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Why can't non-ACEA / OEM approved oils be used in European autos? #5460721 06/23/20 12:47 PM
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wemay Online Happy OP
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Leaving warranty discussion out of it and strictly from a technical point of view...

For example,
Some newer Porsche, Audi, VW and BMW recommend SAE 0W-20 or 0W-30 with an HTHS of 2.6 - 3.1. I've read on various boards that (some) owners are uncomfortable with the recommendation and will shorten the OCI to 5K miles versus the 10k.

Why wouldn't an easily attainable, locally sourced, high quality synthetic SN (now SP) motor oil, meeting the HTHS requirement suffice at this interval; or more for that matter? Ford and Honda (turbo heavy manufacturers) are doing fine without ACEA, why wouldn't the Euros do just as well?

Another example is my Santa Fe Sport 2.0T. Has simply use a good synthetic and 215K miles later...still going strong.

Last edited by wemay; 06/23/20 12:54 PM.

19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: wemay] #5460734 06/23/20 12:58 PM
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Well for one thing the European approval contains more than just an HTHS requirement, it also contains other requirements such as oxidation resistance, shear stability and viscosity retention. Unless the oil is tested against the entirety of the specific approval then how would you know if it is entirely suitable as a replacement?

Approvals matter, right? Not just grade. All of that plays into the long-life component of the approval. Go look at the Afton Specification Handbook for a typical European approval and see what the oil has to prove it is capable of doing.


1994 BMW 530i, 253K
1996 Honda Accord, 289K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 437K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 290K
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: kschachn] #5460736 06/23/20 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Well for one thing the European approval contains more than just an HTHS requirement, it also contains other requirements such as oxidation resistance, shear stability and viscosity retention. Unless the oil is tested against the entirety of the specific approval then how would you know if it is entirely suitable as a replacement?

Approvals matter, right? Not just grade. All of that plays into the long-life component of the approval.


Are those things as important if you're changing to a 5K mile oci versus 10K, which is why i put emphasis on that portion of the original post. Plus, there are SN oils that go 10K miles all the time too. No?

Devil's advocate whistle


19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: wemay] #5460742 06/23/20 01:07 PM
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No those are valid points, you don't have to be the devil wink Your comment about a shorter OCI is relevant and I missed that in your post.

Maybe you would take an oil with only an SN license to 10,000 miles in your Audi or VW, but I wouldn't,


1994 BMW 530i, 253K
1996 Honda Accord, 289K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 437K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 290K
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: wemay] #5460743 06/23/20 01:08 PM
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You are not thinking European. You have to establish a separate standard to prevent the importation of cheaper products.


2014 Passat Wolfsburg, 1995 Miata.
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: redbone3] #5460744 06/23/20 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by redbone3
You are not thinking European. You have to establish a separate standard to prevent the importation of cheaper products.

Really? So you are advocating the position that an oil with only API SN is equivalent to one with Porsche A40 approval and could be substituted?


1994 BMW 530i, 253K
1996 Honda Accord, 289K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 437K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 290K
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: kschachn] #5460746 06/23/20 01:10 PM
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wemay Online Happy OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
No those are valid points, you don't have to be the devil wink Your comment about a shorter OCI is relevant and I missed that in your post.

Maybe you would take an oil with only an SN license to 10,000 miles in your Audi or VW, but I wouldn't,


Not planning to either. cheers
My Santa Fe 2.0T has gone over 200K miles on walmart synthetics, 4-5K mile oci and zero issues.

Last edited by wemay; 06/23/20 01:17 PM.

19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: redbone3] #5460751 06/23/20 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by redbone3
You are not thinking European. You have to establish a separate standard to prevent the importation of cheaper products.


Interesting point. Never thought of that.


19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: wemay] #5460765 06/23/20 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wemay
Leaving warranty discussion out of it and strictly from a technical point of view...

For example,
Some newer Porsche, Audi, VW and BMW recommend SAE 0W-20 or 0W-30 with an HTHS of 2.6 - 3.1. I've read on various boards that (some) owners are uncomfortable with the recommendation and will shorten the OCI to 5K miles versus the 10k.

Why wouldn't an easily attainable, locally sourced, high quality synthetic SN (now SP) motor oil, meeting the HTHS requirement suffice at this interval; or more for that matter? Ford and Honda (turbo heavy manufacturers) are doing fine without ACEA, why wouldn't the Euros do just as well?

Another example is my Santa Fe Sport 2.0T. Has simply use a good synthetic and 215K miles later...still going strong.


Ford, Fiat/Chrysler, are members of the ACEA and they have their own ACEA based specifications so I'm not sure what you're talking about. GM has it's own specification. Honda and Toyota are members of the ACEA and I would think they have a particular specification for EU market.

Basically just about every motor oil out there has some sort of ACEA rating. Unless it's specifically marketed for hybrids. 5k OCI obviously matters but the majority of automakers have moved to long drain intervals so again, I'm not following you.


Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 06/23/20 01:30 PM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: wemay] #5460768 06/23/20 01:35 PM
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Yes, with the longer intervals of for example up to 20,000 miles in lots of vehicles needing "longlife" oils anyway (and among those some times more engine-specific ones) there's much more focus on manufacturers' approvals than on ACEA over here.

Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5460775 06/23/20 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by wemay
Leaving warranty discussion out of it and strictly from a technical point of view...

For example,
Some newer Porsche, Audi, VW and BMW recommend SAE 0W-20 or 0W-30 with an HTHS of 2.6 - 3.1. I've read on various boards that (some) owners are uncomfortable with the recommendation and will shorten the OCI to 5K miles versus the 10k.

Why wouldn't an easily attainable, locally sourced, high quality synthetic SN (now SP) motor oil, meeting the HTHS requirement suffice at this interval; or more for that matter? Ford and Honda (turbo heavy manufacturers) are doing fine without ACEA, why wouldn't the Euros do just as well?

Another example is my Santa Fe Sport 2.0T. Has simply use a good synthetic and 215K miles later...still going strong.


Ford, Fiat/Chrysler, are members of the ACEA and they have their own ACEA based specifications so I'm not sure what you're talking about. GM has it's own specification. Honda and Toyota are members of the ACEA and I would think they have a particular specification for EU market.

Basically just about every motor oil out there has some sort of ACEA rating. Unless it's specifically marketed for hybrids. 5k OCI obviously matters but the majority of automakers have moved to long drain intervals so again, I'm not following you.




I'm not talking about Ford or Honda sold in Europe...

I know there's a Long Life component to the ACEA OEM approved oils, again this concerns switching to a 5K-7.5K OCI.

Last edited by wemay; 06/23/20 01:58 PM.

19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: wemay] #5460792 06/23/20 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by wemay
Leaving warranty discussion out of it and strictly from a technical point of view...

For example,
Some newer Porsche, Audi, VW and BMW recommend SAE 0W-20 or 0W-30 with an HTHS of 2.6 - 3.1. I've read on various boards that (some) owners are uncomfortable with the recommendation and will shorten the OCI to 5K miles versus the 10k.

Why wouldn't an easily attainable, locally sourced, high quality synthetic SN (now SP) motor oil, meeting the HTHS requirement suffice at this interval; or more for that matter? Ford and Honda (turbo heavy manufacturers) are doing fine without ACEA, why wouldn't the Euros do just as well?

Another example is my Santa Fe Sport 2.0T. Has simply use a good synthetic and 215K miles later...still going strong.


Ford, Fiat/Chrysler, are members of the ACEA and they have their own ACEA based specifications so I'm not sure what you're talking about. GM has it's own specification. Honda and Toyota are members of the ACEA and I would think they have a particular specification for EU market.

Basically just about every motor oil out there has some sort of ACEA rating. Unless it's specifically marketed for hybrids. 5k OCI obviously matters but the majority of automakers have moved to long drain intervals so again, I'm not following you.




I'm not talking about Ford or Honda sold in Europe...

I know there's a Long Life component to the ACEA OEM approved oils, again this concerns switching to a 5K-7.5K OCI.


Almost every oil sold on the market is LL. Outside of Hyundai who's suggesting a 5k mile factory oci? Mazda?


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5460802 06/23/20 02:12 PM
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At least in 2012, Mazda suggested 7500 miles / 12000 km or 6 months.

I think 2019's went to a 10k mile / 16k km OCI...

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


Almost every oil sold on the market is LL. Outside of Hyundai who's suggesting a 5k mile factory oci? Mazda?


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Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: javacontour] #5460808 06/23/20 02:17 PM
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Subaru has a 6K OCI I believe.

Re: Why can't non-ACEA oils be used in European autos? [Re: Fotoflame] #5460828 06/23/20 02:32 PM
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Yes, Subaru has 6K or 6 months OCI


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
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2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
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