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Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts #5454446 06/15/20 01:21 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline OP
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Out of curiosity, I did an on-line chat with Fram just now to see what they said are the differences between the Fram TG and XG vs the AAP Force and Titanium.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Me: Hello, I have a few questions about the new Force and Titanium oil filters sold through Advanced Auto Parts stores.

Fram: I would be happy to assist you with this. What questions do you have?

Me: Looking at the build construction and the efficiency specs between the Fram TG and AAP Force, and the Fram XG and the AAP Titanium, they look basically the same. Do you know if the same exact filtering media is used between the two (Fram vs AAP)?

Fram: Tough Guard is a 15,000 mile oil change interval with synthetic oil. 98.5% efficient @ 20 microns.
Fram Force is an upgrade to Tough Guard. 15,000 mile oil change interval with synthetic oil. 99% efficient @ 20 microns. For more aggressive driving, towing, high performance applications. Has improved oil flow.
Ultra Synthetic: is a 20,000 mile oil change interval with synthetic oil. 99% efficient @ 20 microns, media has a reinforced media screen with media and filters out double the particles.
Fram Titanium: is a 20,000 mile oil change interval with synthetic oil. 99% efficient @ 20 microns, media has a reinforced media screen with media and filters out double the particles. Has improved oil flow due to tear drop design holes. the last main difference is that the Titanium has our new Perfect Seal gasket that provides superior durability as well as heat protection.

Me: Thanks, I knew about the inlet holes and base gasket changes on the Titanium. Since the efficiency rating and use mileage ratings are the same, is the actual media material the same between the Fram line and the AAP line? That's what I'm interested in knowing. Or is the AAP filters using a different media design, but happen to have the same efficiency rating?

Fram: The media is the same, the differences in the 2 are the improved oil flow in the force over the Tough Guard, and the titanium has improved oil flow and the new perfect seal gasket also over the Ultra synthetic.

Me: What gave the Force better oil flow over the TG if it wasn't the media itself. Is it because of more media area?

Fram: The proprietary design we used in this filter. Is there anything else that I can help you with today?

Me: Does Fram plan on using these improvements in their own line?

Fram: These filters were designed exclusively for Advanced auto parts.

Me: Thanks ... Yes, I figured that would be the case.

Fram: Is there anything else that I can help you with today?

Me: No, nothing else. Thanks for the help.

Fram: Thank you for using Fram filters. Have a great day!

Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454457 06/15/20 01:33 PM
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bullwinkle Offline
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Surprised they gave out that much information! The Ultra baseplate holes are big enough, unless the Titanium is trying to cause an enhanced flow pattern, I don’t see the value of $14.99 over an $8.99 (or less) Ultra.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7 (MC), 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2), 11 Express 3500 6.0 (Fram PH10060 for now)
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: bullwinkle] #5454459 06/15/20 01:38 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Surprised they gave out that much information! The Ultra baseplate holes are big enough, unless the Titanium is trying to cause an enhanced flow pattern, I don’t see the value of $14.99 over an $8.99 (or less) Ultra.


I highly doubt the shape of the inlet holes on the Titanium do anything to enhance flow patterns - how could they when the flow pattern is impeded and changed by the path it needs to take after entering the base plate. It's obvious that the bigger holes provide more flow area, which doesn't actually "increase flow" (PD oil pump), but just lowers the delta-p across the filter by a small amount. The majority of the delta-p produced across an oil filter is the media's flow resistance.

Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454479 06/15/20 02:06 PM
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Ignatius Offline
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Heck yes! I bought my second Fram Titanium today and could not be happier with the product or price paid. Titanium #1 was $5.74 and Titanium #2 was $7.86, gotta work the discount game at AAP smile


2018 Subaru Outback Limited - 100,000 miles
2012 Hyundai Accent GLS - 105,000 miles
2005 Dodge Sprinter 3500 - 168,000 miles
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: Ignatius] #5454490 06/15/20 02:24 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ignatius
Heck yes! I bought my second Fram Titanium today and could not be happier with the product or price paid. Titanium #1 was $5.74 and Titanium #2 was $7.86, gotta work the discount game at AAP smile


Sounds like a good deal there.

Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454507 06/15/20 02:40 PM
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TrainingPolicy Offline
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I've been looking for an oil filter that allows higher flow and good filtration for my Infiniti, and I didn't want to go with a K&N. So after reading this conversation, looks like the Fram Force will go on for the next oil change. Thanks for the chat & post!!


2003 Infiniti G35 6MT 105k
2005 Honda Accord 237k
2010 Hyundai Santa Fe 112k
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454569 06/15/20 04:38 PM
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LubricatusObsess Offline
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Kudos to ZeeOSix! Thank you!!

Seems like Fram is going for market share by flooding different outlets with different proprietary models? Agree that slightly less delta P from larger holes won't affect overall delta P in the oil path much, as the filtration media is the highest flow restriction element in the oil path. Also the U-turn oil route.

Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454588 06/15/20 04:58 PM
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blupupher Offline
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Just interesting that their published material differs from what the rep said (and what we have seen).
Metal screen back synthetic blend media for the Titanium on their site vs the Ultra being listed as a 2-ply synthetic, metal screen reinforced media.
Pics of media look different in their cutaway as well.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

From the C&P the media in between the Titanium and Ultra look the same, and are the same per the rep, so I guess that is what it is. shrug

Thanks for contacting them.

So for the most part, the Ultra is = to Titanium, and the Force may be a touch better than the ToughGuard (I think this is debatable though).


'18 Santa Fe: PP 10w-30/OEM
'18 Soul: Delo 400 10w-30/ST
'12 xB: M1 EP 0w-20/CQ Blue
'10 Santa Fe: Pento HP 5W-30/TG
'04 F150: Delo 400 10w-30/ST
'02 F150: PP 0w-20/M1
'94 GL1500: Honda 10w-40/OEM
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: blupupher] #5454598 06/15/20 05:05 PM
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4WD Offline
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Synthetic blend media ?

Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454606 06/15/20 05:14 PM
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bullwinkle Offline
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I've taken Ultras apart, and there is ZERO cellulose/blend media in them, can't help thinking this might be a mistake by Fram on the Titanium's media, why would they make a wire backed blend media?


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7 (MC), 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2), 11 Express 3500 6.0 (Fram PH10060 for now)
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454625 06/15/20 05:44 PM
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RamFan Offline
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Nice digging.

As others have stated, how exactly does the inlet shape affect oil flow?


18 Giulia Ti Sport Q4
  • 2.0T I4 - 27k - PP Euro LX 0w30 - PureOne - 10k/1yr

16.5 CX-5 Touring AWD
  • 2.5L I4 - 72k - Citgo Supergard Syn 5w30 - Wix - 7.5k/1yr
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: ZeeOSix] #5454637 06/15/20 05:53 PM
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PimTac Offline
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I’m getting the feeling that Fram is following Shell’s marketing ploy with all these filter models.

Should we expect the Fram Turbo? Fram Hybrid? Fram More Power?


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: PimTac] #5454640 06/15/20 05:55 PM
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bbhero Offline
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You know I have not seen the multiple wild Pennzoil oils yet in the stores I typically frequent.

I wonder if those " products" will ever be in AAP, AZ, OR or Napa ??


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Royal Purple 10w30+ Ceratec+ Carquest red 85358
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: bullwinkle] #5454694 06/15/20 07:31 PM
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Ignatius Offline
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Originally Posted by 4WD
Synthetic blend media ?

Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I've taken Ultras apart, and there is ZERO cellulose/blend media in them, can't help thinking this might be a mistake by Fram on the Titanium's media, why would they make a wire backed blend media?


Has anyone considered that "synthetic blend" refers to a blends of exclusively synthetic media with nothing otherwise? People hear blend and they think it must be cellulose, perhaps the Ultra has one form of synthetic media and the Titanium has more than one form of synthetic media?

It is obvious that the Force filter media was slightly modified as compared to the Tough Guard, perhaps the same might apply to the Ultra vs. Titanium?


2018 Subaru Outback Limited - 100,000 miles
2012 Hyundai Accent GLS - 105,000 miles
2005 Dodge Sprinter 3500 - 168,000 miles
Re: Fram vs Advanced Auto Parts [Re: bbhero] #5454700 06/15/20 07:34 PM
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Hall Offline
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Originally Posted by bbhero
I wonder if those " products" will ever be in AAP, AZ, OR or Napa ??

My nearest AAP has a Force and Titanium in stock right now for my car (and yours).

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