Toyota Long Life Coolant (Red) same as GM Dexcool?

[Ray H]

Getting back to the original poster's question, I took a few moments to research the Toyota juice. The back of the Toyota jugs lists four primary ingredients and their CAS numbers:

ethylene glycol (CAS#: 107-21-1)
diethylene glycol (CAS#: 111-46-6)
organic acid salt (CAS#: 532-32-1)
hydrated inorganic salt (CAS#: 1310-58-3)

Virtually all antifreeze/coolant products in general use, except those based on propylene glycol "environmentally friendly" products use the two listed glycols. I suspect the second is an unavoidable byproduct of the synthesis procedure, but someone with more chemistry behind him than I have would be able to verify or dismiss that speculation. The two listed salts caught my attention though. I plugged the CAS numbers into my browser and got immediate hits. The "organic acid salt" in the Toyota juice is sodium benzoate. This is clearly the organic acid salt corrosion inhibitor, and obviously differs from the two that Prestone chose for its particular DEX-COOL flavor. The "hydrated inorganic salt" is potassium hydroxide. I suspect, but can't verify, that the potassium hydroxide is used as a pH buffer. (again, someone with more chemistry training would be welcome to chime in) In any event, there's reason to believe that the Toyota antifreeze/coolant is really an OAT-type, devoid of silicates and phosphates (or very nearly so), and though not identical to any of the licensed DEX-COOLs, is close enough in principle that Toyotas would run just dandy on Prestone DEX-COOL, and quite probably, a HOAT formula such as Zerex G-05. About the only thing I wouldn't trust to a recent Toyota that came factory filled with cherry soda-pop coolant would be silicate and phosphate-laden conventional Prestone. By the way, the new -cheap- SuperTech extended life antifreeze/coolant at Wally*World lists the same ingredients as Prestone's licensed DEX-COOL, much of the same descriptive text on the back of the jug, but without the licensed DEX-COOL imprimatur from GM. In another thread someone stated that the extended life SuperTech juice is dyed green, not orange. (more "rainbow confusion" for car owners, pump jockeys, and some independent radiator shop owners)

 

[Brian Reid]

quote:

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Ray H:
In any event, there's reason to believe that the Toyota antifreeze/coolant is really an OAT-type, devoid of silicates and phosphates (or very nearly so), and though not identical to any of the licensed DEX-COOLs, is close enough in principle that Toyotas would run just dandy on Prestone DEX-COOL, and quite probably, a HOAT formula such as Zerex G-05.

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Oddly when GM made the switch to DEXCOOL, and Toyota Corollas and Geo Prisms were both coming down the assembly lines at NUMI together, Toyota advised dealers to never use DEXCOOL and factory filled with the red stuff.

 

[Brian Reid]

quote:

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Ray H:
In-the-field reports from owners and service personnel have indicated DEX-COOL (even the Havoline stuff) to be both efficient and harmless in Toyotas. Gosh, I wonder whether Toyota might have had some ulterior motive in mind with its advice...

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I can't imagine what *that* motive could be.

I've used DEXCOOL since it came out in a number of personal vehicles, American, European, and Japanese, and had no trouble of any kind.

 

[Ray H]

Concur!

I firmly believe the catastrophic reports attributed to DEX-COOL were in cooling systems with previously underlying and undiagnosed problems. No antifreeze/coolant can protect against pre-existing conditions anymore than the fanciest, boutique ATF can solve a mechanical problem in a worn automatic transmission. Another thing I firmly believe is that when going from phosphate and silicate-laced conventional "green" to any extended life antifreeze/coolant, get every last vestige of the old juice out first with distilled or de-ionized water flushes, and use only distilled or de-ionized water to dilute the new stuff. If there's evidence of scaling or sediment, use a chemical flush, first. OAT and HOAT corrosion inhibitors cannot do their job through a pre-existing layer of bonded chemical crud. Doesn't hurt to replace the thermostat and radiator cap as pre-emptive prophylaxis, either.

[ August 10, 2004, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[Ray H]

In-the-field reports from owners and service personnel have indicated DEX-COOL (even the Havoline stuff) to be both efficient and harmless in Toyotas. Gosh, I wonder whether Toyota might have had some ulterior motive in mind with its advice...

[ August 10, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
Concur!

I firmly believe the catastrophic reports attributed to DEX-COOL were in cooling systems with previously underlying and undiagnosed problems.

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I've run 3 vehicles with Dex. The one that came factory equipped with Dexcool was the one that gave me all the trouble. It's a '96 Impala SS The other two, a '93 Ciera and a '86 Yamaha FZX700, came equipped with green, and I did not really take too much precaution in flushing them. Zero problems in 5 years for one and 4 for the other. I left the Dex in the Ciera the FULL 5 years and only flushed it a couple of weeks ago. The bike has had a couple of non-coolant related problems that caused the Dex to get replaced twice in 4 years.

It's a hit or miss thing...

 

[Cooper]

Okay, I have a Toyota with Green coolant. I want to go to the red toyota coolant. What is the best way to do it. Should I drain all the fluid, fill with water, let it run, drain, then fill with 50/50 distilled water/red toyota coolant? I have never done a coolant change before.

 

[IslaVistaMan]

Coop, the best and easiest way to go to the new Toyota coolant is to grab some of their "pink" 50-50 pre-mix and use that to flush the system.

Toyota's own service manuals call for using coolant mixes for doing system maintenance -- never water, of any kind.

Is it more expensive? Yes. But will it work better and be more convenient? Absolutely, especially if your cooling system is in good shape to start with. You don't have to worry about dilution problems, you're never introducing hard water into the system, and you're using factory-approved stuff.

Drain fully (radiator and block) when cold, re-fill with new stuff, drive for ten miles or so, let cool, drain radiator and block again, and then final fill. Bring up to temp, burp, add more if needed and cap-off. You're done!

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by Coop0129:
...Should I drain all the fluid, fill with water, let it run, drain, then fill with 50/50 distilled water/red toyota coolant? I have never done a coolant change before.

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Flushing with distilled water is a good idea, but when finished (it may take 6 or so drains, refills, and warmups to elliminate color - yeah, it's time consuming - trust me, I know...) your system will still contain about half its capacity with distilled water. You don't want to pour in 50/50 pre-diluted antifreeze on top of that. You'd end up with about a 25/75 antifreeze to water mix if you did. Do your final refill with your choice of antifreeze concentrate. What you end up with might not be precisely 50/50, but it should be within 10%. That would handle even Ohio winters with no freeze-up worries, yet protect against corrosion and summer boil-over.

 

[wantin150]

A couple of things I would like to add. I had a 93 Corolla go to 176K (I sold it and it is still on the road). It ALWAYS had that grey sludge in the bottom of the resevoir and I used NOTHING but Prestone yellow from 40k on and changed it every 30k (Complete flush including engine block). I did have to replace the radiator around 150k due to a small crack in the top of it (plastic) which could have just been age. A water pump was also replaced at some point in time but there was nothing to indicate it's failure was coolant related.

I was reading my manuals for my 03 Matrix and my 04 Tacoma. The 03 service interval for the coolant is 30K. The service interval for my 04 is 100k and then every 50K. Did the quality of the fluid change that much in a year? Or did Toyota realize that 30K was too soon for the Long-Life stuff? BTW, the Tacoma is Super Long Life or some bull like that.

I am also glad I read this about the RLWW because I had a bottle in my hand the other day and didn't buy it.

And another thing is this. The Pontiac Vibe is the same as the Matrix. Engine codes are exact. Assume Toyota is running Toyota red. What's the Pontiac running if the two aren't compatible? (Or maybe I mis-read the compatibility issue.)

 

[LazLong]

Another thing is this. The Pontiac Vibe is the same as the Matrix. Engine codes are exact. Assume Toyota is running Toyota red. What's the Pontiac running if the two aren't compatible? (Or maybe I mis-read the compatibility issue.)

I have an '05 Vibe. The user manual says to ONLY use Dex-Cool, which is why I'm here. I'm about to drain my radiator and replace my water pump since I'm replacing my serpentine belt, and I want to know if Dex-Cool is the same our compatible with Toyota's as I have two (other) Toyota's, and having to deal with only one coolant would be nice.

 

[zzyzzx]

I am using regular green coolant in a 2000 Camry for years with no I'll effects. I like the idea of not having to keep a separate container just for one vehicle out of the 5 that I maintain.

 

[meadows]

What is the difference between Toyota red and Toyota pink?

 

[Amkeer]

Toyota Red is concentrated and needs to be filled with DISTILLED WATER. I use the Red in my 2003 Tacoma. The rest get the premixed pink. You want to only use the compatible coolant and nothing else.

 

[simple_gifts]

Red and Pink are compatible with each other

Pink has the longer service life than red.
Red= Long Life Coolant, LLC
Pink = Super Long Life Coolant = SLLC

There are after market versions; I use Beck Arnley because it is available @ the local auto parts store.

 

[Jim K]

I have a 2014 corolla and use the Valvoline Coolant made for Toyota . I drain the radiator by taking off the plug at the bottom of the radiator and refill with the Valvoline Coolant once a year . How is that?

 

[Jim K]

Oh, I just found a thread of people changing similar to me and ok it. I assume the Valvoline fluid I use is just fine.

 

[Jake_J]

I have an '05 Vibe. The user manual says to ONLY use Dex-Cool, which is why I'm here. I'm about to drain my radiator and replace my water pump since I'm replacing my serpentine belt, and I want to know if Dex-Cool is the same our compatible with Toyota's as I have two (other) Toyota's, and having to deal with only one coolant would be nice.

The Matrix and Vibe where built at the same factory and both have all an Toyota power train and cooling system and where filled at the factory with Toyota pink SLLC. The manual for the Vibe states to use Dex-cool but that's not what the car came from the factory from. You can use Dex-cool or SLLC, in reality Toyota SLLC is like a Dex-cool with the addition of phosphate and uses slightly different corrosion inhibitors. Dex-cool and SLLC are also very similar in color, so when you mix them the appearance doesn't change.

 

[simple_gifts]

The Matrix and Vibe where built at the same factory

Widely reported by many, but not actually true; Matrix was built in Ontario, Vibe in California.

They are both produced from a joint alliance between toyota and GM and obviously share the same platform

 

[Amkeer]

They were. When GM went Bankrupt Toyota moved away from them. The plant where my 2003 Tacoma was built is NUMMI which was joint Toyota and GM. That plant is now owned and operated by Tesla.

Older Toys use the concentrated red. Newer Toys drain and refill with 50/50 from Toyota or the Zerex Asian if you want to save a dollar.