Someone on the internet mentioned that the b50/164/341 have 1/16 orifices built into the filter. That should be small enough for a big powerstroke as long as oil pressure isn't low. Contact baldwin for specifics.

For anyone that plans on using this on their vehicle, consider a <~.040 restrictor in the mount or plumbing.

The UOA will answer your questions.





I've got a 1/16" orifice on my Amsoil and that netted me around one quart/minute at idle (25psi). I have no idea how much it flows at 60psi cruise.

The original Amsoil filter orifice was really small and only netted me around 12 ounces per minute at idle, the reason I drilled it out some...but I'm also running thorugh almost 25 feet of 1/4" hose too.

steved

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? #857868
03/16/07 06:26 PM
03/16/07 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 39,806
Pottstown, PA
Gary Allan Offline
Gary Allan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 39,806
Pottstown, PA
I don't know about the other bypass setups ..the BK12 has no restrictor and the PB-80a measured out @ .029. I thought that the 1-16 threaded part was a nipple and that someone had left an assembly aid in by mistake. I then happened to catch the small "spot" on the brass piece and squinted real hard and up close to see that it was indeed a hole ..and that the threaded part was integrated (part of the casting). I was working in medical tubing extrusion at the time and had access to fine pin gauges.

Re: Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter? [Re: Gary Allan] #857869
03/16/07 08:41 PM
03/16/07 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 302
Idaho
md_lucky_13 Offline
md_lucky_13  Offline
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 302
Idaho
The Wix and equiv. versions of the B50 have the 12-15 micron rating.

That is why you want to run a true Hastings/Baldwin B50 (or B164) filter. They are rated MUCH better then that.

I believe the rating is 2 nominal, 8 absolute. I havenít looked at specs in a long, long time. I'm sure you can dig them up though.



There is still a major debate about the need for sub-micronic filtration. While I have to agree that more filtration is gooder (duh?), the actual cost to get to that submicronic filtration does not justify the ends. Lets keep things in perspective:

Human hair - 80 Micron
Human Red Blood Cell - 8 Micron
B-50 Filtering Efficiency - 8 Micron


Most of the reading I have done puts the damage particles at +/- 12 Micron. Some say as high as 25 micron (which is where most full-flow filters will filter to). Hydraulic fluids are down around 2-3 micron.

Think of it as more of a curve. The higher the micron, the higher the wear. As you decrease micron size floating in the oil, you decrease wear. At some point, you reach a spot on the graph where lowering micron makes a minimal difference in wear. It is there. It may even be measurable. But it doesn't justify the costs of replacement filters PLUS replacement oil.

I just bought 13 quarts of Amsoilís new CJ-4 oil. At $130, I'm going to do everything in my freaking power to make sure I have to put as few make-up quarts of oil in that ole engine as humanly possible.

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