Eco Diesel failure

Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
That's what I heard. Common internal failures. Keep your mouth shut about the oil unless they ask, but if they ordered an engine no questions asked, then that's also a clue that this isn't a fluke.



I am hoping the warranty will be honored.
However they did ask for him to go back to the shop & supply them with receipts from oil changes.

I think they indicate customer supplied oil.

If an oil jug has a "diesel" approval on the label it should be suitable for any diesel engine, or does a person really need to be sure it has the correct API rating as well?

I am sure the biggest cause of the engines being on back order is due to the Covid 19 outbreaks, & manufacturers, & suppliers running at reduced capacity, if at all.

I haven't seen any recent Oil analysis reports from others who are using this engine. I have been sending frequent oil samples in for analysis on my 2018 F150 3.5 Ecoboost to monitor the fuel dilution issues, & now regretting not pulling a sample from my fathers truck to see how it was doing.
 
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i will stick to my lower tech port injected nissan frontier SV, port injected V-6 + 6 spd manual tranny!! as noted diesels are best used as intended on longer runs + many buyers of big pickups diesel or not don't really need them, but if you got the $$$$$ to throw away good for you, DON't COMPLAIN!!!!
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD

-- The Bosch HPFP pumps have failed due to ULSD fuel (not unique to Ford, Bosch is the problem here).
-- The DPF/SCR/DEF systems have had lots of issues from early plugging of the DPF, to the myriad of SCR sensors that have failed, to the issues with the DEF system often requiring a complete replacement.
-- The system can be caught in a "continuous regen" if only driving in stop and go traffic sending fuel mileage into the toilet.
-- The EGR coolers typically plug or leak and this is exacerbated by stop and go driving.

While OTR and other heavy duty machinery may keep diesels alive, for passenger cars and light trucks, I opine they will go the way of the dodo much sooner than later.




The Bosch pumps/injection systems were marketed by the engine suppliers and OEMs as the best thing since sliced bread - and the design was also used by the Japanese for their pumps as well?

Also, doesn't Bosch or Conti supply a majority of the SCR control and urea injection systems out there? Cummins was proud to boast they supply their own SCR from the catalyst and up.

And are heavy duty diesels seeing the same SCR issues as light-duty diesels? Detroit Diesel did introduce EGR on their S50/S60 engines and when the local transit agencies here all switched over to the Cummins M11 from the Detroit S50/6V-92 in the 1990s, there was significantly less black exhaust from them.
 
ISL Cummins still has plenty of issues with SCR/DPF system more so with the def injection. The ISX Cummins has been pretty good other than the 7th injector post turbo for regeneration clogging from spot.

The early EGR systems on the Detroit's aren't that bad. Some delta pressure sensor issues and a valve here and there but it bad.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
The Japanese don't have any sort of monopoly on quality diesel engines.


At least not for pickup truck or "light duty truck" applications. For medium duty trucks, Isuzu/Hino/Mitsu Fuso do sell their diesel engines as an option. The Japanese do rule in small marine diesels as well as small genset/compressor engines where it's common to see a Yanmar/Kubota/Daihatsu engine for those.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi
With the gas prices you lads pay I would not even consider an ecodiesel. Having said that I believe that Fiat have even managed to screw the Hemi engine by redesign of the camshaft position. I think that only Fiat could have done that
smile.gif


Fiat are to merge with Peugeot. What could possibly go wrong?


FIAT hasn't made any changes to the HEMI. The location of the cam in the current HEMI engine hasn't changed.


Hi
My apologies. You are correct. I totally misunderstood an article I read about the hemi camshaft/lifter issues. Thanks for correcting the post.
 
Originally Posted by javacontour
I was/am looking at this for down the road in 4-5 years when my wife retires and she wants to go camping.

Of course, we'll rent an RV first and see if she's still up to it after going with a motor home for a week.

If she is, then we can look at a truck and trailer. I was thinking of the Eco-Diesel only because it seems the Ram is the nicest to drive around when you are NOT doing truck things as well as being decent at doing truck things. A turbo engine for those times we might drive at higher elevations appeals to me.

But who knows, in 5 years, the F150 might have the same car-like ride AND offer, what seems to be, a reasonably reliable Ecoboost engine, giving the turbo advantages without all the disadvantages that come with modern diesel powered vehicles.

Or I can just make sure we get a trailer that we can tow with my '99 Grand Marquis and call it a day
smile.gif


Originally Posted by e30m3pilot
Originally Posted by javacontour
This is sad. I wanted to like the Eco-Diesel. The 2020 engine is supposed to be improved. I am not in the market any time soon, so I have time to watch how things turn out.


Same here! I was in powertrain at Chrysler when the first engine was coming out and it had issues for sure. Bean counters got in there too much. I no longer work there but I still have good friends and should ask how the new one is handling testing/customer use. I really want that interior and 1000mi range! 40k more miles on my 300S and it's time to start looking...



I'm set on a trailer we can tow with my 83 Caprice. Lol. Unfortunately I'm limited by the class 2 hitch on it. I need to find a used hitch for my 2005 Silverado, although I'd rather not put the miles on it, since it's my work vehicle I get paid mileage to drive and it's almost at 200k miles.

If I really needed to tow I'd get a 6.0L gas gm 3/4 ton truck. For what I carry the 4.8 in my half ton gets the job done and requires almost no maintenance compared to a diesel.
 
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Edy
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I service a friend's loaded 2015(?) Jeep GC with the EcoDiesel; it has about 85K.
I use Rotella T 5w40 regularly at 10K OCIs. I suggested we shorten the OCIs to 8K or less.
There have been warranty recalls, but so far so good. It was expensive.

That engine likes heavy oil, and heavy oil is band aid. Anything with robust HTHS should work. This new Motul X-Clean Gen2 5W40 looks like good candidate also.


Hi Edy
May I have your opinion of the following Motul oils suitability for the Ecodiesel please? It looks good to a layman like me. Interesting that it has worse pour point than the x-clean generation 2 even though it is Ester based. No ash content given either.

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/motul/MotulSport5W-40GB.pdf

Many thanks.

To me looks really strong. That HTHS is i category of really good 5W50 oils. What is the price?
 
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Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD

-- The Bosch HPFP pumps have failed due to ULSD fuel (not unique to Ford, Bosch is the problem here).
-- The DPF/SCR/DEF systems have had lots of issues from early plugging of the DPF, to the myriad of SCR sensors that have failed, to the issues with the DEF system often requiring a complete replacement.
-- The system can be caught in a "continuous regen" if only driving in stop and go traffic sending fuel mileage into the toilet.
-- The EGR coolers typically plug or leak and this is exacerbated by stop and go driving.

While OTR and other heavy duty machinery may keep diesels alive, for passenger cars and light trucks, I opine they will go the way of the dodo much sooner than later.




The Bosch pumps/injection systems were marketed by the engine suppliers and OEMs as the best thing since sliced bread - and the design was also used by the Japanese for their pumps as well?

Also, doesn't Bosch or Conti supply a majority of the SCR control and urea injection systems out there? Cummins was proud to boast they supply their own SCR from the catalyst and up.

And are heavy duty diesels seeing the same SCR issues as light-duty diesels? Detroit Diesel did introduce EGR on their S50/S60 engines and when the local transit agencies here all switched over to the Cummins M11 from the Detroit S50/6V-92 in the 1990s, there was significantly less black exhaust from them.

When Toyota ventured into competitive diesel market in Europe, they hit the wall so hard with their D-4D engines that they listed acceptable gas stations in certain countries bcs. pumps would fail if diesel was just bit out of apparently laboratory requirement. That is at time when VW diesels could run on power station oil for cooling without any problems.
 
Hi Edy
It is £50 for 5 litres. That is only £12 more than 5 litres of 8100 x-cess 5w-40.

Is it strange that it has no approvals, not even a rating such as A3/B4? Or is that expected with a 'boutique' oil such as this?

Seems just the ticket for a UK ecodiesel.
 
Originally Posted by cdlamb
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
That's what I heard. Common internal failures. Keep your mouth shut about the oil unless they ask, but if they ordered an engine no questions asked, then that's also a clue that this isn't a fluke.



I am hoping the warranty will be honored.
However they did ask for him to go back to the shop & supply them with receipts from oil changes.

I think they indicate customer supplied oil.

If an oil jug has a "diesel" approval on the label it should be suitable for any diesel engine, or does a person really need to be sure it has the correct API rating as well?

I am sure the biggest cause of the engines being on back order is due to the Covid 19 outbreaks, & manufacturers, & suppliers running at reduced capacity, if at all.

I haven't seen any recent Oil analysis reports from others who are using this engine. I have been sending frequent oil samples in for analysis on my 2018 F150 3.5 Ecoboost to monitor the fuel dilution issues, & now regretting not pulling a sample from my fathers truck to see how it was doing.



Fingers crossed!

Originally the engine was spec'd (in the US and Canada) to use a Euro 5w-30 IIRC, but when they starting having bearing issues with it there was a change in programming to prevent lugging and that oil recommendation was switched to a 5w-40 HDEO diesel oil like Delvac or Rotella.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw

When Toyota ventured into competitive diesel market in Europe, they hit the wall so hard with their D-4D engines that they listed acceptable gas stations in certain countries bcs. pumps would fail if diesel was just bit out of apparently laboratory requirement. That is at time when VW diesels could run on power station oil for cooling without any problems.

Probably why they sourced diesel engines from BMW on Euro-spec cars.
 
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by edyvw

When Toyota ventured into competitive diesel market in Europe, they hit the wall so hard with their D-4D engines that they listed acceptable gas stations in certain countries bcs. pumps would fail if diesel was just bit out of apparently laboratory requirement. That is at time when VW diesels could run on power station oil for cooling without any problems.

Probably why they sourced diesel engines from BMW on Euro-spec cars.

The 1.4 D-4D with super sensitive pumps was resolved later. 3.0 D-4D which I own in Europe in land Cruiser had problem for some time, but not to extent like 1.4 ltr. Still, I was always super careful where to pump up. Their really, really bad engine was 2.2 D-4D. That thing could not make 100k km without literally disintegrating. That engine pushed Toyota to cut deal with BMW. I think Opel's 1.6D were more robust in 80's that that Toyota engine.
 
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi Edy
It is £50 for 5 litres. That is only £12 more than 5 litres of 8100 x-cess 5w-40.

Is it strange that it has no approvals, not even a rating such as A3/B4? Or is that expected with a 'boutique' oil such as this?

Seems just the ticket for a UK ecodiesel.


It is aimed at racing engines. Probably issue with after treatment systems like DPF. On second thought you might want to be careful about that. Engine wise, it will be fine, but than DPF might become issue down the road.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by edyvw

When Toyota ventured into competitive diesel market in Europe, they hit the wall so hard with their D-4D engines that they listed acceptable gas stations in certain countries bcs. pumps would fail if diesel was just bit out of apparently laboratory requirement. That is at time when VW diesels could run on power station oil for cooling without any problems.

Probably why they sourced diesel engines from BMW on Euro-spec cars.

The 1.4 D-4D with super sensitive pumps was resolved later. 3.0 D-4D which I own in Europe in land Cruiser had problem for some time, but not to extent like 1.4 ltr. Still, I was always super careful where to pump up. Their really, really bad engine was 2.2 D-4D. That thing could not make 100k km without literally disintegrating. That engine pushed Toyota to cut deal with BMW. I think Opel's 1.6D were more robust in 80's that that Toyota engine.



The 2.2 D-4D and the 3.0 D-4D was a disaster. The 2.4 and 2.5 is pretty ok. If you buy a new toyota van today in EU you get a Citroën with a toyota badge.
 
VM Diesel engines in SUV were not always too highly regarded and even in light duty Landcruisers actually notorious as to be avoided while Toyota's renowned own Diesel engines for Coaster, Landcruiser, Yanmar marine... did very well around the world. The lighter Prado engines from the passenger cars were somewhere inbetween.
It get's confusing in pickups etc. where the different worlds meet. Mercedes e.g. for centuries had neither petrol nor diesel engines in their G-Wagon to rival the "true" Landcruisers' F, FZ, B, H petrol and diesel-engines in any way. GM's 6.2 and 6.5 were only so-so. Isuzu and GM then merged the passenger car and heavy duty heritage really well in the Duramax. But it becomes confusing to throw in everything diesel from Caterpillar sixes to 1.4 D-4D while dealing with badges.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Garbage engine, trade it in for a ford F series diesel. At least Ford can make diesel engines. And use heavy duty engine oil next time.
After the 6.0 disaster and the mess with later diesels the 6.7 looks pretty good, until you have to pay for fixes. Ford is only up to average on a low scale.
The Ford diesel platform still has issues:

-- The Bosch HPFP pumps have failed due to ULSD fuel (not unique to Ford, Bosch is the problem here).
-- The DPF/SCR/DEF systems have had lots of issues from early plugging of the DPF, to the myriad of SCR sensors that have failed, to the issues with the DEF system often requiring a complete replacement.
-- The system can be caught in a "continuous regen" if only driving in stop and go traffic sending fuel mileage into the toilet.
-- The EGR coolers typically plug or leak and this is exacerbated by stop and go driving.
-- The fuel filter system (at least until 2017 when it was redesigned) has a horrible design such that the WIF sensor sits about 1.25" above the bottom of the filter housing and water is pulled into the system long before it goes off (and damage is not covered by the warranty).

While OTR and other heavy duty machinery may keep diesels alive, for passenger cars and light trucks, I opine they will go the way of the dodo much sooner than later.



I am a Bosch authorized common rail technician

The problem with the CP4 exists for sure, but about a decade ago Bosch took four different CP4 designs to four different OE manufacturers for approval, and they all chose the cheapest one.

You are 100% correct in that modern diesels need to be out in the open. City driving is the worst.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by edyvw

When Toyota ventured into competitive diesel market in Europe, they hit the wall so hard with their D-4D engines that they listed acceptable gas stations in certain countries bcs. pumps would fail if diesel was just bit out of apparently laboratory requirement. That is at time when VW diesels could run on power station oil for cooling without any problems.

Probably why they sourced diesel engines from BMW on Euro-spec cars.

The 1.4 D-4D with super sensitive pumps was resolved later. 3.0 D-4D which I own in Europe in land Cruiser had problem for some time, but not to extent like 1.4 ltr. Still, I was always super careful where to pump up. Their really, really bad engine was 2.2 D-4D. That thing could not make 100k km without literally disintegrating. That engine pushed Toyota to cut deal with BMW. I think Opel's 1.6D were more robust in 80's that that Toyota engine.



The 2.2 D-4D and the 3.0 D-4D was a disaster. The 2.4 and 2.5 is pretty ok. If you buy a new toyota van today in EU you get a Citroën with a toyota badge.

3.0 D-4D is disaster compared to pretty much any Euro manufacturer that makes engines in 3ltr category. However, unlike 2.2 and first generation 1.4 they will not completely die. They have numerous issues around EGR, back pressure sensors etc. They are sensitive too on fuel, but so far I did not have an issue with pump.
2.2 D-4D? That thing you can wrap in gold it will still have broken pistons and heads before 100k. I have never seen engine of such low quality in manufacturer like that.
 
Originally Posted by blingo
VM Diesel engines in SUV were not always too highly regarded and even in light duty Landcruisers actually notorious as to be avoided while Toyota's renowned own Diesel engines for Coaster, Landcruiser, Yanmar marine... did very well around the world. The lighter Prado engines from the passenger cars were somewhere inbetween.
It get's confusing in pickups etc. where the different worlds meet. Mercedes e.g. for centuries had neither petrol nor diesel engines in their G-Wagon to rival the "true" Landcruisers' F, FZ, B, H petrol and diesel-engines in any way. GM's 6.2 and 6.5 were only so-so. Isuzu and GM then merged the passenger car and heavy duty heritage really well in the Duramax. But it becomes confusing to throw in everything diesel from Caterpillar sixes to 1.4 D-4D while dealing with badges.

I know SAR teams in Bosnia ditched Hilux with 3.0 D-4D bcs. reliability.
 
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