Blotter Test

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I usually take a drop off the dipstick when the oil is hot. The card then sits supported at the ends on raised flat surface, so the oil can spread out naturally. On a thickish card, this will take at least 8 hours - up to 24 hours. Once the oil has soaked in, I tape the card to a window to back light it and shoot away with my digital camera.

Now if I could only interpret what it all means.
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Dave

[ December 27, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: DavoNF ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by DavoNF:
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Now if I could only interpret what it all means.
grin.gif


Dave


Same with the OUA's. I agree. We all are learning.
If I'm wrong, I am, just my guess,
and what I have been going on and seen on OUA's, but I may have wrong thinking here:

If it is not solid, much better off... If there are chunks, not too good. The cleaner the outside ring, the better. The Darker the inside ring, the worse. The more the center ring closes and or expands, the worse.
Ideal IMO is when you have good miles, the ring darkens but not solid, and you don't see "Fans or RAYS" all over the place, and there is a very clean even if thin, outer ring and a little dirtier next, and the filth in the center area, even with the exception of maybe a definate ring.
You will see here, different colors, ie blackish, brownish maybe greenish, yellowish, clearish, kinda like in a rainbow with one end in the center and another out... and if I place it flat without moving it, the circle is perfect, but usually I carry it in my hands awhile.
 
Ok, here are two I've done recently, which will give some idea of what we are talking about.

Pic1. From my 78 Suzuki LJ81 ute.
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Pic2. From Ford V8 Windsor engine
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thanks to RavenTai
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[ December 27, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: DavoNF ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Robbie Alexander:
what do you mean>? exactly how>???.........
If the Amsoil fluid will help as per som one else with a Toyota, I'm game.

But it has been MY experience with the PS fluid... that it still looks fair and somewhat clean when I call it DIRTY and drain (usually about 2 years 100-140K, maybe too long)


The PS and ATX are not exposed to combustion. So any darkening of them is coming from thermo break down. My "93 had over 125K on it when I got it. The PS fluid was a black as coffee. I flushed with Mobil One ATX fluid, drove for a week and it was a black as it was originally. I then drained down the reservoir and refilled with WalMart ATX fluid. Kept doing this until it stayed clean and red, then flushing with the Mobil One again. This has stayed clean for 3 years now.

As far as the ATX tranny fluid goes, on my '97 SHO if I use dino ATX fluid it is turning dark at 15k, with synthetic it will go 30k. This is what I look for when I put a drop on a white napkin. Just the darkness of it compared to new fluid. There really is no great amount of debris in the fluids, just the amount of darkening from oxidation..
 
I did both a blotter and a water drop test on the 10,000 mile Schaeffer's 15w-40 analysis from my VW TDI engine submitted to this forum 11/12/03.

Sorry no pictures was just tinkering.

The analysis showed fuel soot at 47, Ox at 22% and Nox at 35%.

The blotter test showed a faint ring at the outer edge of the oil and a very faint inner ring. I had to hold it up to a light to see the inner ring at all. Nothing even approaching the pictures above.


And the diameter of the blot was very similiar to the virgin comparison. Though I can't say how much oil was used for each.

The water drop test showed a significantly larger ,50%, drop when compared to virgin.

At the next analysis I will be better document the blotter and water drop tests.
 
quote:

Originally posted by DavoNF:
Ok, here are two I've done recently, which will give some idea of what we are talking about.
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Cant quite tell from the top, but it loks from here too solid in the center.... but yeah how the outer ring is lighter... it would be more idel like the top photo on the second- IMO, no the thing is, Is IT UN-even or did you hold it in your have or uneven surface after starting, because it needs to form a perfect circle... anything that starts to go out of perfect, Is where I have seen the oil degraded... no If you moved it and know you say the oil go off of wher you placed it, then okay...
All in all, I usually dont see my rings that dark, they are lighter but are like this photo more often... aslo when I get good runs, the outer ring stays clearish!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Neil Womack:
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The water drop test showed a significantly larger ,50%, drop when compared to virgin.

At the next analysis I will be better document the blotter and water drop tests.


with the water, my understanding is that as long as it BEADS. I do the Blotter because of less mess. and To me it;s easier and you can keep it and also you can compare to others if you want to keep one. I use to have a bag full of them, no longer.
Now, I think the blotter is subjective in a way, but ONCE you learn YOUR truck and oil, YOU WILL KNOW if something is different. IMO, it's just a tool to be used along with the UOA's
 
I posted those pictures so everybody would know what we are talking about, but they are not good examples, as both oils from both vehicles had a dose of molybdenum di-sulphide additive, which really darkens the oil.

If you look closely at the bottom one, you will see the "rays" emanating from the central corona, which is typical of water contamination.

Robbie's suggestion of a blotter test photo with a UOA is a good one.


Dave
 
quote:

Originally posted by DavoNF:
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Robbie's suggestion of a blotter test photo with a UOA is a good one.
Dave


If I had a way of posting them, I would have included one on every one of mine. As I think it is an AID in doing UOA's.

It is IMO a way the average JOE can see from among the group here, without spending a lot of $$$, what "It" is suppose to look like when the UOA's look great / average / fair / poor... with Water issues/ fuel/ excessive wear/ glycol/ whatever... If we were able to see hundreds of these with every UOA, then maybe we don't HAVE to wait to see the REPORT before we DECIDE to do a drain. Sometimes like in my case, we have to learn about these things through the SCHOOL of HARD KNOCKS.
 
I think I am going to try this. As I just posted on the one oil filter thread, 40 micron particles are about the same as 400 grit sandpaper.
 
quote:

Originally posted by labman:
I think I am going to try this. As I just posted on the one oil filter thread, 40 micron particles are about the same as 400 grit sandpaper.

I think in time, if there were more people here posting pics, that seeing enough good pics and bad pics, and the resons why they were bad (ie history) that a lot more people will feel better about doing an extended drain when the time presents itself.
By no means do I think this is fool proof, and there can be a lot of subjective decisions, but when you get use to SEEing how YOUR sample looks on paper, the more willing, at least for me, I am to push the oil... I.e. I have never seen the oil changing to mean a lie. On the other hand, when one changed brands, and adds different oil to their sump, the new brew's colors and time and so on, do change.
Best thing, find a good brew and stick with it if you are doing UOA's only once and awhile, and use this as the back-up.
It's saved me several times, and the UOA's confirmed it, and a lab tech pin pointed the problem... All for a little time, and a few $$$ for a lab test.
 
This is a good topic . I have been dabbling in this blotter stuff thanks to Paul .

It's cheap fun .

Paul , do you have any updates for us like what happens to the dispersancy when additives are used in the oil or blending different brand oils vs a known series of blotters using one formulated oil ?
 
Mostly what is apparent is that the blotters were very light with 5w30 Durablend in the Aerostar, darkened up quite a bit with the switch to Maxlife 10w30, and then are getting darker a whole lot faster yet with the Synpower 10w30 I am currently running (there is a little redline too--maybe 6 oz).

The pickup truck blotters started on Maxlife. When I put a quart Redline at the end of an OCI for 500 miles it did not get significantly darker. But the very next OCI was Durablend 15w40 SJ and they darkened up very quick. Was it followup to the Redline? Blotters after that were Auto Rx treatment and rinse cycles. Can't remember the exact progression, but some are pretty dirty.

Not sure what it all means. Assume the Maxlife cleans better than Durablend and the Redline does some cleaning too.
 
Cool! you're doing "thin film chromatography", or "thin layer chromatography" depends on where you went to school I guess...
Try hanging vertical strips that are suspended with the end dipped in the oil (like a small tuna/sardine can, when it runs up the strips the various componants will separate into distinct bars...it makes it easy to compare with each sample. Cool, good idea!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
Is there anything special about this chromatograph paper? I have been toying with this method on business cards. It's interesting.

Yeah, the ONE DROP oil blots look weird. I never get a hard line around the outside, only around the inner circle.

Backlighting is a good way to view them though.
 
Yeah, On business cards I only have one seperation ring. None have been run remotely near dirty according to some of the samples I have seen here.
 
I have probably 8 or 10 sets of blotters in pdf files (one per set; some while running Auto Rx too) and a couple have oil analysis data too. If anybody has time to post them viewable on this thread, I will send them. Just PM me with an email address. It might help in the interpretation.
 
Below are some links, I'll guess most are familiar to those doing blotter tests. The 'patch test' also looks interesting. Cheap 10x eyepieces can be had from broken binoculars, using the 25mm or so eyepieces. May need to perhaps file down the end of the eyepiece to create more working distance. A 10x Hastings triplet is perhaps the handiest eyepiece to use in the field.

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=348&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

http://www.uscg.mil/systems/gse/P2OA.2-1-4.htm

http://www.noria.com/secure/product_detail.asp?catalogid=25

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=648&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis
 
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