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Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil #5460689 06/23/20 11:52 AM
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SchumiGr Offline OP
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Hello from Switzerland ! It is great to see a forum entirely dedicated to oils. I have been reading some of the topics here but I couldn‘t find the answer I was looking for, so here is where I need your expertise: I own a Ford Fiesta ST150 (2007 model) and the proper oil specification according to owner‘s manual is the Ford WSS M2C913C on 5W30. Since I am a great fan of Amsoil products, I looked their 5W30 product range and I found they cover a slightly different spec than the one I am looking for, the Ford WSS M2C946-B1. Does any of the Ford (or also non-Ford grin) owners know whether the 946-B1 spec supersedes the 913C.

This is the oil I am looking at: https://www.amsoil.com/p/signature-series-5w-30-synthetic-motor-oil-asl/

Thanks for your help !

Last edited by SchumiGr; 06/23/20 11:53 AM.
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5460696 06/23/20 12:06 PM
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Polyalphaolefin Offline
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913C is lowHTHS fullSAPS (ACEA A5B5) oil. You can use ACEA C2, or C3 instead also. Even A3B4.


Car: KIA Ceed JD 1.4 MPI
OIL: 5w30 ACEA A5 / A3; 5w40 ACEA A3; 0w40 ACEA A3
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: Polyalphaolefin] #5460709 06/23/20 12:26 PM
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SchumiGr Offline OP
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I am not sure I understand your answer - sorry my knowledge is a bit basic on that. If A5/B5 is the highest standard, why would I go with A3/B4 for example or C2 ?

Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5460737 06/23/20 01:04 PM
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kschachn Offline
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A5/B5 is not "the highest standard". It doesn't work like that, they mean different things.

https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf



1994 BMW 530i, 253K
1996 Honda Accord, 289K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 437K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 290K
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: kschachn] #5460753 06/23/20 01:16 PM
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SchumiGr Offline OP
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Aha, I see. Thank you for sharing this!

How could I find out whether an oil with the approval of M2C946-B1 spec covers the 913C as well ? Because if it doesn‘t, then probably this Amsoil is not the best option for my engine and I should start looking in other companies (e.g. Castrol).

Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5460815 06/23/20 02:23 PM
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ka9mnx Offline
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I don't think the Amsoil oil you are looking at has any approvals or license. They usually list "recommend for". Having said that, it doesn't make it a bad oil.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5460911 06/23/20 03:49 PM
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SchumiGr Offline OP
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I see. Would you recommend something else ? Your post does not read very enthusiastic about the Amsoil, so I would be curious to know your perspective

Thanks for the info

Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5460927 06/23/20 04:17 PM
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kschachn Offline
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What do you have in Zurich that’s locally available at a reasonable price? It’s a bit pointless to make recommendations on what’s available here.


1994 BMW 530i, 253K
1996 Honda Accord, 289K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 437K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 290K
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5460932 06/23/20 04:23 PM
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ka9mnx Offline
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If you are referring to me, Amsoil is not a bad product. I think it is overpriced and over merchandised. For you application I would look for a certified ACEA A5/B5 oil in 5w-30. If you feel your vehicle is getting a little worn then an ACEA A3/B4. The Ford specs are pretty mediocre and follow API specs. Even an API SN oil would be fine.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5461136 06/23/20 10:28 PM
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nlife Offline
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There's a lot of folks that aren't fond of Amsoil. From what I've seen here it's not that Amsoil is a bad product, just that the marketing isn't appreciated and it's an expensive oil for what you get.

Frankly, we have a whole slurry of oils that meet or exceed the factory recommended specs for our vehicles that we can get for much cheaper than Amsoil. Especially when on sale, or with a mail in rebate.

I'd also add that because the oil industry is so heavily regulated and that oils have to meet a number of certifications there's not a lot that separates one brand from the other these days. It really comes down to the small details in the add packs. None of which will ruin your engine.

Long story short, there's LOTS of people here that run the cheapest oil they can find as long as it meet's their vehicles specifications.

Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5461214 06/24/20 04:56 AM
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Polyalphaolefin Offline
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almost every 913C/D corresnpods to API SL, very few are API SN.

So, ACEA A5/B5 (ford 913) is pretty much "nothing special at all", so any other spec is superior I would guess. C3 vw504/507 especialy for that matter.

I use RAVENOL VMP 5w30 (PAO based C3 oil) in my kia gasoline (recomended crappy A5 oil)

Last edited by Polyalphaolefin; 06/24/20 04:57 AM.

Car: KIA Ceed JD 1.4 MPI
OIL: 5w30 ACEA A5 / A3; 5w40 ACEA A3; 0w40 ACEA A3
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5461935 06/25/20 12:03 AM
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Impatient Offline
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Americans are used to compromised products. For fuel economy, the USA specs MIGHT be superior, but for protection, I THINK (not a pro) the A3/B4 is about as good as it gets, unless you venture into diesel oils (Cx) which is not a bad strategy. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the HTHS spec is representative of the protective value of the oil...and A3/B4 at 3.5 HTHS is pretty decent. USA specs (often under 3.0 ) don't maximize protection (all this said, one oil that meets or beats a5/b5 might be better than an one oil that meet A3/B4...but the specs wont absolutely guide you to that oil). Amsoil signature is pretty decent, whether their gas version (e.g. ASL) or their new diesel/gas Signature product. (DHD)..which I am trying to research.

All this said, I don't know how stressy your Fiesta motor is, but in general, A5/B5 is decent for a fuel economy-oriented oil but A3/B4 is biased more toward protection. However, there MIGHT be an A5/B5 oil that is superior for your circumstance. Maybe. Amsoil Signature is good stuff, perhaps not the very very very best. XL is decent. OEM is OK. The very best Walmart-available oils are probably somewhere in the Amsoil OEM / XL range. You decide if $5-$10 more per oil change is worth it. Likewise, $35 per oil change difference (for signature) does beg the "value" question. The OTHER spec is Sx. SN+ is pretty decent, whereas SM or even SN is not that rigorous an ILSAC (USA) spec.

I would be shocked if a A3 B4 oil damaged your engine. I would not be shocked if an A3/B4 oil resulted in 0.001mpg (or KPM) worse gas mileage.

disclaimer: I dont know if your Euro spec vehicle needs a Low SAPS rating, which A5/B5 nor A3/B4 doesn't guarantee. Amsoil makes Euro-oriented oils, in Low SAPS and mod-SAPS versions. So do many manufacturers.


15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5461950 06/25/20 01:21 AM
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https://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php

https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

Ford specs are nothing special...

I would find/use any VW/MB/BMW specd oil...

VW 504/507 if you are concerned about your GPF (mid saps C3....HTHS 3.5+ 0w30 5w30)

Or MB 229.5 if you are revving that little turbo car alot (full saps A3/B4.....HTHS 3.5+ 5w40 0w40)


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Tech9 (Shell?) 5W30 C3 VW 504/507
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10W-40
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: SchumiGr] #5462085 06/25/20 07:47 AM
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buster Offline
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Quote
There's a lot of folks that aren't fond of Amsoil. From what I've seen here it's not that Amsoil is a bad product, just that the marketing isn't appreciated and it's an expensive oil for what you get.


I've been one of them, but they've improved IMO. Never was a bad product. I'd rather them get rid of the dealers and just go direct. They could put that money back into the product.


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Ford WSS M2C913C and Amsoil [Re: kschachn] #5462993 06/26/20 04:51 AM
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SchumiGr Offline OP
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Thank you very much for your insights, they are most helpful. It is really surprising and an eye opener to read your comments on Amsoil. I had the impression (and many others here in Europe) that Amsoil is one of the best oil manufacturers in terms of protection in demanding environments (e.g. trackdays) but from your posts I read that they are okay but not the absolute best. Commenting your responses:


Originally Posted by Kamele0N
https://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php

https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

Ford specs are nothing special...

I would find/use any VW/MB/BMW specd oil...

VW 504/507 if you are concerned about your GPF (mid saps C3....HTHS 3.5+ 0w30 5w30)

Or MB 229.5 if you are revving that little turbo car alot (full saps A3/B4.....HTHS 3.5+ 5w40 0w40)

I take that the specs you are quoting (VW and MB) are higher/stricter than the ones at Ford. I hear your proposal - I am a bit hesitant though choosing oil other than the manufacturer‘s specs. I am revving my naturally aspirated (not turbo) car a lot but I would prefer staying at 5w30 as Ford suggests. I read that A3/B4 is a bit thicker (and stronger of course) so if I go up in the viscosity scale (e.g. 5w40) and go to A3/B4, I would guess that the engine will not be performing as well as it should. Also if I am not mistaken, the owners manual suggests to choose oils either A3/B3 or A5/B5, so I am not so sure if A3/B4 is appropriate for my engine.


Originally Posted by Impatient
Americans are used to compromised products. For fuel economy, the USA specs MIGHT be superior, but for protection, I THINK (not a pro) the A3/B4 is about as good as it gets, unless you venture into diesel oils (Cx) which is not a bad strategy. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the HTHS spec is representative of the protective value of the oil...and A3/B4 at 3.5 HTHS is pretty decent. USA specs (often under 3.0 ) don't maximize protection (all this said, one oil that meets or beats a5/b5 might be better than an one oil that meet A3/B4...but the specs wont absolutely guide you to that oil). Amsoil signature is pretty decent, whether their gas version (e.g. ASL) or their new diesel/gas Signature product. (DHD)..which I am trying to research.

All this said, I don't know how stressy your Fiesta motor is, but in general, A5/B5 is decent for a fuel economy-oriented oil but A3/B4 is biased more toward protection. However, there MIGHT be an A5/B5 oil that is superior for your circumstance. Maybe. Amsoil Signature is good stuff, perhaps not the very very very best. XL is decent. OEM is OK. The very best Walmart-available oils are probably somewhere in the Amsoil OEM / XL range. You decide if $5-$10 more per oil change is worth it. Likewise, $35 per oil change difference (for signature) does beg the "value" question. The OTHER spec is Sx. SN+ is pretty decent, whereas SM or even SN is not that rigorous an ILSAC (USA) spec.

I would be shocked if a A3 B4 oil damaged your engine. I would not be shocked if an A3/B4 oil resulted in 0.001mpg (or KPM) worse gas mileage.

disclaimer: I dont know if your Euro spec vehicle needs a Low SAPS rating, which A5/B5 nor A3/B4 doesn't guarantee. Amsoil makes Euro-oriented oils, in Low SAPS and mod-SAPS versions. So do many manufacturers.

As far as I understand, the higher the HTHS the better. As wrote above, I am not sure if A3/B4 is appropriate for my engine. It is a bit of a shock when you say that the best Walmart available oils are probably on the level of Amsoils. Since you are saying that Amsoil Signature is not the very very best (which is the one I was planning on buying), which brands would you recommend as such? What about Castrol, Mobil or Motul for example ?


Originally Posted by kschachn
What do you have in Zurich that’s locally available at a reasonable price? It’s a bit pointless to make recommendations on what’s available here.

There is nothing in Zurich that is reasonably priced lol. Jokes aside, I can order anything imported to Europe, such as Motul, Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Aral, Petronas, Total, Liqui Moly etc.

When it gets choosing an oil, I tend to look its viscosity numbers at 40 and 100 degrees Celsius as well as it is flash and pour points. To be honest, I never looked at any specifications such as API, ILSAC etc. I was under the impression that the mentioned characteristics can give a good overview of the protection abilities of an oil, is this wrong ?


I really appreciate all the knowledge and insights given, thank you very much !


Last edited by SchumiGr; 06/26/20 04:54 AM.
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