Dexcool No Longer GM Factory Fill!!!

[brianl703]

If you'd bother to read the whole post, I didn't imply that you meant anything other than that some people don't bother to check the coolant level, to which I asked:

"Don't most cars these days come with a coolant level sensor and associated idiot light"?

Next time you get a sudden brainstorm to chastize me for "selective quoting" or whatever the percieved wrong that I commited is, try reading the whole post so you get the full context.
(EDIT: Your full post is also available up the page, making your hyperventilating about this even more baseless and unwarranted.)

Sheesh. By the way, nice waiting 8 days to reply. Do you routinely wait so long to reply to posts quoting yours, or was this a special case?

[ March 01, 2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
Next time you get a sudden brainstorm to quote me, brian, either quote the entire context or don't bother at all

---

Maybe the real problem is that you're just a little miffed because most cars indeed do have a low coolant level sensor, which you overlooked, which casts doubt on the validity of your statement.

That's not the real problem, is it?

 

[pbm]

Ray; How does your wife like the Cobalt. I think they look good and I have a lot of money on my GM card. How do you think it compares to a Corrolla or Civic.

 

[brianl703]

I'd just like to know if the Cobalt has a low coolant level sensor for those people who think that a 5 year coolant means they never have to check it.

 

[BlazerLT]

Most Dexcool problems are caused by defective rad caps rather than the coolant itself.

http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/dexcool-macs2001.htm

 

[Win]

The manual for my new GTO is explicit in specifying that only DexCool coolant is to be used at 50:50. It is dyed red as opposed to orange.

I converted all of my aluminum engine cars to DexCool when it first came out and have had no issues with any of them. I still change every two years, however, and probably will on this new car as well.

 

[GT Mike]

I've flushed my Grand Prix twice since I've owned it and accumulated some 75,000 miles on it in addition to the 54k that were on it when I bought it.

The original Dex I flushed at ~74k was muddy, rusty, and just plain nasty. It was brown instead of orange. I refilled with new Dex that time.

A year or so and some 30,000 miles later I discovered Peak Global Extended Life coolant (BTW, which type is this, and is it decent stuff?) and switched it over. There was still a trace of muddy Dex still in the system and it got flushed and refilled again. My coolant is now a funky urine-yellow color!

So far no sludging problems to speak of. I was told this coolant combined the long life of Dex with the no sludging properties of original green antifreeze and can be used to top off any type of antifreeze and its unique "chameleon" color will blend in undetectably with any existing coolant.

Are they full of it, or is it good stuff to continue using? I have no gripes so far.

 

[Gene K]

I read a press release somewhere saying DexCool was being replaced with another Coolant starting with the 2006 Model Cars. It also said it would be a Luminescent Orange. The rumor is it would be close to G05 in formulation and called DexCool II.

I have no idea if this is accurate!

Gene

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
Most Dexcool problems are caused by defective rad caps rather than the coolant itself.

http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/dexcool-macs2001.htm

---

If other coolants as less sensitive to faulty radiator caps ( as I believe they are), then Deathcool has problem.

Could that be why GM is going to drop it?

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I want to see a link to a reputable news article about the switch from Dex-Cool to G-05 or whatever else GM is going to replace Dex-Cool with.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by bbobynski:

Not sure how this rumor started but reports of DexCool's demise are wrong.

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That's too bad. Why does GM stick with that crap when it's so sensitive to faulty radiator caps etc.?

 

[Stinky Peterson]

My experience with coolant in gasoline engines is somewhat limited, however I have worked a lot with diesel engine coolants and my lab has analyzed over 20,000 samples. I thought I would check some numbers and show how the extended life coolant compares to conventional coolant. Almost all of our ELC is the nitrited version of Dexcool and is made by Texaco.

ELC
12123 tested
8268 (68.2%) - Normal
930 (7.7%) - Monitor
2486 (20.5%) - Action Required
420 (3.5%) Urgent

Conventional Coolants
6966 tested
2163 (31.1%) - Normal
391 (9.9%) - Monitor
3092 (44.4%) - Action Required
987 (14.2%) - Urgent

One of the simplest and easy-to-understand ways of judging the condition of a coolant is by measuring turbidity or cloudiness since instability and corrosion cause the coolant to be cloudy. New unused coolants measures around 5 NTU or below and you can easily read a newspaper through 2 inches of this coolant in a clear sample bottle. Of the ELC coolants tested 8067 or 66% were at 5 NTU or below. Of the conventional coolants 2455 or 35% were in this range.

In my opinion the ELC is clearly superior to conventional coolants, or at least so in diesel engines. We routinely see samples with over 12,000 hours that are in like new condition.

I don't doubt that people have had problems with the OAT coolants, and the characteristics of this type of coolant may have even caused other problems, but I don't think most people realize how detrimental air entry into a coolant system can be, especially if they don't know it is happening. When dealing with mechanical or for that matter any problem it's important to get to the root cause and not just treat the symptoms. If the radiator cap is bad or if the system is run low then you need to correct the problem and not just use a coolant that doesn't "appear" to be changing. Air entry leads to low pH which causes corrosion of iron parts. It also causes additives like silicates to precipitate and build scale and cause problems with water pump seals. The additives in OAT coolant form hard waxy coatings the provide better protection against corrosion and they act as lubricants. Conventional coolant do not form the same type of coatings.

As for mixing conventional coolants with OAT coolants it doesn't harm anything other than to dilute out the extended life additives and benefits. What you end up with is an hybrid or HOAT not unlike the G05 coolants. OAT coolants do clean systems so if you have one that has a lot of scale or is all gunky don't use it as you will probably find some leaks you didn't know you had.

If you're having bad luck with Dexcool then change but don't blame the coolant for mechanical problems or lack of maintenance.

 

[TonyMazz]

Agree, in fact you did my coolant sample, and was surprised that after 55K+ on the coolant that it shows that it has alot of life in it.

I think you hit it right on the head with maintenace....it's the caps....replace the caps AND keep your puke-tank at the proper level.

Do not let air into the system i.e. a dry puke tank or low level.

That's what they tell me at the shop....and just because it says Extended Life Coolant does not mean you don't have to open the hood and look at this stuff, i.e cap, puke-tank etc....

Just my 2.35 cents....

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by bbobynski:
...there have been other suppliers added and certified to supply the DexCool coolant for GM but it is still DexCool, it is still the same formulation and it is not changing...

---

Actually that's not quite correct. "DEX-COOL" is a performance spec, not a formulation spec. Some antifreeze/coolant products which meet GM's DEX-COOL performance spec. (and just as importantly, are licensed by GM as having achieved that status) do differ in detail as to actual formulation. As an example, Prestone's licensed DEX-COOL formulation uses some combination of two hydrated organic acid salts: sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate and sodium neodecanoate, as the formulation's corrosion inhibitor package. The last time I checked, Havoline/Mr. Goodwrench DEX-COOL formulation uses potassium 2-ethyl hexanoate only. Whether Prestone's approach is superior, inferior, or merely equivalent to Havoline's is best left to smarter people than me to speculate on, but the Prestone approach, nevertheless, does satisfy GM's DEX-COOL licensing protocol.

Word to the wise: Prestone's yellow-jug extended-life antifreeze/coolant concentrate also uses the same hydrated organic acid salts contained in the company's licensed DEX-COOL formulation. The difference? The stuff in the yellow jug is dyed green and is NOT licensed as DEX-COOL. (It's also priced lower.) The final upshot is that the SuperTech and Advance extended-life antifreeze/coolant concentrates are very likely made by Prestone, too*, but bottled by another company from bulk delivery.

*The SuperTech product uses the same alpha-numeric product and date code configuration that Prestone uses. I can't vouch for the Advance product since I don't have a nearby Advance Auto Parts store.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Any news? Is GM still switching from Dex-Cool to G-05 or is this not going to happen?

 

[Ray H]

11:47 a.m. tomorrow, eastern standard time. (G.M. would've preferred to have the switch-over coincide with the vernal equinox, but they heard you were getting anxious.)

 

[Buford T. Justice]

ME =>

<= Ray H

 

[99]

And to think everyone thought Dexcool was all that back when it first came out. My how things have changed.

[ December 11, 2005, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: 99 ]

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

I started running DexCool when I bought my 92 Hyundai eight years ago (it had a new engine then). That was when I first heard of the silicone deposits, and buildups in radiators, etc. It's not unlike the old leaded gasoline and pre-emissions vehicle era where people just EXPECTED their exhaust systems to rot. In the Silicate era, people just expected their water pump and radiator to be all scaled up. When I bought this one, the radiator tubes were occluded with silicate. Replaced the radiator, thermostat and flushed the system clear right through to the heater core, and have been running 70/30 DexCool ever since.

Had to replace the thermostat a couple of weeks back and the thing looked brand new (although stuck open), no deposits in the hole or on the 'stat. Radiator tubes are as shiny as the day I installed it, and no bleed through the seams on the radiator, either. This is 8 years and 150,000 miles later. When they replaced the water pump at the timing belt change, IT was like brand new, and so was the inner block behind the water pump.

I change it out averaging every year and a half (I could never leave ANY coolant in service for 5 years, nor spark plugs 100,000 miles either, for that matter), but I just can't believe DexCool is as evil as some folks are saying. It's performed really well for me, but technology moves, I guess.

If I see a reason with THIS application to go to another coolant, I will, but I simply can't see anything but beneficial results with this stuff.

 

[Big Jim]

I had a similar experience. I started using Dexcool shortly after it was introduced on my 91 Mercury Tracer LTS (Mazda DOHC engine). I changed coolant every year on that car. I flushed it completely when I installed that coolant the first time and then just did a drain and refill after that. The radiator always looked brand new and it still had the original hoses and thermostat when I crashed it at 170,000 miles.

The replacement car is my current 98 Ford Contour SVT. I changed out the factory coolant when it was a year old. The silicate drop out had already stained the coolant bottle and still does today. I still do a coolant change every year. It had a full flush the first time and most of the time since then it just gets a drain and refill. It now has 212,000 miles on it with original hoses and thermostat. Except for the green stains in the coolant bottle, everything still looks new. It is interesting to note that in 99 Ford started using Dexcool in Cougars (nearly the same engine).

I as well as you will continue to use this same coolant in this car. It works wonderfully well so I see no need to change.

I started using Dexcool before it was controversial. It always worked well for me, so I see no reason to abandon it. Part of what got me into using Dexcool was the wonderful information about it on the Texaco web site. None of that information is there now. It came down sometime after Chevron bought Texaco.

It is worth noting that Ford almost started using Dexcool on other models besides the Cougar. I remember early training literature on the 99 (or maybe it was the 00) Lincoln Continental saying that it was going to be equipped with orange coolant. Something must have changed their minds.

I also have an 03 Ford Escape. It also has nearly the same engine. It was factory filled with Ford Gold (G05). I change it once a year as well so it has had two coolant changes. The G05 works well so I do not intend to use anything different. Since it is the same coolant as it came with, I have only done a drain and refill. I might do a flush when it is five years old.