Redline vs Motul 300V

427Z06 · Dec 27, 2006

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BTW, who is this JG and what testing is it that's being discussed?

Max

You can read about it here: http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com

But it's racing oil not made for street use, unless you want to change your oil every few hundred miles.

buster · Dec 27, 2006

I think you got it backwards. You have corrupted many threads with your insults and arrogant attitude. Believe me, others notice it. You don't know how to debate friendly.

Second, other then M1, I have no brand allegiance which is why I try many different oils. What is wrong with that? So far over 55k miles in my car I have used M1, MC, Hav., GC, and now Amsoil. I like to try different brands.

Anyway back to the topic. The Joe Gibb's test was only a Hp test between their product and others. It doesn't site any meaningful wear data so you can't draw any real conclusions from it other than RL did not increase Hp over the brands they tested. As many pointed out previously, they are testing JG 5w-20 to RL/M1/RP 30wt racing oils. Hardly a fair comparison. (RL 30wt Racing oil is 10.5 cSt @ 100C)
Mobil 1/RP showed better Hp gains and that could be from the lower HT/HS.

bluemax1 · Dec 27, 2006

Quote:

Quote:

BTW, who is this JG and what testing is it that's being discussed?

Max

Click to expand...

You can read about it here: http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com

But it's racing oil not made for street use, unless you want to change your oil every few hundred miles.

Thanks for the link. That website seems to be as devoid of any information relevant to this discussion as possible with the one small exception that they do agree that highly stressed engines need more ZDDP and moly.

The little excel graph of torque gains is quite irrelevant in my case, and has been stated shows no specifics of any kind regarding what weight oils were used.

Max

buster · Dec 27, 2006

Definitely hard to draw any meaningful conclusions from the JG test. Interesting to look at nevertheless.

bluemax1 · Dec 27, 2006

Hmmmm.... things of more interest to collect in a thread about Redline oils. The post midway down the thread in this link:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...part=2&vc=1

That talks about Terry Dyson's comments on Redline. Interesting read. Now if only I could find more concrete info about 300V. BTW, I happened to find that thread searching under '300V'.

Max

buster · Dec 27, 2006

Max, RL for racing is a great choice. The reason why RL has been so talked about/debated over the years is bc of the fluky UOA's seen here.

lexrx3 · Dec 27, 2006

We need to remember that JG and the rest of the racing industry will do anything for an extra 1 or 2 HP. Even sacrifice some wear for it. Certainly not the same for PCMO.

bluesubie · Dec 27, 2006

bluemax - FWIW, there are a couple of UOA's posted in the UOA forum on 300V 5W40 that was ran in an STi. I don't recall if it was stock or modified though. His user name is RallyJon although I think he may use a different car for rallying.

-Dennis

AndyH · Dec 27, 2006

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bluemax - FWIW, there are a couple of UOA's posted in the UOA forum on 300V 5W40 that was ran in an STi. I don't recall if it was stock or modified though. His user name is RallyJon although I think he may use a different car for rallying.

-Dennis

Jon's STi is mostly (or completely) stock save for some suspension upgrades, IIRC. And you are correct, he doesn't rally his STi...he and his wife have (or had...I think they may have sold it) a Toyota Celica Alltrac rally car.

427Z06 · Dec 27, 2006

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I think you got it backwards.

No, I have it right, you have it backward. You made irrelevant and unsupportable comments on Red Line oil and when I politely asked you to stop doing so, you went into a rant. Go back to the beginning of the thread and read it yourself.

427Z06 · Dec 27, 2006

Link to Terry's comments:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...7386#Post157386

buster · Dec 28, 2006

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POE bases are more expensive , thus the PAO and others less costly are used in the oils you list above

True, they are more expensive and have some desirable qualities. RL's shear stability is as good as it gets.

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If you can derive a TBN level out of a oil that is spent of adds then that says the base oils are naturally protecting against acidity.RL does that.

RL is mostly POE with a mix of PAO and others and still has reserve acid neutralization capabilty based on every test posted here.

I'll have to take his word on this despite 3 different labs telling me not to run ANY oil to ZERO TBN. Good to know though.

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For you proof, ASTM D 5275 on RL 10w-30 12/12/2000 = 1.3%
Amsoil ATM = 6.81%
M1 Advanced = 0 % can't get this anymore
M1 Tri Syn = 0.78% can't get this anymore

Numbers don't seem accurate, but again I'll have to take them for what they are.

Quote:

One reason that the oils like M1"look" good is that they do NOT have the natural solvency that A POE or Diester based oil does thus will chemically bypass the carbon deposits that may be embedded internally.

This one is interesting. I've never heard anyone say Mobil 1 left deposits behind or any other PAO based oil with a good additive package. I know 3 people that have tore down their engines using nothing but M1 and they were spotless. Same with other synthetics and dino oils. Wouldn't this suggest though that some of the good UOA's we see with other oils are not showing carbon deposits left behind?

Again, Terry could be 100% correct. He knows a lot more than I do about the subject. I've just read/heard otherwise from other sources.

Gene K · Dec 28, 2006

I think Terry's reference about running RL to zero was in reference to a Blackstone TBN test. The formulation of RL tends to have more ability to neutralize acid than the TBN numbers would lead you to believe. It is likely equal to a 4.0 TBN PAO oil at 2.0 TBN. Now throw in Blackstone Labs 2.0 low TBN reading and if you show any TBN reading at all even 0.1 it was not over extended.

buster · Dec 28, 2006

Gene, you could be right.

bluemax1 · Dec 28, 2006

Well, Redline 10w40 definitely seems like a good choice for my application. I've only found one Motul 300V 10w40 UOA for a tracked car (Porsche) and it looked promising.

I suppose the only way to find out if it's a good option is to do comparative UOA's with the Redline and Motul.

If the Redline's been working well for me, why change? Well, there's always a possibility of something better out there. If no one ever tries, then we'll never know will we? I was just hoping that maybe someone on these forums HAD tried 300V on a highly stressed engine (aside from the one single Porsche) and might provide some ready made answers. At least so far, it doesn't appear that 300V is potentially harmful (harmful as in not being able to provide adequate protection to an engine being raced). But then again, I guess that's what 300V was meant for?

Max

Gene K · Dec 28, 2006

Based on how it stands up in 16,000+ rpm AMA 600cc SuperSport Bikes on the track I would say Motul 300V is excellent.

forcedtalon · Dec 28, 2006

I dought you will see any wear diffrence with eather one. Pick one out of a hat.

427Z06 · Dec 28, 2006

bluemax1 · Dec 28, 2006

427Z06,

thanks for taking the time to dig up all those links, but I've already read through all the ones that were relevant searching in the UOA forum, this forum and the Euro Oil forum.

Several of those links aren't 300V (which I gather is a little different from their other oils like 8100 etc). And I also didn't bother to read any of the 300V 0w20 reports since there's absolutely no way I'll be using an oil that thin.

I read the 5w40 300V results that I could find and was specifically looking for 10w40 300V reports, but there was only one relevant link I could find and that was for the Porsche using 10w40 300V at the track. I guess the price of 300V doesn't exactly make it a common choice and folks using 300V who push their cars at the track seem an even rarer breed.

Max

bluesubie · Dec 28, 2006

Don't know if you've seen these 300V 5W40 UOA's:

STi

S4

Redline vs Motul 300V

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