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Oil questions, old Mercedes engine #5458871 06/21/20 12:28 AM
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vivaUkraine Offline OP
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*1993 Mercedes 400E, 127,xxx miles. 4.2L, V8 (M119). Owned for 6 years, plan to keep indefinitely. Daily driver, currently 12k/yr. No oil leaks. OCI 5-7,5k mi. Been using various synthetics over the last 28,000 miles, since I acquired her. I drive in a very brisk, but (mostly) mature manner. Hot and humid summers.


*Original manual calls just for whatever API was current in 93 and 10w40, 15w40, 5w50, 20w50 for all temps. There's a 5w30 in there for up to 30C ambient, if it has a precursor to A3/B3 spec. So I'm aware that, technically, using today's lowly 10w40 dyno SN will exceed factory requirements. I'm also aware of the Walmart Mobil/Castrol 0W40 thesis.


With the above out of the way, I'm curious:

1. Is 229.5 oil there most optimal choice for an engine developed in the 2nd half of the 80s? Any merit seeking out 229.1 or 229.3 oils?

2. Castrol has a 0w30 with a 229.5 certification, which means it has same HTHS as 0w40 and 5w40 229.5 oils. Would this not be the most optimal choice, given same protection as heavier grades, but with some, however minuscule gains in fuel economy and power? 0w30 is not in the original manual, neither is 5w40 and 0w40, but it's been 27 years since...

3. Is there any merit in using synthetic high mileage 10w40 oils that don't have any manufactures certifications instead of 229.1/3/5 oils. Again, there aren't any oil leaks.


Thanks!

Last edited by vivaUkraine; 06/21/20 12:31 AM.
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5458873 06/21/20 12:40 AM
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Silk Offline
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10W-40 A3/B4.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite VTwin 20-50
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-30 Castrol Edge
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5458880 06/21/20 01:10 AM
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userfriendly Offline
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API CG-4 was rolled out in 1994. Back then 15W had to pass CCS at -15C and cold viscosity @ -20C. Now 15W is tested where 10W used to be. At -20 & -25.
If a modern CK-4/SN oil was available in 1993, weather permitting it would have been revolutionary. Especially given that the cost has remained the same over the years.

When I joined this group, I had a 1 year old MB C240. I got tired of paying $13 a liter for M-1 0w40 and used 15w40 instead at a quarter of the cost.
The next summer I tried SAE50, just to prove to the thinnies here, that it wouldn't cause the sky to fall or kill off the whales.

If I had to pick one oil for all seasons, and cost was no object, I would use the same oil I'm putting in 2 Duramax engines this fall.

Chevron's Delo 400 5W40 CK-4 with an HTHS of 4.2

Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5458885 06/21/20 01:39 AM
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If the engine isn't burning oil, I'd stick with any 10w40 syn blend with the best API possible, even better if you find one with MB approval. I think anything above that is a overkill.

Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5458916 06/21/20 05:13 AM
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Ignatius Offline
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I like to used Mobil 1 0w40 in my 2005 Mercedes engine because it meets 229.5, is relatively inexpensive, and can usually had with a rebate or some other promotion.

Valvoline makes some very nice oils carrying most high level approvals like 0w40 and Euro 5w30 and Euro 5w40.


2018 Subaru Outback Limited - 100,000 miles
2018 Subaru Outback Premium - 38,000 miles
2012 Hyundai Accent GLS - 105,000 miles
2005 Dodge Sprinter 3500 - 168,000 miles
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: Silk] #5458949 06/21/20 07:03 AM
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ka9mnx Offline
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Originally Posted by Silk
10W-40 A3/B4.

This or 0w-40 A3/B4


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5458951 06/21/20 07:07 AM
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Astro14 Offline
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I owned a similar vintage 300E for many years. The W124 body is one of Mercedes best built cars, ever.

My preference is for an MB 229.5 spec oil. Several inexpensive options exist: Castrol 0W40 ($22/jug on Amazon) MOBIL 1 0W40 ($25/jug at Walmart).

I also used Rotella T6 5W40. Similarly priced to the above, and while it doesn’t have the MB 229.5 spec, it’s a very good oil.

When I did the head gasket on that car (a regular 100,000 mile service on the M103 engine) it was spotless. Absolutely spotless. Here it is on the bench.

So, when the 229.5 spec oils are as cheap as anything on the market, I can’t see a good reason for using anything else.

[Linked Image]


32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5458988 06/21/20 08:21 AM
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BAJA_05 Offline
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PP Euro 0W40/Mobil 1 0W40/Castrol 0W40 -- which ever is cheapest and lose zero sleep!!!


2017 VW Jetta SE TSI 1.4L Turbo (hers)
PP Euro 0W40 & FU (48K)
2008 Acura TL 3.2L PPHM 0W20 & FU (117K)
2005 Subaru Baja AWD 2.5L N/A 5spd.
T6 MV 5W30 & FU (103K)
2000 Ram 4X4 5.2L (93K) T6 MV 5W30 & FU
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5459081 06/21/20 09:47 AM
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Gene K Offline
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Just my opinion but you could do a lot worse than Rotella 15W-40 Summer and Rotella T6 5W-40 Winter.


Gene

2014 Mustang GT 5.0 SC - 675 bhp
ST Synthetic 10W30 / FL500S

2018 F150 4x4 3.5 EB
OEM Oil & Filter

2018 Lincoln MKX 3.7
OEM Oil & Filter
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5459118 06/21/20 10:37 AM
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Jackson_Slugger Offline
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M1 10W-40 HM in summer/warmer months, any 0W-40 in winter...

Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: Jackson_Slugger] #5459122 06/21/20 10:45 AM
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ka9mnx Offline
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Which I believe is A3/B3. Perfectly fine.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: Astro14] #5459152 06/21/20 11:42 AM
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vivaUkraine Offline OP
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Thanks. So there isn't any merit seeking out a 229.3 (or 229.1) oil over 229.5, in your opinion?

Are 229.5 oils in different viscosities same and interchangeable in my application, irrespective of climate? Like Castrol 0w30 and Mobil 0w40 and, say, Liqui Moly 5w40? My thinking - I could easily be wrong - is that if 229.5 oils are indeed interchangeable and offer same protection, a 0w30 grade offers the same protection as 0w40 and 5w40, but might offer a slightly better fuel economy and power, no?

My current fill is Mobil 5w50 fs x2, which has 229.1 and 229.3 certifications and, as far as I can tell, is the only modern oil in US to do so.

Thanks

Last edited by vivaUkraine; 06/21/20 11:43 AM.
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: Silk] #5459191 06/21/20 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Silk
10W-40 A3/B4.


Yes.

If you aren't emotionally married to the car, I'd run the cheapest 15W-40 HDEO that any tractor supply business sells for cheap.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: Astro14] #5459194 06/21/20 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Astro14
When I did the head gasket on that car (a regular 100,000 mile service on the M103 engine)


How bizarre is that...... I never pull the head unless there's a good reason to.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Oil questions, old Mercedes engine [Re: vivaUkraine] #5459228 06/21/20 01:46 PM
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vivaUkraine Offline OP
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Many of you answered with specific brand recommendation. My questions were regarding Mercedes certifications and a merit (or lack of) in seeking older certification for my old engine AND a merit in using 229.5 0w30 vs 229.5 0/5w40 oils in all climates. It's not clear to me if different viscosities of 229.5 oils are identical and interchangeable, irrespective of the climate....

Last edited by vivaUkraine; 06/21/20 01:47 PM.
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