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Redline MTL in Nissan #706400 02/10/03 09:17 AM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Analysis Courtesy of Dyson Analaysis
Customer Name :
Oil Brand/Weight : Redline MTL
Type Equipment : [2001] Frontier 5-speed Transmission
Miles/Hours on oil : 6600
Total Miles/Hours : 54200

Results ppm/% Comments (blank=normal)

Wear
Copper 1
Iron 38
Chromium 0
Lead 6
Aluminum 8
Silicon 14
Tin 0

Additives
Boron [78]
Molybdenum 4
Sodium 4
Magnesium 6
Zinc 2420
Potassium 9
Phosphorus 2340
Calcium 2540
Physical Properties
Water negative
Fuel negative scale negative,trace,positive
Antifreeze negative
Soot NA
Oxidation NA scale 0-199
Nitration NA scale 0-199
Sulfur NA
TBN 12 Very Robust
[email protected] C 11.5
TAN 0.9
Particle count ISO 19/14, > 5ppm4632, >10ppm 624, > 15ppm 87,
> 20ppm 27 >25ppm 12, > 50ppm 2, >75ppm2,> 100ppm 0.

Terry
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Comments: I am very happy with the wear metals, the tbn, and the TAN. The viscosity reduction was minor. This Redline gear oil went 1.5 k more than the Amsoil TGR and had about 1/4 iron wear, and there were no loads hauled with the Amsoil in the tranny.

The mini-truck made four hauling trips for wood (750 pounds each) during this interval at 70 mph for 325 miles each with the Redline.

If any new info comes in, we will post it.

[ February 10, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706401 02/10/03 09:41 AM
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Bror Jace Offline
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Well, I guess the question of whether MTL has any moly in it (posted recently in the gear oil sub section) is answered.

It appears that MTL uses lots of ZDDP and some boron compounds for barrier anti-wear protection. Hey, whatever they used, it sure worked well. [Smile]

--- Bror Jace

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706402 02/09/03 11:33 PM
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Spector Offline
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Good analysis but gear oils are suppsoed to go 15,000-30,000 miles at least before being changed out. So an analysis at 6600 does not seem that impressive. What am I missing here? The MTL is the lighter of gorup if I remember correctly. 75W90, then a MTL-90 then MTL.

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706403 02/10/03 12:53 AM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Spector,

I dunno, what are you looking for? [Big Grin]

The reason for this analysis at the mileage indicated was to determine relative wear, tbn, and tan between Amsoil TGR (which I used in the past), and Redline MTL at approx. the same mileage.

If the wear metals appeared to be low with RL, I would continue to use Redline out to at least 10k and then resample, which I will do.

The plan is to also run some Scaheffer's gear lubes this summer and make similar comparisons.

Again, I am always looking for the best price/performance ratio, hence the short-term tests. In addition, I hope that other's might benefit from the comparitive analyses.


I hope that others will send in their UOA's for GL's as well.

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706404 02/10/03 01:27 AM
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Bror Jace Offline
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I figured 'Kule was using short durations for that reason ... comparison testing. If he left it in there for 30K or more miles, it would be years between samples and tests. [Eek!]

I know I appreciate the data ... and it saves me from getting mine tested. [Wink] I think I have 30,000 miles on mine ... or close to that.

We'd all like to think that we can make a fairly linear projection out to 25,000-30,000 or more miles as to how well the gear oil will hold up. This is often true ... but not always. We've seen fluids hold up for a while and then their performance just drops off a cliff for one reason or another. [Freak]

Last time I saw a bottle, Red Line MTL was classified as a 70W80 but I believe it was a 75W80 or 70W85 just a couple years ago. [I dont know]

Now, we need someone to test Honda MTF, Pennzoil & GM's synchromesh fluid ... not to mention BG Synchroshift, the comparable Royal Purple lube ... [Roll Eyes]

'Kule, what does your Nissan truck call for? I'd guess something like 75W90, which would have made MT-90 a better match.

Not that you have much to complain about with that MTL. [Wink]

--- Bror Jace

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706405 02/10/03 06:44 AM
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Pablo Offline
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First of all I like MTL. I use it!!

Now Mr. Defense kicks in.

I am going to write this and duck quickly [SPAZ!]

This kind of data is good, and it is data, but - I cannot conclude that Amsoil actually caused more wear in less miles with less load. What was in the tranny before? What, perhaps did the Amsoil clean out? What if the test was started with MTL? How many shifts were missed? How was the sample taken? Yes I'm a biased buttboy - but I have TGR in my rear end right now. I'll sample at 50 K miles (in about 6K miles)

Why was the cebu sad? Was it a aluminum or wooden canoe? oh sorry I've been listening to the kids music too much. [Eek!]

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706406 02/10/03 04:47 PM
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Spector Offline
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I use the MT90 and this month will be going to a 50-50 mix of Mt90 and MTL. I have not had it analyzed but I can tell you that the MT90 was a world of improvement over the Amsoil I had previously in this 6 spd. Cold shifting improved 100% with the MT90 and I expect it to improve with the 50-50 cocktail.

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706407 02/10/03 05:20 PM
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Bror Jace Offline
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I think your right about the limitations of analysis, Pablo but 'Kule has every right to be pleased with his results.

The Amsoil could have cleaned up old deposits and held them in suspension ... but I think that's more likely to happen with a more ester-intensive formula like Red Line, Synergen and NEO. [Smile]

--- Bror Jace

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706408 02/10/03 06:43 PM
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Pablo Offline
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Bror - just curious why you think the gear oils listed have more esters that TGR? (TGR is the premium Series 2000 75W-90)

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706409 02/11/03 09:06 AM
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Bror Jace Offline
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Oops, that was an Amsoil generalization on my part. The other oils I listed are primarily ester based.

I've always thought of Amsoil as having more PAO than ester.

Is this incorrect? [Confused]

--- Bror Jace

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706410 02/11/03 09:39 AM
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Pablo Offline
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I THINK the Series 2000 gear oils have more POE's than the "regular" Amsoil syn. gear oils - but I have NO idea how much vs. Redline, et al

[ February 11, 2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706411 02/11/03 08:21 AM
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MolaKule Offline OP
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Pablo,

The three previous oils were the Nissan factory stuff and two TGR's.

The two prior TGR reports (from OAI) showed about 25 ppm/1k, which is why (pardon the pun) I "shifted over" to MTL.

Now as I stated to TooSlick previously, it could be due to the other (prior) lubes cleaning up the case and picking up more residual iron from run-in.

The next test will show whether the case is clean and whether MTL can show some consistency.

I do know the shifting is smoother (in all temps)and there is less gear whine with the MTL than with the other fluids.

I too suspect more PE type polyol esters are in this fluid (%-wise) than in the S2000 TGR.

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706412 08/23/05 11:34 PM
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V1 Offline
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Hi guys. I know I'm just bit late to chime in here, but I think you'll understand.

I have some MT90 in my Mazda6 5-speed. It's been there for about 12k miles. I did notice improvements with MT90 over the factory fill, and the fluid still seems to be doing it's job. I'm sure I could keep it in there for another 12k without trouble. But, I recently developed an itch to replace it with some new MT90 so I can sample UOA and what not. You know how that goes. I'll be sending the old stuff in for analysis and posting in this section. See you then.

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706413 08/24/05 01:53 AM
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Al Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Spector:
I use the MT90 and this month will be going to a 50-50 mix of Mt90 and MTL. I have not had it analyzed but I can tell you that the MT90 was a world of improvement over the Amsoil I had previously in this 6 spd. Cold shifting improved 100% with the MT90 and I expect it to improve with the 50-50 cocktail.

That's what most of the kids with their Sentrta SPEV-V's run.

I have not tested my Gear/Tranny/or Punkins tested..I just have never had a problem with them in 44 years of driving. I know its no excuse..but everyone operatres with their own guidelines. I feel if I change any of thim in less than 40K or so that's overdoing it. [Smile] I have gone over 100K with no metal fines on the mag plugs. [Smile]

AutoTrannies..another story. I change out 50% ervery 15K jor so, [Smile] (Oh and I take samples for analysis.

But back to the thread....looks great. Probably a waste to ever sample again unless there is some specific reason to.

Re: Redline MTL in Nissan #706414 08/24/05 03:47 AM
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oilyriser Offline
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that analysis almost looks like a motor oil

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