Non-Synthetic ATF

[M Smith]

I’m sorry, but I don’t visit this particular “board issue” so I don’t have a sense of what your answer(s) may be. I’m sure you veterans really dislike these types of questions. Be that as it may, here goes.

Can you guys recommend a non-synthetic Dexron III ATF that generally has returned good wear numbers from the UOA’s you’ve seen here? My 16-year old just purchased a ’00 Camry with the A541E A/T and I’m going through it now replacing fluids, etc. I’m not too interested in spending the dough for synthetic fluids as I’m predicting (privately – I’d never tell my family of my prediction) he’ll likely crack it up, making the purchase of synthetic fluids a waste of dough. (Call me a pessimist if you will, but I consider myself to be a realist.)

Thanks.

Semper Fi.

 

[Cicero17]

At first I thought an older thread of mine had popped up again. My son bought an OO Camry at the beginning of the summer, but he is not likely to crack it up since he is very careful about money. His car has about 80K miles on it.

We used Chevron ATF in it. Changing the transmission fluid wasn't too hard, changing the transaxle fluid was a real chore. In any case, he claims it shifted smoother after changing the fluid and filter. (We found out after we bought the new filter that you only have to clean and reinstall the old one.)

 

[M Smith]

Thanks Cicero17 for your reply. probably overstated my degree of pessimism. My son is a pretty good kid, too, and so far he’s given me no reason to doubt his care in driving. His ’00 Camry has 76,000 miles; we just bought it.

Any problems you’ve encountered with this car that you can pass on?

 

[Cicero17]

The only problem with the car is the automatic transmission, we just have a hard time getting used to not being able to shift gears and use the clutch like a real man should. However, the car handles beautifully.

I read the Toyota sludge stories with interest. We changed the oil and used Supertech synthetic 5w-30 with a 5000 mile OCI plan.

 

[DaveJ]

My son aquired a 00 Camery that had TOTAL engine failure at 80K miles. He pulled the sludge maker down and dug out over 5 lbs of crud. It now has over 280,000 miles on it using Chevron Supreme 5W30 dino and 5000 mile OCI. He also added a Dual oil filter adapter and an oil cooler with a thermostat controled fan. I made a wide sump oil pan with a windage tray that added 2 quarts for a total volume of 7 QT's . He wont do a UOA, he says why spend $20+ for a sample when he can change the oil and filter for half the cost. Oh, he works for NAPA and his cost for parts is less. He has 20" rims and a ________ pipe on it. He said he has shifted it a quite few times at 6500+ RPM.

Please read about the Sludge problems and take action. DaveJ

 

[M Smith]

DaveJ

Thanks for your reply. This Camry has the 2.2 liter 4 cyl. I don't think that engine is noted for its sludge-making? But, to be on the safe side, I immediately started it on an Auto Rx treatment phase. I'm only ~200 miles into it now.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

If you must stay with Dino, Chevron is excellent ATF. Change often around 20K.

 

[Cicero17]

My son went ahead and bought a case of the Chevron ATF at Costco. I was thinking 25 to 30K, at least for the transmission, the transfer case can probably go longer. He put a bottle of injector cleaner through the engine and told me last night he thinks engine power has increased a little. Its possible he and I both put a bottle of injector cleaner in, we are not sure, too much going on to keep track.

Our only other automatic is the Odyssey and for it I plan the 30K partial change out schedule, using Honda brand oil unless someone convinces me there is something better out there.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

I would say the transfer case take a bit more punishment than the transmission. 20K is a good round number and if the transmission pan has a drain plug.....its a piece of cake!

 

[unDummy]

A140 4 cyl automatic
A541 6 cyl automatic

At 76k, I'd consider dropping/cleaning the pan and changing the ATF filter.

The differential also has a drain/refill plugs.

Any of the synthetic DexronIII should work well in that Toyota. Mobil1 and Royalpurple are pretty common in the autoparts stores. Speed and 4x4 shops will usually have some of the boutique fluids like Redline, Amsoil, Torco....

The 99-01 2.2 is a Toyota sludge monster. Simple more frequent maintenance or synthetic oil will prevent the issue.

 

[flathead6]

Sludge monsters. My '96 1MZ (V6) Camry has 180K + miles on it. Mobil 1 10W-30 every 6,000 miles & Toyota filter. Peeking into the oil fill tube is all I've done, but zero oil usage every 6K & it still gets 29 MPG @ 75 to 80 mph on the open road. Just change the oil & filter, using good filters and synthetic oil & change the air filter (I use either Purolator or Toyota) & those engines will go well over 1/4 million miles! Thansmissions will too. I also use Mobil 1 ATF, pan drain every 15 to 20K with fluid transfer every 100,000 miles and that A/W shifts at least as well as the day I drove it new off the lot in Roswell, NM. Those are dandy little cars.

 

[TomServo]

There's a class action lawsuit that's been settled about sludge in these (and some other) toyota engines...

Copied From Automotive News
----------------------------------------
LOS ANGELES -- Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. has quietly settled a class-action lawsuit that covers about 3.5 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles that may have been damaged by engine oil sludge.

Details of the settlement, which allows for third-party mediation of sludge claims rejected by Toyota, have been mailed to 7.5 million current and previous owners.

Critics contend Toyota has told customers and dealers too little about sludge issues. They say some customers took vehicles with dead engines to dealers who had little or no knowledge of the problem and often assumed it was the owners' fault.

Unhappy customers had no remedy other than hiring a lawyer to go after Toyota.

Under the agreement, owners whose claims have been denied by Toyota may submit them to a third-party mediator at no cost for binding arbitration.

"This settlement breathes life into claims that have been dead for years," said Gary Gambel, a lawyer for plaintiffs who sued Toyota. "This is not a settlement that gives a few dollars to everyone. The relief is exactly tied to the problems and damages that someone might have."

The lawsuit, filed in a Louisiana district court, is expected to be approved by the court in early February.

Toyotas at risk

About 3.3 million Toyota vehicles are susceptible to oil sludge, which can cause thousands of dollars in damage and require replacement of the engine. Here are the vehicles included in the settlement.

VEHICLE MODEL YEARS
Camry 4 cyl. 1997-2001
Camry 6 cyl. 1997-2002
Camry Solara 4 cyl. 1999-2001
Camry Solara 6 cyl. 1999-2002
Sienna 6 cyl. 1998-2002
Avalon 6 cyl. 1997-2002
Celica 4 cyl. 1997-1999
Highlander 6 cyl. 2001-2002
Lexus ES 300 1997-2002
Lexus RX 300 1999-2002
---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[unDummy]

How'd this thread swing from mineral ATF recommendation to sludge engine?

There aren't enough UOAs on cheap ATF's here to recommend a mineral-ATF. But, as long as it is Dexron III-h(and or MerconV), ANY mineral ATF should work well enough. Feel free to use department/autopart store brands.
I've done a couple of supertech flushes on older toyotas using cheap dexronIII. For the money, supertech has excellent performing cheap ATFs. Also, the same fluid can be used as PSF. And, store brand motor oil & filters should serve well enough for cheap 3k/3mo oil change intervals.

Investing in higher quality fluids and forcing the 16 year old to perform the maintenance and weekly PM checks, might just help add maturity to the driving style causing the vehicle to last longer. The 4-cyl would've been a better choice.

 

[2Fast4U]

For people doing diff fluid changes that might not be so easy to drain or refill might I recommend a fluid extractor. I've used the following with good results.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45403

Last night I picked up a fluid pump from walmart. It was something new in the oil section and goes right on oil/atf/diff fluid bottles. Some pumping is required but worked like a charm last night when I changed out my ATF. All I did was put the tube into the atf fill hole and pump away.