I would also like to know which price is good. Also, I would like to know if I could give your office a visit when I come into the states. I will be biking through there, and it wouldn't be much out of my way to go.
Motorguard install options for a 7317 filtered car
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The website is correct the price is $130. All those other things you said should work as well or better -- did you put in all the time to put them thru tests, etc, to be sure of no meltdowns or other problems before you decided on the copper and plan out the best way to put the pieces together to get you the ultimate submicronic bypass filter? And because I take pride in my work I do not just churn
I DO NOT charge sales tax for out of state buyers!! It is on the order page because some states are starting to have businesses pay them for anyone from their state buying from them.
Any of you that have bought filters from me that are out of the State of Texas have not paid sales tax. If these people keep ASSuming things maybe you could help a little by telling them.
Thank you for your time.
I just never thought that after people had read the archives of things I had written. The explanations I had made, the questions I had answered that I would be ambushed like this.
Ralph
Ralph, no one is ambushing you and no one is assuming anything other than based on what you're telling us and what is on the website. You corrected me when I said $130 by stating the price was $120. Now you say it's $130? Further, your website asks a buyer to select his state of residence for the purposes of collecting sales tax. See the problem? So I hope you'll pardon those of us who are "assuming" things.
When I said the parts could be churned out I was referring to them being produced by machine. If you're making them by hand it's no wonder you need to increase the price. I didn't realize you were still handcrafting these things in your basement after 30 odd years. It's not the way most people would be doing it.
As for using other than copper no, I haven't done any "testing". However I have a considerable background in materials engineering/machine design and since what you're doing isn't rocket science I've no doubt there is a better choice than copper. I'm not sure about Texas but where I'm from it's no longer the Bronze Age.
Anyway, I mean no harm. I'm merely suggesting you be clearer on your website and in posts. Doing so, along with answering inquiries from perspective customers, would go a long way in keeping your business healthy.
When I said the parts could be churned out I was referring to them being produced by machine. If you're making them by hand it's no wonder you need to increase the price. I didn't realize you were still handcrafting these things in your basement after 30 odd years. It's not the way most people would be doing it.
As for using other than copper no, I haven't done any "testing". However I have a considerable background in materials engineering/machine design and since what you're doing isn't rocket science I've no doubt there is a better choice than copper. I'm not sure about Texas but where I'm from it's no longer the Bronze Age.
Anyway, I mean no harm. I'm merely suggesting you be clearer on your website and in posts. Doing so, along with answering inquiries from perspective customers, would go a long way in keeping your business healthy.
Just to clarify, the MG-30 is $130, so disregard the $120 you posted earlier.
Second, is it possbile to pick up the parts?
Second, is it possbile to pick up the parts?
What Chernobylite said...
While I don't have an educated background in Materials Science, I am a DIY sort of Jeeper and along with that comes the ability to fabricate just about anything that might be needed for a project, short of an engine block. I have a very high mechanical aptitude, and let's be honest here-- we're dealing with hot motor oil-- it's not like it's sulphuric acid. Therefore, as Cherno said-- it's not like it's rocket science.
As you would say-- for you to ASSume that people are some sort of idiot that can't figure out how to adapt this motorguard air filter to oil use doesn't speak well for you. I can't speak for everyone, but I for one am not a complete idiot. Parts are missing.
While I don't have an educated background in Materials Science, I am a DIY sort of Jeeper and along with that comes the ability to fabricate just about anything that might be needed for a project, short of an engine block. I have a very high mechanical aptitude, and let's be honest here-- we're dealing with hot motor oil-- it's not like it's sulphuric acid. Therefore, as Cherno said-- it's not like it's rocket science.
As you would say-- for you to ASSume that people are some sort of idiot that can't figure out how to adapt this motorguard air filter to oil use doesn't speak well for you. I can't speak for everyone, but I for one am not a complete idiot. Parts are missing.
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When you add it all up ..what have you saved? Essentially Ralph is providing a "value added" service. Sure you may be able to do what he did ..but suppose you're not? Suppose you go through three prototypes of the mods before you get it just right? Like just one too many trips to Home Depot??
For what? $20
I've been all over bypass filtration. You can get spin-on units from Donaldson. You can get them from NAPA/WIX. They all offer them. They aren't as good as TP ..but will probably last longer in service. So, you buy the filter head (the threads aren't just any old 3/4-16) ..and then you find a filter that has limited distribution (READ $$$ either in mark up or S&H - or both) and you're looking at about $80-90 in costs before you even plumb the thing (NAPA systems are cheaper - but the filters are not as good).
I've tried every which way around this road block on costs and there are very few ways around it unless you stumble across certain materials at scrap value. I have a Pall canister filter housing that surely went for well over a grand for all the hardware that came with it. I got it for scrap value at my closing plant ..so I get to use cheap DOE cotton wound filters from a bunch of suppliers. Otherwise, it was going to cost $$$ to install one of its size.
So, all in all, the MG30 is a pretty good value ..even at the increased price schedule. If I was into TP filters ..I would buy one. Actually I'd install my vintage Frantz that has never been used that I have laying around somewhere.
For what? $20
I've been all over bypass filtration. You can get spin-on units from Donaldson. You can get them from NAPA/WIX. They all offer them. They aren't as good as TP ..but will probably last longer in service. So, you buy the filter head (the threads aren't just any old 3/4-16) ..and then you find a filter that has limited distribution (READ $$$ either in mark up or S&H - or both) and you're looking at about $80-90 in costs before you even plumb the thing (NAPA systems are cheaper - but the filters are not as good).
I've tried every which way around this road block on costs and there are very few ways around it unless you stumble across certain materials at scrap value. I have a Pall canister filter housing that surely went for well over a grand for all the hardware that came with it. I got it for scrap value at my closing plant ..so I get to use cheap DOE cotton wound filters from a bunch of suppliers. Otherwise, it was going to cost $$$ to install one of its size.
So, all in all, the MG30 is a pretty good value ..even at the increased price schedule. If I was into TP filters ..I would buy one. Actually I'd install my vintage Frantz that has never been used that I have laying around somewhere.
I get the head for $20 with the proper 5/8-18. I can get the filter for $5.
Or if I must go Motorguard, I buy the air filter variant for $80 through McmasterCarr. I spend a whopping $2 on pipe to support the internal part of the TP roll.
Now, I don't know what kind of math you're doing, but $82+20= $102. A far cry from $130. Nevertheless, I'd have no problem paying the $100 it used to cost. In fact, I had planned to buy 8 of them-- 1 each for engine and transmission, in 4 vehicles I own. But due partially to the 30% price increase and lack of response, I'll just go with the spinon integrated solution I found called the Vortex Filter. $170 gets me a 20 micron absolute stainless screen FF filter and an integrated cotton string-wound bypass filter, all in one canister which screws directly to my factory mount, or any aftermarket mount. As I was going to go with a cleanable FF filter anyway, a little more money than Ralph's offering [and probably less when you consider I don't have to fabricate hoses and buy fittings, unions, and the like] solves two requirements for my filtration setup at once.
As I've said before, I am *sure* Ralph is a nice fellow. I'm just not sure it's worth $50 for him to cut a 4" piece of pipe and maybe replace an o ring or two. I brought this up in another post a while back-- the idea of using the air compressor filter version of the motorguard, and it was mentioned that the motorguard inlet is high and the outlet is low, or something along those lines-- I se now from observing the pics of the installations, this is just not true.
Come to think-- why couldn't you just use a Fram FRM-HPG1 $42 from Summit, with TP in place of the cartridge?
Or if I must go Motorguard, I buy the air filter variant for $80 through McmasterCarr. I spend a whopping $2 on pipe to support the internal part of the TP roll.
Now, I don't know what kind of math you're doing, but $82+20= $102. A far cry from $130. Nevertheless, I'd have no problem paying the $100 it used to cost. In fact, I had planned to buy 8 of them-- 1 each for engine and transmission, in 4 vehicles I own. But due partially to the 30% price increase and lack of response, I'll just go with the spinon integrated solution I found called the Vortex Filter. $170 gets me a 20 micron absolute stainless screen FF filter and an integrated cotton string-wound bypass filter, all in one canister which screws directly to my factory mount, or any aftermarket mount. As I was going to go with a cleanable FF filter anyway, a little more money than Ralph's offering [and probably less when you consider I don't have to fabricate hoses and buy fittings, unions, and the like] solves two requirements for my filtration setup at once.
As I've said before, I am *sure* Ralph is a nice fellow. I'm just not sure it's worth $50 for him to cut a 4" piece of pipe and maybe replace an o ring or two. I brought this up in another post a while back-- the idea of using the air compressor filter version of the motorguard, and it was mentioned that the motorguard inlet is high and the outlet is low, or something along those lines-- I se now from observing the pics of the installations, this is just not true.
Come to think-- why couldn't you just use a Fram FRM-HPG1 $42 from Summit, with TP in place of the cartridge?
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Well, I would ask you then ..what would you produce sellable MG30's to everyone else for? Will you get it shipped in for $82+ S&H and do the mod and sell it for $100? How about just $10 more and ship it to me? Sounds like a bargain to me.
I think Ralph has effectively explained his email difficulties/anomalies.
I'd look at the long term costs of your cotton wound proprietary elements there. I love cotton wound filters. I have the good fortune of being about to use the very common 20"X2" DOE filters that are available everywhere and can be had very cheaply. Others like OilGuard and whatnot all make them of ba$tard sizes and you have to return to the vendor for more (@ $$$). I'll agree with the saving space. Same idea as a Trasco.
I think if you attempt to change a cartridge filter with TP you're going to have to do something like Ralph does with the MG. That is, I'm pretty sure that the Fram flows outside to inside ...while tp has to go from top to bottom without leakage to the interior. But hey, if you can deliver one for $50-$55 ...become a sponsor and maybe you can make some money at it
No wait ...I bet that Jeg's or whomever wants to charge S&H on top of that (sometimes not) ..and you would have to get something for S&H ..and then for your mods to it (your time is worth somthing, I guess) ....how about $62 delivered??
I get the head for $20 with the proper 5/8-18. I can get the filter for $5. Sure, if 10um nominal is all you desire. They are available at any NAPA or where ever WIX are sold ..for just about the cost you quote. If you want to step down to 5um nominal ..then you ante up a little more for the mount ..and a whole lot more for the replacement elements. It's all in the specialty catalog on the WIX site and convertable to NAPA part numbers.
I think Ralph has effectively explained his email difficulties/anomalies.
I'd look at the long term costs of your cotton wound proprietary elements there. I love cotton wound filters. I have the good fortune of being about to use the very common 20"X2" DOE filters that are available everywhere and can be had very cheaply. Others like OilGuard and whatnot all make them of ba$tard sizes and you have to return to the vendor for more (@ $$$). I'll agree with the saving space. Same idea as a Trasco.
I think if you attempt to change a cartridge filter with TP you're going to have to do something like Ralph does with the MG. That is, I'm pretty sure that the Fram flows outside to inside ...while tp has to go from top to bottom without leakage to the interior. But hey, if you can deliver one for $50-$55 ...become a sponsor and maybe you can make some money at it
I get the head for $20 with the proper 5/8-18. I can get the filter for $5. Sure, if 10um nominal is all you desire. They are available at any NAPA or where ever WIX are sold ..for just about the cost you quote. If you want to step down to 5um nominal ..then you ante up a little more for the mount ..and a whole lot more for the replacement elements. It's all in the specialty catalog on the WIX site and convertable to NAPA part numbers.
MG-30s and MG-60s are submicronic bypass filters.
Ralph
Ralph
Is pick up available Ralph? I am currently in Japan, and would pay from here, but am thinking about picking it up while riding through there.
Hi Shaman,
Yes, that is the price. The best thing before coming to pick up the parts is to call to make sure I'm here tollfree 866-263-2929 or 940-458-4536. Usually our business is done on the Internet thru our website and email.
Ralph
Yes, that is the price. The best thing before coming to pick up the parts is to call to make sure I'm here tollfree 866-263-2929 or 940-458-4536. Usually our business is done on the Internet thru our website and email.
Ralph
Thanks Ralph. I tried searching the address you have on the website, through google earth and yahoo maps, and could find your address. I know you are in Sanger, been there before, dropped a piston there actually, but I was wondering if the address on the website is correct.
Gary, I (or you) can buy all the compressed air version M-30s I want for $48 a pop. And that's retail, not from MotorGuard. I wish Ralph well but $82 is a lot of "value added" services. And modding them for oil use is far from rocket science.
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Where are you getting them for that price? McMaster Carr has them for $8X.00. Now if you've got a source for them at half price, then turn Ralph on to it and then he can offer value added for no cost at all ...or produce them yourself at a healthy profit ...a very healthy profit.
No, it's not rocket science. Neither is most plumbing or electrical work ..nor auto mechanics if you've got the facilities/tools and the desire to do the work (can read and integrate a manual..etc.). This assumes that you are capable and desirous of doing the work. Some people are thinkers/designers (as in conceptual configurations) and not technicians. I can show you a ton of stuff on the market that is simply "packaged" for the convenience of just that type of customer. It's everything from frozen fish sticks to heavy bumpers on off road vehicles.
Submicronic Filters
Page 868 of McMaster Carr (Ralph posted this about a year back).
9841K92
Remove contaminates as small as .01 micron from compressed air and vacuum lines. Filters have a high wet-strength element that consists of a roll of cellulose wound on a polyethylene core. Housing is die cast aluminum coated with epoxy for corrosion resistance. Max. pressure is 125 psi. Max. temp. is 175° F. Inlet and outlet connections are NPT female. 9841K91 includes mounting bracket. Filters do not have a drain.
Replacement
Pipe Max. scfm O'all Size,
Units
Filter Elements
Size @ 100 psi Ht. x Wd. Each Each
1/4" 60 7" x 5"
9841K91 $80.30
9841K93 $6.72
1/2" 110 7" x 5"
9841K92 80.30
9841K93 6.72
No, it's not rocket science. Neither is most plumbing or electrical work ..nor auto mechanics if you've got the facilities/tools and the desire to do the work (can read and integrate a manual..etc.). This assumes that you are capable and desirous of doing the work. Some people are thinkers/designers (as in conceptual configurations) and not technicians. I can show you a ton of stuff on the market that is simply "packaged" for the convenience of just that type of customer. It's everything from frozen fish sticks to heavy bumpers on off road vehicles.
Submicronic Filters
Page 868 of McMaster Carr (Ralph posted this about a year back).
9841K92
Remove contaminates as small as .01 micron from compressed air and vacuum lines. Filters have a high wet-strength element that consists of a roll of cellulose wound on a polyethylene core. Housing is die cast aluminum coated with epoxy for corrosion resistance. Max. pressure is 125 psi. Max. temp. is 175° F. Inlet and outlet connections are NPT female. 9841K91 includes mounting bracket. Filters do not have a drain.
Replacement
Pipe Max. scfm O'all Size,
Units
Filter Elements
Size @ 100 psi Ht. x Wd. Each Each
1/4" 60 7" x 5"
9841K91 $80.30
9841K93 $6.72
1/2" 110 7" x 5"
9841K92 80.30
9841K93 6.72
Gary, I agree that there are people who need "packaged" items, if for nothing more than a lack of technical skills. Or maybe simply for the convienence. But I'd think the vast majority of types who come to a site like this one are more than capable of converting an M-30 to oil. I could be wrong though.
That said I'm going to hold off on using one. PT filters and Ralph's hype aside the more I research TP filters the less I'm convinced they're all they're cracked up to be. They're beginning to look more like smoke and mirrors and less like valid science as time goes on. Besides, the idea that the pinnacle of oil filtration was attained in the 30s and 40s is a little tough to swallow.
As for cheap M-30s they're available from many sources other than McMaster, who from what I've seen is the most expensive out there. Others are around $60 and I was able to come up that $48 price with only a few minutes of creative searching. Try it yourself. By dint of reading this you must be connected to the greatest source of information ever known. It can be so much more than a global pornography network you know
That said I'm going to hold off on using one. PT filters and Ralph's hype aside the more I research TP filters the less I'm convinced they're all they're cracked up to be. They're beginning to look more like smoke and mirrors and less like valid science as time goes on. Besides, the idea that the pinnacle of oil filtration was attained in the 30s and 40s is a little tough to swallow.
As for cheap M-30s they're available from many sources other than McMaster, who from what I've seen is the most expensive out there. Others are around $60 and I was able to come up that $48 price with only a few minutes of creative searching. Try it yourself. By dint of reading this you must be connected to the greatest source of information ever known. It can be so much more than a global pornography network you know
I purchased two units (reg. and ATF model) from Ralph in August. I have not installed them yet. I'm getting closer as the weather is finally nice. Now I'm having to deal with it getting dark too early. Anyway, I got them at the $100.00 price. Reasonable IMO. If all went well with the first install, I was going to do the same on another car. However, not at $130.00 a pop. yikes. I too was able to find the $48.03 price easily.
So, I guess it is either "play" to get the M30 modified on my own or try a Franz purchase on E-bay. I think the market will quickly show that $130.00 for the M30 bypass is a little steep. Just my opinion.
So, I guess it is either "play" to get the M30 modified on my own or try a Franz purchase on E-bay. I think the market will quickly show that $130.00 for the M30 bypass is a little steep. Just my opinion.
FWIW, I went the DIY mod route myself on the 1st four Motorguards I installed. It was a PITA to find the right size stock to seal on the bottom. Never actually did. Ralph ended up sending me old nylacores to get that side going. I ended up welding big washers on home made top side cores to ensure they stayed put when reassembled. It ended up being a un-expected major undertaking by the time I was through. BTW, I restore old cars for a hobby (two currently in process) and do all my own mechanical/maintenance work. So for me to say that the conversion is a non-trivial undertaking is no overstatement.
I ended up buying my fifth Motoguard from Ralph, because it was worth it to me. I can honestly say after investing ALOT of time and money in the Motoguard area, Ralphs's product is a great value. I think I saved about $30 a pop on the first four, but in the end it wasn't worth it. I don't know how many trips to the hardware store, etc. Ralph's pieces are machined to the exact tolerance to fit and work right. Go ahead and try it yourself. You'll see...
I ended up buying my fifth Motoguard from Ralph, because it was worth it to me. I can honestly say after investing ALOT of time and money in the Motoguard area, Ralphs's product is a great value. I think I saved about $30 a pop on the first four, but in the end it wasn't worth it. I don't know how many trips to the hardware store, etc. Ralph's pieces are machined to the exact tolerance to fit and work right. Go ahead and try it yourself. You'll see...
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There is no disputing tp as a filter media in terms of performance. This isn't myth or smoke and mirrors. The only drawback to tp is it's longevity in comparison to other forms of bypass filtration. TP shined when you had 1500-2000 manufacturer recommended OCI's. This has somewhat been altered by the longevity of the contemporary oils. Engines have been cleaned up substantially and oils have improved radically. Where 50-60k was a typical "first owner" life cycle of a 60's car ..is now a 100k or more ownership vehicle.
I don't use tp (or PT) filtration. It's not that it's faulty, it just doesn't fit my fancy for my frequent flyer vehicles. I'd be changing tp 6 times a year ..while my service interval is only twice a year.
Filtration has one nut that is impossible to crack. Size does matter. There is a direct correlation between size, holding capacity, and density (fine filtration). You can't get around it ..with anything except maybe a centrifuge ..which is impractical for just about anyone outside of over the road trucking. I have a 20" cotton wound filter that fits in my Caravan. I had custom 3.5" 1um elements spun for it. It would probably last over 15k. I had to buy a case of the filters ..but the individual cost was about $8-$9 each. Sounds great until you find out that only about .1% of the motoring public can fit a 25"X5" cylinder in their engine bay. Let alone that the canister is about $200 in steel ..and about $450 in the stainless that I have. You could change tp for a decade and not cover the costs nor match the filtration.
So we always have to compromise. You can get fine filtration in a small package (even spin-on) ..but with a very short life. There are tons of hydraulic filters that have absolute ratings of between 1-3um ..but in a combustion lubrication environment, they would be loaded in no time ..and they're expensive. Cotton wound are great. They can be had in fine um ratings ..but you're (again) limited in lifespan by the space afforded for the installaton. You can go Amsoil ..which gives you a decent level of fine filtration with a decent longevity ..and it comes in a variety of sizes that can fit most vehicles.
It basically breaks down to you either pay a lot in terms of replacement media ..or you frequently change cheap media (tp). Any other form of submicronic filtration is prohibitively expensive.
"BTW, I restore old cars for a hobby (two currently in process) and do all my own mechanical/maintenance work. So for me to say that the conversion is a non-trivial undertaking is no overstatement."
No offense but the first part of that statment is in no way indicative of possessing the skill needed to do a particular task. What is indicative is the second part ie; the trouble you had making it work.
"Go ahead and try it yourself. You'll see"
It was a piece of cake. No trips to the hardware store, no welding (not that I couldn't, I have a square-wave GTAW inverter in my home shop), nothing. 30 minutes on my lathe and it was a done deal. No copper involved either. Total cost including new M-30: $58.
No offense but the first part of that statment is in no way indicative of possessing the skill needed to do a particular task. What is indicative is the second part ie; the trouble you had making it work.
"Go ahead and try it yourself. You'll see"
It was a piece of cake. No trips to the hardware store, no welding (not that I couldn't, I have a square-wave GTAW inverter in my home shop), nothing. 30 minutes on my lathe and it was a done deal. No copper involved either. Total cost including new M-30: $58.
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You should offer Ralph a deal and sell him modified MG30's for $90. For that matter, offer them to everyone for that price. $32/.5hours. $64/hr is close to a semi-pro/tradesman billable rate (currently $75-$95/hour). Now, you can account for your lathe ..but you already have that ..but we'll throw in a few bucks for it's acquisition/eventual replacement/operating cost ..we can take a few bucks toward the skill involved to be able to use the lathe ..just a couple (the learning curve that surely ruined some things in your history)..thrown there.
Essentially I'm asking ...what would make it worth your while to produce these modified units and bring them to market? Suppose you were incapable, at some point, of doing this all yourself and had to sub out the machine work (time/ volume of orders, etc.)? How would you integrate inventory costs in terms of cash outlay into the price (ROI)?? Technical support for various applications included in the price??
I mean ..there's a guy down the road that will refinish my porcelain vintage sink. It takes him only a couple of hours with his techniques and skills ..and only costs him about $30 of materials ..yet he gets $200 for the process.
I'm not doing this in any defense of Ralph and his bussiness practices/policies. I'm trying to figure out how your skill and knowledge is instantaniously trasferred to the entire rolling population and how they are to take advantage of it in costs savings in a niche market. This isn't a case of someone taking a $0.50 washer and managing to make it proprietary and selling it for $9.95 just due lack of knowledge that it's a $0.50 washer.
Now how much do you want for the modified piece? How many can you produce a week ..and how much are you going to charge for it? Do you have the interest to do this as a business oportunity? That is, is it worth your time?
Take the Amsoil bypass filters. I think that they offer a reasonable value for the price. The problem is, they use a Cummins thread (1-16). This isn't even a common industrial thread (I did finally, with the help of a member find a 1-16 die) and you HAVE to buy one of their mounts. There is a cheap one ..but it's limited in it's use. They make a proprietary threaded insert that is 1-16 on one end ..and 3/4-16 on the other. When I asked the member, who was fully capable of making it, what he would want to produce them ..it ended up making the Amsoil expensive mount comparable in costs. He already had the CNC machine paid for. He already had access to the thicker walled stock ..yet could not get down to a $10-$20 figure to make it work in his "realm of economic sense". That is, there was nothing worthwhile in it for him
Please read this but read this first
[ November 03, 2005, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Essentially I'm asking ...what would make it worth your while to produce these modified units and bring them to market? Suppose you were incapable, at some point, of doing this all yourself and had to sub out the machine work (time/ volume of orders, etc.)? How would you integrate inventory costs in terms of cash outlay into the price (ROI)?? Technical support for various applications included in the price??
I mean ..there's a guy down the road that will refinish my porcelain vintage sink. It takes him only a couple of hours with his techniques and skills ..and only costs him about $30 of materials ..yet he gets $200 for the process.
I'm not doing this in any defense of Ralph and his bussiness practices/policies. I'm trying to figure out how your skill and knowledge is instantaniously trasferred to the entire rolling population and how they are to take advantage of it in costs savings in a niche market. This isn't a case of someone taking a $0.50 washer and managing to make it proprietary and selling it for $9.95 just due lack of knowledge that it's a $0.50 washer.
Now how much do you want for the modified piece? How many can you produce a week ..and how much are you going to charge for it? Do you have the interest to do this as a business oportunity? That is, is it worth your time?
Take the Amsoil bypass filters. I think that they offer a reasonable value for the price. The problem is, they use a Cummins thread (1-16). This isn't even a common industrial thread (I did finally, with the help of a member find a 1-16 die) and you HAVE to buy one of their mounts. There is a cheap one ..but it's limited in it's use. They make a proprietary threaded insert that is 1-16 on one end ..and 3/4-16 on the other. When I asked the member, who was fully capable of making it, what he would want to produce them ..it ended up making the Amsoil expensive mount comparable in costs. He already had the CNC machine paid for. He already had access to the thicker walled stock ..yet could not get down to a $10-$20 figure to make it work in his "realm of economic sense". That is, there was nothing worthwhile in it for him
[ November 03, 2005, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
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