Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow
- Thread starter parshisa
- Start date
I've done multiple ATF drain / refills at 30K miles and never seen it that dark.
I wouldn't be concerned at the dark color.
I wouldn't be concerned at the dark color.
Does it smell burnt? Also how does it look if you blot it on a white paper towel?
Without a chemical analysis …
Without a chemical analysis …
Doesn't surprise me, I am a WS and DW1 hater. My wife's Rav4 at 22,000 miles looked black and burn't that it made me sick in my garage. I had to open the garage door in the mid of winter. I run Redline D6 with a cocktail of 1.5 qt of Redline Racing and 1.5 qt Redline Racing Low Viscosity to come close to matching the viscosity of D6 to get rid of some of the slip agents I don't like. I like nice fast and firm shifts and both the Honda's I have had and one Rav4 have RED ATF after many many miles because of it, not black ATF. I do only 100% switch outs of ATF now. No dump and fills. I want CLEAN ATF.
My daughters Honda in my signature has MaxLife with 2 qts of Redline Racing and 2 qts of Redline Racing Low Viscosity added to stop a slip issue it had with both DW1 and MaxLife. That fixed the slip issue now for 45,000 miles.
My daughters Honda in my signature has MaxLife with 2 qts of Redline Racing and 2 qts of Redline Racing Low Viscosity added to stop a slip issue it had with both DW1 and MaxLife. That fixed the slip issue now for 45,000 miles.
Do a 100% change over. I no longer do dump and fills. Get a trans cooler too.
I've found color to not be that great of an indicator with DW1 specifically as I've read, and seen with my own eyes, how it can act a little funny and turn dark quickly even without being used.
I've been using it in my Hondas since it came out with no trouble whatsoever, but I did read a few years back it has a propensity to darken very rapidly even when left in a container in the sun, yep I had to try it myself. I dumped a little bit of brand new bright red fluid into a clear cup similar to what you have and l left it out on the deck on a 85 degree sunny July day for about 8hrs and it went from bright cherry red to a darker maroon-ish purple just sitting there. It still looked better than what you're showing, but the best way to tell if it's trouble brewing or simply nothing to be concerned with is a UOA, YMMV of course and my "test" was far from anything scientific, but I found it a little interesting is all
I've been using it in my Hondas since it came out with no trouble whatsoever, but I did read a few years back it has a propensity to darken very rapidly even when left in a container in the sun, yep I had to try it myself. I dumped a little bit of brand new bright red fluid into a clear cup similar to what you have and l left it out on the deck on a 85 degree sunny July day for about 8hrs and it went from bright cherry red to a darker maroon-ish purple just sitting there. It still looked better than what you're showing, but the best way to tell if it's trouble brewing or simply nothing to be concerned with is a UOA, YMMV of course and my "test" was far from anything scientific, but I found it a little interesting is all
How quickly we forget (or miss) the discussions of certain Zn additives turning dark in short order. DW1 uses a lot more Zn than any other ATF I know of. Think it's that? I suspect it rather strongly, but perhaps an Oxidation Test on this and new DW1 would be instructive.
I do a spill and fill every year on my Accord and it always comes out red and smells sweet. Unless it smelled burnt I wouldn't be too concerned considering you just changed it 10K ago. Maybe that trans runs hotter than the 5 speed in my Accord?
That photo is normal amount of metal slime.
Originally Posted by Mainia
Do a 100% change over. I no longer do dump and fills. Get a trans cooler too.
I would agree--D&F makes sense when the fluid is still in good shape. When it's junk it's best to just replace as much as possible.
I am curious about the comment about zinc (?) or other additives changing color quickly--and that it doesn't matter. Or might not matter. It certainly did in the past for ATF! IMO that might actually be a GOOD feature for the ATF. Pull a cooler line and do a full flush, and you'll be able to easily tell when it's fully flushed with new fluid.
Anyhow, transmissions seem to last longer than ever, so maybe it's just a lark.
Do a 100% change over. I no longer do dump and fills. Get a trans cooler too.
I would agree--D&F makes sense when the fluid is still in good shape. When it's junk it's best to just replace as much as possible.
I am curious about the comment about zinc (?) or other additives changing color quickly--and that it doesn't matter. Or might not matter. It certainly did in the past for ATF! IMO that might actually be a GOOD feature for the ATF. Pull a cooler line and do a full flush, and you'll be able to easily tell when it's fully flushed with new fluid.
Anyhow, transmissions seem to last longer than ever, so maybe it's just a lark.
parisha, that does look bad. We've been on parallel paths with our Pilots I think. We have a 17 Pilot with 45k miles and a 17 Ridgeline with 44k miles, never had fluid that dark. And probably pretty similar conditions, we're in the New Orleans area.
The big difference may be the transmission coolers. The RL AWD came with one and I added one to the Pilot (also AWD) as soon as we got it. They both get a 3.5 qt drain/fill with DW-1 every 10k miles. I'll likely switch to either Maxlife or Castrol Syn ATF once past the powertrain warranty.
I am a big believer in the ATF coolers. We've had a few Honda with the V6 powertrain, and never had a transmission issue. The first was a 2001 Odyssey with the 4sp and never had a problem until we sold it at 210k miles. It got a transmission cooler from the start and 10k d/f (with Z-1).
Normally at steady state on the highway our ATF temps run about 160F. In heavy traffic in town it will get up around 190F. Don't know if you've monitored yours, but you are likely spending time over 200F in heavy Houston? traffic without a cooler.
I'd look at adding a cooler if you don't have one and stick with the 10k d/f with DW-1 until the warranty is up. Then I think there are very suitable cost effective alternatives to DW-1.
The big difference may be the transmission coolers. The RL AWD came with one and I added one to the Pilot (also AWD) as soon as we got it. They both get a 3.5 qt drain/fill with DW-1 every 10k miles. I'll likely switch to either Maxlife or Castrol Syn ATF once past the powertrain warranty.
I am a big believer in the ATF coolers. We've had a few Honda with the V6 powertrain, and never had a transmission issue. The first was a 2001 Odyssey with the 4sp and never had a problem until we sold it at 210k miles. It got a transmission cooler from the start and 10k d/f (with Z-1).
Normally at steady state on the highway our ATF temps run about 160F. In heavy traffic in town it will get up around 190F. Don't know if you've monitored yours, but you are likely spending time over 200F in heavy Houston? traffic without a cooler.
I'd look at adding a cooler if you don't have one and stick with the 10k d/f with DW-1 until the warranty is up. Then I think there are very suitable cost effective alternatives to DW-1.
Hold up. I was thinking the ‘16 Pilot used the Honda 6-speed, but it uses the ZF 9-speed, right? Maybe the fluid is _also_ too hot (which would accelerate discoloration even absent excessive oxidation). A ScanGauge (or other) will easily pull ATF temp for you if you're curious.
I _think_ that the ZF 9-speed is a pretty good match for D6, if that's what you want to do. Double-check with Red Line, though.
I _think_ that the ZF 9-speed is a pretty good match for D6, if that's what you want to do. Double-check with Red Line, though.
Originally Posted by parshisa
Couldn't resist and did another D&F with the last 3.5qts of DW1
It should now be good for another 10k miles!
As Jimzz suggested, it may be worth considering full synthetic ATF in the future. I wasn't happy with the short lifespan of DW1 and switched to Pennzoil Platinum LV in my Ody. I now do a single drain and fill every year (15k) and it never looks too bad even with frequent towing.
Couldn't resist and did another D&F with the last 3.5qts of DW1
It should now be good for another 10k miles!
As Jimzz suggested, it may be worth considering full synthetic ATF in the future. I wasn't happy with the short lifespan of DW1 and switched to Pennzoil Platinum LV in my Ody. I now do a single drain and fill every year (15k) and it never looks too bad even with frequent towing.
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