I see the term Ester quite a bit. I have even seen it as an ingredient for Motul and VP Racing oils. Does anyone know what Ester is and is it good, bad or excellent? Does it compare to Amsoil? Thank you...
What is Ester Oil?
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I beleive that Ester oils are Group V motor oils, meaning that they are the highest form of Synthetic Motor Oils.
Others please chime in and correct me if I'am wrong.
Others please chime in and correct me if I'am wrong.
Here's a explanation of the various types of esters used in lubricants courtesy of Hatco Corp, a major suppplier to the lubricants industry.
http://www.hatcocorporation.com/pages/about_esters.html
http://www.hatcocorporation.com/pages/about_esters.html
Is Amsoil Ester based? Is Ester bad for seals and if so what seals and what type of problems can occur with swelling seals?
Most Amsoil pcmo's (passenger car motor oils) are PAO (polyalphaolefin) based. I believe the XL series is grp III based. Even though they have PAO or grp III bases, theres still a good chance they have a small amount of esters in them.
More than you ever wanted to know about esters
Esters, General
Complex Esters
More than you ever wanted to know about esters
Esters, General
Complex Esters
I've heard that the HDD and TSO oils have some esters, and likely some of the other oils as well. I don't know what percentage, but I heard HDD has the most. I haven't seen anything that proves this such as a statement from Amsoil or a GC analysis, so it is heresay.
Ester's are the best materials for base stock's for both aircraft and automotive usuage. They are the most expensive base stocks to produce and they really are not required for a good passenger car oil. Much lower types of base stock's can do a good shop in a car just not the best. Their is some down side to esters like them competeing with the metal surfaces with the AW/EP additives but that is not to major of a concern. Most of the really positive things you have heard about synthetic is true of ester based oils but not so much for PAO and GIII synthetics. Ester based oils are very polar and will clean and engine of build up with in a few oil changes. Esters have much higher film strength then dino,PAO or GIII. Ester also have better hot and cold properites then most PAO,GIII and PAO base stocks.
I was thinking about changing over to Motul or VP racing which are Ester based. I currently run Amsoil. Will Ester based oil hurt any seals? Should I do this change? I know Motul gear oil is twice the price, but I guess what they say, you get what you pay for, is probably true. Decisions decisions...
Yes you can switch. Esters will not hurt seals, and are used in some cases partially for their seal swell abilities. PAO tends to shrink seals, ester tends to swell them. Many oils contain some ester. I believe that Chevron uses an ester carrier oil for their additive package, one of the reason their GPII+ oils perform so well I think. The only thing that would cause a problem was if you already had a seal problem and a “false” seal, typically dirt, was cleaned out from the ester oil.
That VP Racing oil seems like a pretty good deal. I'd like to know who blends it for them. At any rate, I bought 10 gallons and I might buy 10 more. Hard to pass up the 3.50/qt price tag, and this oil seems to perform fairly well from the few UOA's I've seen.
That VP Racing oil seems like a pretty good deal. I'd like to know who blends it for them. At any rate, I bought 10 gallons and I might buy 10 more. Hard to pass up the 3.50/qt price tag, and this oil seems to perform fairly well from the few UOA's I've seen.
I belive that esters are formed by reacting fats with acids or alchols under various conditions. Amsoil's first synthetic were diester based and were very good. They were also much more expensive then PAO base stocks. Neo oil is diester based. Motul uses a lot of esters and some of their oils are 100% warwe based. Fuch's has some unique vegtable base esters it uses.Redline is estwe based as well. Many oils use some esters in them but the amounts are usualy low do to their cost.
Natural esters are usualy what the fragance in plants and the benifical chemical are bound too. That is why alcohol is so often used to make extracts from plants and herbs. Most ester are eaisly disolved in alcohol. Alcohol is often used to clean aircraft parts in jet turbines because they use so much ester in the oils.
John
Per the Development Chemist at Silkolene
Fuchs GT1 is based on biodegradable synthetic esters
Per the Development Chemist at Silkolene
Fuchs GT1 is based on biodegradable synthetic esters
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Too bad we don't have Tom NJ to clear this up.
Following Tom's comments Mobil may be tested in UK. I doubt any information will be released for publication.
I'm still here, just avoiding some sensitive topics.
Esters are produced by chemically reacting alcohols and acids. With diesters, the acids are white solid powders and the alcohols are oily liquids (not the drinking kind!). With Polyol esters (POEs), the acids are light smelly liquids and the alcohols are white solid powders or flakes. The acids and alcohols are mixed together in a reactor and heated to temperatures from 350 to 500F under agitation and vacuum, where they react together to form larger molecules called esters. After additional purification steps, the final ester product is a clear, water white to pale yellow, oily and essentially odorless liquid.
Compared to other common synthetics such as PAOs and Group IIIs, esters have superior high temperature stability, lower volatility, better film strength and lubricity, and better cleaning capability. They also help to dissolve more additives and keep seals pliable.
Esters are not very common in motor oils anymore because of their high price, but they are used at additive dosages to enhance PAOs, mainly by balancing seal swell, solubilizing additives, and providing lubricity. Their main performance advantage - high temperature stability - is not generally needed in car engines, so PAOs or PAO/ester blends often provide better value. In hot applications, however, such as jet engines and certain industrial uses, esters are used extensively as the sole base oil.
Tom
Esters are produced by chemically reacting alcohols and acids. With diesters, the acids are white solid powders and the alcohols are oily liquids (not the drinking kind!). With Polyol esters (POEs), the acids are light smelly liquids and the alcohols are white solid powders or flakes. The acids and alcohols are mixed together in a reactor and heated to temperatures from 350 to 500F under agitation and vacuum, where they react together to form larger molecules called esters. After additional purification steps, the final ester product is a clear, water white to pale yellow, oily and essentially odorless liquid.
Compared to other common synthetics such as PAOs and Group IIIs, esters have superior high temperature stability, lower volatility, better film strength and lubricity, and better cleaning capability. They also help to dissolve more additives and keep seals pliable.
Esters are not very common in motor oils anymore because of their high price, but they are used at additive dosages to enhance PAOs, mainly by balancing seal swell, solubilizing additives, and providing lubricity. Their main performance advantage - high temperature stability - is not generally needed in car engines, so PAOs or PAO/ester blends often provide better value. In hot applications, however, such as jet engines and certain industrial uses, esters are used extensively as the sole base oil.
Tom
It sounds like Ester synthetic oils are the best. What oil has the most Ester?
High ester content does not guarantee a better oil - the additives are more critical than the base oils, unless you are going for extended drain. Most brands will not disclose even the types of base oils they use, nonetheless the percentages. You'll have to rely on their statements to the extent that they wish to reveal it.
Tom
Tom
Thanks everyone for the input and advice!!! Tom NJ may I ask what your favorite oil is?
I use Mobil 1 EP and change it once a year.
Tom
Tom
What filter do you use?
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