OEMs That Use Break-in Oil?

CarbonSteel

CarbonSteel

Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
9,807
Every now and again, someone will post they have purchased a new vehicle and will ask for a suggested OCI for the first OC. Often times, someone will state to leave the oil in for "x" miles because it is break-in oil from the factory.

This begs the question of what OEM uses break-in oil as the factory fill? Aside from the assembly lube that some OEMs use that has extra moly or the like in it, I am of the opinion that most OEMs use the same oil that you or I could buy off the shelf as the factory fill.

What say you? Am I right or wrong?
 
Honda and Mazda use a high moly oil. People say it is in the assembly lube, but with Mazda clearly at one point had the high moly oil stated right on the bottle. It makes sense to run a 500-600ppm oil fot it's first oil.
 
I think you are right that it's the same oil as one could purchase off the shelf. And that the oil is obviously purchased in large bulk quantities as well.
 
On the transmission side, the Dexron used in the GM plants was identical to what was sold over the counter from the same supplier (Petro Canada back when I was working).
Allison added a biocide because there were periodic issues with fungus growth in heavy vehicle transmissions that were in storage for a long period before installation and running in a vehicle.
 
I know Mazda still fills their new engines with high moly oil. Honda used to but I haven't any evidence as of late.

They don't call it break in oil either. It's just called factory fill. Maybe a minor point.
 
Originally Posted by Mainia
Honda and Mazda use a high moly oil. People say it is in the assembly lube, but with Mazda clearly at one point had the high moly oil stated right on the bottle. It makes sense to run a 500-600ppm oil fot it's first oil.


Or Idemitsu Zepro oil. VOA..
 
Does it really matter whether it's the oil or assembly lube?

The real question is how long is it needed?

If I remember right GM Crate Engines used to call for a 50 mi drain (add GM Liquid Assembly Lube during refill) and then 500 mi. After that just straight 10W-30.
 
None that I am aware of today, true break in oils were low spec short run oils high in zddp primarily for camshaft/lifter break in which it did very well. The last thing you want in a new engine is something like MoS2 (not to be confused with tri nuclear moly), the rings and other parts need some initial wear to bed in properly.
 
Originally Posted by Gene K
Does it really matter whether it's the oil or assembly lube?

From the aspect of people posting not to change the oil early because it is special or break-in oil, yes, because it is not used today. I would posit there is also limited use of assembly lube in modern engines too since application of it has to be done manually or with very special equipment. Likely just as easy to spray engine oil on the parts as they are assembled.

Just my thoughts and I could be wrong...
 
The Subaru Idemitsu factory fill has higher moly and ZDDP than the dealer service fill. Odd thing is that sometimes Subaru factory fills show high ZDDP and sometimes they do not.
 
Originally Posted by bluesubie
The Subaru Idemitsu factory fill has higher moly and ZDDP than the dealer service fill. Odd thing is that sometimes Subaru factory fills show high ZDDP and sometimes they do not.


Can you provide a source for that information?

When I bought my Outback, I specifically inquired to Subaru on this subject, wanting to know how long I should wait to change the factory fill motor oil. Subaru replied that as the factory fill was standard synthetic 0W-20 motor oil, there was no need for any particular oil change interval for the factory fill. They further stated that if I wanted, I could change the oil early but there was no reason to change it before the recommended oci.

Further research told me that almost none of the manufacturers fill their engines with "break-in" oil any longer, as it really was not necessary with modern engines and today's engine assembly practices. So I'm pretty skeptical when I see claims that any OEM still puts "break-in" oil in an engine.
 
From what Ive read Honda does not use break in oil, its the moly based assembly lube is what makes the FF different.

Source was the Moderator of the Ridgeline owners club site.

They say to keep the FF fill in for a normal OCI

UD
 
Last edited:
Who is qualified to answer this question with any semblance of accuracy ? Unless someone is directly involved at the factory level, it's just hearsay....
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Who is qualified to answer this question with any semblance of accuracy ? Unless someone is directly involved at the factory level, it's just hearsay....


Occasionally factory reps participate on brand specific websites.

UD
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Who is qualified to answer this question with any semblance of accuracy ? Unless someone is directly involved at the factory level, it's just hearsay....


My cousin is an powertrain engineer (specifically their performance engine line) for for a large manufacturer and has been for a very long time, while that may not be good enough for you information I get from him from some of our long conversations has been very educational for me.
 
The UOA forum shocked me with a display from a first change of a 2018 Pacifica.
The moly was sky high, manganese (scuffing agent) was a noted additive, and the ZDDP levels ( if I typed that acronym correctly) were also very high. Indicative of a deliberate factory attempt to construct a limited break-in oil.
Fiat-Chrysler surprised me!
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Who is qualified to answer this question with any semblance of accuracy ? Unless someone is directly involved at the factory level, it's just hearsay....

Since you seem the most concerned, contact the Honda engine factory. A website or phone number / email, should be listed.
 
Originally Posted by BHopkins
Originally Posted by bluesubie
The Subaru Idemitsu factory fill has higher moly and ZDDP than the dealer service fill. Odd thing is that sometimes Subaru factory fills show high ZDDP and sometimes they do not.


Can you provide a source for that information?

When I bought my Outback, I specifically inquired to Subaru on this subject, wanting to know how long I should wait to change the factory fill motor oil. Subaru replied that as the factory fill was standard synthetic 0W-20 motor oil, there was no need for any particular oil change interval for the factory fill. They further stated that if I wanted, I could change the oil early but there was no reason to change it before the recommended oci.

Further research told me that almost none of the manufacturers fill their engines with "break-in" oil any longer, as it really was not necessary with modern engines and today's engine assembly practices. So I'm pretty skeptical when I see claims that any OEM still puts "break-in" oil in an engine.


At the very least just do a google search and look for uoa's on the factory fill. Here's one of the first that popped up for me (on an STI):

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4517965/New_18_STI_Factory_fill_UOA_1,

And an H6 Outback:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...utback-3-6-5w-30-factory-fill-3310-miles

Lots more are out there. Looking through NASIOC WRX FA20DIT uoa's you can find FF uoa's with both high and low ZDDP. Perhaps they were trying different formulas, I don't know.

And while this info is dated, this is an excerpt from an email from ILAC sent to another member here that was inquiring about the older API SM Subaru oil because it had high moly (surprised he hasn't commented yet):

Quote
You ask some very good questions which I will answer in "generalities". First, just so you know where the information is coming from, Idemitsu supplies most of the OEM's for both Factory fill and service fill. ...

OEMs specify Moly in their factory fill formulations to increase fuel economy during the initial period. In general a factory fill formula will be more robust in the additive treatments etc. This is done for a variety of reasons which I will not go in to here.

Some of the service fill formulations also contained molybdenum however, with the transition to the ILSAC GF-5 specification, most 0W-20 service fill 0W-20 formulations now do not have Moly. That being said, you are always safest following the OEMs recommendations. All service fill OE formulas that we supply have been submitted to a full battery of tests at that respective OEM's R&D facilities in Japan and have been approved.


The only way I'll believe otherwise is if every FF uoa posted shows lower ZDDP or if there is a tech document posted about it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Who is qualified to answer this question with any semblance of accuracy ? Unless someone is directly involved at the factory level, it's just hearsay....

Since you seem the most concerned, contact the Honda engine factory. A website or phone number / email, should be listed.

Who said anything about Honda ? Why do you presume I'm "concerned" ? My point is, far too many people simply repeat what they've heard and then state it as fact. Or, someone's brother's cousin's uncle's next door neighbor heard from someone that worked at an auto plant 23 years ago....

I mean, if you want gossip, the internet is a great place to find it ! Me, I prefer facts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Classic vs Modern Engine Break-In
Replies
9
Views
438
vpr5703
W
Do we know of any OEMs using a specific break-in oil?
2
Replies
25
Views
3K
JohnnyO
Sweebation
What oil to use in 2005 6spd corvette
Replies
17
Views
544
twX
Sweebation
Break in oil for 2005 LS2
Replies
15
Views
560
nascarnation
C
Does engine oil need to break-in after an OCI?
Replies
18
Views
970
Urshurak776
Back
Top